SURVEY: Do you believe the 2 Burmese found guilty of the Koh Tao Murders are guilty?

[Ks45672]

Until the statement by the Miller family, I would have naturally said no. That statement changed everything. If they can clearly and categorically say that after all they've been through and all the evidence they must have combed through and along with advice they must have received from the UK police, I have to say the same thing. GUILTY.

The so called "evidence" has been going through so many stages I don't think anyone in a normal court could do anything but discredit it and make a either let them go or make a retrial....

In the first reports I thought I read dna cleared them and they were released by the police.....

After a few weeks they decided the dna does match and arrested them again?

I don't know the exact facts but I hope these boys get a fair trial with a good lawyer..

If they did it hang em high..... As long as they guilty.....

[al007]

I live here in thailand and am very happy

However we have to respect those running the country and we are prohibited by their rules from publishing our true feelings, if they do not conform with the rulers views, and the consequences could be dire

That is Ok if we do not like or accept it we can leave

Guilty or not Guilty in any system with a jury system, it is almost certain the verdict would have been, NOT proved beyond reasonable doubt, and hence they would have been acquitted

Thailand like some other countries does not have a jury system

Edited December 27, 2015 by al007

[al007]

A further thought

The findings of the British police, who visited the scene of the crime, were never published

As a UK citizen I am allowed to criticse my own country, and I think the decision not to go public stinks, and wastes U K taxpayers money if the result is withheld

I have written to my MP

[NongKhaiKid]

Even if this was the ' concrete ' case as claimed by the BIB the govt and police have no one but themselves to blame for all the serious doubt given the way it was mishandled and misrepresented from Day One and I'll guarantee nothing has been learned.

[Crash999]

There should have been a third option for who the hell knows.

I used to think they were scape goats because of all the news reports. But after reading the court info suddenly there was the phone, the choosing not to DNA test, the changing story about what happened that night. Either the lawyers for the Burmese are completely awful or their story doesn't hold up. But of course the police can't be trusted either. So who knows.

[Crash999]

A further thought

The findings of the British police, who visited the scene of the crime, were never published

As a UK citizen I am allowed to criticse my own country, and I think the decision not to go public stinks, and wastes U K taxpayers money if the result is withheld

I have written to my MP

Someone posted before that the UK police can't hand over info when there is a court case pending that could result in the death penalty as it could mean that if the UK evidence was used to prove the murders then it could directly result in capital punishment.

[superal]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

The DNA would prove what? Rape? Certainly not murder.

Would it be likely that two rapists would knock a man out, drag him into the sea to drown; rape a young lady and then leave her alive to be a witness?

Not suggesting the DNA test was valid, the guilt or innocence of these two or the validity of the investigation. Simply questioning your logic that in the circumstances of this case the rapists might have simply walked away and left the victim alive.

What DNA ? Were the specimens retained and test results conclusively proven ? made available to the defence and / or independent lab ? I think not . I totally agree with you i.e. DNA is hard to dispute.But there is no tangible evidence available , only hearsay . However , if rape was proven , for me they would be guilty by association as they would have been at the scene of the crime . BTW was a statement released by the defence giving the B2 account of their movements on the night of the crime as I have not seen it .

[stephenterry]

Even if I had thought them guilty, on the 'evidence' provided by the RTP (that I have been permitted to read about), I would have to vote no.

[Incobart]

not guilty, cause nobody is so stupid to stay on the small island with the victims phone near your room, while 50 policemen are looking for you.

A murder case has mostly 2 important issues the motive and the weapon.

Where the weapon come from ? Is there a proof they used it ? What is there motive ???? rape ? normally a strong guy rape a girl that is somewhere alone... nobody go to do it when the boyfriend is there, certainly not murder for it first.

I hear the court based everything on the DNA (as all the rest was very doubt full) DNA can be false, putted, or in worst case if it's the real one, prove that they maybe raped the naked dead girl, but not kill.

The fact that they have been tortured, humiliated forced to say they guilty, should take away half of the punishment.

[Crash999]

Until the statement by the Miller family, I would have naturally said no. That statement changed everything. If they can clearly and categorically say that after all they've been through and all the evidence they must have combed through and along with advice they must have received from the UK police, I have to say the same thing. GUILTY.

The so called "evidence" has been going through so many stages I don't think anyone in a normal court could do anything but discredit it and make a either let them go or make a retrial....

In the first reports I thought I read dna cleared them and they were released by the police.....

After a few weeks they decided the dna does match and arrested them again?

I don't know the exact facts but I hope these boys get a fair trial with a good lawyer..

If they did it hang em high..... As long as they guilty.....

There is a ton of wrong information out there. The Burmese were interviewed and DNA and fingerprints collected right after the murder happened. Same with dozens of other people. DNA testing started a couple days later and some of the first suspects like the Brit were ruled out. First arrest came a week later. And a couple days after the second arrest as the second guy had fled the island and changed his appearance.

DNA testing never ruled the Burmese out.

[Crash999]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

The DNA would prove what? Rape? Certainly not murder.

Would it be likely that two rapists would knock a man out, drag him into the sea to drown; rape a young lady and then leave her alive to be a witness?

Not suggesting the DNA test was valid, the guilt or innocence of these two or the validity of the investigation. Simply questioning your logic that in the circumstances of this case the rapists might have simply walked away and left the victim alive.

What DNA ? Were the specimens retained and test results conclusively proven ? made available to the defence and / or independent lab ? I think not . I totally agree with you i.e. DNA is hard to dispute.But there is no tangible evidence available , only hearsay . However , if rape was proven , for me they would be guilty by association as they would have been at the scene of the crime . BTW was a statement released by the defence giving the B2 account of their movements on the night of the crime as I have not seen it .

Don't forget that the defence was given the option to retest at an independent lab and they turned it down.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Crash999

[realenglish1]

Not sure about it PERIOD

[Crash999]

My vote was No!! But only because the information and misinformation from the powers that

be make it impossible to make an educated judgement. So its a case of too much in doubt.

I voted the same way for the same reason. Not because they're innocent but because some doubt.

But part of the problem could be the press. Thailand isn't known for great investigative journalism. People just print whatever quotes and rumors they get. I bet only half of the info available in court has made it out in a clear way to the public. It's also easy to find mistakes in articles like even the BBC one.

[SunsetT]

There should be more options for voting because the point is we simply do not know if they are guilty or not. But given the evidence I believe they must be not guilty.

[chicowoodduck]

Does not matter want anyone thinks....someone has to pay the price....these two got pushed to the front of the line...?

[hobobo]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

The DNA would prove what? Rape? Certainly not murder.

Consensual sex?

[Rimmer]

Some inflammatory and troll posts have been removed

[Ulic]

Where is the I don't know option. I don't know.

[Thaidream]

Since there is no chain of custody- no one is sure how the DNA may have been entered into the body of the deceased. In addition when one looks at all the other inconsistencies and lack of investigative integrity in the case- there should be grounds for a reversal on appeal. I, like many others, would like to hear from witnsses at the AC bar and a timeline established around the movements of everyone in this case. The answer to all our doubts lies here.

[Cynical Sailor]

IMHO unless you were in the court and heard/saw the evidence in its entirety you aren't in a position to make an informed decision. Doing so on the basis of media reporting would be unwise. Judgment reserved.

[hugh2121]

As usual, not enough options to vote. I believe they have not been proven guilty and should, therefore, be released.

[hugh2121]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

It's hard to dispute if you are 100% sure of where the sample came from.

Remember the garden hoe? It is claimed to be the murder weapon. Their DNA was NOT on it.

[chelsea]

Who's DNA was used to find these 2 Burmese guys guilty ??

Was this DNA used to convict the 2 Burmese actually taken from the two British tourists by an independent and impartial authority ??

[metisdead]

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One post removed.

[ttthailand]

Guilty or not, the way the RTP handled the ENTIRE case shows a total lack of respect for all foreigners. How can anyone make an informed opinion with all the screw ups, cover ups and lies that happened in this case. The only thing I wonder is why they mislead, covered up and lied so much ... Who where they protecting ? A disgrace !!! Thailand will forever be know for being the hub of injustice.

Edited December 27, 2015 by ttthailand

[ttthailand]

A further thought

The findings of the British police, who visited the scene of the crime, were never published

As a UK citizen I am allowed to criticse my own country, and I think the decision not to go public stinks, and wastes U K taxpayers money if the result is withheld

I have written to my MP

as a British citizen do you have the right to request those documents ? Is there a freedom of information regarding government cases ?

[fxe1200]

I believe they are guilty...DNA is hard to dispute.....

However botched the investigation turned out to be DNA does not lie....

If you mix a DNA sample with another, it does not lie either?

Sean McAnna was threatened with death by two locals after the murder. He managed to escape into the jungle and could leave Koh Tao. Do you think these two Thai locals tried to save the A** of the two Burmese? Does not sound logic.

Why did the clothing of Hanna disappear, as their were good matter to take DNA samples from?

Why was the first investigating officer removed from that case and the initial findings and results were never completed?

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

Why did Nomsod gave DNA samples in broad public, and it was never stated, that they have been tested and compared with the findings (garden hoe)? Sure is, that those results, if obtained, never found the way into the files of the prosecution, as the prosecution was already closed at that time.

The list goes on and on.

[Rob13]

The police involved know for sure.

Maybe they do, just as likely they don't. From where I'm seated,it looks like they wanted the case closed quick in a way to protect tourism and save face for the Thais. But there's been nothing reported to make me think the police know what happened.

The victims and whoever did it are the only ones I can be sure of knowing what happened.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Rob13

[greenchair]

Guilty of murder. Who knows.

Guilty of accessory to murder.

Absolutely. They David's phone.

They concealed that phone. They were there. I do believe there is at least 1 or more people involved. If the b2 are not prepared to lay all the cards on the table. Then guilty is acceptable.

[stander]

Yes guilty as charged

Edited December 27, 2015 by stander