Leasing a bar in Koh Chang

[sandrabbit]

as Crowded House sang, 'don't Dream It's Over'

[qwertymerk]

Change of plan.

One of my Thai friends who owns a bar in Koh Chang has told me I can buy into partnership with him for 150,000 baht (for refurbishment). He's been running the bar for 15 years but hasn't got that kind of money lying around to refurbish the bar and make the bar better at the moment so that may be why. He's also getting old and would prefer a bit of help running the bar.

I've spoken to my lawyer at AAA Legal Advisors (based in Bangkok and been running for 27 years) and he has said he thinks it's a great idea. Profits will be split 50/50 and the agreement is that if I walk out, I'm not entitled to anything in the bar. Little money lost if anything goes wrong and I can see what it's really like to run a bar and get some experience from it.

So let me understand something. This guy has owned this bar for 15 years and couldn't save 150000 bht. Now you want to join him and you have to split these money. Actually you splitting the money that doesnt exist. Are you thinking straight?

That plan has changed too lol. To be honest, the whole thread is a shambles and my mind is puzzled mate.

• I started reading this thread and am willing to impart my own experience, I owned a bar in Pattaya, back in the seventies - was fairly successful, made 50 times my monthly salary as an Army NCO, owned it for almost six years, then it got too hard to manage - so I sold it for 10 times I paid for it. Let the naysayers throw stones, I don't care.
• Your first plan got many responses with good advice, write the best ones down and stick with them!!!
• Your second plan - FORGET IT. while it may seem the cheaper way to go - Friends don't remain friends long when they go into business together, especially if one or the other needs the money to live on - I will explain my reasons.
• I owned my place for three years alone, solely mine with a lawyer's name as the 51% but he also did business with virtually every American in Pattaya that owned businesses - he was trustworthy. The fourth year I was transferred to Europe, it became harder & harder to pop in to check the books, so I took on a partner, who I had known for five years, he was single at the time, he got married and his wife took over management of the books. The books were just too neat and accurate for me, when you own a business there are going to be some mistakes, broken furniture, pilferage, miscalculations, my deposits into the bank were perfect every time, etc etc etc. so I immediately suspected her cooking the books.
• She wanted a new contact 50/50 split, and a salary, I said no, my contract with him was 75/25 after bills/staff were paid, I had my own cashier, own staff, etc etc He didn't have the authority to fire anyone, he was strictly an investor,and he wanted a place to go after work. Like I said, he was a friend
• One thing led to another, so the beginning of the sixth year I sold the place out from under everyone to a Japanese guy who was buying up everything in Pattaya he could find, hence he gave me 10 times my initial investment, because of the location............with the agreement he would keep the staff on for at least six months . I gave the other guy his 25% and left Thailand. If loos could kill, the stink eye his wife gave me would have dropped me dead in my tracks.

Now, as I said, the Thia man who owns the failing business and offered you a stake for an 'investment' - I wouldn't do it, you are nothing more than a cash cow, there will be many instances of More Money, More Money, More Money - + he can sell it out from under you, at any time, unless you get a contract that he can't sell it without your signature - which is actually worthless in Thailand.

• Stick to your original plan, hire good staff, make them open a Bank account for direct deposit, no cash salary. I opened a group acct in both mine and their names, I deposited money in that acct 50% additional salary to keep them honest, so they wouldn't quit after working a couple months. That bank acct needed mine & my lawyers signature and could not be drawn on but three times a year April, Aug & Dec - the money was split amongst the staff, a running tally was on a board for all to see, it became a game to them.
• Look at the other bars in town, you need to do somthing they don't, and stick with it. My gaff was the Coldest beer you could get, 60's & 70's music, and American Hot Dog's. Every Wednesday night was Chicken Wings night 10 bath apiece ( back then it was 20 baht a $$) - it really packed them in. Maybe install some good Dart Boards, if one hasn't started yet, start a darts league for two, three nights a week.............you want to have somthing the regular customers can look forward too. Everyone has a general menu with all sorts of Fahlung food on it, you need to specialize, Who does;t like a good pizza and a cold beer. They will say - Lets go down to qwertymerks place for a few and a slice.

Enough for me, I'll have another beer and a Slice Thank You,

Well thanks for such a detailed response. That just about sums it up for me haha. Now that's the 'easy' part, opening the bar. The next part is the location of the bar. Where I plan to lease the bar, the whole place is so shady and the bar owners are all against each other and there's always confrontation. Me being a farang, I'm basically nothing to them and an easy target by the locals. It sounds like this isn't the right sort of business for me. I'm not well connected and during my last trip to Koh Chang I witnessed some terrible things. My Thai girlfriend was getting hounded by all of the Thai guys and it was only thanks to the owner of the small bar that nothing got out of hand. And when I say terrible, I mean terrible. I'm probably being stupid for even debating going back there.

[geisha]

In think the problèm with Koh Chang is that it attracts an older tourist , mostly couples, and families. When I've walked past the sorry looking bars, I see a few lonely men hugging a beer. Then a few with girls, definitely no beauty queens. All those bars look old and dilapidated . I imagine that a nice looking place with comfy chairs , cushions, a load of nice plants in good pots( cheap) , a price list on the tables ( I hate not knowing the prices when I go in a bar!) , clean waiters/ waitresses , also coffees and teas to attract the couples, fresh coconut water, mango with sticky rice, plate of fruit, fresh juices. Newspapers, magazines ( for when it rains) . See what customers you can attract, then you'll know what to serve them. Also , you have to think of the rainy season, and the high season where everyone is spending their evenings in the beach restaurants. How to lure them to your place is the question.

Good luck.

[BritTim]

^^ oh dear ,

15 years running the bar and does not have 150kthb saved .

Must be a popular and profitable bar don't you think ?

Actually, a farang greeter might be what is needed to increase revenue to the point where the bar is decently profitable. It seems a reasonable risk if you have known the Thai long enough to know if he can be trusted. Once the money has been spent on refurbishment, there is no real protection. The 50-50 profit share is more than fair if you are sure you know the true numbers, not otherwise.

[qwertymerk]

If you shouldn't buy property in Thailand, and shouldn't do business in Thailand, what are you lot doing here?

[elgenon]

Does the place has a staff that stays? If not forget it. Getting reliable staff will be your biggest issue.

If your idea it to get by, forget it. It will cost you 2 million baht to stay 1 year in business. You will need about 100,000 baht a month to pay the wages/rent/electricity. Say you have 40 baht profit per beer bottle. You have to sell 2500 bottles a month

Food has a much higher markup. Even soda does.

[Koosdedooes]

If you shouldn't buy property in Thailand, and shouldn't do business in Thailand, what are you lot doing here?

You need to ask that question ? The answer is obvious what they are doing here

[howzat]

hope you still there at Xmas when we go . Any name and is it near Emerald Cove hotel.

[blackjack69]

If the Thai people don't want it , be very aware and think again !

[jacksam]

I have to wonder if many of the above posters have been to koh Chang often or even at all.

Take "little pattaya" white sands beach. There is hardly anyone in the bars. They rarely have a customer there till late arvo. Night times you see many bars empty. Most customers are older guys like myself. Not often buy lady drinks.

The couples spend time in the many cafes. Younger crowd spend time in the bigger venues with music. The xpat community is just not big enough to be source of "regulars".

Also unlike pattata there are many cafes on beach. Same as koh samed.

Could not think of worse place to own a bar.

OP if you really keen on having a bar look elsewhere. Udon thani (only one example) has bars that struggle but has big xpat community and relaxed scene. Have pool comps etc.

Good luck

[The Big Mango]

If you shouldn't buy property in Thailand, and shouldn't do business in Thailand, what are you lot doing here?

Well for me (amongst other members of TV), bought a property and have a buisiness .

So it is possible OP just come up with a viable buisiness that suits You.

[qwertymerk]

I have to wonder if many of the above posters have been to koh Chang often or even at all.

Take "little pattaya" white sands beach. There is hardly anyone in the bars. They rarely have a customer there till late arvo. Night times you see many bars empty. Most customers are older guys like myself. Not often buy lady drinks.

The couples spend time in the many cafes. Younger crowd spend time in the bigger venues with music. The xpat community is just not big enough to be source of "regulars".

Also unlike pattata there are many cafes on beach. Same as koh samed.

Could not think of worse place to own a bar.

OP if you really keen on having a bar look elsewhere. Udon thani (only one example) has bars that struggle but has big xpat community and relaxed scene. Have pool comps etc.

Good luck

Well there's got to be some kind of business opportunities in Koh Chang, I recognise a lot of the same farangs still there every time I visit. Lonely Beach is always busy, bizarre considering the name lol but it is.

[qwertymerk]

If you shouldn't buy property in Thailand, and shouldn't do business in Thailand, what are you lot doing here?

Well for me (amongst other members of TV), bought a property and have a buisiness .

So it is possible OP just come up with a viable buisiness that suits You.

Yeah man thanks. Seems like I have the get up and go but no solid plan lol.

[Chongalulu]

I was in Ko Chang over Xmas peak season when the accommodation was quite full but every bar I saw was dead every night and half of them up for sale. Run away!

[qwertymerk]

Cheers guys. A lot learned from this thread.

[impulse]

Having only been to Koh Chang one time (well, 2 actually- my first and my last- on the same long weekend), my business plan would be to hire a smoking hot babe, put her on a bicycle with an ice box on it and have her sell ice cold beer and ice cream to the poor schlepps in their cars in line to get on the ferry. I suspect she'd make more in a few hours a weekend than a mediocre bar would make in a week.

I waited in that line for a couple of hours and vowed it would be a long time before I'd put up with that drive from BKK just for a long weekend. Spent way more time on the road than in my kayak. I'd have gladly paid the foreigner price for an ice cream waiting in the hot sun.

Shame really, because I truly liked the place.

BTW, that's not advice. I took the oath in the '80's and haven't had a drink in a bar in decades. I don't even know what they're serving nowadays...

Edited May 1, 2016 by impulse

[WishWashMan]

• I started reading this thread and am willing to impart my own experience, I owned a bar in Pattaya, back in the seventies - was fairly successful, made 50 times my monthly salary as an Army NCO, owned it for almost six years, then it got too hard to manage - so I sold it for 10 times I paid for it. Let the naysayers throw stones, I don't care.
• Your first plan got many responses with good advice, write the best ones down and stick with them!!!
• Your second plan - FORGET IT. while it may seem the cheaper way to go - Friends don't remain friends long when they go into business together, especially if one or the other needs the money to live on - I will explain my reasons.
• I owned my place for three years alone, solely mine with a lawyer's name as the 51% but he also did business with virtually every American in Pattaya that owned businesses - he was trustworthy. The fourth year I was transferred to Europe, it became harder & harder to pop in to check the books, so I took on a partner, who I had known for five years, he was single at the time, he got married and his wife took over management of the books. The books were just too neat and accurate for me, when you own a business there are going to be some mistakes, broken furniture, pilferage, miscalculations, my deposits into the bank were perfect every time, etc etc etc. so I immediately suspected her cooking the books.
• She wanted a new contact 50/50 split, and a salary, I said no, my contract with him was 75/25 after bills/staff were paid, I had my own cashier, own staff, etc etc He didn't have the authority to fire anyone, he was strictly an investor,and he wanted a place to go after work. Like I said, he was a friend
• One thing led to another, so the beginning of the sixth year I sold the place out from under everyone to a Japanese guy who was buying up everything in Pattaya he could find, hence he gave me 10 times my initial investment, because of the location............with the agreement he would keep the staff on for at least six months . I gave the other guy his 25% and left Thailand. If loos could kill, the stink eye his wife gave me would have dropped me dead in my tracks.

Now, as I said, the Thia man who owns the failing business and offered you a stake for an 'investment' - I wouldn't do it, you are nothing more than a cash cow, there will be many instances of More Money, More Money, More Money - + he can sell it out from under you, at any time, unless you get a contract that he can't sell it without your signature - which is actually worthless in Thailand.

• Stick to your original plan, hire good staff, make them open a Bank account for direct deposit, no cash salary. I opened a group acct in both mine and their names, I deposited money in that acct 50% additional salary to keep them honest, so they wouldn't quit after working a couple months. That bank acct needed mine & my lawyers signature and could not be drawn on but three times a year April, Aug & Dec - the money was split amongst the staff, a running tally was on a board for all to see, it became a game to them.
• Look at the other bars in town, you need to do somthing they don't, and stick with it. My gaff was the Coldest beer you could get, 60's & 70's music, and American Hot Dog's. Every Wednesday night was Chicken Wings night 10 bath apiece ( back then it was 20 baht a $$) - it really packed them in. Maybe install some good Dart Boards, if one hasn't started yet, start a darts league for two, three nights a week.............you want to have somthing the regular customers can look forward too. Everyone has a general menu with all sorts of Fahlung food on it, you need to specialize, Who does;t like a good pizza and a cold beer. They will say - Lets go down to qwertymerks place for a few and a slice.

Enough for me, I'll have another beer and a Slice Thank You,

My Thai girlfriend was getting hounded by all of the Thai guys and it was only thanks to the owner of the small bar that nothing got out of hand. And when I say terrible, I mean terrible. I'm probably being stupid for even debating going back there.

I am serious when i mentioned earlier about finding a new girl. A girl hounded by thai men is prolly up to her ears in BAD DEALINGS. An ex of bad dealing is getting a farang to open up business-it tells a lot about her integrity-she has none.

@ best youll lose money @ worst youll lose your life.

[Lukecan]

Okay, let's say I scrap the bar idea. What other business opportunities do I have in Koh Chang?

Because from what most of you have said, it seems impossible to run a business in Thailand.

Continue with your original plan, take the TEFL course

Become an English teacher, earn 30-60k/baht a month.

Invest your money in blue chip thai stocks, reinvest dividends.

Do not start business in a country where you dont get to own the business, unless you are American you are entitled to only own 49% of the said business.

Good luck.

[Lukecan]

Here is a piece of advice,what ever business you want to do make sure it is a townhouse kind of building.

Business downstairs,live upstairs,that way you won't have to pay rent twice.

Starting up a new bar is a lot cheaper then taking over something that is already up and running.I have seen people pay 400 000 baht for an old fridge and a bunch of junk furniture.

Start up a new bar,sell it in high season,that is how you make money!!

Do not drink in your own bar,never.

This way you will make sure you are not your own best customer.

It can be done but be very careful.

Lol this actually sounds like a good plan.

[impulse]

Here is a piece of advice,what ever business you want to do make sure it is a townhouse kind of building.

Business downstairs,live upstairs,that way you won't have to pay rent twice.

Starting up a new bar is a lot cheaper then taking over something that is already up and running.I have seen people pay 400 000 baht for an old fridge and a bunch of junk furniture.

Start up a new bar,sell it in high season,that is how you make money!!

Do not drink in your own bar,never.

Variation on that theme (taking a little bit of the piss now) Same setup, but rent out the upstairs. Either short term via AirBNB to tourists who will end up being great customers, VERY short term (wink, wink), or long term to someone that's always wanted to live over a bar. It's not for me, but I know a few guys who would appreciate (and pay extra for) the convenience and safety of no commuting back home drunk every night.

Living over your own place of work is great for some folks, and the budget. But never getting away from the "office" can be the difference between going crazy or being happy.

Edited May 2, 2016 by impulse

[ThaiPauly]

I understand what a lot of you are saying in terms of paying off the police and surviving low season etc.

However, as for the girlfriend, she has never mentioned the idea of moving to Koh Chang, she is quite happy doing whatever she wants, she has been a hairdresser all her life and hasn't even pushed me to make the slightest decision in running a business.

I will speak to some more friends on the island and try and get in contact with some farang business owners over there. Every time I have been there, I have noticed a South African guy running his bar every time successfully, and his bar is located in a quieter area than I plan to run mine.

Speak to Jasper, owner of the Mojito bar in Kia Bae. He has been doing biz tgere for at least 6 years, a good guy he will point you in the right direction

[ThaiPauly]

Dear OP,as a bar owner in Pattaya for 5 years there is a lot i can advise you about.The places business wise are not too dissimilar, There is a lot you need to know.Too much to put here.If you want to pm me i will be only too glad to help you in the right direction But you must be prepared to read some stuff that you might not be ready for or like.But its the truth.

My son has a bar on Walking Street Pattsya and he does very, very well. If you come up with the right model anything is possible, don't listen to ALL the naysayers...but it'all about what you can offer that you can offer that other bars cannot. Once you have worked this out you could be onto a winner...but take your time, do not rush, think What can I do different?

Good luck

[maprao]

Looking forward to seeing an update from the op on how he is getting on.

[Colabamumbai]

Remember the golden rule. Do not invest more that you are prepared to lose.