Hatari Air Purifier (HT-AP12) - fan speed for 24 hour running?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks James, so using the U.S. EPA conversion site, if those numbers were 24 hour averages, they'd work out as follows in terms of the AQI index:

 

Bedroom - Turned off the filter 3 hours ago.  100 µg/m3 -- AQI 174 UNHEALTHY

Inside house - never filtered 127 µg/m3 -- AQI 188 UNHEALTHY

Outside house - 150 µg/m3 -- AQI 200 UNHEALTHY (just shy of VERY UNHEALTHY)

TV room - Turned on filter 3 hours ago 35 µg/m3 -- AQI 99 MODERATE (very high end of)

 

Just by way of comparison, the PM2.5 AQI outdoors in downtown BKK at 9 am today was almost the same as your indoor/filter on reading -- 102 AQI, very low end of unhealthy for sensitive groups.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, llp said:

 

Here's example with a high end filter the air output gets down to 0 pm 2.5.  And with a furnace hepa filter 90% reduction.

 

IIp, once again,, what specific brand/name of device are you using to take your PM2.5 readings?

 

Also, re the box fan photo above, I've seen and read about that kind of homemade deal lately as we've been exploring these things here. So then, I went out shopping around BKK, and was surprised to not find ANY square box fan units in the stores I checked -- Central, Big C, a few others.  Everything I saw was some kind of stand-based fan, usually with a circular shape, that wouldn't allow the homemade kind of approach.

 

I will say, in looking last week in Central Department store and PowerBuy here in BKK, I was AMAZED at the prices they're asking for typical HEPA air purifier units here -- for anything large enough for a decent size room, their typical prices were 20K to 40K baht or more.

 

Some purifier-specific brands made in Thailand. The cheapest ones one brand imported from China. A few by established brands like Sharp and Hitachi, I think. FWIW, the prices for those units were WAY, WAY more expensive than comparable HEPA units available in the U.S.

Edited March 9, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[llp]

Laser Sensor Portable Formaldehyde Detector PM2.5 Multi Air Quality Monitor

http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/BuR33nI

(from AliExpress Android)

 

 

 

Uses a laser sensor PM0.3   PM0.5   PM1.0   PM2.5   PM5   PM10

 (not like some pm2.5 that use a dust center and only accurate to pm10)

specs of sensor:

[llp]

I also spent time looking for box fans in thailand without success. 

 

What's even better is a blower type fan, like the cannon found here:

https://smartairfilters.com/cn/en/

 

Which performs better than the IQAir which cost 17 times more!

 

 

I think the Hatari (HT-AP12) is a great unit in comparison to other options available in Thailand, especially for the price, that's why I got two for them . Just was curious if the filter on it is a top of the line HEPA filter or if its missing picking up on the really small particles that a sensor picks up, hence why our sensors output at least 10ug3.

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by llp

[THAIJAMES]

14 minutes ago, llp said:

Laser Sensor Portable Formaldehyde Detector PM2.5 Multi Air Quality Monitor

http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/BuR33nI

(from AliExpress Android)

 

 

 

Uses a laser sensor PM0.3   PM0.5   PM1.0   PM2.5   PM5   PM10

 (not like some pm2.5 that use a dust center and only accurate to pm10)

specs of sensor:

Any body purchased this sensor?  The spelling mistakes throughout the product description don't instill confidence

[llp]

I have some of there other products.  It's a pretty big company in china listed on stock exchange, not not know to western world. Their market is not America hence English is not perfect.  They make their own sensor and have patent on it, http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/IIa2zrZ which competitors use in their products. But right,  instead of trust better to verify.

 

You are getting the same results as me though right, never getting a reading below 10?  Xiaomi sensor is a laser sensors as well and should be quite accurate, but there other products don't instill confidence, such as: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/xiaomi-auto-mode-leaves-air-unsafe-86-hours/

 

 

 

[sfokevin]

Formaldehyde!!!..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Xiaomi-Mijia-PM2-5-Detector-Air-Quality-Tester-OLED-Screen-Air-Purifier-High-Precision-Laser/32836409716.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Nr8Wdw

 

James, did the model you bought come with any EN language instructions, or were you able to find them elsewhere?  Or, did your unit require any instructions to set up and use?

 

[HaleySabai]

Bought this Hatari model yesterday and within an hour,what a dramatic difference it made in the house. My lungs are begging for deep breaths.

My wife chuckled that of course after I buy the thing the air quality suddenly improves.

Still,a good investment....may even buy another.

 

[THAIJAMES]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

James, did the model you bought come with any EN language instructions, or were you able to find them elsewhere?  Or, did your unit require any instructions to set up and use?

 

Only very minimal instructions in Chinese.  If you don't need to connect to your home automation system or control another Xiaomi air filter then all you need to do is press a button on top to turn it on and it just works.  No need for instructions.

 

When plugged into usb it stays on all the time.  Otherwise on batteries a timer will turn it off after a few minutes.

 

If you need to setup to connect to your home automation.  Xiaomi has a home automation app (in English)  that you can use to connect the sensor to your wifi and then send data to your home automation or to control a Xiaomi air filter.  The app was difficult to use and connect to the sensor.   I gave up trying to connect after a few minutes since the sensor display is perfect for viewing the data and didn't really see any value in being able to access the data on the sensor remotely.

 

overall great product and happy with the purchase.

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/9/2018 at 12:16 PM, llp said:

I also spent time looking for box fans in thailand without success. 

 

What's even better is a blower type fan, like the cannon found here:

https://smartairfilters.com/cn/en/

 

Which performs better than the IQAir which cost 17 times more!

 

 

I think the Hatari (HT-AP12) is a great unit in comparison to other options available in Thailand, especially for the price, that's why I got two for them . Just was curious if the filter on it is a top of the line HEPA filter or if its missing picking up on the really small particles that a sensor picks up, hence why our sensors output at least 10ug3.

 

 

I checked with that company in China, and they were very responsive in English. They will sell their DIY air purifier products to Thailand, but the shipping for them tends to be expensive, like in the range of $40 US for some reason. So by the time you purchase the DIY item and then pay the shipping, you're heading into the same price range of some of the more affordable models offered here locally for sale, $100+/3000b+.

 

But they have a great website with a lot of helpful/useful information in English re PM2.5 and air purifiers and masks, etc.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I bought a PM2.5 sensor from aliexpress today...

 

Looked at the following models:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PM1-0-PM-2-5-PM10-Gas-Analyzer-9-Kinds-Particles-Detector-with-Temperature-Humidity-Meter/32843044398.html

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Portable-PM2-5-Detector-Air-Quality-Monitor-High-Accurate-Tester-PM-2-5-Haze-Dust-Meter/32813444937.html

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Xiaomi-PM2-5-Detector-Sensor-Air-Quality-Monitoring-High-precision-Laser-Sensor-OLED-Screen-Using/32763181451.html

 

And ended up choosing and buying this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Air-Quality-Monitor-Mini-Laser-PM2-5-Monitor-Wall-mounted-Inovafitness-PM2-5-Detector-Gas-monitor/32826759103.html

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[THAIJAMES]

The more of us that have these sensors the better.  Would be interested in feedback from members that have Formaldehyde and other type of sensors and how useful they are.

[baywatch82]

I have a newborn baby, and really need to buy an air purifier.
I see many people post good things about Hatari one. 

Would anyone take some time and have a look on this one ? What do you think ?
https://www.gearbest.com/home-smart-improvements/pp_268522.html

The price seems to be very attractive (under 5000 baht).
It has built in air quality sensor, so no need to buy additional device.
Good for rooms up to 46sq.m. on the super mode (or 40sq.m. on standard mode).
It says that filter removes 99.99 of 2.5PM particles.
Replacement filters are available for about 1500 baht. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by baywatch82

[sfokevin]

27 minutes ago, baywatch82 said:

I have a newborn baby, and really need to buy an air purifier.
I see many people post good things about Hatari one. 

Would anyone take some time and have a look on this one ? What do you think ?
https://www.gearbest.com/home-smart-improvements/pp_268522.html

The price seems to be very attractive (under 5000 baht).
It has built in air quality sensor, so no need to buy additional device.
Good for rooms up to 46sq.m. on the super mode (or 40sq.m. on standard mode).
It says that filter removes 99.99 of 2.5PM particles.
Replacement filters are available for about 1500 baht. 

I have ordered this one and another with the Oled PM 2,5 display... this only difference is I ordered the EU plug (Note you have that option)... The thing that interested me was that they have built in PM 2.5 sensors that monitor the air and report to you when it is bad and adjust the units motor to clean the air... The only drawback I am considering is that the replacement filters are ~1,500 baht -  PS I ordered from Lazada and got a 10% discount code they were offering that day :-)

 

https://www.gearbest.com/home-smart-improvements/pp_1003105.html?wid=4

 

Oled model:

https://www.gearbest.com/air-purifier/pp_1128423.html

Edited March 13, 2018 by sfokevin

[baywatch82]

7 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

I have ordered this one and another with the Oled PM 2,5 display... this only difference is I ordered the EU plug (Note you have that option)... The only drawback I am considering is that the replacement filters are ~1,500 baht - 

 

https://www.gearbest.com/home-smart-improvements/pp_1003105.html?wid=4

 

Oled model:

https://www.gearbest.com/air-purifier/pp_1128423.html

Cool will have a look on other options ! Yeah, filters are quite expensive, and another thing - if I order it now, it will arrive when smoke season is probably finished.
I might buy Hatari for now and this one for next year, I will need 2 anyway for the house.

[THAIJAMES]

33 minutes ago, baywatch82 said:

I have a newborn baby, and really need to buy an air purifier.
I see many people post good things about Hatari one. 

Would anyone take some time and have a look on this one ? What do you think ?
https://www.gearbest.com/home-smart-improvements/pp_268522.html

The price seems to be very attractive (under 5000 baht).
It has built in air quality sensor, so no need to buy additional device.
Good for rooms up to 46sq.m. on the super mode (or 40sq.m. on standard mode).
It says that filter removes 99.99 of 2.5PM particles.
Replacement filters are available for about 1500 baht. 

 

From the reviews I read, the only problem is that the air sensor kicks in at 75ug3.  that's the bad air quality for China, but for the rest of the world bad air quality starts at 25ug3.

 

I think it can be overridden to start filtering at lower levels using home automation and xiaomi own separate sensors or by just not using the automatic mode.

 

This might have been fixed in newer versions?

 

Also the sensors on the unit will not be as good as separate sensors.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by THAIJAMES

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, baywatch82 said:

Would anyone take some time and have a look on this one ? What do you think ?
https://www.gearbest.com/home-smart-improvements/pp_268522.html

The price seems to be very attractive (under 5000 baht).
It has built in air quality sensor, so no need to buy additional device.
Good for rooms up to 46sq.m. on the super mode (or 40sq.m. on standard mode).
It says that filter removes 99.99 of 2.5PM particles.
Replacement filters are available for about 1500 baht. 

 

There's one negative about that model, based on one of the reviews I read. And that is that it automatically switched to AUTO mode after THREE HOURS run time, and there's no way to disable that. The problem with that being, according to the review, the unit's AUTO mode setting, which relies on its own builtin PM2.5 sensor, does a very poor job of keeping the air clean.

 

I'll just add as a caveat: this is from one review, although the reviewer in a separate blog post seems to have confirmation from Xiaomi on this detail. I haven't seen this claim repeated elsewhere. And there's one post in the comments section of the review that says the 3 hours deal isn't true. So....  But at least, it's an issue I'd try to sort out before making any buying decision.

 

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/data-explains-never-use-purifiers-auto-mode/

 

Quote

And in tests of the Xiaomi’s high setting, it also performed relatively well but cannot be kept on high. The machine switches to auto mode whether users want it or not at the third hour.  Really? You really can’t set the Xiaomi to stay on high? 

 

Quote

Cause 1: The Built-In Air Quality Monitor is Wildly Inaccurate

The auto mode is governed by the built-in air quality monitor. The problem is, I systematically tested three different Xiaomi’s against three independent particle counters, and found the Xiaomi monitor was wildly inaccurate. At its worst, it was underestimating actual PM2.5 by 218 micrograms!

 

Quote

 

What Users Should Know

Auto modes routinely leave indoor air far above safe limits. I do not recommend using auto modes (or the Mi2, which forces people to use auto mode after three hours).

 

 

I believe, I read elsewhere that Xiaomi supposedly switched to a different type of built-in pollution sensor in its subsequent 3rd version air purifiers and that supposedly does a more accurate job of taking readings and thus controlling the unit's AUTO functioning.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, THAIJAMES said:

 

From the reviews I read, the only problem is that the air sensor kicks in at 75ug3.  that's the bad air quality for China, but for the rest of the world bad air quality starts at 25ug3.

 

 

I read something similar for the Xiaomi units at least up thru the 2nd model, and that's that their sensor is calibrated to the Chinese AQI scale, which supposedly is less strict than the U.S. one.

 

Quote

Cause 2: The Xiaomi Has a Loose Definition of “Safe Air”

It could also be that they just have a loose definition of “safe air.” For example, China’s PM 2.5 limit is 35 micrograms, whereas the World Health Organization’s annual limit is 10 micrograms.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/data-explains-never-use-purifiers-auto-mode/

 

One other thing about these units is, quite a few purchaser reviews seemed to be talking about having to replace the filter pretty often, and the product info on one of the selling websites says every 3-6 months.  I'm wondering if that's because these units seem to use a single, multi stage filter -- instead of a cheaper pre-filter to catch the big stuff and then a more expensive HEPA filter to catch the tiny stuff. When the unit has a single multi purpose filter unit, I'm guessing that's going to need replacement more often.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[baywatch82]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But at least, it's an issue I'd try to sort out before making any buying decision.

 

Thanks for checking on that TallGuy and ThaiJames.

Seems like a pretty good unit with some great functions, but expensive filters and the issue you have mentioned can be a deal breaker.
Maybe better idea to buy Hatari. It does a good job, filters are cheap and available locally, no major deal breakers reported. Also, I would prefer to have a separated air quality sensor that I can take outside rather than build-in sensor.

Edited March 13, 2018 by baywatch82

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just curious for those who have been using PM2.5 monitors in their homes here:

 

1. Once you've been running an air purifier for some period and then shut it off, how long does it take before the indoor PM2.5 levels return to their normal/background levels? (I know that's likely to vary based on how air-tight a home/room is, but I'm looking for some sense...)

 

2. How much of a difference do you see between the levels outside vs. inside your home (even without using any air purifier). I keep reading the advice to stay indoors when the pollution levels are high, ostensibly because the indoor levels will be lower. But is that really true, and if so, to what extent?

 

 

[sfokevin]

Auto mode on any unit is going to be finicky... as the algorithm used is most likely set for an area that has much higher pollution than we experience in CM...

 

My bet is the Xiaomi’s 3 hour time limit is used to fulfill some government energy standard... the forums have an easy workaround as the unit has a very good event timer system... you can set it to turn on in the morning and then every 3 hours switch to your favorite mode (a mode where you can set the fan speed to say 0 to 100%)...  

 

The filters are more expensive the the Hatari (~1,400 vs 888) but with a 4-6 month Beijing life they should last two seasons here and you have the options of getting bacteria or formaldehyde filters and easily ordered online...

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Auto mode on any unit is going to be finicky... as the algorithm used is most likely set for an area that has much higher pollution than we experience in CM...

 

My bet is the Xiaomi’s 3 hour time limit is used to fulfill some government energy standard... the forums have an easy workaround as the unit has a very good event timer system... you can set it to turn on in the morning and then every 3 hours switch to your favorite mode (a mode where you can set the fan speed to say 0 to 100%)... 

 

 

Do you have the Mi 2 unit or have used it?  Have you ever tested its performance against a separate PM2.5 monitor?

 

Also, if you know, does the Mi smartphone app for these devices come in an EN version, or is it only Chinese?

 

BTW, on the 3 hour issue, the review I read on the subject also noted you could manually reset the unit every 3 hours to keep it on the HIGH setting vs the auto setting. But of course, that's not a very desirable situation if you're talking about the night hours when one hopefully is sleeping.

Edited March 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sfokevin]

33 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Do you have the Mi 2 unit or have used it?  Have you ever tested its performance against a separate PM2.5 monitor?

 

Both are ordered and in transit ;-)... I will do a separate thread reviewing them...

 

You up can set a timer in the app to make it reset itself every 3 hours...

 

Here is a good YouTube 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by sfokevin

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In the other thread on Bangkok air pollution, I did a post today recapping the travails of trying to find replacement filters for either Sharp or Toshiba air purifiers, which are commonly sold in the stores here. Unfortunately, not a very good situation with either brand:

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Both are ordered and in transit ;-)... I will do a separate thread reviewing them...

 

You up can set a timer in the app to make it reset itself every 3 hours...

 

Here is a good YouTube 

 

 

Thanks for posting the YouTube review.  I didn't hear the review guy talking about being able to program the smartphone app to RESET the device every 3 hours. I did hear him talking about the ability to set a time schedule for the device turning on and off, maybe that's what you mean.

 

But, I was intrigued to hear that guy, who apparently is in Canada, probably not nearly as polluted as Thailand, talking about needing to replace the unit's filter every 3 months. I'm guessing, that's a function of the Mi units having a SINGLE combined filter, and an expensive one at that, as opposed to having a separate and cheaper pre-filter that catches a lot of the bigger particles before they hit the HEPA filter.

 

[THAIJAMES]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Also, if you know, does the Mi smartphone app for these devices come in an EN version, or is it only Chinese?

The home automation mobile app is also in English and can control many Xiaomi products including the filters and sensors.    I had problems connecting to the sensor and gave up after a few minutes. 

[THAIJAMES]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

1. Once you've been running an air purifier for some period and then shut it off, how long does it take before the indoor PM2.5 levels return to their normal/background levels? (I know that's likely to vary based on how air-tight a home/room is, but I'm looking for some sense...)

a few hours, if the pollution is bad outside then fairly quickly 1-2 hours.

 

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

2. How much of a difference do you see between the levels outside vs. inside your home (even without using any air purifier). I keep reading the advice to stay indoors when the pollution levels are high, ostensibly because the indoor levels will be lower. But is that really true, and if so, to what extent?

 

 

If your windows are open, then very little difference between outside and inside.

It is really a matter of how tight/large your room is.  If you have no filters then I would assume that you would open your windows in the morning to let some air in and then close them for the rest of the day.  You might get a slight decrease in pollution.

 

I did measure that in Central Festival downstairs the pollution level was 50% lower than outside.

so possibly they have filters.   The levels were higher in the upper floors.

 

The big questions:  I know that pm2.5 are supposed to be harmful, but there must be a difference between the particles created from smoke from burning nature and smoke created from cars/factories.

 

Is it possible that the particulates from the north are not as bad as those from a big city/factories in other parts of the world?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

The big questions:  I know that pm2.5 are supposed to be harmful, but there must be a difference between the particles created from smoke from burning nature and smoke created from cars/factories.

 

Is it possible that the particulates from the north are not as bad as those from a big city/factories in other parts of the world?

 

 

Thanks for the info above, James.

 

As for the PM2.5 details, I'm no scientist. But my guess is, you're reaching on that one... But that's just a guess...

[baywatch82]

Just bought Hatari unit 1 hour ago an it is already connected and working. Bought at Homepro for 4888 baht, extra filter included for free. I will also buy Xiaomi unit in the future.

 

However I see some things that will bother me for sure. My wife (Thai) is very against using A/C. She says that cold air from A/C can make newborn baby to catch a cold easy.

So when using purifier I need to have all doors and windows closed, so there is no ventilation at house, and cannot use A/C. Damn very hot at day time and even at night time