Uninsured foreigners burdens Thai public hospitals

[Eneukman]

All foreigners living or retired in Thailand should have to

Pay B3000 (B1000/month) every 90 days when they report

To Immigration. This would be the insurance premium that

Would allow foreigners to be covered with health care at any

Government Hospital. Out patient, inpatient and prescription

Drugs covered. All ILLEGAL overstays that do not report and

Do not pay insurance will be deported immediately when

Discovered. PERIOD......PROBLEM SOLVED Win win for

Thailand and Westerners.

I would be happy to pay 1000 baht per month BUT what happens if I leave the country on a regular basis before my 90 days are up? In the past, I have gone over 9 ,months without having to report my address.

Alan

[little mary sunshine]

You pay when you are in Thailand only. That is where you

Receive the treatment, unlike we Americans, pay $106each

Month for Medicare part B and never able to use out

Of the Country if you are retired....it's just in case you

Become ill in The States or decide to relocate back to

The States....then you pay an additional $250-300 each

To cover what Medicare doesn't pay.

[uptheos]

At UK check-in desks the airline staff check your flight details, then check your passport for a visa to match that duration...so the next step for this country would be to make it law that you must have valid insurance for the length of your stay, & be checked before boarding.

BUT...How many will falsify their details just to get that Certificate of Ins..?

The airline will want extra money for handling this extra burden.

The Thais will be miffed 'cos they want you to buy insurance here..(as mentioned before in this thread)

The hospitals get a result..even more profit when treating an insured patient (ever thought WHY your travel Ins is so expensive?..<deleted> greedy hospitals charging extortionate rates)...This high rate they hit the insurance companies with will easily offset their losses, so this all boils

down to the same old story here...

..THAI GREED!

But your length of stay could be up to 30 days more if you liked it here, would they expect you to buy that just in case you extend.....I very much doubt it.

[Bobotie]

.... i dont see why immigration or any other gov dept should have to facilitate anything, other than to require all foreigners have adequate medical insurance as part of their extension or visa being issued

The problem that will arise if they do not facilitate anything is that many resident expats already have pre-existing conditions which any private insurance policy would exclude. Meaning good chance they would face a medical emergency that their insurance would not cover.

In addition, there are some resident expats who truly can't afford private insurance premiums. I think this is far from all those who say they can't afford it, many of those simply do not want to cut down on other expenses or face the fact that they do need to spend money on health care. But there are those who are on very limited fixed incomes that really can't manage private insurance. These tend to be elderly people who settled here long ago when cost of living was lower, and some of them no longer have much in the way of ties to their home countries to fall back on either.

So a lot of problems if insurance is made mandatory but left entirely to the private market.

In addition, provided it is priced appropriately, there could be advantages for Thailand's health financing schemes to expand the pool of covered persons to include expats.

Some valid points, but the individuals concerned never did the responsible and adult thing by getting their insurances sorted out before it became a "problem" and now they expect someone to fix their problem ? Sounds all nanny state to me...suppose they will blame others for their lack of resonsibility in taking care of their own affairs

[MaeJoMTB]

Did I miss something I believe the story was about government hospitals

Nope, story is about private hospitals.

Now the private hospitals charge up to 25x the actual cost.

So their loss is in imaginary profits, they only lost 1/25 of their claim.

But remember there are plenty of foreigners with insurance companies paying the x25 fees.

It's like credit cards, you offer a hugely profitable service, and you take the small losses along with the huge profits.

But Thailand likes to portray foreigners as 'bad' ...... hence this story.

In reality they want us all out, except for tourists visiting once a year for 2 weeks with compulsory health insurance.

[Bobotie]

Solution, all foreigners to have mandatory comprehensive insurance. If not, no visa to enter Thailand. The problem can be solved very quickly

There's about 3.1 million foreigners living in Thailand, many of them are over age 65 and not eligible for medical health insurance, many want to pay as they go, what about them?

Foreigners chose to come to Thailand of their own free will, and with that comes responsibility to make sure that you are not a burden to the system. Furthermore, for Thais who wish to enter the EU must have a paid-up insurance policy. Surely Thailand has a right to protect itself in the same fashion.

Agree Thailand does have a right to protect it's health service.But you are wrong when you state that Thais must have a health insurance policy to enter the EU, certainly not the UK.

To obtain a schengan visa for europe a thai national must have paid up medical insurance for a sum of not less than USD 50k in coverage...so in terms of Europe, you are the one who is wrong

[MaeJoMTB]

Agree Thailand does have a right to protect it's health service.But you are wrong when you state that Thais must have a health insurance policy to enter the EU, certainly not the UK.

To obtain a schengan visa for europe a thai national must have paid up medical insurance for a sum of not less than USD 50k in coverage...so in terms of Europe, you are the one who is wrong

No insurance required for the EU if travelling with an EU spouse.

No insurance required for the UK, spouse or not.

Edited March 9, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[Bobotie]

Did I miss something I believe the story was about government hospitals

Nope, story is about private hospitals.

Now the private hospitals charge up to 25x the actual cost.

So their loss is in imaginary profits, they only lost 1/25 of their claim.

But remember there are plenty of foreigners with insurance companies paying the x25 fees.

It's like credit cards, you offer a hugely profitable service, and you take the small losses along with the huge profits.

But Thailand likes to portray foreigners as 'bad' ...... hence this story.

In reality they want us all out, except for tourists visiting once a year for 2 weeks with compulsory health insurance.

I suggest you go back to "go" and read the OP then, unless you dont understand the difference between the words public and private with reference to hospitals...the piece clearly states public hospitals, as to the rest of your pseudo finanical babble, do you have the facts to back your assertions ?

[Bobotie]

Agree Thailand does have a right to protect it's health service.But you are wrong when you state that Thais must have a health insurance policy to enter the EU, certainly not the UK.

To obtain a schengan visa for europe a thai national must have paid up medical insurance for a sum of not less than USD 50k in coverage...so in terms of Europe, you are the one who is wrong

No insurance required for the EU if travelling with an EU spouse.

No insurance required for the UK, spouse or not.

So unless said Thai national has an EU spouse, to obtain the Schengen visa they will be required to have medical insurance ? Correct ?....so the poster who stated "Thais" (non specfic generalisation) dont need medical insurance for europe is still wrong correct...?

[Traveller45]

May not always be the fault of the patient. The so-called Travel Health Insurances, which are inexpensive and easy to be had in e.g. Germany, cover only the first 90 days abroad and then only basic emergency treatment prior to repatriation. This is intended to cover holiday makers who have a basic (compulsory) Health Insurance in Germany. It is not intended to cover people who emigrate / establish themselves durably elsewhere. To my knowledge there is basically no comprehensive overseas health insurance available in Germany. Health insurance with worldwide cover is available from a couple of internationally operating insurances, e.g. CIGNA. This is more expensive than a Travel Insurance and is intended to cover situations of expatriation (people who go abroad for a number of years with the intent of returning). Deductibles apply, and an insurance of this type that covers 100% of treatment cost is quite expensive. It will also not cover any recurrences of a pre-existing condition. So for all these reasons I welcome the possibility of contracting proper Health Insurance upon arrival in Thailand, with indefinite coverage (as long as stay), provided that it is reasonably priced and actually covers.

[MaeJoMTB]

I suggest you go back to "go" and read the OP then, unless you dont understand the difference between the words public and private with reference to hospitals...the piece clearly states public hospitals, as to the rest of your pseudo finanical babble, do you have the facts to back your assertions ?

Maybe you're right about the type of hospital.

As for financial babble.

Had an accident in CM (fell while running), cut my knee open, blood spurting, sorted in the nearest government hospital (Suthep Road CM).

Cleaning, Novocain injections, 8 stitches, dressings, antibiotics and pain killers to take home.

250bht.

Friend fell off his m/c (same week), cut his arm open, sorted in the nearest private hospital (Huey Keow Road CM).

EXACTLY the same treatment, same number of stitches, different limb.

4,500bht.

Not to mention, the two hospitals were less than 1Km apart.

Government hospital was very happy to get a cash customer through the door.

I have many similar stories, but don't want to bore you.

Edited March 9, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

So unless said Thai national has an EU spouse, to obtain the Schengen visa they will be required to have medical insurance ? Correct ?....so the poster who stated "Thais" (non specfic generalisation) dont need medical insurance for europe is still wrong correct...?

Only if you don't know the difference between 'must' and 'might'.

Not to mention topic is 'uninsured foreigners'.

Most of the foreigners in Thailand are long term residents with no way of joining the local government schemes.

While the Thais in Europe would mostly be covered by the 'free' EU government schemes, if not already citizens.

As expats in Thailand many of us are between a rock and a hard place.

As we get older and out health fails, do we abandon our Thai families and return to the health care of our home countries, or just hope to die quickly.

The UK charges 10,000bht a year for all inclusive health care for those wanting citizenship.

Something not available here at any price. (Citizenship or health care)

Edited March 9, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[Caspersfriend]

If the likes of CIGNA were both affordable and true to the [reasonable] expectations of those who take out a policy 'we' [mostly] could have healthcare cover. Unfortunately the reality is often alarmingly different https://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/cigna_health.html

[Caspersfriend]

The UK charges 10,000bht a year for all inclusive health care for those wanting citizenship.

Something not available here at any price. (Citizenship or health care)

Not challenging you on that as I am sure you have done your own research before posting.

Personally I was unaware of that facility and would appreciate more information.

[Sheryl]

If the likes of CIGNA were both affordable and true to the [reasonable] expectations of those who take out a policy 'we' [mostly] could have healthcare cover. Unfortunately the reality is often alarmingly different https://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/cigna_health.html

This link refers to Cigna US, which has indeed gotten bad reviews.

Cigna Global is entirely different, based out of UK and all the reviews I have heard are favorable. A TV member recently got almost 3 million baht bill for cancer treatment paid by Cigna with no issues on policy renewal.

"Affordable" of course is relative and subjective...but anyone who cannot afford insurance premiums (be it this or any other company) most certainly can't afford to pay a large hospital bill.

[MaeJoMTB]

The UK charges 10,000bht a year for all inclusive health care for those wanting citizenship.

Something not available here at any price. (Citizenship or health care)

Not challenging you on that as I am sure you have done your own research before posting.

Personally I was unaware of that facility and would appreciate more information.

Here,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/792210-uk-nhs-health-surcharge/

[Caspersfriend]

If the likes of CIGNA were both affordable and true to the [reasonable] expectations of those who take out a policy 'we' [mostly] could have healthcare cover. Unfortunately the reality is often alarmingly different https://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/cigna_health.html

This link refers to Cigna US, which has indeed gotten bad reviews.

Cigna Global is entirely different, based out of UK and all the reviews I have heard are favorable. A TV member recently got almost 3 million baht bill for cancer treatment paid by Cigna with no issues on policy renewal.

"Affordable" of course is relative and subjective...but anyone who cannot afford insurance premiums (be it this or any other company) most certainly can't afford to pay a large hospital bill.

My apologies: I was reluctant to post that link as I expected it to possibly take this thread of in a different direction. CIGNAGLOBAL is an umbrella and, in whichever country the name surfaces, they are one and the same; in origin. From a link posted earlier in this thread a number of members [including me out of interest] have succumbed to the "get a quote" opportunity and subsequently been called by [the equivalent of] a 'Time Share' rep! Hard sell -- however we can make a special price for you; until they hear your history of preconditions. A very dear friend of mine had the highest level of cover, he was diagnosed with an advanced case of prostate cancer and all his [enormous] hospital bills were covered, However, [another word for but and there is always a but] whereas he previously paid 50,000 Baht a year his renewal was 50,000 Baht a month. Fact, not here-say, nor fiction.

[Bobotie]

If the likes of CIGNA were both affordable and true to the [reasonable] expectations of those who take out a policy 'we' [mostly] could have healthcare cover. Unfortunately the reality is often alarmingly different https://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/cigna_health.html

This link refers to Cigna US, which has indeed gotten bad reviews.

Cigna Global is entirely different, based out of UK and all the reviews I have heard are favorable. A TV member recently got almost 3 million baht bill for cancer treatment paid by Cigna with no issues on policy renewal.

"Affordable" of course is relative and subjective...but anyone who cannot afford insurance premiums (be it this or any other company) most certainly can't afford to pay a large hospital bill.

My apologies: I was reluctant to post that link as I expected it to possibly take this thread of in a different direction. CIGNAGLOBAL is an umbrella and, in whichever country the name surfaces, they are one and the same; in origin. From a link posted earlier in this thread a number of members [including me out of interest] have succumbed to the "get a quote" opportunity and subsequently been called by [the equivalent of] a 'Time Share' rep! Hard sell -- however we can make a special price for you; until they hear your history of preconditions. A very dear friend of mine had the highest level of cover, he was diagnosed with an advanced case of prostate cancer and all his [enormous] hospital bills were covered, However, [another word for but and there is always a but] whereas he previously paid 50,000 Baht a year his renewal was 50,000 Baht a month. Fact, not here-say, nor fiction.

Unbelievable...an insurance company being reluctant to cover someone for conditions they are already sick with...scandleous

A bit like trying to take out car insurance and making a claim on that policy after you have wrecked the car...insurance companies tend to frown on things like that

[Caspersfriend]

The UK charges 10,000bht a year for all inclusive health care for those wanting citizenship.

Something not available here at any price. (Citizenship or health care)

Not challenging you on that as I am sure you have done your own research before posting.

Personally I was unaware of that facility and would appreciate more information.

Here,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/792210-uk-nhs-health-surcharge/

Exclusion apparently also applies to our Antpodean friends

[jpinx]

If the likes of CIGNA were both affordable and true to the [reasonable] expectations of those who take out a policy 'we' [mostly] could have healthcare cover. Unfortunately the reality is often alarmingly different https://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/cigna_health.html

This link refers to Cigna US, which has indeed gotten bad reviews.

Cigna Global is entirely different, based out of UK and all the reviews I have heard are favorable. A TV member recently got almost 3 million baht bill for cancer treatment paid by Cigna with no issues on policy renewal.

"Affordable" of course is relative and subjective...but anyone who cannot afford insurance premiums (be it this or any other company) most certainly can't afford to pay a large hospital bill.

My apologies: I was reluctant to post that link as I expected it to possibly take this thread of in a different direction. CIGNAGLOBAL is an umbrella and, in whichever country the name surfaces, they are one and the same; in origin. From a link posted earlier in this thread a number of members [including me out of interest] have succumbed to the "get a quote" opportunity and subsequently been called by [the equivalent of] a 'Time Share' rep! Hard sell -- however we can make a special price for you; until they hear your history of preconditions. A very dear friend of mine had the highest level of cover, he was diagnosed with an advanced case of prostate cancer and all his [enormous] hospital bills were covered, However, [another word for but and there is always a but] whereas he previously paid 50,000 Baht a year his renewal was 50,000 Baht a month. Fact, not here-say, nor fiction.

Another option maybe?

https://www.staysure.co.uk/travelinsurance/quote

[Caspersfriend]

If the likes of CIGNA were both affordable and true to the [reasonable] expectations of those who take out a policy 'we' [mostly] could have healthcare cover. Unfortunately the reality is often alarmingly different https://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/cigna_health.html

This link refers to Cigna US, which has indeed gotten bad reviews.

Cigna Global is entirely different, based out of UK and all the reviews I have heard are favorable. A TV member recently got almost 3 million baht bill for cancer treatment paid by Cigna with no issues on policy renewal.

"Affordable" of course is relative and subjective...but anyone who cannot afford insurance premiums (be it this or any other company) most certainly can't afford to pay a large hospital bill.

My apologies: I was reluctant to post that link as I expected it to possibly take this thread of in a different direction. CIGNAGLOBAL is an umbrella and, in whichever country the name surfaces, they are one and the same; in origin. From a link posted earlier in this thread a number of members [including me out of interest] have succumbed to the "get a quote" opportunity and subsequently been called by [the equivalent of] a 'Time Share' rep! Hard sell -- however we can make a special price for you; until they hear your history of preconditions. A very dear friend of mine had the highest level of cover, he was diagnosed with an advanced case of prostate cancer and all his [enormous] hospital bills were covered, However, [another word for but and there is always a but] whereas he previously paid 50,000 Baht a year his renewal was 50,000 Baht a month. Fact, not here-say, nor fiction.

Unbelievable...an insurance company being reluctant to cover someone for conditions they are already sick with...scandleous

A bit like trying to take out car insurance and making a claim on that policy after you have wrecked the car...insurance companies tend to frown on things like that

When, in the case of my friend, someone who has [and the company he worked for before him] been paying their premiums for more than thirty years and [he] never made a claim. "'You' are trying to take out more than you paid in!" we shall denounce you. Hopefully you have your tongue firmly in your cheek.

[arunsakda]

Another reason most of the very rich have insurance is that they get it "free" from the companies they work for or own. Gold-plated "indemnity" plans.

So there's something to aspire to.

Own, or work for, a company that will provide you with gold plated 'indemnity'

Does it get any easier? ?

Yeah it get's easier. In the US the elite managerial class gets what is known as "Gross Up". So when they get say a $10,000,000USD salary that is what they get. Company pays their income taxes. I remember reading about GE former CEO Jack Welch compensation. Included a super lux New York penthouse to use, food, wine, flowers, all paid for.

Only the little people pay taxes.

"Only the little people pay taxes" is a quote attributed to the billionaire Ms. Leona Helmsley who later spent 19 months in US Federal prison after being convicted for tax evasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley#Tax_evasion_conviction

She died in 2007 at age 87 with an estimated net worth of USD 4 billion.

A crazy cxxt to boot! All that dosh and still hid income from IRS? A textbook case of arrogance and stupidity.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Celer et Audax]

I'm pretty certain that even if compulsory health insurance were introduced for all foreign visitors, and that's no small undertaking in itself, the picture concerning foreigners running up hospital bills and not paying, wont change that much. There will always be a percentage of the visiting population that uses fraudulent certificates/policies and or doesn't renew their policy once in country. Perhaps the costs we're seeing currently are as good as they'll ever get, part of the cost of doing business and an overhead that simply has to be absorbed. As Sheryl has pointed out, the logistics associated with all of this are horrendous.

Another viewpoint is, who are the worst offenders, which nationalities? My guess is that Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians represent the largest percentage of foreign nationalities resident in Thailand, after that it's likely to be the Chinese. Those are people that will be working in Thailand earning small amounts of money, trying to impose health insurance on them is almost impossible. This forum is more concerned about the impact of this on westerners I would guess and they I would imagine are way down the list of financial culprits and also as a percentage of total foreigners in country. So, which nut are they trying to crack and what is its shape and size.

Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians who are working legally in Thailand have health care covered/provided.

Anyone working legally here and paying into the social security enjoys the same free health care that the Thai nationals

[balo]

Last year I paid a hospital bill for friend, At deaths door due to

Misdiagnosis ofTB at Govt, Hospital.

Private Hospital, Bangkok/Pattaya Hospital: admitted via ER,

All labs, X-Ray , private room, IV antibiotic, excellent physician and

Nurses, all meals, 5 day stay, discharge medication. B68K. This

Would have cost $12-15,000 in The States. Very inexpensive here.

You paid 68000 baht incl everything for a 5 day stay at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital ? Sorry but I find this hard to believe when the same hospital can charge 25000 for 1 hour to threat stomach sickness. He was in and out within 2 hours.

But if true I agree it's cheap for this hospital, maybe depends on the diagnosis.

Edited March 10, 2016 by balo

[sandyf]

I am 68 years old and can not afford Medical Insurance. Besides, it does not cover any pre-existing things. Seeing as I have already suffered with the majority of ailments, medical insurance is more like Accident Insurance for me. If I had a heart attack or cancer I would not be covered even if I had insurance.

Why not offer a form of medical insurance to expats of any age from a particular hospital? I would feel much better if I knew I could get medical care if I required it. I would gladly pay something REASONABLE for basic coverage.

Ant foreigner must present his passport to rent a car or hotel room or to visit a hospital.Why not hold the passport until some arrangement has been made for reimbursement of the charges?

No one's holding my passport.

Until someone makes you an offer you cannot refuse.

[Bluespunk]

I am 68 years old and can not afford Medical Insurance. Besides, it does not cover any pre-existing things. Seeing as I have already suffered with the majority of ailments, medical insurance is more like Accident Insurance for me. If I had a heart attack or cancer I would not be covered even if I had insurance.

Why not offer a form of medical insurance to expats of any age from a particular hospital? I would feel much better if I knew I could get medical care if I required it. I would gladly pay something REASONABLE for basic coverage.

Ant foreigner must present his passport to rent a car or hotel room or to visit a hospital.Why not hold the passport until some arrangement has been made for reimbursement of the charges?

No one's holding my passport.

Until someone makes you an offer you cannot refuse.

You can always refuse.

[sandyf]

Why do insurance companies not re-imburse patients, rather than paying hospitals direct? They'd save a fortune and premiums would come down,,,,

I had to pay the hospital and claim it back. The hospital were not interested in the insurance.

[sandyf]

Agree Thailand does have a right to protect it's health service.But you are wrong when you state that Thais must have a health insurance policy to enter the EU, certainly not the UK.

To obtain a schengan visa for europe a thai national must have paid up medical insurance for a sum of not less than USD 50k in coverage...so in terms of Europe, you are the one who is wrong

No insurance required for the EU if travelling with an EU spouse.

No insurance required for the UK, spouse or not.

You mean the Schengen Area.

[sandyf]

I am 68 years old and can not afford Medical Insurance. Besides, it does not cover any pre-existing things. Seeing as I have already suffered with the majority of ailments, medical insurance is more like Accident Insurance for me. If I had a heart attack or cancer I would not be covered even if I had insurance.

Why not offer a form of medical insurance to expats of any age from a particular hospital? I would feel much better if I knew I could get medical care if I required it. I would gladly pay something REASONABLE for basic coverage.

Ant foreigner must present his passport to rent a car or hotel room or to visit a hospital.Why not hold the passport until some arrangement has been made for reimbursement of the charges?

No one's holding my passport.

Until someone makes you an offer you cannot refuse.

You can always refuse.

You can also cut off your nose to spite your face.

[Bluespunk]

@sandyf

Nope don't think I'll do that either. Even if I'm in a hospital. Seems like a stupid thing to do. Probably painful too.

No hospital or business has the right to hold your passport and none are going to be holding mine.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Bluespunk