Best place to live? Really?

[The manic]

It's subjective. It's objective. There are things you can measure but each individual has their own priorities. For example a place with a hot employment market might be a negative to a retired person. Pleasant temperate weather wouldn't work for a skiing nut. Etc.

On the other hand, a place like Aleppo Syria would probably only be best for a war photographer ...

Aleppo must be pretty grim right now.

To answer the OP, most towns and cities in Thailand are dumps.

Thailand-based expats lie: they lie to each other; they lie to themselves,

They repeat ad-nauseum how happy they are and how wonderful their lives are. You don't need to be a psychologist to see through the shit.

===

People in Monte Carlo live their lives; expats in Thailand talk about their lives.

Monte Carlo! What decade do you live in? People who live in Monte Carlo come here for fun. Bangkok is great or used to be until the recent coup. I rarely talk about my life in Thailand to my UK mates nor did I talk about my time on the MENA region. Thailand is great fun. I have a jolly good time here more so than any other of the 50 countries I have been to. Most other places are boring and expensive.

[The manic]

Best place to stay, must surely be at home with family in any country

But not everybody enjoys family life. They fin it claustrophobic - limiting - and neurotic.

[The manic]

No really. I like it here.

But would you feel the same if your IQ were greater than 150?

Why dismiss, with an insult, a commonly held view? Bangkok is am enjoyable city. And I testing is a doubtful science.

[The manic]

No really. I like it here.

But would you feel the same if your IQ were greater than 150?

I've no idea what my IQ is. IQ tests are an intellectual dick-ruler for the insecure.

Thanks for the helpful advice. Is there anything you could recommend for the emotionally insecure?

Why are you bickering? Please keep to the thread please.

[StreetCowboy]

I went back to the UK recently. It was expensive and kind of boring, but that's about it.

The last couple of times I've been back the weather's been great.

I had a short trip back in 2012, and apart from eighty minutes of absolute pish that had even the princess-royal in tears, I had the best week away for many a long year.m Cracking crisp clear weather, and a great opportunity to wear my gloves, clap my little paws together and chortle gleefully to myself.

And even in the airport you could get a decent pint of beer for two pounds.

None of my subsequent trips back have been quite as uproariously gleeful, but it's always nice to keep in touch with family and friends, and the weather has generally been fair.

Thanks for the opportunity to remember that I have to renew old acquaintances... I'm looking forward to another short visit this coming August

SC

[KNJ]

When I lived in Sweden it was the best for women and beer

When I lived in Finland it was the best for women and beer

When I lived in Thailand it was the best for women and beer

When I lived in Japan it was the best for women and beer

When I lived in Taiwan it was the best for women and beer

When I lived in Vietnam it was the best for women and beer

When I lived in Indonesia it was the best for women and beer

Now I work in Saudi.... nothing much to say about this

[The manic]

I love Bangkok. It's my favorite place to be in the world. I lived there for six years, and returned to my home country to a job that will provide me with decent retirement income. In 10 years, I'll be moving back to Bangkok.

First of all, I love big cities. I love them for the energy, for the diversity, for the convenience and availability of goods and services.

I love the transportation system in Thailand; it's so much more diverse and efficient than what we have where I'm from (the US). It's particularly good in Bangkok...there are so many ways to get around. And while it's not the best walking city in the world, by any means, it works well enough for me. When I'm there, I average 10-15k a day walking.

I like the availability and diversity of food--not just Thai food, but food from all over the world.

I like the way that knowing Thai language opens so many doors, and makes one feel so welcome. There are other countries in Southeast Asia where I speak the language better than I speak Thai, but I don't feel as welcome there, and I don't feel that my knowledge of the language gets me as far, socially.

I love the many immigrants from Isaan in particular. I hang out with them often and have a great time. I don't generally hang out with working class people in my own country.

I won't lie, I love the bars and the nightlife. Something else I never partake of in my own country.

I like the way age is, for the most part, respected in Thai culture, the polar opposite of the US. Granted, this would be true anywhere in Thailand, not just Bangkok.

There are things that annoy me about Bangkok, and Thai culture in general, and of course about the military dictatorship...but there are things that would annoy me everywhere. I can deal with them.

Everyone's different, and wants and expects different things out of a place to live. But for me, in Bangkok, the plusses far exceed the minuses.

I feel the same as you for the same reasons and I did the same as you. I lived in BKK for a while then left with the intention of making enough money to live there permanently. I did so. But eventually moved to pattaya after 10 years. I travel a lot round Thailand not just stay in one place.

[The manic]

It's subjective. It's objective. There are things you can measure but each individual has their own priorities. For example a place with a hot employment market might be a negative to a retired person. Pleasant temperate weather wouldn't work for a skiing nut. Etc.

On the other hand, a place like Aleppo Syria would probably only be best for a war photographer ...

Aleppo must be pretty grim right now.

To answer the OP, most towns and cities in Thailand are dumps.

Thailand-based expats lie: they lie to each other; they lie to themselves,

They repeat ad-nauseum how happy they are and how wonderful their lives are. You don't need to be a psychologist to see through the shit.

===

People in Monte Carlo live their lives; expats in Thailand talk about their lives.

NATO and assorted affiliates can be proud of themselves........plenty of construction billions for Halliburton.....and this is just one street,in one town F.........g butchers.

Another Spartist ignores the role of Arabs and assorted Muslim affiliates in their own self destruction. Yawn.

[SoiBiker]

I went back to the UK recently. It was expensive and kind of boring, but that's about it.

The last couple of times I've been back the weather's been great.

I had a short trip back in 2012, and apart from eighty minutes of absolute pish that had even the princess-royal in tears, I had the best week away for many a long year.m Cracking crisp clear weather, and a great opportunity to wear my gloves, clap my little paws together and chortle gleefully to myself.

And even in the airport you could get a decent pint of beer for two pounds.

None of my subsequent trips back have been quite as uproariously gleeful, but it's always nice to keep in touch with family and friends, and the weather has generally been fair.

Thanks for the opportunity to remember that I have to renew old acquaintances... I'm looking forward to another short visit this coming August

SC

A pint for 2 quid?

Are you sure that was 2012, not 1982?

[The manic]

It's subjective. It's objective. There are things you can measure but each individual has their own priorities. For example a place with a hot employment market might be a negative to a retired person. Pleasant temperate weather wouldn't work for a skiing nut. Etc.

On the other hand, a place like Aleppo Syria would probably only be best for a war photographer ...

Aleppo must be pretty grim right now.

To answer the OP, most towns and cities in Thailand are dumps.

Thailand-based expats lie: they lie to each other; they lie to themselves,

They repeat ad-nauseum how happy they are and how wonderful their lives are. You don't need to be a psychologist to see through the shit.

===

People in Monte Carlo live their lives; expats in Thailand talk about their lives.

Yes.... comparing to the best city to live in

Your photo shows Chiang Mai.

I've never understood why people view that city as anything other than a dump.

Same goes for most of Thailand's north and northeast.

But ..... I've often thought Nong Khai and Mukdahan are quite nice.

And Roi et.

[The manic]

It's subjective. It's objective. There are things you can measure but each individual has their own priorities. For example a place with a hot employment market might be a negative to a retired person. Pleasant temperate weather wouldn't work for a skiing nut. Etc.

On the other hand, a place like Aleppo Syria would probably only be best for a war photographer ...

Aleppo must be pretty grim right now.

To answer the OP, most towns and cities in Thailand are dumps.

Thailand-based expats lie: they lie to each other; they lie to themselves,

They repeat ad-nauseum how happy they are and how wonderful their lives are. You don't need to be a psychologist to see through the shit.

===

People in Monte Carlo live their lives; expats in Thailand talk about their lives.

NATO and assorted affiliates can be proud of themselves........plenty of construction billions for Halliburton.....and this is just one street,in one town F.........g butchers.

You haven't read news since 2007??

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-halliburton-kbr-idUSN0523848520070405

I read the "news" everyday, so what about Halliburton who gives a f...k whether they are going to do the reconstruction, NATO and its dodgy mercenary goons were responsible for this destruction and some Yank outfit will benifit from the rebuilding.....thats the way they operate...win win situation for the perps. and utter disaster for the unfortunate brown people who once occupied these towns.

It was the people in these towns that started a civil war and their leader who barrel bombed them to hell. How do you get to be so misinformed?

[The manic]

This one is a no brainer.

Pattaya, the City of Love, is the best city in the world by a mile. I have a feeling that when I die and go to heaven, it will be a let down after living here.

Has EVERYTHING, cheap and cheerful. Warm weather year round, international food, 27 golf courses, three water parks and the best gogos in the world bar none. Nice and compact, easy to get around.

I don't know what karma I collected in my previous life, but think I must have been Mother Theresa or something.

I thank the good lord everyday for leading me to this great city. What a place!!

If there was a better place I would leave tomorrow, but no such place exists.

You are absolutely correct about Pattaya - Always something to do -Always something happening - the surrounding countryside has countless places of interest. Great nightlife- bars- girls-clubs - restaurants -shopping - what's not to like? Most people who criticise Pattaya have never been here!

[The manic]

There is clearly no universal "best place" to live. There are better and worse places. Aleppo does not look wonderful today but is an ancient city that was quite a good place to live for many people for centuries. If you are single then there is a set of choices. If you have a family and ties, there is another. If you are raising and educating children a different set. As some of you know we are leaving Thailand for certainly somewhile because we have decided that for the children there are "better" places to be a teenager. We are lucky we can choose. We have homes in Wales, France, Chiang Mai and Nakhon Phanom where we have been living. We left Phuket because, again, in spite of its attraction we thought it no longer a good place to live; much the same about Chiang Mai. Nakhon Phanom is great. It has an airport and most of what you want plus the amazing river Mekong. Can be in Laos in a few minutes and at the sea in Vietnam in a few hours and 1 hour to BKK. But you would not say it is anything other much than boring!! Of course I don't want gogos and Foodland or Villa Market. But with kids you are looking for safety, friends, community, family and naturally education. Mrs was of the view that "peacefulness" is one of the most important reasons foreigners choose to live here. However she has changed her mind. Pulled the kids out of a fairground the other night where a teenage knife and gun battle was escalating. Hence, in part, the decision to leave. And, of course, money enters into it! I have no idea how we are going to create/recreate the Mekong lifestyle in the South of France. Never tried! Though the kids found a Lao grocery in Lyon!

You won't find France any more peaceful than Thailand. Good luck.

[The manic]

Just curious, who is supporting your "kid" at home

While you look for a perfect place to live...Welfare

Or your parents

What is the meaning of this snarky, impertinent comment?

[The manic]

Im born and raised in Sweden by Serbian parents. Living 4 years in Thailand and go every year to Serbia. Sweden gives me the social security, free hospitals and schools but also no sun, cold weather, boring asocial people and its a police state meaning you cant fart without getting fined.Sweden is soon compared to an arabic country with soon to be more moskes than churches. Serbia is cheaper than Thailand and i just love it there. Mentaly and socially i connect so easy with the Serbian people and wonder many times why i never really moved there. But i prefer Thailand even if i have to fight with immigration, fines everywhere, corrupt police. Need extra insurances which get expensive. I always liked the Asian girls, the sun and hot weather make me feel good. Its cheap when you learn how to. Phuket to expensive and actually small. Bkk to big and like 1h driving wherever you go (booring) In Pattaya i have everything.

I agree and I too find Serbia a great place and when I am not in Thailand I head to Serbia.

[The manic]

Besides, have you ever been to Monte Carlo? It's kind of boring.

Yep -- I thought it was great. Ditto Provence, San Remo, Tuscany and places over by the Bay of Biscay.

There are lots of beautiful places in Europe.

I don't get why people feel offended when I point out that Thailand, by contrast, is basically a dump. Perhaps people like to deceive themselves!

Not really offended but your opinion is wrong. Thailand is not a dump. It is not Europe but it not a dump! Have you ever been to Birmingham, or Stockport?... or countless other northern towns to say nothing of the MENA region? Edited July 20, 2016 by The manic

[giddyup]

This one is a no brainer.

Pattaya, the City of Love, is the best city in the world by a mile. I have a feeling that when I die and go to heaven, it will be a let down after living here.

Has EVERYTHING, cheap and cheerful. Warm weather year round, international food, 27 golf courses, three water parks and the best gogos in the world bar none. Nice and compact, easy to get around.

I don't know what karma I collected in my previous life, but think I must have been Mother Theresa or something.

I thank the good lord everyday for leading me to this great city. What a place!!

If there was a better place I would leave tomorrow, but no such place exists.

You are absolutely correct about Pattaya - Always something to do -Always something happening - the surrounding countryside has countless places of interest. Great nightlife- bars- girls-clubs - restaurants -shopping - what's not to like? Most people who criticise Pattaya have never been here!

You mind listing some of the "countless places of interest"? I have been in Pats for over 6 years, visited the croc farm, tiger farm, Nong Nooch, floating market, all local, but haven't seen too much of interest in the countryside outside Pattaya, unless you mean towns like Rayong, Bang Saen, Bang Saray etc, which are hardly interesting.

[The manic]

I go back to the UK once a year to remind me how great Pattaya is. The UK is a miserable, PC, puritanical S**t hole. The lefties set the agenda and the agenda is an Islamic state. The buses in London are celebrating Ramadan with quotes from the the Koran. People are too scared to speak out. Weather dreadful, people broke and frightened and the place is so violent. Luton and other places are no go zones for white women and everybody just seems defeated. Its such a shame. The BBC pumps out endless propaganda about Diversity and Multiculturalism when what they really mean is anti white racism. I could go on but I wont oh the beer is expensive and so is housing.

If you were to expand your little mind and learn another language, perhaps you wouldn't be such a crotchety, negative racist.

I am neither racist or monolingual. I object to Marxist multiculturalism and the propaganda machine that promotes it. I object to the suppression of free speech and free thought that underpins this aberration. I and at least 52% of the populationew object to self hatred disguised as liberal tolerance. My view is shaped by my experience in over 50 countries. Please do not be upset that your world view is not universal and try not to be so crotchety at other people's opinions.

[The manic]

This one is a no brainer.

Pattaya, the City of Love, is the best city in the world by a mile. I have a feeling that when I die and go to heaven, it will be a let down after living here.

Has EVERYTHING, cheap and cheerful. Warm weather year round, international food, 27 golf courses, three water parks and the best gogos in the world bar none. Nice and compact, easy to get around.

I don't know what karma I collected in my previous life, but think I must have been Mother Theresa or something.

I thank the good lord everyday for leading me to this great city. What a place!!

If there was a better place I would leave tomorrow, but no such place exists.

Come on now, we're trying to have a (reasonably) serious thread here, no need for such sarcasm LOL, Pattaya??? you crack me up

Your limited imagination is demonstratedesigned by your use of emoticons. Pattaya is great fun. Have you ever been there?

[SoiBiker]

I go back to the UK once a year to remind me how great Pattaya is. The UK is a miserable, PC, puritanical S**t hole. The lefties set the agenda and the agenda is an Islamic state. The buses in London are celebrating Ramadan with quotes from the the Koran. People are too scared to speak out. Weather dreadful, people broke and frightened and the place is so violent. Luton and other places are no go zones for white women and everybody just seems defeated. Its such a shame. The BBC pumps out endless propaganda about Diversity and Multiculturalism when what they really mean is anti white racism. I could go on but I wont oh the beer is expensive and so is housing.

If you were to expand your little mind and learn another language, perhaps you wouldn't be such a crotchety, negative racist.

I am neither racist or monolingual. I object to Marxist multiculturalism and the propaganda machine that promotes it. I object to the suppression of free speech and free thought that underpins this aberration. I and at least 52% of the populationew object to self hatred disguised as liberal tolerance. My view is shaped by my experience in over 50 countries. Please do not be upset that your world view is not universal and try not to be so crotchety at other people's opinions.

Using a term like Marxist Multiculturalism is a bit of a giveaway, isn't it? It does rather give the impression that you don't know much about Marxism, but you're easily influenced by the kind of conspiracy theories espoused the more extreme elements of the American right wing.

[StreetCowboy]

I went back to the UK recently. It was expensive and kind of boring, but that's about it.

The last couple of times I've been back the weather's been great.

I had a short trip back in 2012, and apart from eighty minutes of absolute pish that had even the princess-royal in tears, I had the best week away for many a long year.m Cracking crisp clear weather, and a great opportunity to wear my gloves, clap my little paws together and chortle gleefully to myself.

And even in the airport you could get a decent pint of beer for two pounds.

None of my subsequent trips back have been quite as uproariously gleeful, but it's always nice to keep in touch with family and friends, and the weather has generally been fair.

Thanks for the opportunity to remember that I have to renew old acquaintances... I'm looking forward to another short visit this coming August

SC

A pint for 2 quid?

Are you sure that was 2012, not 1982?

I was amazed. And it was OK beer as well.

Elsewhere, I was paying half again or almost double.

But still comparable for comparable beer in Thailand, and less than I'm used to.

SC

[fasteddie]

This one is a no brainer.

Pattaya, the City of Love, is the best city in the world by a mile. I have a feeling that when I die and go to heaven, it will be a let down after living here.

Has EVERYTHING, cheap and cheerful. Warm weather year round, international food, 27 golf courses, three water parks and the best gogos in the world bar none. Nice and compact, easy to get around.

I don't know what karma I collected in my previous life, but think I must have been Mother Theresa or something.

I thank the good lord everyday for leading me to this great city. What a place!!

If there was a better place I would leave tomorrow, but no such place exists.

Come on now, we're trying to have a (reasonably) serious thread here, no need for such sarcasm LOL, Pattaya??? you crack me up

Your limited imagination is demonstratedesigned by your use of emoticons. Pattaya is great fun. Have you ever been there?

Only in 1966, 1988 and 2008, and yes it is great fun, if you're a drunken whore monger.

[fasteddie]

It's subjective. It's objective. There are things you can measure but each individual has their own priorities. For example a place with a hot employment market might be a negative to a retired person. Pleasant temperate weather wouldn't work for a skiing nut. Etc.

On the other hand, a place like Aleppo Syria would probably only be best for a war photographer ...

Aleppo must be pretty grim right now.

To answer the OP, most towns and cities in Thailand are dumps.

Thailand-based expats lie: they lie to each other; they lie to themselves,

They repeat ad-nauseum how happy they are and how wonderful their lives are. You don't need to be a psychologist to see through the shit.

===

People in Monte Carlo live their lives; expats in Thailand talk about their lives.

NATO and assorted affiliates can be proud of themselves........plenty of construction billions for Halliburton.....and this is just one street,in one town F.........g butchers.

Another Spartist ignores the role of Arabs and assorted Muslim affiliates in their own self destruction. Yawn.

Like Afghanistan who promised to hand over Bin Laden as soon as America provided proof he was involved in 9/11, which they didn't do and couldn't do of course so they got invaded.

Like Iraq which announced it was to trade oil in the euro so they got invaded.

Like Libya, the country with the highest standard of living in Africa, which announced it was to implement a gold standard African dinar and to trade oil in said dinar, so they got invaded.

Yep, they certainly did invite their own destruction, fancy wanting to be free and independent, just who do they think they are?

[pigeonjake]

Besides, have you ever been to Monte Carlo? It's kind of boring.

Yep -- I thought it was great. Ditto Provence, San Remo, Tuscany and places over by the Bay of Biscay.

There are lots of beautiful places in Europe.

I don't get why people feel offended when I point out that Thailand, by contrast, is basically a dump. Perhaps people like to deceive themselves!

Not really offended but your opinion is wrong. Thailand is not a dump. It is not Europe but it not a dump! Have you ever been to Birmingham, or Stockport?... or countless other northern towns to say nothing of the MENA region?

not just northern towns my friend,

have you seen round margate?

i lived in magate many years ago beautiful, now, well thats another story,

lincolnshire in the uk is a nice place, just in this moment in time i do prefare thailand,

many places have good and bad points, if your happy with were you are then thats the place for you

[Agent Sumo]

Why are you so angry? You seem so bitter and judgemental. And confused. Try and calm down and relax a bit and try not to be upset by the fact that some people do not share your world view.

Angry? Because I disagree with your simplistic assertions on the NHS and your puzzling, thinly-veiled disdain for the country that gave you the advantages you have?

It seems you're the bitter one since since you've taken it upon yourself to butt heads with every poster over the last page of this thread trying to foist your narrow, populist view of the world.

Put down the Daily Mail and try thinking for yourself

[The manic]

It's subjective. It's objective. There are things you can measure but each individual has their own priorities. For example a place with a hot employment market might be a negative to a retired person. Pleasant temperate weather wouldn't work for a skiing nut. Etc.

On the other hand, a place like Aleppo Syria would probably only be best for a war photographer ...

Aleppo must be pretty grim right now.

To answer the OP, most towns and cities in Thailand are dumps.

Thailand-based expats lie: they lie to each other; they lie to themselves,

They repeat ad-nauseum how happy they are and how wonderful their lives are. You don't need to be a psychologist to see through the shit.

===

People in Monte Carlo live their lives; expats in Thailand talk about their lives.

NATO and assorted affiliates can be proud of themselves........plenty of construction billions for Halliburton.....and this is just one street,in one town F.........g butchers.

Another Spartist ignores the role of Arabs and assorted Muslim affiliates in their own self destruction. Yawn.

Like Afghanistan who promised to hand over Bin Laden as soon as America provided proof he was involved in 9/11, which they didn't do and couldn't do of course so they got invaded.

Like Iraq which announced it was to trade oil in the euro so they got invaded.

Like Libya, the country with the highest standard of living in Africa, which announced it was to implement a gold standard African dinar and to trade oil in said dinar, so they got invaded.

Yep, they certainly did invite their own destruction, fancy wanting to be free and independent, just who do they think they are?

Libya! I lived and worked there for 8 years. Pitifully poor even by African standards. Corrupt with a terrified, depressed population. Grow up. You know nothing but leftist propaganda. As for Afghanistan - a benighted primitive dump. I've been there as well. The whole afghan population is not worth one drop of American or British blood. So you are right in one respect - we never should have invaded the place - just nuked it. As for Iraq - nobody forced the Sunni and Shia Muslims to murder each other continously for the last 5 years. Stop blaming the woes of MENA on the rest of the world and stop believing in left wing/ muslim propaganda. And stop sprouting it

.

[The manic]

I go back to the UK once a year to remind me how great Pattaya is. The UK is a miserable, PC, puritanical S**t hole. The lefties set the agenda and the agenda is an Islamic state. The buses in London are celebrating Ramadan with quotes from the the Koran. People are too scared to speak out. Weather dreadful, people broke and frightened and the place is so violent. Luton and other places are no go zones for white women and everybody just seems defeated. Its such a shame. The BBC pumps out endless propaganda about Diversity and Multiculturalism when what they really mean is anti white racism. I could go on but I wont oh the beer is expensive and so is housing.

If you were to expand your little mind and learn another language, perhaps you wouldn't be such a crotchety, negative racist.

I am neither racist or monolingual. I object to Marxist multiculturalism and the propaganda machine that promotes it. I object to the suppression of free speech and free thought that underpins this aberration. I and at least 52% of the populationew object to self hatred disguised as liberal tolerance. My view is shaped by my experience in over 50 countries. Please do not be upset that your world view is not universal and try not to be so crotchety at other people's opinions.

Using a term like Marxist Multiculturalism is a bit of a giveaway, isn't it? It does rather give the impression that you don't know much about Marxism, but you're easily influenced by the kind of conspiracy theories espoused the more extreme elements of the American right wing.

Most liberal ideas theses days are the rag tag ideas of trotskyikes and assorted left wing nutcases. I probably know more about Marxism than they or you. The last labour cabinet had ex SWP members who pushed through an extreme left agenda disguised as liberal values and tolerance. The current labour party leader has a Marxist past and quotes Mao in Parliament. This is not conspiracy theory it's because it's not covert - it's in the open just as mass uncontrolled immigration is on view and not secret. Do your research a bit better please. Many current trends destroying the UK have their roots in extreme left wing ideas.

[SoiBiker]

As I thought - no idea.

[fasteddie]

Most liberal ideas theses days are the rag tag ideas of trotskyikes and assorted left wing nutcases. I probably know more about Marxism than they or you. The last labour cabinet had ex SWP members who pushed through an extreme left agenda disguised as liberal values and tolerance. The current labour party leader has a Marxist past and quotes Mao in Parliament. This is not conspiracy theory it's because it's not covert - it's in the open just as mass uncontrolled immigration is on view and not secret. Do your research a bit better please. Many current trends destroying the UK have their roots in extreme left wing ideas.

You are unbelievably pig ignorant, Gordon Brown's cabinet was extreme left was it? just a stupid statement like that shows how ignorant you are. What's destroying the UK and the rest of the world is the biggest ponzi scheme ever, Capitalism.

[JB300]

Meanwhile back on planet Topic, I saw Vienna has been voted the World's most "Livable" City... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/the-worlds-most-liveable-cities/

Know nothing about the place (except the Ultravox song) but always thought it looked a nice place to explore for a while, anybody here that's from/lived there & would care to comment?

Edited July 21, 2016 by JB300