British-led Card Room raided by officials in South Pattaya

[Basil B]

-- BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35505063

[Basil B]

This is going to be a good story i can tell. If pressure is put on the court to drop the case the police lose face, if the old folks get prosecuted all hell will break lose in the international press world. It's a lose lose situation for Thailand and the guy who initiated this farce must be squirming in a corner right now.

And quite rightly so! He should be sacked for making such an uninformed decision, resulting in such a huge waste of resources that should be being used to find some proper criminals (and I presume there will be many) in Pattaya. But that won't happen as he has probably bought his position, so the best we can hope for is a move to an inactive post, with maybe an additional punishment being a hundred lines (a traditional punishment in UK schools):- "I must not raid bridge parties".

What is so appalling is they are continuing to wast the courts time with prosecuting these people, while real criminals if caught are fined 100 or 500B at the police station and told not to do it again, ...well not to do it again today.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed, we are talking about 'British-led Card Room raided' not living costs in Pattaya.

[champers]

I can feel a song coming on: "Sex and drugs and rock and bridge, dum dum dum de de deeerr, sex and drugs and rock and bridge is very good for me"

[ukrules]

Question - is there anything like Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich's interview in the unmentionable paper detailing how bad this is for Thailand's image and likely damage to the tourist industry appearing in any of the Thai language press?

I think more might be interested in this if it did.

I've been discussing this issue with my girlfriend and told her how it's being reported all over the world which makes the whole country look stupid.

I then asked her if she's read or heard anything about it in the Thai news and she said 'no, nothing'.

So they haven't got a clue what's going on.

[Basil B]

AFIK only one newspaper has gone to town on this, Pattaya One, well done Howard.

Better watch your back though, it was only last week cartoonist 'Stephff' was told to pack his bags.

[Tolley]

Question - is there anything like Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich's interview in the unmentionable paper detailing how bad this is for Thailand's image and likely damage to the tourist industry appearing in any of the Thai language press?

I think more might be interested in this if it did.

I've been discussing this issue with my girlfriend and told her how it's being reported all over the world which makes the whole country look stupid.

I then asked her if she's read or heard anything about it in the Thai news and she said 'no, nothing'.

So they haven't got a clue what's going on.

No and they don't care either.

And neither do the police, govt, or army.

[Psychic]

A statement by MBE Barry Kenyon.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/The-Unlikely-Outlaws-still-waiting-to-get-our-bond-30278707.html

[Rimmer]

More off topic posts removed

[BritTim]

So, Chiang Mai bridge club, or anywhere else in Thailand. Ensure the premises are licensed. Ensure official approved Thai cards are used. Put up a sign stating 'This club plays duplicate bridge, where NO gambling takes place by any player, and is therefore exempt under Thai law.'

And if players still get arrested and fined at sea-side resorts, start a group jet-ski business instead...

The Pattaya club, which had been operating for over 20 years, had recently been given the all clear by the local police. Who else should they have asked whether they were in contravention of any laws? It is scarcely practical to request vetting by every official body in the country. Actually, I do know the answer. They need to get clearance from the local mafia. No one would dare touch them (any more than real criminal activities in Pattaya) if they were known to be under the mafia's protection.

[Basil B]

As I see it unless they are going to drum up more charges, there are just two offences more than 120 playing cards, and no official seal on the cards.

I am also assuming that all the cards were the property of the club therefore this is like giving the driver and every passenger on a bus a ticket for an iffy tyre...

Note to Self, check the tyres before getting on a bus in future.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Basil B

[BritTim]

As I see it unless they are going to drum up more charges, there are just two offences more than 120 playing cards, and no official seal on the cards.

I am also assuming that all the cards were the property of the club therefore this is like giving the driver and every passenger on a bus a ticket for an iffy tyre...

Note to Self, check the tyres before getting on a bus in future.

The RTP has signed confessions that the bridge players were gambling. When backed up by the sworn testimony of senior police officers that they witnessed such gambling, the attempted retraction of their confessions will carry little weight with the judge. (Evidence of torture to extract confessions is insufficient to have them overturned in a Thai court.) Further, the examination of the computers will show money transfers, though unfortunately the evidence will no longer be available due to a hardware malfunction. If the authorities choose to proceed with the prosecutions (which they normally would, but may be dissuaded from by political considerations) guilty verdicts would be fairly certain.

[sweatalot]

How about them suing the police for wrongful arrest, or at the very least for distress caused by the disproportionate action taken and demand a public apology.

wish that were possible in LOS

[sweatalot]

Well interestingly enough.. the police came to visit the wife out our new house today.. claiming that we were illegally running card games upstairs.. the police demanded to see the upstairs and all they found was furniture..

informed the missus that if they return tell them to poke it.

Kurt

OT but important

Is the police allowed to enter a house without a warrant?

If not so - what can you do if they insist on entering anyway?

[billd766]

The more I see of this the more I realise that Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich is the kind of Thai I remember and came back to Thailand expecting to find.

Sadly her kind are way outnumbered now.

But isn't she a member of the Thai elite who everybody moans and whines about?

At least she did a lot for all the foreigners who were arrested which seems more than all the embassies did combined.

[harrry]

The more I see of this the more I realise that Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich is the kind of Thai I remember and came back to Thailand expecting to find.

Sadly her kind are way outnumbered now.

But isn't she a member of the Thai elite who everybody moans and whines about?

At least she did a lot for all the foreigners who were arrested which seems more than all the embassies did combined.

My guess from one of the older elite who were taught that with privileges go responsibilities.

[mydee]

Had a look in Thai Raht over the last week but couldn't see anything

Question - is there anything like Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich's interview in the unmentionable paper detailing how bad this is for Thailand's image and likely damage to the tourist industry appearing in any of the Thai language press?

I think more might be interested in this if it did.

[elgordo38]

The more I see of this the more I realise that Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich is the kind of Thai I remember and came back to Thailand expecting to find.

Sadly her kind are way outnumbered now.

Yes they are now outnumbered and most expats should take serious note of that. When a lady of this woman's stature cannot bring total closure to a ridiculous case like this we should all become seriously worried as I seem to notice the beginning of a trend here not a good trend. If your a futuristic thinking I think you can see where this is going.

[rijit]

^^^ Imo given the worlds swing to wards all things digital an innapropriate outdated and quite frankly ridiculous law that enforcing adds little to the countries credibility,, but hey,, that's Asia for you,, get things done and worry bout it after:)

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[billd766]

There were also considerably more that one person.

It seems as though there were 32 players so 32 x 120 = there should have been more than 3,820 palying cards and each player would be allowed 2 packs.

It was a poorly planned, badly conceived and carried out raid with no knowledge that the club was operating under the rules and had been for at least 22 years.

Do you, personally, know of anybody who knows every Thai law which is still active 80 years after it was introduced?

Even the police had to scramble around to find a law which had been broken and in doing so made themselves look more ridiculous than they did actually holding the raid in the first place.

2 reasonably senior police officers, in or out of uniform, who speak good English could have gone in on any Thursday during the last 22 years and found out what was going on and even learned that the police already knew about the bridge club and they would have saved so much face the the raid has lost for Thailand.

[JSixpack]

The more I see of this the more I realise that Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich is the kind of Thai I remember and came back to Thailand expecting to find.

Sadly her kind are way outnumbered now.

Yes they are now outnumbered and most expats should take serious note of that. When a lady of this woman's stature cannot bring total closure to a ridiculous case like this we should all become seriously worried as I seem to notice the beginning of a trend here not a good trend. If your a futuristic thinking I think you can see where this is going.

The dire future of Pattaya and of farangs in Thailand has already been depicted, graphically, on THIS forum to everyone's complete satisfaction, about 2 years ago. Everyone's already been advised to RUN! NOW!

So that's really IT. That's ALL.

[Mousehound]

I think we need to wait and see how the Thai legal system handles this before getting too excited. Thai law seems no worse than any western country to me in that all countries have some pretty strange laws. The Police are just doing their job. The courts will do theirs and then laws are either amended or not. The real test will be in the end result. That is the time to analyse the situation. A possible scenario might be that the event is indeed found to be technically in contravention of a law. In such a circumstance provided a sentence is not mandated then the court has the ability to sentence as it sees fit. The lobbying by significant others and public opinion would most likely have a bearing on the sentence - it could be a token sentence. This would say that the law was broken but there are mitigating factors. It may be that it is then recommended that the law be amended to say allow Contract Bridge through registered clubs to be exempt. Then it is up to the law makers to make their decision. This is just one scenario.

I don't think it helpful to rant at the Thai legal system or the Police. Laws are always being changed as the world changes. That is how the law works. Compared with some of the recent laws in Australia the Thai system seems far more considered. For example, any group of five would need a special license to meet. Or that if you discussed you employment contract with your wife, lawyer or accountant very heavy fines and jail were a real very possibility. The withholding of your labour can also lead to jail. But until recently you could urinate on the offside front wheel of your car, whilst stationary and on a carriageway, but to do so on a rear wheel could result in a trip to the choky.

[stephenterry]

The game of bridge where no money is involved is exempt from Thai law.

[soalbundy]

The more I see of this the more I realise that Khunying Chodchoy Sophonpanich is the kind of Thai I remember and came back to Thailand expecting to find.

Sadly her kind are way outnumbered now.

Yes they are now outnumbered and most expats should take serious note of that. When a lady of this woman's stature cannot bring total closure to a ridiculous case like this we should all become seriously worried as I seem to notice the beginning of a trend here not a good trend. If your a futuristic thinking I think you can see where this is going.

The dire future of Pattaya and of farangs in Thailand has already been depicted, graphically, on THIS forum to everyone's complete satisfaction, about 2 years ago. Everyone's already been advised to RUN! NOW!

So that's really IT. That's ALL.

A touch exaggerated perhaps

[Isitjustme]

This actually made the national TV news, even had the police video. A bunch of confused old folks playing Bridge.

Unclear what crime was committed, anyone know?

The offense relates to Section 8 of the Playing Cards Act of 1935 which states that an individual is not allowed to possess more than 120 playing cards at any one time. At the Bridge event, considerably more than 120 playing cards were found by officers.

I don't see the problem here except for the number of officers involved in the arrest. These people are criminals who broke the law. They knew they were committing a crime but obviously thought as affluent foreigners they were above the law or were too culturally insensitive to care. If you live in a country you should follow its laws and customs regardless of whether you agree with them or not. If you do not want to do that face the consequences or go somewhere else. I bet many of these would be the first to whine about foreigners in their on country flaunting the laws and refusing to conform to cultural norms.

They didnt break any law idiot. They weren't gambling.

[Isitjustme]

Is there some sort of clampdown on people ridiculing the BIB?

Clearly they don't need any assistance in this. Doing a sterling job themselves IMO .

[Isitjustme]

The Pattaya grey MAFIA - A bridge too far?

THe Keystone cops couldn't have done a better job....

A bridge too far.. haha very good...very sharp...card sharp?

[brewsterbudgen]

This actually made the national TV news, even had the police video. A bunch of confused old folks playing Bridge.

Unclear what crime was committed, anyone know?

The offense relates to Section 8 of the Playing Cards Act of 1935 which states that an individual is not allowed to possess more than 120 playing cards at any one time. At the Bridge event, considerably more than 120 playing cards were found by officers.

I don't see the problem here except for the number of officers involved in the arrest. These people are criminals who broke the law. They knew they were committing a crime but obviously thought as affluent foreigners they were above the law or were too culturally insensitive to care. If you live in a country you should follow its laws and customs regardless of whether you agree with them or not. If you do not want to do that face the consequences or go somewhere else. I bet many of these would be the first to whine about foreigners in their on country flaunting the laws and refusing to conform to cultural norms.

They didnt break any law idiot. They weren't gambling.

Isn't that for the Court to decide?

[Isitjustme]

Love your sense of humour hahaha

Like this is going to court.

[Jingthing]

Love your sense of humour hahaha

Like this is going to court.

Wasn't that the most recent public announcement, that it WAS going to court?

My impression is that passports and bail money are being held and the bridge suspects must appear in court.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Jingthing