Uninsured foreigners burdens Thai public hospitals

[louse1953]

Not this garbage again ...and how many TRILLIONS of Baht are generated from Tourism...All the gov has to do is take 0.01 percent from the hotel room tax that has been collected for years and it solved ..SIMPLE ...Oh but i forgot thats not the real reason is it .. its about some muppet making billions from selling ALL tourists medical insurance on arrival

It's all about user pays,we will pork barrel at election time with other taxes.I am talking about the west here.This started with Thatcher/Reagan.The rich get richer and the poor get the picture.One day the poor will rise up and take it all back.I am talking the world here,USA,England,Australia,some European countries.What is happening with the mass migration to Europe is a sign of the times.Educated people that can't get jobs see a way out or see the power of the gun.Bad governments have done this to people and the same will happen in the west as long as govts back the big end of town.

[Bobotie]

When I stayed at the BKK HKT Hospital in Phuket a few years ago, they quoted a room price of some 5000 Baht/day. When I told them, that I have to pay from my own pocket not an insurance, the price went down to about 1900. So much about fair prices. Don't wonder why the cost of insurance goes up like crazy.

It's similar to when you need to present proof of insurance in advance (before being treated/admitted) so that they can squeeze up to the limits with crazy fees and medicaton. Blood sucking robbers the whole lot.

The public hospitals are not blood sucking and most times it is the same doctor,public or private.

Having been on private medical insurance all my working life and used private hospitals in a few different countries inclusive of the US and the UK, thai private hospitals are not any bigger blood suckers than private hospitals in other parts of the world and in fact in the blood sucking ranks, they are lower in the ranking table than most US and UK private hospitals in the blood sucking stakes

[louse1953]

Even the 30B Health scheme is not secure. If your ID card is from a different Jangwat..you pay! Tourists of course can run away. I live here and might need to go back to the hospital!!

The 30 baht scheme is broke.

[Bobotie]

Even the 30B Health scheme is not secure. If your ID card is from a different Jangwat..you pay! Tourists of course can run away. I live here and might need to go back to the hospital!!

The 30 baht scheme is broke.

So is the NHS

[Agent Sumo]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

It's the government hospitals that are getting stung . Brush up your reading comprehension. Oh and it isn't the scummy farang's duty to punish private hospitals by running off without paying.

[Bobotie]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

It's the government hospitals that are getting stung . Brush up your reading comprehension. Oh and it isn't the scummy farang's duty to punish private hospitals by running off without paying.

I guess most of the ones complaining about the Thai private hospitals would actually struggle to run...

[Bluespunk]

Uninsured Thais burden the NHS.

No mention here of all the Thais working (legally) and retired (legally) in UK who claim and receive free treatment from the NHS. No reciprocal arrangement? Silly question.

And i suppose you can provide a reputable news link detailing this ?...but take your point on the legally working Thais in the UK, who just happen to pay NI etc and would be entitled to NHS treatment, so yes a reciprocal agreement...how many years you worked in Thailand ? paid your income tax and contributed to the socical security fund ?

As if you did, you would be entitled to subsided medical treatment in Thailand...funny that innit ?

I agree all those Thais ( and other nationalities ) who are paying, or have payed NI in the Uk should be entitled to free treatment by the NHS, the same as all ex-pat Brits who payed into the system. Yet what about those Thais living or studying in the UK who have never payed one penny into the system. They get to use the NHS free of charge, I just wonder if that has ever been costed,could the figure dwarf the amount owed by Brits here in Thailand. Having said that I don't blame the Thais, it's the UK who do not look after their own tax paying citizens.

Unless they are spending no money at all they are playing plenty through the indirect taxation on everything they buy.

[natway09]

I love you Wallys talking about overcharging here.

Go to a private hospital in your country & you will stop complaining immediatly

[Bluespunk]

No Bobotie, I have never worked in Thailand so have never been able to contribute here. However, I would willingly do so if it were possible. Unlike many Thais, married to UK citizens who have never contributed in UK but are still entitled to benefits due to their marriage or long term partnership/residence. I see nothing funny about it at all. thankfully, I have insurance but I do have friends who stay here legally and who, for different reasons are unable to get insurance or complimentary treatment. In my home country, England, nobody in need of treatment is turned away.

In England, my friend, even as a citizen you could still be required to pay for treatment, people die in your utopian England because they are on waiting lists and not receiving the treatment they need, stop misrepresnting what the NHS does and doesnt do...

In England I receive treatment from my GP for no payment. As I am over 60, I receive a prescription for medicines which are supplied by a pharmacy for no payment. If I need hospital treatment, I do not pay. Yes, the NHS is under pressure as there are too many immigrants who have never paid into the system (but that is another story). As a result there are indeed waiting lists but emergencies go straight to the top of the list unless somebody in an office fouls up and doesn't do their job properly. The human factor. I am most definitely not required to pay for treatment in England. You appear to have been misinformed.

The funding problems the NHS has nothing to do with alleged immigrant abuse of the system.

[eaglesflight]

I suppose you maintain a UK address and get your pension increases as well ?...per the rules, if your no longer resident in the UK even as a citizen you could be required to pay for treatment...so it seems you are misinformed...dont believe me...go an look it up

Isn't the salient point people who are resident in the country, not people who aren't - you're just changing the argument as you go along. Give us a link to one single news story about a resident of the UK who died because they didn't have enough money to pay for emergency hospital treatment. In fact, it doesn't matter if they are a resident or not, if you can find one single story about someone being refused emergency medical treatment in the UK because of a lack of funds, I'll eat several of my hats.

Edited March 8, 2016 by eaglesflight

[Balance]

So, TAT has 200 million Bhat fund to reimburse hospitals. The question not answered is if the fund is generated annually from a levy from tourists or something else. Setting that aside, the 187 foreigners that were mentioned ran up an average of 106, 000 each. That would provide reimbursement for about 1,900 people.

The hospitals have been whining about being ripped off by farang for years. If TAT has the money, why aren't they reimbursing the hospitals? I would be interested to know what percentage of all tourists arrive in the country with travel insurance? What are the top five problems that run up the bills? Does the average travel insurance cover the things that tourists do? If the hospitals are overcharging then it makes sense for those without or with not enough go to public hospitals and bad cases can go to the public teaching hospitals.

There are solutions, but no one seems at all interested in actually doing anything. As my wife says, "some time I get bored."

[sunnyjim5]

So, TAT has 200 million Bhat fund to reimburse hospitals. The question not answered is if the fund is generated annually from a levy from tourists or something else. Setting that aside, the 187 foreigners that were mentioned ran up an average of 106, 000 each. That would provide reimbursement for about 1,900 people.

The hospitals have been whining about being ripped off by farang for years. If TAT has the money, why aren't they reimbursing the hospitals? I would be interested to know what percentage of all tourists arrive in the country with travel insurance? What are the top five problems that run up the bills? Does the average travel insurance cover the things that tourists do? If the hospitals are overcharging then it makes sense for those without or with not enough go to public hospitals and bad cases can go to the public teaching hospitals.

There are solutions, but no one seems at all interested in actually doing anything. As my wife says, "some time I get bored."

Why do people continue to claim "hospitals are/maybe are overcharging" without producing any factual evidence?

Overcharging in comparison to what and where ?

I can guarantee that an American Hospital will present an eye watering bill ! Is it being said that Thai hospitals "overcharge" in comparison to US hospitals.

Produce the evidence for Thai hospitals "overcharging" or desist from making the claim

[little mary sunshine]

Last year I paid a hospital bill for friend, At deaths door due to

Misdiagnosis ofTB at Govt, Hospital.

Private Hospital, Bangkok/Pattaya Hospital: admitted via ER,

All labs, X-Ray , private room, IV antibiotic, excellent physician and

Nurses, all meals, 5 day stay, discharge medication. B68K. This

Would have cost $12-15,000 in The States. Very inexpensive here.

[CantSpell]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Yes must be something to do with these Hospitals..

Had an emergence Operation in 2005 they wanted 76,000 baht up front, again another small op last year at a different Hospital [one I have been registered with + visited for some years]

Exactly, hard to believe since most of those hospitals would not let any one go near any emergency room is the patient hasn't produced a proper credit card first...

No card, no treatment seems to be the consensus....

[Bobotie]

I suppose you maintain a UK address and get your pension increases as well ?...per the rules, if your no longer resident in the UK even as a citizen you could be required to pay for treatment...so it seems you are misinformed...dont believe me...go an look it up

Isn't the salient point people who are resident in the country, not people who aren't - you're just changing the argument as you go along. Give us a link to one single news story about a resident of the UK who died because they didn't have enough money to pay for emergency hospital treatment. In fact, it doesn't matter if they are a resident or not, if you can find one single story about someone being refused emergency medical treatment in the UK because of a lack of funds, I'll eat several of my hats.

Nice try ...but no cigar..poor attempt at muddying the waters..Emergency care is not under debate

No one has suggested anything of the sort as regards emergency treatment in the UK or even brought up payment for emergency treatment in the UK, for emergency treatment one will be treated for free in the UK, upto the point of being stabilised, maybe time to renew your free NHS perscription reading glasses...

Further Thailand has similar rules...even a private hospital must stabilise the patient legally and from what i understand without cost

Edited March 8, 2016 by Bobotie

[sandyf]

About 12 years ago i had a bit of an accident in The Sunshine Hotel in Pattaya just before going to bed. In the morning I couldn't move and phoned reception to get a doctor. They called an ambulance and there wasn't any choice it was to Pattaya Memorial. I have to say the service couldn't be faulted, within ten minutes of leaving the hotel I was having an X-ray. Turned out I had broken some ribs and was admitted for a couple of days.

When I came to be discharged they were not interested in my insurance, said I had to settle the bill before I could leave. I didn't have any money on me so I had to surrender my passport to go to the bank. It wasn't just a case of leaving my passport, it was an official form in duplicate and they gave me a copy signed by the hospital.

Considering the treatment I received the bill was very reasonable, in the first 24 hours I was X-ray in bed every 4 hours and then went to X-ray department about 4 times. It was nearly 3 days with 2 nights in private room and including food and all medication the total came to just over 13,000 baht.

[Bobotie]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Yes must be something to do with these Hospitals..

Had an emergence Operation in 2005 they wanted 76,000 baht up front, again another small op last year at a different Hospital [one I have been registered with + visited for some years]

Exactly, hard to believe since most of those hospitals would not let any one go near any emergency room is the patient hasn't produced a proper credit card first...

No card, no treatment seems to be the consensus....

Is this based on personal experience or wot a bloke told you in the bar ?

[Balance]

So, TAT has 200 million Bhat fund to reimburse hospitals. The question not answered is if the fund is generated annually from a levy from tourists or something else. Setting that aside, the 187 foreigners that were mentioned ran up an average of 106, 000 each. That would provide reimbursement for about 1,900 people.

The hospitals have been whining about being ripped off by farang for years. If TAT has the money, why aren't they reimbursing the hospitals? I would be interested to know what percentage of all tourists arrive in the country with travel insurance? What are the top five problems that run up the bills? Does the average travel insurance cover the things that tourists do? If the hospitals are overcharging then it makes sense for those without or with not enough go to public hospitals and bad cases can go to the public teaching hospitals.

There are solutions, but no one seems at all interested in actually doing anything. As my wife says, "some time I get bored."

Why do people continue to claim "hospitals are/maybe are overcharging" without producing any factual evidence?

Overcharging in comparison to what and where ?

I can guarantee that an American Hospital will present an eye watering bill ! Is it being said that Thai hospitals "overcharge" in comparison to US hospitals.

Produce the evidence for Thai hospitals "overcharging" or desist from making the claim

There was a big deal about this about 6-8 months ago. The Ministry of Health did a survey of charges within the private hospitals and compared this data to those of the public teaching hospitals. There was a really big spread for the same services, especially drugs. Then, there were proposals to equalize the charges, and that is where it ended. As far as I can tell, nothing happened.

[sunnyjim5]

About 12 years ago i had a bit of an accident in The Sunshine Hotel in Pattaya just before going to bed. In the morning I couldn't move and phoned reception to get a doctor. They called an ambulance and there wasn't any choice it was to Pattaya Memorial. I have to say the service couldn't be faulted, within ten minutes of leaving the hotel I was having an X-ray. Turned out I had broken some ribs and was admitted for a couple of days.

When I came to be discharged they were not interested in my insurance, said I had to settle the bill before I could leave. I didn't have any money on me so I had to surrender my passport to go to the bank. It wasn't just a case of leaving my passport, it was an official form in duplicate and they gave me a copy signed by the hospital.

Considering the treatment I received the bill was very reasonable, in the first 24 hours I was X-ray in bed every 4 hours and then went to X-ray department about 4 times. It was nearly 3 days with 2 nights in private room and including food and all medication the total came to just over 13,000 baht.

If you really were x-rayed on at least ten occasions during such a short period of time do you now glow in the dark ?

[sandyf]

About 12 years ago i had a bit of an accident in The Sunshine Hotel in Pattaya just before going to bed. In the morning I couldn't move and phoned reception to get a doctor. They called an ambulance and there wasn't any choice it was to Pattaya Memorial. I have to say the service couldn't be faulted, within ten minutes of leaving the hotel I was having an X-ray. Turned out I had broken some ribs and was admitted for a couple of days.

When I came to be discharged they were not interested in my insurance, said I had to settle the bill before I could leave. I didn't have any money on me so I had to surrender my passport to go to the bank. It wasn't just a case of leaving my passport, it was an official form in duplicate and they gave me a copy signed by the hospital.

Considering the treatment I received the bill was very reasonable, in the first 24 hours I was X-ray in bed every 4 hours and then went to X-ray department about 4 times. It was nearly 3 days with 2 nights in private room and including food and all medication the total came to just over 13,000 baht.

If you really were x-rayed on at least ten occasions during such a short period of time do you now glow in the dark ?

There is always a comedian. I have no complaints over the concern regarding lung damage.

[JLCrab]

A lot of this same discussion has been going on for years in the Insurance Forum where I learned that the really smart people don't buy health insurance. I know that they are really smart because they have no problem saying so.

Edited March 8, 2016 by JLCrab

[thaiduncankk]

When making comparisons, why do people bring up America, Britain, Australia etc ?

Of course things are far more expensive in those places, so is the cost of living.

A friend had an operation on an eye here in Khon Kaen. When he consulted the doctor prior to the operation, he was given the price for it to be performed at the General Hospital.

The doctor also told him he could perform the same operation, a couple of weeks earlier, at Bangkok Hospital, Khon Kaen, however, it would cost more than double by going private !

As it was a routine operation, and not life threatening, he waited the few extra weeks, and saved a lot of money.

Now bearing in mind there was no prolonged hospitalisation, who can justify the huge difference in price for the same operation, performed by the exact same doctor ?

[sunnyjim5]

When making comparisons, why do people bring up America, Britain, Australia etc ?

Of course things are far more expensive in those places, so is the cost of living.

A friend had an operation on an eye here in Khon Kaen. When he consulted the doctor prior to the operation, he was given the price for it to be performed at the General Hospital.

The doctor also told him he could perform the same operation, a couple of weeks earlier, at Bangkok Hospital, Khon Kaen, however, it would cost more than double by going private !

As it was a routine operation, and not life threatening, he waited the few extra weeks, and saved a lot of money.

Now bearing in mind there was no prolonged hospitalisation, who can justify the huge difference in price for the same operation, performed by the exact same doctor ?

Attempt to do the same in Aus, UK, America and make sure a fully itemised bill is asked for ----------- You will then get some idea of why costs are higher in the private sector

State health care systems have massive buying power and can purchase drugs, disposables and equipment .at a much lower cost than can a private organisation.

[Thunderbirds20]

I am 68 years old and can not afford Medical Insurance. Besides, it does not cover any pre-existing things. Seeing as I have already suffered with the majority of ailments, medical insurance is more like Accident Insurance for me. If I had a heart attack or cancer I would not be covered even if I had insurance.

Why not offer a form of medical insurance to expats of any age from a particular hospital? I would feel much better if I knew I could get medical care if I required it. I would gladly pay something REASONABLE for basic coverage.

Ant foreigner must present his passport to rent a car or hotel room or to visit a hospital.Why not hold the passport until some arrangement has been made for reimbursement of the charges?

[billd766]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

It's the government hospitals that are getting stung . Brush up your reading comprehension. Oh and it isn't the scummy farang's duty to punish private hospitals by running off without paying.

I guess most of the ones complaining about the Thai private hospitals would actually struggle to run...

Not me. I have a twin turbo,5.5 litre diesel, 8 speed, double clutch, automatic gearbox zimmer frame with a 0 to 100kph time of a little less than 2 weeks. Nobody can catch me if I use that as a getaway vehicle.

Edited March 8, 2016 by billd766

[Bluespunk]

I am 68 years old and can not afford Medical Insurance. Besides, it does not cover any pre-existing things. Seeing as I have already suffered with the majority of ailments, medical insurance is more like Accident Insurance for me. If I had a heart attack or cancer I would not be covered even if I had insurance.

Why not offer a form of medical insurance to expats of any age from a particular hospital? I would feel much better if I knew I could get medical care if I required it. I would gladly pay something REASONABLE for basic coverage.

Ant foreigner must present his passport to rent a car or hotel room or to visit a hospital.Why not hold the passport until some arrangement has been made for reimbursement of the charges?

No one's holding my passport.

[pogal]

While I agree that foreigners should have compulsory travel insurance, a million baht is a drop in the ocean to them. The government should allow retirees to acquire Government Health insurance which has no conditions or limits (although the service can be slow, and not nearly as good as private) it would at least offer those on tight budgets to participate in a legal and financial way.

BUT what has not been reported are things like the government not paying their bills on time for social insurance. A few hospitals have opted out of the Social Insurance schemes because of very late payments by the government costing them millions of baht! The most recent is Camillian Hospital in Tong-Lor which now does not accept BAKAN SANDKOM (Government insurance) because of this very fact of late payments by the government (reimbursement).
It's quite a concern since possibly more hospitals may soon opt out leaving the cheap government health insurance disarray.
Report that!

[DrDave]

When I stayed at the BKK HKT Hospital in Phuket a few years ago, they quoted a room price of some 5000 Baht/day. When I told them, that I have to pay from my own pocket not an insurance, the price went down to about 1900. So much about fair prices. Don't wonder why the cost of insurance goes up like crazy.

Bangkok Hospital Phuket offers a free expat privilege card, that among other discounts provides a 50% discount on the room for customers paying cash. Just go to the reception desk and complete an application form for the card.

[jpinx]

When I stayed at the BKK HKT Hospital in Phuket a few years ago, they quoted a room price of some 5000 Baht/day. When I told them, that I have to pay from my own pocket not an insurance, the price went down to about 1900. So much about fair prices. Don't wonder why the cost of insurance goes up like crazy.

Bangkok Hospital Phuket offers a free expat privilege card, that among other discounts provides a 50% discount on the room for customers paying cash. Just go to the reception desk and complete an application form for the card.

Which is nice to know, but kinda proves that their "standard" price is double, to cover the non-payers

[little mary sunshine]

Hospitals like,all medical fields are a BUSINESS. They

Always bill more to the Insurance companies to compensate

For those that are unable to pay. The Insurance companies

Then argue and pay what they approve...like a game.