Should Corbyn Quit or Be Pushed, as Leader of the UK Labour Party ?

[Deepinthailand]

Don't need to watch that. Very easy comparison. Blair a fool easily led made a wrong decision at the time but patriotic.

Corbyn a two faced liar, a traitor who wants nothing good for UK exept to help his IRA scum friends. Easy really

But completely wrong.

I actually wonder how anyone could have all the facts 180 degrees wrong.

In your opinion of course. I knew of Corbyn in the 70/80' when he hated and worked against the government in ways that if done 20 yrs before would have seen him hang. I've seen him laugh and clap with IRA murderers at deaths of British service. A leopard never changes it's spots, so please no preaching to me how good he is for the UK

I think Corbyn is a total twonk, but not responsible for harming anyone.

Unlike the evil Blair who was directly responsible for the deaths of 500,000 people, just because he wanted to suck up to Bush.

Get real

Socialist Vs war criminal, one is harmless, one is evil.

If you really belive Corbyn didn't harm anyone you are completely and utterly wrong. You have or seem to have an agenda so I will bow out of this not willing or wanting to give any time of day to the waster Corbyn.

Blair is not a war criminal never been indicted and never will be read the chilcot report first before accusing a man of that.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[MissAndry]

You have or seem to have an agenda so I will bow out of this

Happy for you to bow out, as you seem to know nothing about it. My agenda was to correct your ignorance on Blair Vs Corbyn.

I think they're both total shits, but Blair was a dangerous self serving lying murderous shit while Corbyn was a totally harmless but essentially honest if slightly misled shit.

Edited July 14, 2016 by MissAndry

[Ricardo]

Interesting goings-on during the Labour leadership-campaign ...

"A man has been arrested on suspicion of making death threats to Labour Party leadership contender Angela Eagle."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-36807022

and "The Labour Party has suspended its Brighton and Hove branch amid claims of bullying and intimidation at its annual general meeting (AGM).

The election of a new executive committee (EC), which saw supporters of party leader Jeremy Corbyn voted into five top positions, was also annulled.

"

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-36804987

[Ricardo]

Owen Smith interviewed by Andrew Marr, says top-rate of Income-Tax should be increased.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36818050

[elliss]

Blair a war criminal ? Corbyn a believer in Democracy ,??

Whatever next . gbp @ 50 bht ? dream on .

[Deepinthailand]

Blair a war criminal ? Corbyn a believer in Democracy ,??

Whatever next . gbp @ 50 bht ? dream on .

No

No

And soon

[Ricardo]

Owen Smith formally launched his campaign on Sunday ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36820419

"Explaining his reason for standing, Mr Smith said it was to ensure that the party "cannot split" - as he pitched himself as the candidate that could "unite" Labour.

"There is a clear and present danger that some in our party are getting fatalistic about the prospect of that split." he said.

[Ricardo]

Angela Eagle, having forced a vote on the leadership by standing herself, has now dropped-out in favour of Owen Smith so that the anti-Corbyn voters will just have one person to concentrate their support on.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36838808

[vogie]

Owen Smith interviewed by Andrew Marr, says top-rate of Income-Tax should be increased.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36818050

He also said he would hold another EU referendum. Another Labour no hoper.

[Ricardo]

Jeremy Corbyn starts campaigning for the leadership-election ..

"Jeremy Corbyn is to promise to tackle the "five ills of 21st Century Britain" as he launches his official campaign to remain as Labour leader.

Mr Corbyn, who is facing a challenge from Owen Smith, will vow to confront inequality, neglect, prejudice, insecurity and discrimination."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36852222

[Ricardo]

... and now threatens all Labour MPs with facing reselection ...

" Jeremy Corbyn has promised a "full and open selection process" to choose every would-be Labour MP if new constituency boundaries are in place before 2020. Launching his campaign to remain Labour leader, he said current MPs would be able to 'put their name forward' "

... so I guess it's not surprising that ...

" Most Labour MPs want Mr Corbyn to stand aside "

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36852222

Angela Eagle had a brick through her window, and now they might well loose their jobs, if they don't do as they're told, and rally round him !

This is great entertainment, seen from afar.

[elliss]

Blair a war criminal ? Corbyn a believer in Democracy ,??

Whatever next . gbp @ 50 bht ? dream on .

No

No

And soon

You , still on Lao Cow .

[Ricardo]

And further threats to Angela Eagle, despite her having withdrawn from the ballot ...

Isn't it time that Corbyn spoke out against this thuggery, against his MPs ?

Or risk giving the impression, no doubt false, that he approves of it ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-36859397

"Labour MP Angela Eagle has cancelled constituency surgeries after discussions with police in the wake of a death threat and attack on her office.

A spokesman for the MP said she will meet constituents by appointment."

and ... "Ms Eagle's decision comes the day after the suspension of Wallasey Constituency Labour Party over allegations of bullying and organised demonstrations in the area."

IMO the point needs to be made, throughout the party, that this is not only morally-wrong, but also does nothing to enhance the electability of the Labour Party, whoever is leading it ?

[Boon Mee]

The loathsome Corbyn should be run out of town on a rail.

Here's the lovely Theresa May giving him hell:

The Spectator‘s judgment is that May “wiped the floor” with Corbyn.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/theresa-may/?_ga=1.178600228.1612978249.1369991117

Edited July 22, 2016 by Boon Mee

[vogie]

The loathsome Corbyn should be run out of town on a rail.

Here's the lovely Theresa May giving him hell:

The Spectators judgment is that May wiped the floor with Corbyn.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/theresa-may/?_ga=1.178600228.1612978249.1369991117

She's good!

[GuestHouse]

If Corbyn is as ineffectual and un-electable as the rightwing press constantly tell us, why then are they so obsessed with getting this message across?

Is it perhaps that the Labour Party has, in the past week alone, signed up more new members than there there members of the membership Conservative party?

We'll find out what that is all about when the Labour Party leadership vote comes in.

[Rc2702]

The poor Brits. What a bunch of hopeless people.

It was only a 'referendum', the UK isn't ruled by referendum; the UK is a country ruled by law made in Parliament. BREXIT isn't law, hasn't been voted on by Parliament, nor will it be. Parliament has enough people that are from Scotland and London proper that there will never be a BREXIT bill passed in our lifetime. The end of UK being in the EU is greatly exaggerated.

100% correct will never happen but it definitely serves a purpose better for all eu in the long run. Great Britain just became Great again not just for brits but for all Europeans.

[Ricardo]

"Jeremy Corbyn says Labour's huge membership has created a "social movement" that will help the party return to government in 2020.

The leader told activists in Salford that members "want to see a different world and do things very differently".

He also condemned abuse among members, saying "it has no place in our party"."

Meanwhile 40+ female-MPs have written to him, saying that he's not done enough, about threats to members ...

And "Unite trade union leader Len McCluskey suggested in an interview with the Guardian that the security services could be behind the abuse and intimidation of MPs on social media."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36872411

[Denim]

Corbyn should definitely stay. He's the best leader the Tories have ever had.

[Ricardo]

Corbyn should definitely stay. He's the best leader the Tories have ever had.

But at what cost to the principle, of having a potentially-electable Opposition-party, which performs the essential function of helping keep the government more-honest and accountable ?

Nobody can deny that he seems to have generated a recent groundswell of grass-roots support, I'm not sure whether that will translate into increased-support from the voters at the ballot-box in an election, but time will tell (if he remains). Labour, having apparently lost Scotland, already has to come-from-behind !

However I see a contrast between the reactions of the two main political-parties, which I believe were both officially in favour of Remaining, to the result of the Brexit vote. One has swiftly replaced its leader (the PM), and most of the Cabinet, and appear to be making strides to carry out the Brexit-actions following the referendum.

While the other party's leader is refusing to step-down, despite having judged the mood of the referendum-voters wrongly, and is facing an acrimonious leadership-challenge as-a-result. He believes he will win, the majority of his MPs clearly don't agree, and the in-fighting is getting nasty. Not good for Labour.

It says little for the commitment and support for Remaining, which Jeremy Corbyn previously professed to have, and would he be any more committed to any other party-policy ? How can one tell ?

If those newly-joined idealists & left-wingers keep him as leader, but then can't get people who voted Leave to later vote Labour, then it may prove a pyrrhic-victory. There is no point having a united socialist party, but who can't then get into government, is there ?

I'm reminded of the miners' strike. Yes, they were right that the industry was bound to be slashed by Maggie & McGregor, but the union-leaders led their members through heart-breaking suffering, and ultimately failed to alter the eventual outcome.

Politicians are surely supposed to negotiate the best deal that can be achieved, not go down as noble political-heroes who lost. IMO Jeremy ought to have accepted the presidential-position he was offered, held true to the policy-lurch to-the-left which seems to be taking place, and accepted the loss of personal glory which that might entail. It's not as if his challengers are not long-standing Labour Party figures.

No one person is ever greater than their party.

[Ricardo]

Meanwhile 40+ female-MPs have written to him, saying that he's not done enough, about threats to members ...

More from the Beeb, about this particular part of the developing-story ...

"The MPs' letter said: "Rape threats, death threats, smashed cars and bricks through windows are disgusting and totally unacceptable in any situation.

"This is acknowledged by all factions yet the simple words of condemnation offered in response are inadequate. We expect swift and tangible action against those who commit such acts."

and it continues: "We have also been alarmed to learn that our shadow chancellor and other members of the shadow cabinet have addressed rallies and events in which demonstrations outside MPs' offices and bullying at CLP meetings have been either actively encouraged or quietly condoned."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36864903

[Ricardo]

The court-ruling, on the legality of whether JC is entitled to a place on the ballot-paper, is due today ..

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36909862

[Ricardo]

The court has ruled that Labours' NEC does have right to put JC on the ballot-paper, and rejected the ex-donor's challenge.

"Mr Foster said he would not be challenging the decision: "We wanted the courts to adjudicate... they have." "

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36909862

So now ... on to the actual election, with the result expected to be known on September 24th.

[Ricardo]

First hustings for the contest  ...

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36977935

[Ricardo]

Frank Field MP, former minister for welfare reform, says " I'm voting for Smith but Corbyn will win,"

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36973814

[emilymat]

It's all so depressing to see the Labour Party in this state.      I foresee the split taking place and the Tories staying in power for yonks.

[Ricardo]

3 minutes ago, emilymat said:

It's all so depressing to see the Labour Party in this state.      I foresee the split taking place and the Tories staying in power for yonks.

 

I quite agree, one doesn't need to be a Labour Party member/voter, to see that it's unhealthy for UK-democracy for the main opposition-party to be in such disarray.

 

If Jeremy Corbyn's wave of new grass-roots supporters do win the vote for him, and given the strength-of-feeling against him from current MPs, also the clear threat to de-select them all before the next election, it would be surprising if there weren't at least some loyal Labour-MPs who were considering  a breakaway, or crossing-the-floor to join another party.

 

While the name 'New Labour' is clearly tainted, some other similar new name might be used, and a second left-wing party would IMO have the potential to split the vote, and let the Conservatives stay in power almost-regardless of their record in government. Which isn't good, they're still a long way from balancing-the-books, despite several years of pain.

 

Some political movements do aim only to influence the winners' policies, look at the Greens and Maggie Thatcher for an example where that happened, but the main parties must stand a real chance of actually getting elected, and I don't (currently) see JC's Labour-movement & Momentum being able to pull that off.  Of course I might be wrong about that.

 

Time will tell.

[dageurreotype]

For all of you farang screaming democracy here in junta led Thailand, may I remind you, Corbyn, like him or not, was voted in by a landslide. 

 

I am truly ashamed to be British seeing the UK following the corrupt US msm able to manipulate the people to adhere to their corporate backed agenda. And all of you GIVING the VOTE on whether a candidate stays or goes to these monsters is despicable. And you thought you were better than the 'dumb American'. For shame.

[kkerry]

He may have been voted in by a landslide but Labour at the moment are like a corporation with a chairman totally at odds with the majority of his board, it's unworkable.

 

His supporters can stick to their principals if they wish, but they can look forward to years in the parliamentary wilderness as few undecided voters will vote for a party in such disarray.

Corbyn might be a good man but a Labour Party led by him is going nowhere fast.

[emilymat]

17 minutes ago, dageurreotype said:

For all of you farang screaming democracy here in junta led Thailand, may I remind you, Corbyn, like him or not, was voted in by a landslide.

 

I am truly ashamed to be British seeing the UK following the corrupt US msm able to manipulate the people to adhere to their corporate backed agenda. And all of you GIVING the VOTE on whether a candidate stays or goes to these monsters is despicable. And you thought you were better than the 'dumb American'. For shame.

It's difficult to respond to that attack, but I'll try.

 

I've been a Labour Party member  for around 45 years. I well remember the 'entryism' that took place in the 80's by Militant Tendancy and how it almost destroyed Labour then. Whatever people's view now, Neil Kinnock took them head on and laid the groundwork for the election of Tony Blair and three election victories (again, whatever your current view on TB might be).

 

Large numbers of your 'landslide' voters for JC are more drawn to demo politics than actual power.It's natural in a way, particularly for the young, to prefer street parades and placard waving to actually putting a party into power. If you look closely at the placards that are waved, many of them have Socilaist Worker motifs on them.

 

Something else, how can you vote for a party leader, when you didn't have to join the party. All you had to do was pay 3 quid and say you supported  the aims of the party. How many tories took this route to ensure JC was elected?. Quite a few I imagine.

 

You will maybe have noticed that in the recent Tory Party election for leader, which was aborted, the Tories only  allowed fully paid up members - with a cut off date prior to the beginning of the election race, - to be able to vote.

 

I'm afraid that, if every single Labour Party member had voted for JC - including myself, he will never be Prime Minister and will remain a leader of no more than a squabbling political pressure group. Not because he's a bad man without principles, but because at a general election people vote for party and prime minister and that  is a fact. With the best image makers possible JC would never be seen as a PM by huge portions of the electorate.

 

Recently Pariament voted (cross party) to renew Trident, yet JC hasmade it plain he wouln't contemplate using it even if the UK was on the  verge of destruction.

 

Sure,200,000 Labour party (and suspect) voters put him in his position, but he would need the vote of over 14 million to put him in Downing Street.

 

This is the real world I'm afraid, however noble his band of followers feel about his single issue messages  on austerity etc.

 

I'm not sure what your references to the USA are about. All I know is that UK elections mayhave flaws with the first past the post etc, but don't forget,we had a referendum someyears ago to change to another PR system and that was rejected.