Uninsured foreigners burdens Thai public hospitals

[elgordo38]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Yes they want the tourist bahts but not the baggage that might go with it. They love you here as long as you spend money and then go home but if things reverse and you need medical attention well thats where things change and fast. They have so many surcharges now why not just add 100 baht per person medical charge. Rather than sit there moaning in the media just add another small fee. From what I can see its only a few million baht they are out so what is the big deal. 30 million times 100 extra bahts should give them lots of money to play with. The LOS is fast becoming the LOM or LOF

[elgordo38]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Yes and thats the part they hate to talk about.

[chrisdodd]

This old chestnut again?

So they had 20 million baht of unpaid bills over an 8 year period, versus how many trillion baht of revenue from tourism?

Suck it up Thailand. Do the right thing, go after the deadbeats, but do not try imposing more restrictions on the rest of us.

Correct !!!!!

[alfieconn]

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

Love the logic! made me laugh

Here's the thing -- you have a decent enough "reserve" and you also have income, so why not release the reserve, pay the premiums and have money for enjoying life? No need to end up viewing the Solent through bars.

There's a pretty fair chance that I may not even have to spend any of that money, in which case it goes to my heirs hence no point throwing it away on a what if basis if I don't have to.

And anyway, I like the Solent, it's a lovely spot.

What chance is that then 10% 30% 70% have you done any research on the stats ? i would imagine that the Health Insurance companies have hence the the high premiums they charge as people get older.

Edited March 7, 2016 by alfieconn

[chiang mai]

You talk about overcharging but I'm not sure they do, if they do, compared to where, other hospitals in Thailand or other parts of the Western world? I had a PCI eight years ago, a balloon and cardiac stent at Bumrungrad of all places, it cost me 175,000 baht, the Squires Group in the UK wanted 14,000 POUNDS plus travel plus hotel plus plus.

Last year my wife had her gall bladder removed at the Provincial Hospital but as a private patient, it cost 16,000 baht.

I've had MRI's done on a walk in basis that have cost 10/12k baht, had an endoscopy/gastroscopy done at a private hospital and it cost 2,000 baht.

Those things are not expensive or does everyone else think they are?

[mankondang]

Have seen many posts on TV relating to farang tourist who required financial assistance after being hospitalised, but "forgot" to take insurance out hence can not pay. So who actually ends up making up for this ?

[djayz]

This old chestnut again?

So they had 20 million baht of unpaid bills over an 8 year period, versus how many trillion baht of revenue from tourism?

Suck it up Thailand. Do the right thing, go after the deadbeats, but do not try imposing more restrictions on the rest of us.

+1 Well said! Go after the people who owe the money and leave the rest of us alone.

[jpinx]

You did not research very thoroughly, or perhaps limited yourself to Thai companies. A number of international companies will insure well past 65, some even at age 100.

Statement about pre-existing is also not true of all companies. Many will cover in full if the condition has been stable for several years. others will insure for just "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisitng conditions. And often exclusions will be dropped if no related claims in the first few years.

As for what is considered related to a pre-existing condition, that varies with the underwriter and company. In my experience European based insurers are quite reasonable. Someone with simple hypertension, for example, will not have heart conditions or stroke excluded, and even direct complications of the hypertension will not be excluded if it has well controlled for say 2 years prior to getting the policy. But it does depend on the company.

The services of a broker in navigating all this are very helpful.

To say, "did not research very thoroughly..." is completely incorrect .

The Co's were not Thai, but several international brokers, European & US Health Ins. Co's.

To clarify, I'm referring to Health Insurance, not travel insurance,as travel insurance can be more lenient dependant on travel involved .

Maybe you've had different experience, I'm relating what occurred & can assure you, pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers.

No way will stroke or heart be covered if have hyper-tension, just nonsense.

Factually incorrect. I have a quote and I have declared the pre-existing conditions and and they are covered if no treatment required within 5 years. The details were confirmed by email, not only the online form....

Just as you've had an Ok acceptance,simply put an opposite experience; not factually incorrect as you put it.

Good luck, hope you don't have any re-occurrences of prior illnesses; the test will be when make a claim!!

Well -- not wishing to be pedantic --- but,,, you said "....pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers." and that looks like you're stating a fact

The real nub of the issue is in your last comment .... "... the test will be when make a claim!! " So it becomes abundantly clear that the issue many folks have is trust in the insurance contract.

[chiang mai]

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

Love the logic! made me laugh

Here's the thing -- you have a decent enough "reserve" and you also have income, so why not release the reserve, pay the premiums and have money for enjoying life? No need to end up viewing the Solent through bars.

There's a pretty fair chance that I may not even have to spend any of that money, in which case it goes to my heirs hence no point throwing it away on a what if basis if I don't have to.

And anyway, I like the Solent, it's a lovely spot.

What chance is that then 10% 30% 70% have you done any research on the stats ? i would imagine that the Health Insurance companies have hence the the high premiums they charge as people get older.

Give it a rest Alfred, if you want somebody to argue with, get married or something!

[Pepper1959]

Just like many countries have a departure tax which is automatically added to your ticket, maybe it is time there is a mandatory travel insurance added as well. I know there are problems with the idea, like company/government, cost, what to cover etc, but it must be better than the present situation. If countries cannot implement reciprocal medical arrangements as some do have in place then it is better than nothing. Or, as a previous comment mentioned, ban people at the borders if they cannot demonstrate they have insurance, just like having a visa. Hit the border, no insurance, well buy it there or no entry.

[elgordo38]

Just a matter of time before the government runs off more retirees by requiring that they have insurance that would wipe out a third of some monthly incomes. Universal coverage is the answer but no one is asking the question.

If your a retiree and get sick your a liability even though you spend money here and support others. Universal coverage is a good idea and was in force for a brief period of time till the government yanked it away. Its also the reason for many elderly suicides here as there is just no hope if you get a catastrophic illness. They want you here if your healthy and have money but even then the immigration system is a mess here in Chiang Mai and getting worse as more expats settle here. Yes the system smiles at you as long as you can pay if not well you know the answer. If perchance you do not know the answer there are many love it or leave it keyboard kings that will fill you in.

[Evolare]

Well if the insurance is insufficient then it is because the hospital is overcharging or the insurance companies are selling bad insurances. My insurance covers up to 20.000.000 baht which should be enough I think if I get sick (^^)

[NotThatGuy]

You want everyone to have "Valid travel insurance"? It's not that expensive here. I went to a their hospitals and the bills were 10,000 TOPS. That's $300 USA. I can't imagine they do surgery without proper downpayment... Plus most hospitals here are as good as a voodoo doctor. Antibiotics for gunshot wounds and all.

[JLCrab]

Real tourists who intend to stay here for up to 2-3 months should not be allowed to travel without an insurance .

A simple check could be done at the airport , no insurance and you're not allowed to enter the plane.

For the rest of us living here without insurance, stupidity comes first in my mind.

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Give the guy a break -- he's a walking Pharmacopoeia and most likely couldn't buy insurance even if he wanted to unless they excluded everything.

Edited March 7, 2016 by JLCrab

[Mr Money Bags]

I recently obtained a Tourist Visa for my upcoming trip to Belarus. One of the many conditions was evidence of travel insurance coverage within Belarus.

Perhaps other countries should follow suit......

You're Welcome!!

[Rorri]

Guys, give it up with the bickering, it's only approx. US$65,000/year, for all of Thailand, Thailand can afford it, considering how much tourists bring in... geez, grow up.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a reply.

[johnhw]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Sometimes the tunnel-vision, singltracked rationalizing and stonewalling that's the norm on these strings reaches new hights. Who's to blame for the expense of treating uninsured farangs? Why, greedy Thai hospitals, of course.

I'll add this one to my unforgettable list, next to the "irresponsible" Thai parents who force their kids to ride on their motorcycle 'cause they're to cheap to buy a new Beemer SUV like I would (to drive my .08 children and gear to their hockey game.)

Damn, it's getting more and more embarrassing to be a farang the more I read this convoluted, self-serving crap.

[alfieconn]

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

Love the logic! made me laugh

Here's the thing -- you have a decent enough "reserve" and you also have income, so why not release the reserve, pay the premiums and have money for enjoying life? No need to end up viewing the Solent through bars.

There's a pretty fair chance that I may not even have to spend any of that money, in which case it goes to my heirs hence no point throwing it away on a what if basis if I don't have to.

And anyway, I like the Solent, it's a lovely spot.

What chance is that then 10% 30% 70% have you done any research on the stats ? i would imagine that the Health Insurance companies have hence the the high premiums they charge as people get older.

Give it a rest Alfred, if you want somebody to argue with, get married or something!

Argue, you made a statement and i was just wondering what you based that statement on ? anyway i suppose your "Give it a rest Alfred" means that you don't have a clue about the chances

[jpinx]

I recently obtained a Tourist Visa for my upcoming trip to Belarus. One of the many conditions was evidence of travel insurance coverage within Belarus.

Perhaps other countries should follow suit......

You're Welcome!!

Travel insurance is short term usually. The issue of "proving" that you have insurance is tricky. Anyone can copy an old policy, change the dates and print it anew. How will the inspecting immigration officer check it?

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Make it mandatory for tourist and long stay foreigners to have insurance. No insurance no visa. Sounds reasonable to me. Its just bad of all those foreigners skipping on their hospital bills.

Maybe the government can set up an insurance for foreigners, if not too bad. I am insured.. sure its expensive but at least I have a peace of mind.

In previous topics all the older foreigners are moaning because the premium is so high, that bad for them (and me in future) but not a reason to let the Thai taxpayer pay the bill for their hospital costs. No insurance.. no visa.

And what if I and others want to self insure instead of lining the pockets of the insurance companies?

Then you must put B 5 million into a fixed savings account and provide them with proof.

[uptheos]

I always wondered what happened if you couldn't pay your bill..........enlightening.

[swerver]

The cost of doing business,the charges they levy,will cover any shortfall

when people don't pay their bills, I am sure, If the Government forces

retirees to have health insurance,while it is virtually impossible or horrendously

expensive to get cover over 70 years of age, that will effect a lot of people here.

regards Worgeordie

Worgeordie,

you hit the nail right on the head.

Up to your post they all bitch about PRIVATE hospitals totaling missing the point that the discussion is about GOVERNMENT hospitals which by Thai law must take care of people in medical needs, Thais as well as foreigners in this case predominantly foreign TOURISTS.

Practically all foreigners I know living in retirement in Thailand take care of their medical bills either by themselves or insurance they have.

Talking about insurance, like you say Worgeordie when you are seventy (70) and past the medical insurance industry will NOT insure you - talking from experience at going on 90.

As for the tourists entering Thailand Thai Gov. should install same as with motor vehicles the UNINSURED motorist insurance. If you don't have verification of UNINSURED motorist you CANNOT register your motor vehicle. end of story.

This UNINSURED motorist pays only medical / hospital bills. It is so successful that over the years the premium has been reduced a couple of times. The other day when renewing my class 1 Insurance I had to pay Bt. 645 incl. tax for the one-year UNINSURED motorist insurance. This system is so successful that on the end of each fiscal year it still had money in the UNINSURED motorist account after having paid all the bills for the year.

This same type system can be installed at TOURIST point of entry when getting the immigration to stamp the tourist's passport. If a tourist cannot afford the five or six hundred bath s/he doesn't deserve to vacation in Thailand.

Now lets see if the Thai Gov. acts on this suggestion, you keep track of it Worgeordie because your name I see in every TBF.

Edited March 7, 2016 by swerver

[alfieconn]

I always wondered what happened if you couldn't pay your bill..........enlightening.

Don't get any ideas ups

[uptheos]

I always wondered what happened if you couldn't pay your bill..........enlightening.

Don't get any ideas ups

[Tolley]

This old chestnut again?

So they had 20 million baht of unpaid bills over an 8 year period, versus how many trillion baht of revenue from tourism?

Suck it up Thailand. Do the right thing, go after the deadbeats, but do not try imposing more restrictions on the rest of us.

+1 Well said! Go after the people who owe the money and leave the rest of us alone.

Such a trivial amount of money over an eight year period.

Are they having a laff?

It does shine a light thou on the mentality of a lot of Thais who come across as small minded, petty ,miserly xenophobes.

[eggers]

... Researched possible cover & all refused to insure after 65.

Plus, if had any prior serious illness, i.e. heart, cancer, irrespective of time or no ongoing problem, you won't be covered for any illness slightly related to the original illness...

You did not research very thoroughly, or perhaps limited yourself to Thai companies. A number of international companies will insure well past 65, some even at age 100.

Statement about pre-existing is also not true of all companies. Many will cover in full if the condition has been stable for several years. others will insure for just "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisitng conditions. And often exclusions will be dropped if no related claims in the first few years.

As for what is considered related to a pre-existing condition, that varies with the underwriter and company. In my experience European based insurers are quite reasonable. Someone with simple hypertension, for example, will not have heart conditions or stroke excluded, and even direct complications of the hypertension will not be excluded if it has well controlled for say 2 years prior to getting the policy. But it does depend on the company.

The services of a broker in navigating all this are very helpful.

To say, "did not research very thoroughly..." is completely incorrect .

The Co's were not Thai, but several international brokers, European & US Health Ins. Co's.

To clarify, I'm referring to Health Insurance, not travel insurance,as travel insurance can be more lenient dependant on travel involved .

Maybe you've had different experience, I'm relating what occurred & can assure you, pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers.

No way will stroke or heart be covered if have hyper-tension, just nonsense.

Well -- not wishing to be pedantic --- but,,, you said "....pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers." and that looks like you're stating a fact

The real nub of the issue is in your last comment .... "... the test will be when make a claim!! " So it becomes abundantly clear that the issue many folks have is trust in the insurance contract.

You seem confused; was stating fact re: my experience with insurers. Yours was different. Very true, the nub is when you come to make a claim, see if payout w/o qualm or find a "loophole"??

[Arkady]

Just allow foreigner's to participate in the country's 30 baht medical universal coverage program by paying a fair fee. Most Thai's don't pay any income taxes and therefore don't provide funds to pay for govt services such as the free health care provides under the 30 baht program...as least a farang would be paying the fee which is more than a Thai pays.

There is a scheme to provide migrant workers with healthcare which is a necessary as leaving their ailments untreated is a threat to Thais and to employers. I think the workers are in the social security scheme adn their non-working families are in the Universal scheme. I agree some form of paid for insurance linked to public hospitals is a good idea. The EU requires visa applicants to have health insurance. So why not require foreigners applying for visas to have it too? Requiring it from visitors coming on transit visas is impractical, as it would create queues at Immigration but no reason not to promote it and sell it at counters in airport arrival halls. Getting widespread sales to people who don't claim would be important to keep the costs down.

[biplanebluey]

Just allow foreigner's to participate in the country's 30 baht medical universal coverage program by paying a fair fee. Most Thai's don't pay any income taxes and therefore don't provide funds to pay for govt services such as the free health care provides under the 30 baht program...as least a farang would be paying the fee which is more than a Thai pays.

I am 79 and am in the 30 bt scheme-------- never had to use it but according to you we (Farangs ) are not entitled---------------- Am I wasting my money ?????????

[cat handler]

First question that should be asked when a patient arrives at Hospital "do you have insurance", if they don't refuse to allow them in until their consulate guarantees to pay the bill. These scum without insurance will end up making the rest of us pay extra to enter Thailand.