Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[watgate]

I am interested in hearing from posters who live full-time in Thailand and don't have health insurance for whatever reason. In reading past posts, the general consensus seems to be that one should have, as a minimum, at least 3 million baht set aside for medical expenses. I realize health costs and needs vary from person to person based on many factors such as age, your overall health and underlying medical needs. etc. I was just wondering what folks, who private pay for their medical needs, feel is sufficient to ensure some resemblance of security and peace of mind for any future medical needs or issues should they arise. Also,if one is reasonably healthy, any idea how long 3 million baht can carry you barring any unforseen emergencies or serious health issues. Maybe it is impossible to forecast since no one can predict the future and no one has a crystal ball to see how one's life is going to play out.

[LivinLOS]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it was a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

[cooked]

This is the question that puts all the others into the shade. I certainly don't wish to die in Thailand due to inadequate health insurance, and I think I have it covered. In view of the large numbers of guys that don' t have enough to fork out the ฿400 000 or ฿800 000 for an extension, I imagine that there are many here that expect their Thai families to look after them and then pay their medical expenses.

It really is the down side and unacknowledged aspect of expat life for many here,

[LawrenceChee]

I would say if you don't have company insurance to Ensure you buy it

Thailand is a lovely tourist space but for Long term dwellers there are vey little benefits for us and we are on our own

[HullyGully]

May wife and DO NOT have insurance

Its all about risk and can you afford to pay

Insurance Companies want you when you are young, as you get older, the premium are expensive and when you are OLD, they do not want you

Based on say a yearly premium of GBP 4000/5000, we decided to self insure, we have lived in Thailand 13 years, had some general hospital costs, however we are well in front

I estimated a major op would be around 1M USD

FYI - we are 66 and 48yrs

[eyecatcher]

I had been under pressure from back home and also the wife here to take out accident and health insurance, but never having been ill in my life or having an accident needing more than a plaster it wasnt important for me.

What was spelt out, was that it was equally as important for my family so they would have something less to worry about.

Then my instinct told me, you have been here 5 years and the chances/odds of a road accident are increasing every day.

I certainly cannot afford to be finding 300k and upwards for what might only be a broken leg let alone anything worse.

i think when people accept how selfish they are being they will take out a policy not just for them self but for their wife.

[HullyGully]

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

[Sheryl]

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

Yes, about right or a bit more if in a higher end (price wise) hospital. But that's for just one op. Imagine needing several operations for the same event as does happen. And prolonged ICU stay.

1-2 million per event at a government hospital. 5 mill if private. We have a member ion this board who recently racked up >3 million in a single hospitalization (without major complications, but 2 big specialized surgeries) in a private hospital, and I have seen far, far worse especially after major accidents with multiple trauma. Luckily he was well insured.

How many times in the past year have we had threads running about appeals for money to pay an uninsured farang's hospital bill? Several, at least.

[balo]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

[tonray]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

Did you count the several million baht cost of medical evacuation to Norway...you do know that they won't let you fly with your IV and Hospital machinery in tourist class right ?

[BuaBS]

No health insurance for me. Car insurance covers accidents . In case of acute situations like heart attack or stroke , I'm willing to die here . In less acute diseases like cancer , I fly home and have social/medical insurance paid by my taxes when I worked there.

Minor things like appendicitis , are affordable in Thai gov hospitals , that's why we are forced to keep 800k.

[Sheryl]

Unless you are really young, at that premium I think you likely have one of their low-grade plans which are close to useless IMO.

Look closely at the policy - the total maxiumum per episode and also the % covered for different surgeries etc.

Odds are good that it would cover less than half of a hospitalization, much less than that for a big ticket one.

For some reason BUPA/T has a lot of low coverage plans which they promote more than their decent plans (which they do have - Platinum by name).

Look at this now, because once you have had claims, if you then want to upgrade the upgrade will exclude anything related to prior claims for at least a few years. so finding out after the fact that this is not what you need to cover care for say a heart condition will leave you with no real recourse.

[Denim]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

Totally agree. I wouldn't trust many insurance companies with something as important as my life. I also have the cash to pay and so far am ahead of the game. Nonetheless , a few years back I was hospitalized for a week and needed a minor op. On entering the private hospital I was asked how I intended to pay. When I said cash and proved it I was admitted immediately. In the same room were lots of foreigners in various kinds of distress waiting whilst the secretaries phoned various insurance companies to clarify coverage. It looked like a long drawn out wait with a lot of disappointed people.

[stupidfarang]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

is that 15,000 baht per month you pay?

[chiang mai]

If you can afford it you should buy it,

If because of your age you think the premiums are too high AND you have cash reserves, 3 to 5 million set aside to cover these things will easily work.

But, if you can't afford the premiums AND you don't have cash reserves, there's a problem looming.

I'm with poster LivinLOS on this point, I've always believed health insurance is a mugs game and I've not had it for years hence I'm well ahead - I have 5 mill. ring fenced for this purpose.

[colinneil]

Anybody living in Thailand without health insurance is crazy.

Take my case, serious accident 7 months in hospital.

6 major operations, 4 weeks ICU.

Now 2. 5 years later still having to visit hospital every 3 weeks (catheter change )

Still having to take pain killers, have a paid carer.

If i had to pay for all that it would have bankrupted me months ago.

[chiang mai]

Anybody living in Thailand without health insurance is crazy.

Take my case, serious accident 7 months in hospital.

6 major operations, 4 weeks ICU.

Now 2. 5 years later still having to visit hospital every 3 weeks (catheter change )

Still having to take pain killers, have a paid carer.

If i had to pay for all that it would have bankrupted me months ago.

The answer to the question of whether to have health insurance or not is different for each of us and is based on various factors including appetite for risk, financial assets, medical history and age. Just because somebody else has a different answer to you doesn't make it crazy in the least, simply, their circumstances and make up are different to yours, ons mans meat and all that.

[thaiduncankk]

Anybody living in Thailand without health insurance is crazy.

Take my case, serious accident 7 months in hospital.

6 major operations, 4 weeks ICU.

Now 2. 5 years later still having to visit hospital every 3 weeks (catheter change )

Still having to take pain killers, have a paid carer.

If i had to pay for all that it would have bankrupted me months ago.

I was told, the fact that you married a teacher, you got it on the Government health scheme ?

[LivinLOS]

I certainly cannot afford to be finding 300k and upwards for what might only be a broken leg let alone anything worse.

Then it would be an absolute must..

Mate of mine, on the back of a mocyc taxi, ended up with well into a million and a half or so in costs..

Then the appeals go out, who can chip in, its a mate, etc etc..

[LivinLOS]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

Totally agree. I wouldn't trust many insurance companies with something as important as my life. I also have the cash to pay and so far am ahead of the game. Nonetheless , a few years back I was hospitalized for a week and needed a minor op. On entering the private hospital I was asked how I intended to pay. When I said cash and proved it I was admitted immediately. In the same room were lots of foreigners in various kinds of distress waiting whilst the secretaries phoned various insurance companies to clarify coverage. It looked like a long drawn out wait with a lot of disappointed people.

Then just say cash now and work the claim out later.. If your an inpatient you have time..

I just have a personal issue with insurance.. I refuse collectivised systems as much as a modern human can.. Pensions, social insurance, etc etc.. I have none of them, never claim any benefits even when entitled, etc etc. Leave me alone I leave you alone.

[tonray]

If you can afford it you should buy it,

If because of your age you think the premiums are too high AND you have cash reserves, 3 to 5 million set aside to cover these things will easily work.

But, if you can't afford the premiums AND you don't have cash reserves, there's a problem looming.

I'm with poster LivinLOS on this point, I've always believed health insurance is a mugs game and I've not had it for years hence I'm well ahead - I have 5 mill. ring fenced for this purpose.

The problem is in the lottery we call life, you can never know when you will be the lucky number chosen. So for every 10 guys that are ahead, there will be 1 that will get snuffed. And that will increase as you age, the reality is (and I know because I spent years caring for elderly and know the game) that no matter how healthy you are, eventually your health will fail...it's called our human life cycle. We are born, we grow, we live, we experience senescence, and we die. To plan on dying if you have a heart attack or stroke is very bad planning because 1) you will not be in control and 2) typically people are kept alive in a sickly state for a decade or more after the incident.

congrats on your win but for many of us the risk is just not worth it.

And the real kicker is if you die tomorrow...the 5 mil ain't doing you any good.

Edited April 6, 2016 by tonray

[SpokaneAl]

What often happens is one goes through much of life, patting himself/herself on the back for all the money not wasted on health insurance. And then something serious happens and that person is in deep trouble. Statistics also indicate that as we get older, our medical needs and costs only increase, often dramatically.

Like some other forms of insurance I pay my premiums and hope that I am wasting my money and will never need the insurance. Those premiums do allow me to take responsibility for my own financial and medical needs and not push that responsibility on to others.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[tonray]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

Totally agree. I wouldn't trust many insurance companies with something as important as my life. I also have the cash to pay and so far am ahead of the game. Nonetheless , a few years back I was hospitalized for a week and needed a minor op. On entering the private hospital I was asked how I intended to pay. When I said cash and proved it I was admitted immediately. In the same room were lots of foreigners in various kinds of distress waiting whilst the secretaries phoned various insurance companies to clarify coverage. It looked like a long drawn out wait with a lot of disappointed people.

Then just say cash now and work the claim out later.. If your an inpatient you have time..

I just have a personal issue with insurance.. I refuse collectivised systems as much as a modern human can.. Pensions, social insurance, etc etc.. I have none of them, never claim any benefits even when entitled, etc etc. Leave me alone I leave you alone.

So what happens to your supposedly 'refused' pension ? BTW, where i come from a pension is earned by years of working not given as a gift.

[LivinLOS]

typically people are kept alive in a sickly state for a decade or more after the incident.

Not if you dont have insurance

Without sounding more odd that I already am, I dont have any fear of death, none.. I have no children to worry about.. My wife would receive far more money in a trust than she has any idea what to do with.. and I have no commitments to keep me here at all and have lived my life exactly how I wanted every day. I would FAR prefer a nice clean death, even today, than lingering injury or illness.. If it came to it, I would make sure of that myself.

And the real kicker is if you die tomorrow...the 5 mil ain't doing you any good.

Why do you assume its not achieving returns.. I have many liquid investments that I can cash out of and have in my Thai accounts in under 48h. The one concern, is possibly being in a coma or something and the hospital not being sure of the payment. Thats a potential pitfall to the ability to pay, them not knowing I have the ability.

[LivinLOS]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

Totally agree. I wouldn't trust many insurance companies with something as important as my life. I also have the cash to pay and so far am ahead of the game. Nonetheless , a few years back I was hospitalized for a week and needed a minor op. On entering the private hospital I was asked how I intended to pay. When I said cash and proved it I was admitted immediately. In the same room were lots of foreigners in various kinds of distress waiting whilst the secretaries phoned various insurance companies to clarify coverage. It looked like a long drawn out wait with a lot of disappointed people.

Then just say cash now and work the claim out later.. If your an inpatient you have time..

I just have a personal issue with insurance.. I refuse collectivised systems as much as a modern human can.. Pensions, social insurance, etc etc.. I have none of them, never claim any benefits even when entitled, etc etc. Leave me alone I leave you alone.

So what happens to your supposedly 'refused' pension ? BTW, where i come from a pension is earned by years of working not given as a gift.

Getting off topic but..

It will go to the state coffers.. I left my country of birth at 3.. I left my country of citizenship at 22.. I want nothing more from them than a passport every few years.

I refuse to contribute to any voluntary pension plans, if I have to pay extra tax to get it now, I take it now, I manage my own finance and savings and do not trust any government promise on later, better rewards. I manage whats mine, all I ask is to be left as alone as a modern government allows.

[ramrod711]

I have a pre existing medical condition (diabetes) which makes it way too expensive to buy medical insurance, if I could get it at all. I have accident insurance, a good pension and money put aside for surgeries, but if I was in a situation like Colinneil it might be difficult financially.

[bluebluewater]

I do not have insurance.

I wish I did but with my pre existing conditions of HBP and cholesterol and the medications that I take for them I'm pretty much NOT going to covered under the various policies as I understand them even though those conditions are well controlled by taking the medications and I'm in excellent health today.

I've looked into it several times with different companies and I keep coming to the same conclusion that even though they would be glad to take my money up front, should I have a heart attack, aneurysm, or stroke (the three biggest things that usually befall men in their 60's+) then I would not be covered.

I have very excellent coverage for the motorcycle (THE biggest risk we all face) and I'll have to foot the bill for anything else.

Edited April 7, 2016 by bluebluewater

[Naam]

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

Yes, about right or a bit more if in a higher end (price wise) hospital. But that's for just one op. Imagine needing several operations for the same event as does happen. And prolonged ICU stay.

1-2 million per event at a government hospital. 5 mill if private. We have a member ion this board who recently racked up >3 million in a single hospitalization (without major complications, but 2 big specialized surgeries) in a private hospital, and I have seen far, far worse especially after major accidents with multiple trauma. Luckily he was well insured.

How many times in the past year have we had threads running about appeals for money to pay an uninsured farang's hospital bill? Several, at least.

top of the line pacemaker ฿800k, surgery and 2 days ICU ฿340k = ฿1.14million (october 2015 in BPH).

[KC 71]

There is no insurance

[KC 71]

The only sure thing is that one day you will meet the big fella!