Hatari Air Purifier (HT-AP12) - fan speed for 24 hour running?

[jharr]

Thanks first to various people for posts that led me to buying one of these and putting some filtrete over my a/c's coarse filters. The Hatari was bought at HomePro for ฿4,880 and came with an extra HEPA filter (I noted that all the others for >= 30sqm were over ฿10,000 and I assume imports and came with no extra filter). This unit is recommended for 32sqm and that's roughly what I'm running it in with the bathroom door vents sealed up and closed.

Has anyone worked out if the low setting (1) is sufficient for running all the time around that recommended size of 32sqm? The Hatari instructions are in Thai and brief so I assume even if my Thai was fabulous the answer is not there. I have contacted Hatari for English instructions and will post them if I happen to get them.

Cheers

[MESmith]

Can't answer your question, but the good thing about buying that model is that filters are easy to obtain. If Home Pro are out of stock, Lazada online will have them.

[jharr]

Thanks MESmith, saw your posts elsewhere too.

HomePro made a point of showing me the phone number to order a replacement filter on the warranty/instructions.

A quick search of Lazada using Google reveals the replacement for ฿888, but don't search on Lazada directly for it unless you use "RAP-1201".

http://www.lazada.co.th/catalog/?q=RAP-1201

[Lowriesuzanne]

My California house needed hepa filters. I bought a great bedroom machine from Costco for $269 dollars and a Swiss hospital grade machine online for $1000 dollars. 90 sq meters downstairs and 35 sq meters upstairs. If you are able to purchase Hepa filters for less than $1000 baht, then my advice is to buy two machines and two spare Hepa filters and run both machines 24/7. We're talking about your health which has no price. Don't pinch pennies. Be reasonable. Be kind to yourself. Double your filtration now.

[Awk]

Nobody can tell you that. The only way to know is to measure it yourself with a particle counter of some sort. I did some measurements with that myself a couple of years ago, using Blueair 650E as the air purifier. I'm thinking that the Blueair is quite a bit better and more powerful than your Hatari.

In the house we rented at that time, I never ran the Blueair at a setting below medium. When pollution was high (you can see when that is from aqmthai.com if you want), I ran the Blueair at the max setting in the 25sqm bedroom, the noise not withstanding. Actually, the Blueair noise is reminiscent of white noise, so surprising enough, it did not prevent anyone from sleeping. So when we entered the worst period, I just left it at the max setting every night without bothering to check that days pollution level.

Even at the max setting, the air in the bedroom was not filtered to a level better than barely acceptable at the worst times.

That was in a Thai house of average/mid-range quality. Unless the room you stay in is considerably better isolated than mine was (or the Hatari is much better than Blueair, which I very much doubt), I'd leave the Hatari at the highest setting you're comfortable with. I'm thinking I'll should buy a Hatari purifier, or some other cheaper brand, and put it in the living room downstairs, rather than carry the Blueairs up and down before/after sleep, risking damaging them every time.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Awk

[jharr]

I'm in a concrete condo with good doors and windows in terms of sealing, pretty typical in CM, so if anyone has done some testing with a meter of the Hatari's performance I think it would be useful. I'm not interested in buying a meter, just making the best use of simple, cheap precautions.

I have concerns about the accuracy and completeness of the aqmthai.com data. I don't have any first hand evidence but I have seen photos and claims of government workers spraying water around measurement stations, and private PM10 meter readings being higher than aqmthai.com. No PM2.5 data either, which I believe is inconsistent with other countries of comparable development and pollution issues.

The Hatari is definitely reducing the dust. I can see that. It is rated for 32sqm which is about what I'm in with the bathroom door closed with good seals, so I think one unit is enough.

[TonyClifton]

I'm in a concrete condo with good doors and windows in terms of sealing, pretty typical in CM, so if anyone has done some testing with a meter of the Hatari's performance I think it would be useful. I'm not interested in buying a meter, just making the best use of simple, cheap precautions.
I have concerns about the accuracy and completeness of the aqmthai.com data. I don't have any first hand evidence but I have seen photos and claims of government workers spraying water around measurement stations, and private PM10 meter readings being higher than aqmthai.com. No PM2.5 data either, which I believe is inconsistent with other countries of comparable development and pollution issues.
The Hatari is definitely reducing the dust. I can see that. It is rated for 32sqm which is about what I'm in with the bathroom door closed with good seals, so I think one unit is enough.

I just bought two this evening. My instructions are in Thai and English. I'll scan them.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[THAIJAMES]

I have a PM 2.5 sensor and hatari filter in a 40sm bedroom.   Leaving the filter for 3 hours (on timer) is enough to bring levels down to about 30 PM.   By morning time the measurement has risen to around 50 with the hatari turned off.  However my PM sensor only shows around 80 PM before I turn it on.  meaning this depends a lot on where you live.  I live near CMU on quiet street.

[llp]

I have two Hatari units in a 30sq meter room running them almost nonspot on fan speed 2, will be getting a pm2.5/10 meter in a couple weeks can report back after that.

[llp]

On another note, has anyone  taken their  2.5 PM meter to test the indoor air quality of some of the major hospitals or large shopping malls....would be interesting to know.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

I have a PM 2.5 sensor

What sensor did you buy, and where did you buy it from?

[TonyClifton]

Whoever was looking for the English instructions for the Hatari HT-AP12, here they are:

Hatari HT-AP12.pdf

Hatari HT-AP12.pdf

[THAIJAMES]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Xiaomi-Mijia-PM2-5-Detector-Air-Quality-Tester-OLED-Screen-Air-Purifier-High-Precision-Laser/32836409716.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.cN0wMF

 

It is very portable, when I have a chance I will test shopping malls and major intersections

[THAIJAMES]

Sorry for double post

Edited February 20, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[TonyClifton]

16 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Xiaomi-Mijia-PM2-5-Detector-Air-Quality-Tester-OLED-Screen-Air-Purifier-High-Precision-Laser/32836409716.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.cN0wMF

 

It is very portable, when I have a chance I will test shopping malls and major intersections

You should have one of those bacteria detectors too.  I'll bet you'll sh&$&#$&* yourself when you find out how filthy it is.

[TonyClifton]

I don't think you need a detector.  I always get a fine layer of dust on my computer and anything sitting out in the room.  If that stops, then it's a good indicator the purifier is getting it.  

[THAIJAMES]

I agree you don't need a detector and your nose and eyes will tell you anything you need to know.

 

I was curious about the performance of the PM 2.5 sensor, so I did a quick test in the area at 6 PM.

 

My House (CMU area): 

- In my bedroom no air filter all day 53 PM

- outside the house 59 PM

- on the street outside the house 71

 

In front of Chiang Mai University (7-11):

- Red cards go by 226 PM

- Some traffic 122 PM 

- Low traffic around 80

 

Maya:

- In motorcycle parking lot 73 PM

- basement floor 55 PM

- 1st floor 52 PM

- 4th floor 53 PM

- Top floor outside 54 PM

 

Maya Intersection:

- As pedestrian waiting on side 66 PM

- Red Cars go bye 99 PM

 

Walking along Nimahemin around 60-65 PM

 

I was surprised that PM 2.5 was not that high on the street if there is good ventilation,  as there is in the wide intersection at Maya. 

 

Or the sensor could just be a POS.

 

Conclusion, your nose is just as good as the sensor.  If you can smell the pollution then it is bad.

As someone has said previously, best to spend the money and run filters all the time anyways.  Keeping in mind that you need fresh air also.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

I don't think you need a detector.  I always get a fine layer of dust on my computer and anything sitting out in the room.  If that stops, then it's a good indicator the purifier is getting it.  

 PM 2.5 supposedly is smaller than can be seen by the naked human eye.

 

Normal house dust that you see on surfaces is a different, larger kind of particulate.

 

From the U.S. EPA:

 

See the description under PM 2.5 where it says those particles can only be directly seen under a microscope.

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[THAIJAMES]

For those that can't afford to buy a hepa air filter, here is a way to build your own for the cost of the filter only:

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/make-diy-air-purifier/

(a lot of good air quality articles on the above site)
 

The WHO guidelines for PM2.5 is 25 μg/m³ mean in 24-hour period
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs313/en/

 

So I need to start the filters a lot earlier and leave them on all the time to meet the WHO levels.

Edited February 21, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[junglechef]

As for an App I think might be better then ThaiAqi I use https://airvisual.com/thailand/chiang-mai, it includes pm2.5 and readings from private users that buy their sensors which might be an interesting option for buying one, sharing the data and all that.

 

I have two of the Hatari air filters running at fan speed 4 and my a/c with 3M filter in my 50 sq mt bedroom all night and one filter I let run all day too when the air quality is in the red. 

No idea of levels but I don't wake up with a headache as I do without. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

I was curious about the performance of the PM 2.5 sensor, so I did a quick test in the area at 6 PM.

 

My House (CMU area): 

- In my bedroom no air filter all day 53 PM

- outside the house 59 PM

- on the street outside the house 71

 

In front of Chiang Mai University (7-11):

- Red cards go by 226 PM

- Some traffic 122 PM 

- Low traffic around 80

 

Maya:

- In motorcycle parking lot 73 PM

- basement floor 55 PM

- 1st floor 52 PM

- 4th floor 53 PM

- Top floor outside 54 PM

 

 

If I understand these things right, a 55 micrograms per cubic liter reading for PM2.5, if that was an average over 24 hours, works out to about a 151 AQI index number for PM2.5, which is the trigger number for a unhealthy for all rating.

 

Gotta remember to keep distinct and separate the actual PM2.5 measurement readings vs what those translate into on the AQI scale.

 

 

https://www.airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.calculator

 

Here's what the official AQI index numbers for CM City Hall have been over the past 48 hours, low of 114 and high of 163. And the large 137 number being as of 10 am Weds/today.

 

Seems to show the worst times for PM2.5 there (the red color bars on the graphic below) start around 6 pm (18 hours on the scale) and continue past midnight.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[THAIJAMES]

TallGuyJohninBKK

Thank you for clearing that up, I was always confused why the readings I was getting were so different then shown in the AQI web site.  Now I know!

But according to the link the PM2.5 concentration needs to be 10 ug/m3 for the air quality to be good.  compared to the WHO which recommends under 25 ug/m3.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think/hope I'm right about that... The U.S. EPA website I linked to above will calculate the values either way... actual measurement to AQI, or, AQI to actual measurement with the two different tabs on that webpage.

 

From what I could gather in reading the EPA website yesterday on the AQI stuff, they wanted to have a standardized values chart where the same AQI values meant the same thing for each of the four or five different main pollutants that are monitored as standard.

 

So obviously, the numeric measurement numbers for PM2.5, PM10, ozone, suphur etc are going to be all over the map because they're different kinds of substances with different measurements. But by converting the values for each pollutant to a standardized AQI value, it means that, for example, a 151 AQI value is going to be the trigger point for an unhealthy for all warning, regardless of the pollutant.

 

At least in the U.S., from what I read, it seems like they take the highest AQI value for a particular day for whatever the highest value pollutant is that day, and then that becomes the official AQI reading and advisory level for that day. Here in Thailand, the highest values on the AQI scale seem to pretty regularly come from the PM2.5 reading. So that value tends to set the overall AQI value each day for locations.

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

To answer the topic of this post:

Leaving the Hatari air purifier on all the time in a bedroom 40sqm at low speed brought down the pm2.5 level to 10 in about  3 hours and it stayed around 8 ug/m3. until the morning.  So in conclusion it works perfectly well even on a low setting using a 2 year old filter.

 

Of course the pollution has not gotten that bad yet and this needs to be retested under worst conditions.

Also having a PM2.5 sensor does have the benefit that you can test to make sure that your filter needs to be changed or not, In the past I just changed them after a year or so, but this filter going on it's second season seems fine.

 

The big problem is that by closing the room to outside air, the oxygen level is reduced to the point I am not sure if the extra clean air is worth the reduced oxygen level.

[TonyClifton]

I bought two of the Hatari purifiers.  I have 40 sqm in the main room and probably 20 sqm in the bedroom.  I run the one in the main room anytime I am in it. I only turn it off to sleep and the one in the bedroom is running while we sleep.  My nose can't tell the difference.  I don't know how well these units work but as they are rated for 32 sqm and will handle a larger room if there are no walls or partitions, I can't imagine that the air isn't getting clean.  

 

Now to the poster who said he had one of these using the same filter for 2 years, they only rate the filter for 4000 hours or 6 months of use.

 

Can someone explain what PLASMA does vs Ionization?

[THAIJAMES]

8 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Now to the poster who said he had one of these using the same filter for 2 years, they only rate the filter for 4000 hours or 6 months of use.

 

Thanks for the info about 4000 hours. 

I also have two of these.

Since I only turn each on for 2 months a year 8 hours a day, that means the filter should last 8 years.  :)

 

However I will use my PM2.5 sensor to tell me when the filters are no longer working as before.

Edited February 26, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[sfokevin]

I would recommend that one buy the Filtrete and place a bit of it on the of your hatari intake ( between the filter and the outer mesh )to catch the big things - replace it weekly 

Edited February 26, 2018 by sfokevin

[CheGuava]

On 2/21/2018 at 4:15 PM, THAIJAMES said:

But according to the link the PM2.5 concentration needs to be 10 ug/m3 for the air quality to be good.  compared to the WHO which recommends under 25 ug/m3.

 

Any thoughts?

 

That is the WHO goal yes. It's very often exceeded, anywhere in the world even in temperate marine climates.   The US EPA AQI index is already a lot more realistic.   However, indoors and with an air purifier running it seems real easy to get below 25 ug/m3 so why not.  Like you said, let's see how easy we get there during the worst of it.  

BTW,I also don't think you should be sealing the room to the point that oxygen levels become problematic. :)  Whatever air gets in will get filtered, that's what the air purifier is for. 

 

9 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Now to the poster who said he had one of these using the same filter for 2 years, they only rate the filter for 4000 hours or 6 months of use.

 

Good; that'll last a couple years then if you run it 2 months from mid Feb to mid April.   Plus I'm not home all the time. 

 

 

On 2/20/2018 at 7:28 PM, THAIJAMES said:

I agree you don't need a detector and your nose and eyes will tell you anything you need to know.

 

Seriously?   Unless there's a fire right next to my house I completely don't smell anything even mid March, and definitely don't have any symptoms.  So without a PM2.5 counter I really wouldn't know. 

 

42 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

I would recommend that one buy the Filtrete and place a bit of it on the of your hatari intake ( between the filter and the outer mesh )to catch the big things - replace it weekly 

 

Why, actually?   If that particle counter tells you that running the air purifier as designed quickly gets the air to under 10ug/m3 then why bother?   And replacing it weekly.. again, why?    It'll probably keep the outer mesh cleaner if you put it on the outside of it, making for less work washing it, but other than that?

 

I do use the 3M stuff on air conditioners because why not, but an air purifier is pretty magic. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just a question for those who are using the Hatari air filter machines: what's your situation with obtaining replacement filters?

 

I was at my local Home Pro store in BKK yesterday, and saw they had a Hatari model and several other brands on display.

 

But when I talked to the store staff, they basically said that they were only selling the machines themselves and didn't stock ANY of the replacement filters for any of them -- which I found quite bizarre.

 

According to the Home Pro staff, if you bought any of the machines from them, you'd have to contact some 3rd party entity/entities in order to purchase any replacement filters.

 

I thought about raising that issue with the store manager whom we were talking to on a different subject. But then decided, probably, the idea would have been lost on her...

 

[sfokevin]

^^^

They are listed on Lazada... but sold out...

 

Hompro’s website sells them but wants an obscene 300 baht shipping

 

Hatari’s website also sells them

https://www.hatari.co.th/en/parts/filters-parts/3085