Fake G-to-G rice deals: Boonsong and 21 associates may face 20bn baht in compensation

[webfact]

Mr Boonsong and his 21 associates may face 20 billion baht in compensation for fake G-to-G rice deals



BANGKOK: -- Former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and 21 individuals who include commerce officials and businessmen involved in the fake G-to-G rice deals are to face a lawsuit demanding hefty compensation amounting to 20 billion baht for damages from the fake rice deals.

A well-informed Commerce Ministry source said that investigators into the fake rice deals had come up with a figure of the damages estimated at about 20 billion baht.

The report figure will be submitted to the Finance Ministry which will work out how much compensation each of the 22 people implicated in the fraud will be held accountable, said the source, adding that Mr Boonsong, the chief suspect, will have to bear the most compensation.

The source said the Commerce Ministry had been notified by the Office of the Attorney-General about the progress of the probe into the fake G-to-G rice deals which were earlier ruled by the National Anti-Corruption Commission as grounded.

The OAG is optimistic that it can indict 15 businessmen implicated in the rice scheme with criminal charges.

Meanwhile, it was reported that the Pheu Thai party had hired 17 Thai and foreign lawyers to help in the defence of former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra charged with dereliction of duty for her failure to stop damages to the state caused by the rice pledging scheme estimated at about 500 billion baht.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/151045


-- Thai PBS 2016-02-16

[smedly]

get the arm in to these lovely people right up to the elbow - we are untouchable

touch your toes lol

[jaidam]

Some of the most amusing threads on TVF were ones concerning these fake rice deals as they were announced. Obvious, howling corruption by a clan that lived to steal. That wasn't the funny bit. The funny bit was the members that swallowed the Shins honest grassroots heroes nonsense and went "all in" defending and guaranteeing the G to G deals were both real, and business genius only possible by legends like the Shin cabal. Well, 55555

[scorecard]

Some of the most amusing threads on TVF were ones concerning these fake rice deals as they were announced. Obvious, howling corruption by a clan that lived to steal. That wasn't the funny bit. The funny bit was the members that swallowed the Shins honest grassroots heroes nonsense and went "all in" defending and guaranteeing the G to G deals were both real, and business genius only possible by legends like the Shin cabal. Well, 55555

Well said.

IMHO these characters, all of them seemed to think that the whole Thai population was stupid and wouldn't have any idea of what they openly up to, as well as feeling that they had entitlement to cheat on a grand scale. As well as believing nobody would dare touch them, as well as believing that big brother would always protect them / would always have the (inappropriate) power to protect them.

Totally confiscate ALL their assets and put them all under a punishment of locked individually on 1 rai of non-productive land with no resources or equipment whatever and 2,000Baht in the bank, nothing more allowed, anything they produce poorly paid / ripped off by the middle man etc., and they have to pay rent for the land and therefore not entitled to any support schemes, just survive in poverty from their own labor - forever. And never allowed to vote or participate in any way in politics, including village level or take any form of other employment (they can't be trusted).

Hope their passports have been removed.

[smedly]

Some of the most amusing threads on TVF were ones concerning these fake rice deals as they were announced. Obvious, howling corruption by a clan that lived to steal. That wasn't the funny bit. The funny bit was the members that swallowed the Shins honest grassroots heroes nonsense and went "all in" defending and guaranteeing the G to G deals were both real, and business genius only possible by legends like the Shin cabal. Well, 55555

Well said.

IMHO these characters, all of them seemed to think that the whole Thai population was stupid and wouldn't have any idea of what they openly up to, as well as feeling that they had entitlement to cheat on a grand scale. As well as believing nobody would dare touch them, as well as believing that big brother would always protect them / would always have the (inappropriate) power to protect them.

Totally confiscate ALL their assets and put them all under a punishment of locked individually on 1 rai of non-productive land with no resources or equipment whatever and 2,000Baht in the bank, nothing more allowed, anything they produce poorly paid / ripped off by the middle man etc., and they have to pay rent for the land and therefore not entitled to any support schemes, just survive in poverty from their own labor - forever. And never allowed to vote or participate in any way in politics, including village level or take any form of other employment (they can't be trusted).

Hope their passports have been removed.

I used to have a saved post from a couple of years ago explaining how this thing went down, can't find it now

These types of people need to know they cannot get away with this stuff any longer

[ezzra]

While the earnest PM is vigorously busy in eradicating fake products from the Thai markets, right here,

in front of all the nation, a giant conspiracy to defraud the nation is going on with FAKE deals

by non others that government's ministers and their lackeys......

[z42]

If ever there was a need to confiscate passports then this is certainly that time. I would bet my last penny that the really connected folks here are already in the process of moving assets out and will be shipping out themselves shortly after

[worgeordie]

May = it will never happen..

regards Worgeordie

[robblok]

Lets hope they can speed these trials up before the PTP gets back in power otherwise the guilty won't be punished. Now they can't use the red thugs to intimidate judges, as the army would see to that. Also they can't use political pressure so it would mean they have no advantages and it would be a fair trial. Its all clear why the PTP wants elections ASAP.. so they can use their influence to get their people of the hook for their crimes.

I feel an other amnesty coming if they ever get in power.

[Eric Loh]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

[mike324]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

[tbthailand]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

What about jail time? Isn't fraud on a massive scale like this worthy of jail time as well?

[scorecard]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

So perhaps you could comment on the lack of any form of justice for the folks gunned down, including women and children, during the paymasters 'era'?

[Eric Loh]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

This erosion of democracy happens to coincide with the rise of juristocracy last decade. If the draft charter gets the nod, we will see more power to the courts and independent agencies and more conflicts.

[scorecard]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

This erosion of democracy happens to coincide with the rise of juristocracy last decade. If the draft charter gets the nod, we will see more power to the courts and independent agencies and more conflicts.

Well the erosion of democracy get a big boost the day the paymaster 'won' the first election.

In the last of his governments (gangs of paid yes men with a fake PM) democracy was eroded enormously, all according to his master plan to create his dictatorship.

Edited February 16, 2016 by scorecard

[Ulic]

Personally don't understand fake G to G rice deals.

I/ The rice was taken but not sold to other governments. (I think)

2/ The money was not paid for the rice. (I guess)

or was there never any rice taken and sold, just the news of a deal

to put the government in a good light but the rice is still there.

It would be clear and simple if the just sad the rice was stolen. Never

mind fake deals, no matter who made them. The rice was either

stolen or sold and it sounds like it was stolen as in, nobody paid for

rice that is missing.

[Srikcir]

I can understand the charge that the G-G rice sale was a fake. The rice was purchased by the accused from the External Trade Department that handles exports. But Instead of rice actually being sold to the Chinese government, it was sold locally.¹

So there was wrongdoing in the misrepresentation of the buyer and possible official conflict of interest. But how do damages to the government apply?

The rice came from Yingluck’s rice pledge program stockpile wherein the government originally agreed to pay twice the then market price for the rice from farmers when it was sold. So to create damage to the government, did the accused purchase the rice at less than market price, essentially stealing part of the real profit margin?

Or did the accused purchase the rice at actual market price that would have triggered farmer payments at twice market price? This would create a loss to the government. But Yingluck is being sued for that damage. If Boonsong and 21 associates (actually the merger of two separate cases!) are charged with 20bn baht, will the charge for compensation against Yingluck be reduced by 20nb baht?

When you set aside the political passions, there's a lot of inadequate explanations about grounds for compensation.

1. http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/three-executives-and-four-firms-indicted-in-fake-g-to-g-rice-deal/128049/

[Baerboxer]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

Those poor children murdered by terrorists, whose murder was cheered and applauded openly by senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders when announced were certainly innocent too.

The process of justice is somewhat meandering and puzzling to foreigners, but let's see how the trial goes before anyone is convicted or shown to be innocent.

[scorecard]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

Those poor children murdered by terrorists, whose murder was cheered and applauded openly by senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders when announced were certainly innocent too.

The process of justice is somewhat meandering and puzzling to foreigners, but let's see how the trial goes before anyone is convicted or shown to be innocent.

And right there '... senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders ...' a great example of lack of democracy.

...

[Baerboxer]

I can understand the charge that the G-G rice sale was a fake. The rice was purchased by the accused from the External Trade Department that handles exports. But Instead of rice actually being sold to the Chinese government, it was sold locally.¹

So there was wrongdoing in the misrepresentation of the buyer and possible official conflict of interest. But how do damages to the government apply?

The rice came from Yingluck’s rice pledge program stockpile wherein the government originally agreed to pay twice the then market price for the rice from farmers when it was sold. So to create damage to the government, did the accused purchase the rice at less than market price, essentially stealing part of the real profit margin?

Or did the accused purchase the rice at actual market price that would have triggered farmer payments at twice market price? This would create a loss to the government. But Yingluck is being sued for that damage. If Boonsong and 21 associates (actually the merger of two separate cases!) are charged with 20bn baht, will the charge for compensation against Yingluck be reduced by 20nb baht?

When you set aside the political passions, there's a lot of inadequate explanations about grounds for compensation.

1. http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/three-executives-and-four-firms-indicted-in-fake-g-to-g-rice-deal/128049/

Hope their legal team have some better ideas than this piffle.

They bought rice from the government stockpile at the lower "export" price. Only their export orders were fraudulent. Then they sold the rice locally at a higher price and pocketed a bigger profit for themselves.

The difference between the export price to buyers for genuine export and the higher price for sales intended to be re-sold locally is one loss. And of course, simply re-funding that loss and pretending everything is "squared" off is not the remedy that seemingly is being sort.

Interesting how the Shin clan and their cronies think that simply handing back something you've stolen or cheated makes it all alright and good to go.

Get caught doing the crime, be prepared to do the time, and/or pay the cost.

[Baerboxer]

Those poor children murdered by terrorists, whose murder was cheered and applauded openly by senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders when announced were certainly innocent too.

The process of justice is somewhat meandering and puzzling to foreigners, but let's see how the trial goes before anyone is convicted or shown to be innocent.

And right there '... senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders ...' a great example of lack of democracy.

...

Remember Ms. Yingluck is a champion prepared to die on the battlefield of democracy - 555!

We've all seen how one leader, one family, one party can work. And it ain't got anything to do with democracy!

[Baerboxer]

Wow, 17 lawyers, Thai and foreign in Ms. Yingluck's legal team. Big Brother is sparing no expense for little sis.

Are foreign lawyers allowed to take part in Thai legal proceedings? Or will they just be researchers?

Either way, wonder if they'll have the correct type of visa and work permit.

Or will the be confined to lobbying politicians, diplomats and the media outside Thailand with a "save our yingluck" campaign?

[phoenixdoglover]

Wow, 17 lawyers, Thai and foreign in Ms. Yingluck's legal team. Big Brother is sparing no expense for little sis.

Are foreign lawyers allowed to take part in Thai legal proceedings? Or will they just be researchers?

Either way, wonder if they'll have the correct type of visa and work permit.

Or will the be confined to lobbying politicians, diplomats and the media outside Thailand with a "save our yingluck" campaign?

I'm not sure I understand your point of view. It's a huge case. The defense will not be a small team. And it's clear Thaksin, the upper echelon of PTP, and of course, Yingluck , have an essential stake in the outcome. What would you have them do?

[PaullyW]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

That westerners so often believe that one side is "good" and the other not is just plain ridiculous in Thailand.

News Flash: The entire country is corrupt and dishonest as a rule, not exception.

Where would one side have acquired the moral framework for honesty and selflessness that the other did not?

It's plain foolish to cheer for any of these corrupt thugs in suits.

Edited February 16, 2016 by PaullyW

[Eric Loh]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

That westerners so often believe that one side is "good" and the other not is just plain ridiculous in Thailand.

News Flash: The entire country is corrupt and dishonest as a rule, not exception.

Where would one side have acquired the moral framework for honesty and selflessness that the other did not?

It's plain foolish to cheer for any of these corrupt thugs in suits.

I will never cheer for any of those corrupted politicians, civil servants and men in uniform and certainly will never cheer for judiciary being politicized. I long for the day that the judiciary and the independent corruption agencies will be apolitical. The current reforms must make serious attempt to improve the selection process of office bearers. The perception of most Thais are rather negative of these offices staying neutral to their profession.

[tomacht8]

20.000.000.000 Baht or
20.000 Million Baht.

It's amazing how lax here the law is applied.
Serious finance crime at the highest level,
and the state throws with cotton balls and acts with silk gloves.

Everewhere else in the would they would imprison such criminals immediately and hold them until the start of the trial in prison.
Parallel the state would try as much as possible to confiscate of the stolen money.

No wonder that so much corruption and embezzlement are in high positions, it really happened to the perpetrators nothing here.
The honest taxpayers in Thailand are the stupid ones.

Edited February 16, 2016 by tomacht8

[scorecard]

Wow, 17 lawyers, Thai and foreign in Ms. Yingluck's legal team. Big Brother is sparing no expense for little sis.

Are foreign lawyers allowed to take part in Thai legal proceedings? Or will they just be researchers?

Either way, wonder if they'll have the correct type of visa and work permit.

Or will the be confined to lobbying politicians, diplomats and the media outside Thailand with a "save our yingluck" campaign?

I'm not sure I understand your point of view. It's a huge case. The defense will not be a small team. And it's clear Thaksin, the upper echelon of PTP, and of course, Yingluck , have an essential stake in the outcome. What would you have them do?

"And it's clear Thaksin, the upper echelon of PTP, and of course, Yingluck , have an essential stake in the outcome."

Is that an admittance on your part of guilt?

[phoenixdoglover]

Wow, 17 lawyers, Thai and foreign in Ms. Yingluck's legal team. Big Brother is sparing no expense for little sis.

Are foreign lawyers allowed to take part in Thai legal proceedings? Or will they just be researchers?

Either way, wonder if they'll have the correct type of visa and work permit.

Or will the be confined to lobbying politicians, diplomats and the media outside Thailand with a "save our yingluck" campaign?

I'm not sure I understand your point of view. It's a huge case. The defense will not be a small team. And it's clear Thaksin, the upper echelon of PTP, and of course, Yingluck , have an essential stake in the outcome. What would you have them do?

"And it's clear Thaksin, the upper echelon of PTP, and of course, Yingluck , have an essential stake in the outcome."

Is that an admittance on your part of guilt?

No.

However, if Yingluck is found liable for the losses of the rice scheme, than many others on her side of the fence might have that same legal theory applied to them. It's called legal precedent.

The more interesting question is "guilty of what crime, according to the law?"

We shall see, maybe.

Edited February 16, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[marinediscoking]

Hope their legal team have some better ideas than this piffle.

They bought rice from the government stockpile at the lower "export" price. Only their export orders were fraudulent. Then they sold the rice locally at a higher price and pocketed a bigger profit for themselves.

The difference between the export price to buyers for genuine export and the higher price for sales intended to be re-sold locally is one loss. And of course, simply re-funding that loss and pretending everything is "squared" off is not the remedy that seemingly is being sort.

Interesting how the Shin clan and their cronies think that simply handing back something you've stolen or cheated makes it all alright and good to go.

Get caught doing the crime, be prepared to do the time, and/or pay the cost.

I have not seen a press release with the inner workings of the scheme by the prosecutor as you describe. Where where these details released pertaining to this new case?