Uninsured foreigners burdens Thai public hospitals

[amerasianex]

That's the mostvassnine thing I've ever heard. You have any idea how much tax one visitor pays coming to Thailand? One visitor pays about 20 years worth of taxes on a two week visit. Crazy. And when they go to the hospital it's usually because they are dead. How much does that cost?

[rayw]

Government hospitals charge a fraction of the extortionate private hospitals, I use them, and never fail to pay the final bill.

Why doesn't the Government, or a company within Thailand, introduce an insurance for people restricted to using public hospitals only ?

I am sure the premiums would be a lot more affordable for people here.

With regards to making it compulsory for arrivals to have insurance, this would be impossible to police. With modern technology, it is not rocket science to forge a bill head,from an overseas insurance company, quoting a blag policy number, indicating that the person is insured. Proving that every document people show on arriving is genuine would be impossible.

Well with most insurance policies depending on your plans level of cover, there is a limit for any one illness treatment. So if you go to an expensive private hospital then expect that limit to soon be exceeded and you will get the bill for the excess, or portion of the excess, of course. So go to a state hospital and your insurance is more likely to fully cover your treatment.

Also insurance companies have the right on most policies to move you from a private hospital to a state hospital private ward if the hospitalisation is going to exceed more than a few days.

When I moved to Thailand as a retiree in 2003, within one week I made a point to take out a medical insurance plan with a well know reliable company who have served me well for 13 years now. As I took out my first insurance plan with them before I was 60 then they guarantee to continue cover for me until I finally peg it. I am 70 years old now so the premiums will start to rise next year though up to now only inflation rises and premium banding rises every 5 years. There are various levels of cover at vastly different annual premiums and with my plan I can even pay monthly in arrears and all interest free which is a great help. Nothing but praise for my BC/BUPA insurance plan, they are most helpful and accommodating when the need arises, and of course there are alternatives available too.

Personally I think anyone coming to live in Thailand is plain idiotic not to ensure they have adequate health insurance cover, it is an essential part of your cost of living here. Same with tourists they really must have suitable travel insurance cover for any hospitalisation.

Edited March 7, 2016 by rayw

[sunnyjim5]

That's the mostvassnine thing I've ever heard. You have any idea how much tax one visitor pays coming to Thailand? One visitor pays about 20 years worth of taxes on a two week visit. Crazy. And when they go to the hospital it's usually because they are dead. How much does that cost?

I have read some "Crazy" statements here on TVF but this one, "One visitor pays about 20 years worth of taxes on a two week visit", is obviously barking !

[billd766]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

Try it again using the age of 71 and see the difference.

[superal]

Government hospitals charge a fraction of the extortionate private hospitals, I use them, and never fail to pay the final bill.

Why doesn't the Government, or a company within Thailand, introduce an insurance for people restricted to using public hospitals only ?

I am sure the premiums would be a lot more affordable for people here.

With regards to making it compulsory for arrivals to have insurance, this would be impossible to police. With modern technology, it is not rocket science to forge a bill head,from an overseas insurance company, quoting a blag policy number, indicating that the person is insured. Proving that every document people show on arriving is genuine would be impossible.

Computing systems make matters like this straight forward . To issue an insurance policy the ins; company will be registered with the Thai immigration . The bona fide ins; co; enter the insured details including pp number on the Thai Immigration computing ins; programme .Thai airport Immigration would be then able to simply scan or enter your pp number which would then show up on their screen in seconds .

Personally I always take out travel insurance and would never travel without it as the repercussions money wise can be a disaster if you are unfortunate to be taken seriously ill . For sure I don't like paying the ins; premiums but that could end up being miniscule compared to Thai hospital bills . Just got to factor in to your costs = peace of mind .

[biplanebluey]

Just allow foreigner's to participate in the country's 30 baht medical universal coverage program by paying a fair fee. Most Thai's don't pay any income taxes and therefore don't provide funds to pay for govt services such as the free health care provides under the 30 baht program...as least a farang would be paying the fee which is more than a Thai pays.

I am 79 and am in the 30 bt scheme-------- never had to use it but according to you we (Farangs ) are not entitled---------------- Am I wasting my money ?????????

You must be married to someone who works for the Government, if not, you will find that the card has expired, and not renewable.

And when they were issued, the total cost was 2,800 baht, inclusive of a compulsory medical.

OK I will certainly look into it but I only joined 3 months ago and have a brand new card

[Brer Fox]

I am one of those morons you speak of. I principally live in Vietnam but I have a bolthole condo in BKK. I bounce around between the two countries but primarily come to BKK to do Vietnamese visa runs and I stay for about 10 - 14 days at a time. I don't ride a motor bike, I don't sit on bar stools until I fall off. I don't entertain; I just live quietly in the burbs of outer BKK by myself. I just get about my own business quietly and gently in my own area and travel about on public suburban buses. I go to a public hospital every three months to see my cardiologist and the fee is usually about US $100 per visit. Why am I supposed to pay insurance Mr Smartass?

[biplanebluey]

The cost of doing business,the charges they levy,will cover any shortfall

when people don't pay their bills, I am sure, If the Government forces

retirees to have health insurance,while it is virtually impossible or horrendously

expensive to get cover over 70 years of age, that will effect a lot of people here.

regards Worgeordie

This is true! I was married to a Thai nurse and therefore did not need health insurance. (I didn't burden the hospitals at all and in 18 years used their services just once). However, I was 71 when we divorced and now cannot get insurance within my income. If it does become a requirement, and there is no offered solution, then obviously I won't meet extension of stay requirements. No doubt there are others here with similar experience.

Yep----- I am one of those------ 79 and non insurable even though I have not seen the inside of a hospital for 8 yrs and that was only for a 2 day(night) stay.If I cannot meet the retirement req then i will seriously consider jumping off a high building------ what's the alternative?

[sunnyjim5]

I am one of those morons you speak of. I principally live in Vietnam but I have a bolthole condo in BKK. I bounce around between the two countries but primarily come to BKK to do Vietnamese visa runs and I stay for about 10 - 14 days at a time. I don't ride a motor bike, I don't sit on bar stools until I fall off. I don't entertain; I just live quietly in the burbs of outer BKK by myself. I just get about my own business quietly and gently in my own area and travel about on public suburban buses. I go to a public hospital every three months to see my cardiologist and the fee is usually about US $100 per visit. Why am I supposed to pay insurance Mr Smartass?

Let us hope you never require any major cardiac intervention like a CABG or Stenting because you will then discover why "Mr Smartass"(sic) believes you should have insurance.

[Hawk]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Are you suggesting that if the hospital halved the cost that it would be paid??

I was simply stating a fact.

[billd766]

You're over 65 and it's a first time policy. No underwriter wants this business, that's why it's so expensive. You're lucky to get a quote in the first place.

No, it is so expensive because he opted for the most expensive policy covering everything included OPD, which is unnecessary, and did not opt for even a minimal deductible or copay.

Either he did not understand the options and much about how insurance works, or was wanting it to come out ridiculously high so as to reinforce a preconceived belief and justify remaining uninsured.

It was me, Sheryl that said that.

Actually I took it as face value from what was on the screen at that time.

No, I didn't understand all the options at the time but several hours later an agent from Cigna called me from Scotland and said that the premiums could be reduced if I agreed to this and that.

However when I mentioned that 10 years ago I had an operation to put 2 stents into my arteries he said that was an existing pre-condition and they would most probably decline to insure me and so the conversation quietly died.

I also omitted to mention that I was on medication (4 pills a day).

I didn't get around to telling him that I also had an arthroscopy on my left knee back in 1995 which would have been another black mark against me.

If I had told him everything he might have needed to go to the hospital on Scotland to get over the shock.

Edited March 7, 2016 by billd766

[Roomuck]

That's the mostvassnine thing I've ever heard. You have any idea how much tax one visitor pays coming to Thailand? One visitor pays about 20 years worth of taxes on a two week visit. Crazy. And when they go to the hospital it's usually because they are dead. How much does that cost?

I have read some "Crazy" statements here on TVF but this one, "One visitor pays about 20 years worth of taxes on a two week visit", is obviously barking !

Barking mad? 30,000,000 tourists per year paying 20 years of tax = 600,000,000 "worth" of taxes. No wonder the 66 odd million Thais are so happy.

Next we will hear that you can't buy pork in Germany because the Muslims have banned it, all Thais should speak English and Thai hospitals should provide all uninsured farangs with free health care!

Oh, ok, righto then.

[Hawk]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Not true. We're talking public hospitals here, which are cheap as chips.

Solid gold chips?

[Brian Thomas Scott]

"https://www.phuketga...9225#ad-image-0

From 3 years ago mind, so might have stopped this now..."

A clickbait article designed to appeal to whining "farang".

If they think they can get care at the one of the private hospitals on Phuket for the same or lower cost they should know what to do.

If they want 30 Bht healthcare they will be right out of luck ! I fully support the Government hospitals charging foreigners a cost which will cover their expenses+. The 30 Bht scheme is intended to provide universal health cover to people earning 300 Bht a day.

If the "farang" does not like the health care options/costs in Thailand they had best return home where many will be forced to pay a great deal more.

Said by a very glib,selfish Farang. Wait until you are old my friend, and then see how you feel!!!!!

[sawadee1947]

This is already a very old debate and has been covered many times in TV. The issue at hand in the quoted instances is that fact that the hospitals overcharge and apply inappropriate treatments in many cases. Go to a government hospital and the bill will usually be reasonable.

I agree - partly.

First of all I did not know that those named hospitals have to take all patients, no matter if they have money or insurance.

So far a good thing.

Second: it will lead to the point that ball foreigners/retirees in particular have to have an insurance. If it is based on Thai rates it will be ok. If we would have to pay the double it's just ok. But it it comes to triple....it's time to think where the exit is (not exitus). Costa Rica will charge us not more than 200 USD........

[nontabury]

...or Thailand should get a free NHS service like U.K.

what 'free' NHS service? you mean the 'free' service all Brits pay into all their working lives???

Is it true a Brit ex-pat who may have paid NI for 40+ yrs, on visiting the UK and taken ill is expected to pay the full cost plus an extra 50%?

[pbeieio]

Easy - every inbound visitor must prove that he/she has valid medical insurance before being allowed entry.

And every Thai should produce Car or Motorcycle Insurance before they can drive ?????

PIGS FLY!!!!

[sunnyjim5]

"https://www.phuketga...9225#ad-image-0

From 3 years ago mind, so might have stopped this now..."

A clickbait article designed to appeal to whining "farang".

If they think they can get care at the one of the private hospitals on Phuket for the same or lower cost they should know what to do.

If they want 30 Bht healthcare they will be right out of luck ! I fully support the Government hospitals charging foreigners a cost which will cover their expenses+. The 30 Bht scheme is intended to provide universal health cover to people earning 300 Bht a day.

If the "farang" does not like the health care options/costs in Thailand they had best return home where many will be forced to pay a great deal more.

Said by a very glib,selfish Farang. Wait until you are old my friend, and then see how you feel!!!!!

What a very rude response.

I am not a "Farang" But -------------

Just for your information I am "old" and insured

[Time Traveller]

Easy - every inbound visitor must prove that he/she has valid medical insurance before being allowed entry.

If you don't know what compulsory medical insurance looks like then look at America- outrageously expensive. Hospitals will charge whatever they like. Then everyone's insurance costs will rise. And get this, for most people they never get back even close to what they pay their insurer. That's insurance companies stay in business making profits each year.

[robblok]

And what if I and others want to self insure instead of lining the pockets of the insurance companies?

Let them deposit a million bt on a locked account or something like that. There should be some guarantees at least.

But we already provide a guarantee of 800,000 baht a year, you want another 1 million on top of that?

The 800,000 can be removed from an account as soon as the extension has been approved. It "guarantees" nothing !

Yes it CAN be removed but it has to be replaced the following year when the visa extension is requested, effectively that 800k is locked otherwise the expat retiree doesn't get his visa extended and has to give up his home, his family and his life in Thailand go else where, that's "locked" by any other name. I agree however that the situations with Americans simply saying they have the 800k is one that needs to be addressed since the rest of us actually have to show the money in an account in Thailand.

You probably should get your facts straight before you tear into a tearful jealous rant about Americans. Americans most certainly do need to prove the money is in the bank if using the lump-sum 800,000 baht for three months method, same as everybody else. If using the income method, they have to swear before a consular employee, which if done falsely is a Federal offense, with rather serious consequences.

I'm not saying no one lies, but I'll wager they do in no greater proportion than non-Americans use a dodgy visa service, who loans them the 800,000 baht (and pays off an IO to look the other way).

Just because your little excrementitious island is blanketed with video cameras, doesn't mean your countrymen are honest, does it? It just means the government knows you're a pack of thieves...

The US, rightly or not, expects its citizens to do the right thing...

So tired of little pipsqueaks taking gratuitous shots at America. And that goes for you, too, Roblock...

I don't really care what your tired about .. you can't even spell my name right.

Fact is the American system is open to abuse as you only have to swear nothing more no further proof. If people call that US bashing then they really are thin skinned. People are only honest if they are checked its human nature.

But i stand corrected on the fact of the 800.000 I thought they could swear for that one too.

[sunnyjim5]

Robblock

Ignore the American who clearly has been infected with "Donald-Itis" an incurable condition which makes all them vulnerable to ridicule

[Bobotie]

Make it mandatory for tourist and long stay foreigners to have insurance. No insurance no visa. Sounds reasonable to me. Its just bad of all those foreigners skipping on their hospital bills.

Maybe the government can set up an insurance for foreigners, if not too bad. I am insured.. sure its expensive but at least I have a peace of mind.

In previous topics all the older foreigners are moaning because the premium is so high, that bad for them (and me in future) but not a reason to let the Thai taxpayer pay the bill for their hospital costs. No insurance.. no visa.

And what if I and others want to self insure instead of lining the pockets of the insurance companies?

Let them deposit a million bt on a locked account or something like that. There should be some guarantees at least.

But we already provide a guarantee of 800,000 baht a year, you want another 1 million on top of that?

The thb 800k a year is not a gurantee, it proves you have sufficent funds to pay for living expenses for the year and he person has full access to the money, its not lodged as a guarantee or bond for anything...

[Bobotie]

Make it mandatory for tourist and long stay foreigners to have insurance. No insurance no visa. Sounds reasonable to me. Its just bad of all those foreigners skipping on their hospital bills.

Maybe the government can set up an insurance for foreigners, if not too bad. I am insured.. sure its expensive but at least I have a peace of mind.

In previous topics all the older foreigners are moaning because the premium is so high, that bad for them (and me in future) but not a reason to let the Thai taxpayer pay the bill for their hospital costs. No insurance.. no visa.

And what if I and others want to self insure instead of lining the pockets of the insurance companies?

Let them deposit a million bt on a locked account or something like that. There should be some guarantees at least.

But we already provide a guarantee of 800,000 baht a year, you want another 1 million on top of that?

The thb 800k a year is not a gurantee, it proves you have sufficent funds to pay for living expenses for the year and he person has full access to the money, its not lodged as a guarantee or bond for anything...

[gyrosman]

Yet, next time a foreigner uses DHSH services in America when 10 family members get free health care, oh ! and guess what 43% are Asian. Who do we bill

( their government ).

[Autonuaq]

Tourisme brings al lot for the country. That they forget to tell.

Also forget that this a general problem around the world with hospitals.

Probably it compensates the thia expenses made abraod. Many Thai abroad create the same situation so probalby this compensates?

Not wise to go underinsured or uninsured.

Supposed to be included in the travel bookings.

For migrants many countries have special insurances for the waitng time to be accepted. why not for this too?

[Nigeone]

Travel insurance or health insurance ? Travel insurance policies( of UK origin) are normally restricted to periods of no more than 30 days. Health insurance, setting aside the prohibitive cost for older age groups and the restrictions on pre existing medical conditions, is generally sold as an annual policy. There is no suitable product for those who come here for periods of more than 30 days but don't reside here on a permanent basis

There are a number of companies that will issue travel insurance for periods longer than that.

World Nomads will insure for up to one year, so will many others - including AXA UK

BUPA UK's single trip policy covers up to 91 ays

Stays urge in the UK will also do up to 90 days but struggle to get anything over that time. I had the Staysure policy before and bike riding is excluded along with other high risk activities. The cheapest option is to get a gold account with a bank..Maybe £ 15 a month and has full cover as long as you pay for the travel tickets etc through your bank account or debit card. Well worth it. This will cover you for the year if necessary but READ the small print !!

[Ulic]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

I have used the public hospital in Patong several times, x-rays, stitches and stuff. It was

so cheap I was embarrassed. I threw in an extra thousand baht each time into the

donation box. And I am a bit of a frugal-parsimonious guy. Not a cheap Charlie but

I like value. Very happy with the service I got there. Now the private hospitals, they

were a different matter. Great, but expensive. Not USA expensive but Europe/Canada

expensive.

[Anon999]

This is already a very old debate and has been covered many times in TV. The issue at hand in the quoted instances is that fact that the hospitals overcharge and apply inappropriate treatments in many cases. Go to a government hospital and the bill will usually be reasonable.

Strangely enough the headline quotes Public Hospitals NOT Private hospitals. Don't you bother to read anything?

[Bobotie]

I always figured that my Bt 800,000 VISA qualification money was to cover any debts I incurred while in the Kingdom. Why should I have to have insurance + Bt 800,000 in the bank?? If they want to force insurance on incoming tourists it should not be forced on the people with "Retirement" VISA who already have Bt 800,000 up front.

It should be forced more so on people who are on retirement visas given they would be the ones who woule require the more expensive treatments due to their age and in the absence of any insurance would be the more likely to default on payment because they cant afford the treatment in first place

[thaiduncankk]

Just allow foreigner's to participate in the country's 30 baht medical universal coverage program by paying a fair fee. Most Thai's don't pay any income taxes and therefore don't provide funds to pay for govt services such as the free health care provides under the 30 baht program...as least a farang would be paying the fee which is more than a Thai pays.

I am 79 and am in the 30 bt scheme-------- never had to use it but according to you we (Farangs ) are not entitled---------------- Am I wasting my money ?????????

You must be married to someone who works for the Government, if not, you will find that the card has expired, and not renewable.

And when they were issued, the total cost was 2,800 baht, inclusive of a compulsory medical.

OK I will certainly look into it but I only joined 3 months ago and have a brand new card

Can I ask which hospital you registered with for the card ?

Mine, in Khon Kaen, expired last year, and on trying to renew it, I was advised that it was no longer available.