Be guaranty problem

[Putu94]

My friend is guaranty from a other friend who she trusted.

Guaranty was signed with a property

all done by good willing

The "Friend" was buying and selling cars

Now it turns out because of gambling he not payed his debts.

The bank hold my friend now responsible because of been guaranty.

And want to take the house

I find this very unfair, nothing my friend have done wrong

only trusted somebody, who is completely wrong

what is your opinion ? can this be a court case ?

thank you for your answers.

[Satcommlee]

Not Fair??? Whoever signed the guarantee must have been fully aware of the consequences!

Edited February 14, 2016 by Satcommlee

[JHolmesJr]

Yes it can be a court case…..to try and convict your friend of insanity.

[chowny77]

As soon as your friend signed the dotted lined they were F&*Ked. Never ever do this, unless you have a back up for just this kind of situation!

[Putu94]

If you have a good heart, you try to help

but now a whole family is in worry.

lets hope a court case will help

Can not be that the "friend" run away and can go on with gambling and cheating

[Ghostmanthai]

Your friend needs to think about the sort of friend he is friends with. Why risk with someone who gambles? Bad business right from the start

[Putu94]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

[simon43]

Ask yourself - what is the reason to be a guarantor? Answer - it is to pay the debts if the person who borrows the money/buys the car etc fails to pay his debts.

Simple as hat. You should never act as a guarantor if you are not prepared to pay the debts in full if the borrower defaults.

[Shot]

"The "friend" was buying and selling cars"

Can the OP clarify that? Is there are car or cars involved and or around that can be repoed?

[HooHaa]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

i think you need to took up the definition of guarantee.

your friend agreed to pay the debt if the purchaser skipped.

that is the whole point of a guarantee - someone with the money promises to pay if the purchaser does not.

[robblok]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

If that is true.. then only the debt of the car has to be paid. If the one who bought the car does not pay then your friend has to pay. That is how a guarantee works. Must be an expensive car if they want to take away the house.

The only thing your friend can do is going after the one who bought the car, the bank or finance company is 100% in his right.

[KittenKong]

Sounds like a typical Thai money story to me. People here (all skin colours) do the most stupid things sometimes and the only answer is never to lend them money or get involved in any way.

[Putu94]

He started to bye one car , therefore the guaranty

My friend did this because he did the same before , and taught to help him in good trust.

It turns out to without knowing that he was gambling also

the question stays , if it is good to make a court case.?

( we talking about 500.000 baht)

I am willing to help with a lawyer

[robblok]

He started to bye one car , therefore the guaranty

My friend did this because he did the same before , and taught to help him in good trust.

It turns out to without knowing that he was gambling also

the question stays , if it is good to make a court case.?

( we talking about 500.000 baht)

I am willing to help with a lawyer

To be honest a court case against the finance company will fail.. so the only option is a court case against the friend that bought the car and did not pay. You have to see if that "friend" has any money because otherwise the court case is for nothing.

[KittenKong]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

If that is true.. then only the debt of the car has to be paid. If the one who bought the car does not pay then your friend has to pay. That is how a guarantee works. Must be an expensive car if they want to take away the house.

The only thing your friend can do is going after the one who bought the car, the bank or finance company is 100% in his right.

My understanding of the situation is that the cars were sold correctly but the vendor lost the money gambling and failed to pay his supplier. If so there can be no recourse against the person who bought and paid for the car.

Plenty of people here have cars which are worth more than their house, though it doesn't make much sense to me.

[4evermaat]

.....

Plenty of people here have cars which are worth more than their house, though it doesn't make much sense to me.

A car has much more utility in cash-based societies. In Argentina, cars generally appreciate in value. In the USA, a new car depreciates in value about 25-40% as soon as you drive it off the lot. It's relative to where you are.

[robblok]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

If that is true.. then only the debt of the car has to be paid. If the one who bought the car does not pay then your friend has to pay. That is how a guarantee works. Must be an expensive car if they want to take away the house.

The only thing your friend can do is going after the one who bought the car, the bank or finance company is 100% in his right.

My understanding of the situation is that the cars were sold correctly but the vendor lost the money gambling and failed to pay his supplier. If so there can be no recourse against the person who bought and paid for the car.

Plenty of people here have cars which are worth more than their house, though it doesn't make much sense to me.

I am talking about the "friend who did not pay the debts" not the person he sold the car too (if he did so probably did otherwise the bank would have taken that car".

The only recourse the one who guaranteed has is to sue that friend (but I doubt there is money there)

What the finance company / bank did is 100% in accordance with the law so any lawsuit is going to fail.

[KittenKong]

Plenty of people here have cars which are worth more than their house, though it doesn't make much sense to me.

A car has much more utility in cash-based societies. In Argentina, cars generally appreciate in value. In the USA, a new car depreciates in value about 25-40% as soon as you drive it off the lot. It's relative to where you are.

They depreciate fast here too, so I dont think that's the reason. I think that many Thais just prefer expensive cars over better houses. Magpies.

[KittenKong]

I am talking about the "friend who did not pay the debts" not the person he sold the car too (if he did so probably did otherwise the bank would have taken that car".

The only recourse the one who guaranteed has is to sue that friend (but I doubt there is money there)

I see. Yes, the only recourse is legal action against him but as you say he probably has nothing anyway.

[bigt3116]

Plenty of people here have cars which are worth more than their house, though it doesn't make much sense to me.

A car has much more utility in cash-based societies. In Argentina, cars generally appreciate in value. In the USA, a new car depreciates in value about 25-40% as soon as you drive it off the lot. It's relative to where you are.

They depreciate fast here too, so I dont think that's the reason. I think that many Thais just prefer expensive cars over better houses. Magpies.

Are you sure about that ?

https://excelmaster.co/analysis-of-second-hand-car-prices-in-bangkok/

[meatboy]

Ask yourself - what is the reason to be a guarantor? Answer - it is to pay the debts if the person who borrows the money/buys the car etc fails to pay his debts.

Simple as hat. You should never act as a guarantor if you are not prepared to pay the debts in full if the borrower defaults.

yep never mind whats it for never ever go guarantor,a family member found himself in the same boat,he was lucky my wife bailed him out otherwise

your freind should count himself lucky its a bank and not a SHARK.

[jonclark]

It's really hard to give advice on this without knowing how much if anything has been paid on the car or what the type of car it is etc. But assuming some of the money has been paid back and the car is reasonably new and in good condition and you friend has access to it.

As the guarantor, your friend could try the following route, contact the finance company and arrange to purchase the car out right if your friend is unable to pay, providing ownership changes, once your friend has the car in his/her name and paid for, quickly sell it cheaply.

A loss will be incurred, but the matter is settled and your friend could chase the person for the outstanding amount.

However whether this is possible based on the limited information given is hard to work out.

[Pib]

It's perfectly fair...your friend signed as loan guarantor. A guarantor has a big responsibility and takes a big risk in hoping that friend/family member actually does pay back the loan.

If your friend (the guarantor) refuses to pay then he/she is really just a bad as the friend who originally got the loan.

When you sign your name to a loan contract as a guarantor you better be prepared to assume the worst that you may get stuck with paying off the loan.

Within my family of Thai in-laws (some cousins of my Thai wife) I've seen two cases just over the last two years where a family member signed as loan guarantor for another family member and now the guarantor is stuck in paying off the loan. In both cases it dealt with car loans. And no, I'm not involved...nor my Thai wife....we've just been watching and hearing about the mess through the family grapevine. It goes without saying it has ruined relations for a lifetime between some family members.

[Putu94]

Thank you all so much

it helps a lot

together we will find good solution

with help lawyer

[DLock]

Thank you all so much

it helps a lot

together we will find good solution

with help lawyer

There is no solution. A lawyer cannot help.

Your friend and the guy that has (or sold) the car did not have an agreement between them so there is no legal recourse.

The only agreement is that your friend agreed to pay the finance company if the guy with the car failed to pay.

Your friend is liable for the debt. Some guy got a cheap car...if you know where he is, then that's where you need to focus your effort to try and "encourage" him to either pay the finance company or pay your friend back.

I have seen this happen to Thai's twice, and whilst it is pretty rough situation for the Guarantor, I had to ask what was the reason they signed. There was no upside, only potential downside. Dumb.

[blackcab]

Thank you all so much

it helps a lot

together we will find good solution

with help lawyer

Lawyer this, lawyer that. Forget lawyers. There is no lawyer that can help. All they will do is take your money and ultimately say there is nothing that can be done.

Your intentions are good, just like the person that guaranteed the loan. Actually listen to what we are saying and you will not lose money trying to solve a problem with no solution.

[fstarbkk]

The only legal recourse your friend has, is against his own deadbeat friend. In practice, this means he may get a judgement against the guy for whom he guaranteed the loan, which will be worthless, since the guy has no money.

In the meantime he may pay many thousands to a lawyer, and spend years in court, only to get a worthless piece of paper.

The money is gone, either way!

[scorecard]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

'Just trying to be a good friend'. 'there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car.'

Well your concern is nice. But these words have no meaning, there is no 'never mind' options when you sign a guarantee document. It's a legal and very binding document.

There is very very little chance a court will cancel a guarantee document unless your friend can very clearly prove she was forced to sign the document. The court officer needs to follow the law. A guarantee document is a serious document.

'Just trying to be a good friend' has no meaning whatever to the court.

Not good news, but that's it.

If the person who has not been paid takes the borrower to court, the court official will not change anything and will not make a court order for the borrower to pay up because it now involves gambling debts - an illegal activity.

End of case. Bye bye.

The court official might give the borrower a lecture about the evils of gambling and about getting other people into trouble but the court official will not cancel the guarantee, the court official can't do this.

Yes you are correct the gambler will probably just keep gambling and make more debts.

By the way, what details are on the guarantee document? is it somehow an open document? Why not take a copy to a lawyer and see if it's possible this gambler could use it again in some way. If yes then maybe you could ask the court to have it cancelled for any future use, but that would not cancel the existing situation.

Or, get a layer to write a clear letter, signed by you, stating that you now cancel the guarantee document from today. And pay for the lawyer to get a private detective or a serious debt collection agency to find the gambler and make him take your letter, read it and then force him to sign a receipt that he has received your letter and understands what it means.

I see only two other possibilities:

- Hire a serious debt collection agency to visit the family of the gambler and push them hard to pay his gambling debts.

- Hire a serious debt collection agency and pay them to find the gambler and force the gambler to pay the gambling debt, or just take his possessions and sell them to pay the outstanding gambling debt.

Dangerous - yes, you probably know that this could also bring serious life threatening revenge against your friend.

Edited February 16, 2016 by scorecard

[matador007]

Som nam na.

[SOTIRIOS]

...in my first 6 months here....I 'helped' people to the tune of over 200,000 baht.....

...I never got a baht back....

...fast forward and I need help myself...nowhere to be found......

...then you ask why 'so many farangs abuse alcohol'.....

...first of all I do not agree....it is stereotyping of foreigners...and statistically Thais are some of the biggest drinkers in the world...

...I do not drink myself.....

...but basically...you soon find out...good intentions will get you scr*wed in the end....with nowhere for you to turn...

...court....???

...good luck...