Egypt urges “two state solution” to Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[webfact]

Egypt urges “two state solution” to Israeli-Palestinian conflict



CAIRO: -- Egypt’s foreign minister has urged Israel to consider a two state solution to the Israeli -Palestinian conflict. On his first visit to Jerusalem Sameh Shoukry offered Cairo’s help in reviving peace talks.

In a press conference he called for confidence-building measures that could lead to renewed peace negotiations that collapsed in 2014.

Sameh Shoukry’s visit for talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was the first made by an Egyptian foreign minister in nine years.

In May Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi urged both sides to seize the opportunity to make a historic peace, offering Israel the prospect of warmer ties if this were achieved.

Sisi offered the 2002 Arab peace initiative as a potential way ahead. The initiative offered full recognition of Israel but only if it gave up all land seized in the 1967 Middle East war and agreed to a “just solution” for Palestinian refugees.

Netanyahu has said he would be willing to discuss the Arab peace plan but that changes would have to be made.

Shoukry’s visit comes as France leads a renewed push to put peace efforts back on the agenda with an international peace conference held on June 3. The French initiative seeks to bring the two sides back to the table by year-end and was welcomed by the Palestinians.

But Israeli officials have said only direct talks can end the decades-old conflict.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-07-11

[Jingthing]

Hope springs eternal.

But I wonder if Israelis could ever consider Egypt as an unbiased mediator in the conflict any more than Palestinians could ever consider the USA unbiased.

It does seem positive for Israel that Israel is improving relations with a number of neighbors in the region but some of those neighbors such as Saudi Arabia are more like realpolitik situations rather than friends you would actually choose.

These improved relations might, just might, make it easier for Israel and the Palestinian nationalism movement to come to a peaceful compromised solution.

Of course, that doesn't mean it will actually happen or is likely.

Now expect a parade of posts about how the lack of an agreement is all Israel's fault. Unlike an actual solution, that is guaranteed.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

So, what else would he say?

Another slow news day obviously.

[Laughing Gravy]

Whilst what he says sounds promising, I would like to see how big the two states are. The way the Israel government have eradicated the Palestine people over the last 50 plus years, then I expect it will be 95% to 5% to the Israelis. In land that is.

[Jingthing]

As these threads are usually dominated by extremist Israel demonization messages, here is another way to look at the Palestinian nationalist movement, for discussion purposes, without actually endorsing the article:

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/207019/the-end-of-palestinian-nationalism

The End of Palestinian Nationalism

When a movement devolves into a death cult, it’s time to rethink our assumptions

...

By the same token, it is also time to see the Palestinian national movement as a unified whole, rather than picking and choosing among its parts in order to construct a Western-friendly creature that can then be positioned as a likely partner for negotiations that—for reasons that should now seem obvious to every thinking person—go absolutely nowhere, because they are premised on a fantasy of a thing that doesn’t actually exist. Is there actually any meaningful difference in the aspirations of the leaders of Hamas and the leaders of Fatah, both of whom compete to incite and lionize the unending stream of zombie-like killers who murder Jews wherever they can find them, whether in settlements or on the beaches of Haifa and Tel Aviv?

Edited July 11, 2016 by Scott
Edited for Fair Use

[Jingthing]

Whilst what he says sounds promising, I would like to see how big the two states are. The way the Israel government have eradicated the Palestine people over the last 50 plus years, then I expect it will be 95% to 5% to the Israelis. In land that is.

The Israelis have done nothing of the kind. They have not eradicated the Palestinian people. That would be genocide. There has been no genocide.

Why does the Israel demonization agenda insist on broadcasting such blatantly false and inflammatory narratives? The population of people that identify as Palestinian Arabs has IN FACT greatly INCREASED in the last 50 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories

There is also of course a very great increase in Arab Israeli citizens living in the generally recognized borders of Israel.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Not here to bash Israel but here to post info about the U.N. which largely exists to bash Israel (does anyone that isn't mentally ill actually believe the Israeli government is worse than the Syrian regime?) and post distorted maps that fail to explain that the Arab/Muslim world ATTACKED Israel immediately after they came into existence, so the initial U.N. plan was untenable for security. Also Gaza was returned and Gaza is where the Palestinians are the MOST extremist.

Israel wants to exterminate the Palestinians? That is hate speech garbage. Israel COULD do that of course, but has never done anything of the kind and there's no reason to think they ever would. This kind of crap is what the Israel demonization does to try to paint Israelis the same as Nazis, and it is a big hateful lie.

Not to mention Palestinians are taught to hate not only Israelis, but JEWS, from a very early age, by their own governments. West Bank AND Gaza.

To wit:

http://palwatch.org/SITE/MODULES/videos/pal/videos.aspx?fld_id=latest&doc_id=18362

Edited July 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

It's fine if you want to focus on Christians, but I'm not sure how that relates to overall topic of the general difficulties in ever coming to peaceful acceptable to both parties two state solution between the state of Israel and the Palestinian nationalist movement.

I doubt you'll find people here that would defend persecution of Christians in the west bank, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, etc. so I'm not really getting the point of that focus here except to show some obnoxious extremist Jewish kids that certainly do not represent a significant percentage of Israelis.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A very on topic analysis of why BOTH the Israelis and Palestinians may find dealing with Egypt more useful than dealing with France:

“Israel is in a trap,” Levanon said. “It can’t say to the Egyptians what it said to the French – that their initiative is not worth anything. It can’t say this to Sisi because the relationship is so good and important. Israel will weigh what it says to Egypt dozens of times before saying it, and Abbas knows that.”

As to why, therefore, Israel wants Egyptian involvement, Levanon explained that this was because “Egypt understands us much more than the French,” and certainly more than some of the others trying to play a role in the diplomatic process, such as Turkey or Qatar.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Analysis-Egyptian-diplomacy-pushes-France-aside-460040

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed along with replies.

[sanukjim]

Whilst what he says sounds promising, I would like to see how big the two states are. The way the Israel government have eradicated the Palestine people over the last 50 plus years, then I expect it will be 95% to 5% to the Israelis. In land that is.

How about Egypt offering an area for the Palestinian people there in Egypt and Israel pay each family to move to their new home.?.Then it would the Egyptians that will have to deal with them.

[dick dasterdly]

Whilst what he says sounds promising, I would like to see how big the two states are. The way the Israel government have eradicated the Palestine people over the last 50 plus years, then I expect it will be 95% to 5% to the Israelis. In land that is.

How about Egypt offering an area for the Palestinian people there in Egypt and Israel pay each family to move to their new home.?.Then it would the Egyptians that will have to deal with them.

I'm pretty sure the Palestinians want to stay in their own 'home country'.

Personally, I suspect that this conflict will last as long as the Irish/Brit. conflict .

[Jingthing]

This isn't about Egypt offering any of their land to anybody.

As far as the conflict continuing, even in the unlikely event of a two state solution agreement with "final" borders, the conflict would of course continue as trust between the sides would take at least a generation or two to be healed.

The interesting thing about Egypt's involvement with a right wing Israeli leader is that it very well may be that a right wing hawkish Israeli does indeed present an opportunity that an Israeli "liberal" leader may not. Think of the Nixon opens up China phenom. A liberal American president could not have done that.

It seems counter intuitive but you always have to consider INTERNAL political pressures along with foreign relations.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[IAMHERE]

Whilst what he says sounds promising, I would like to see how big the two states are. The way the Israel government have eradicated the Palestine people over the last 50 plus years, then I expect it will be 95% to 5% to the Israelis. In land that is.

what is your definition of eradicate? There are twice as many palestines today as 50 years ago.

[Greenhill]

Isn't bias a 'wonderful' thing?? This meeting took place in Jerusalem, that means it was at the invitation of the Israeli's. And if anyone had actually seen the press briefing, they would have heard that Netanyahu ALSO advocated a 'two-state solution'!

The meeting seemed to be more than cordial, quite friendly, I would say and a REAL peace has been in existence between Egypt & Israel since 1994. It was negotiated between the 2 parties and co-operation clearly exists between them, in the fight against terrorism in the Sinai & Gaza.

A similar peace treaty was struck between Israel & Jordan, which surely proves that Israel is only too happy to make peace with countries/peoples who want to make peace, as well. The Palestinians in Gaza, or at least, their leaders, Hamas, who are a well-recognised terrorist organisation have NO intention of making peace and still encourage, by all means, their people to kill Israeli's (or Jews), at every opportunity.

If Israel had a 'peace-partner' in Gaza, peace could be made there, as well!!

[Steely Dan]

This comes on the back of Netanyahu's recent trip to Africa and rapidly improving relations with the GCC and Saudi Arabia. I suspect there is an element of Israel preferring to deal with her Arab neighbors than the biased EU or clueless Obama administration. If the west keeps out of this I think peace is achievable within a decade.

Edit; it is indeed very revealing that our usual Israel demonizers and supposed 'Palestinian rights' supporters are in marked absence when the topic is talks to resolve the conflict. If I didn't know better I'd suspect the very thought makes their blood run cold.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Steely Dan

[Kiwiken]

The Israelis will need to leave settlements on the West Bank. Jerusalem is a thorn in any peace process. But sort out the West Bank then you have a shot at the Jerusalem question. Gaza is a little harder but the secret is to take the route of compromise and maybe the Hamas radicals will find their base ebbing away. Takes time and will to succeed

[mania]

As these threads are usually dominated by extremist Israel demonization messages

At the time of my posting there were 17 posts of which 7 were yours so I would say your "dominated by" claim is false

Edited July 12, 2016 by mania

[Jingthing]

This comes on the back of Netanyahu's recent trip to Africa and rapidly improving relations with the GCC and Saudi Arabia. I suspect there is an element of Israel preferring to deal with her Arab neighbors than the biased EU or clueless Obama administration. If the west keeps out of this I think peace is achievable within a decade.

Edit; it is indeed very revealing that our usual Israel demonizers and supposed 'Palestinian rights' supporters are in marked absence when the topic is talks to resolve the conflict. If I didn't know better I'd suspect the very thought makes their blood run cold.

We had some before but you're right that potentially positive steps toward peace are not part of the Israel demonization agenda. Unless of course it's disingenuous demands that Israel give up a lot for nothing. That agenda is clearly about cheer leading for the end of Israel and spreading poisonous lies about fictional genocide of Palestinian Arabs. That said the odds are never great of any significant peace progress soon. But hope and efforts are always welcome to people of good will that realize both sides will need to compromise. Edited July 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[JingerBen]

This comes on the back of Netanyahu's recent trip to Africa and rapidly improving relations with the GCC and Saudi Arabia. I suspect there is an element of Israel preferring to deal with her Arab neighbors than the biased EU or clueless Obama administration. If the west keeps out of this I think peace is achievable within a decade.

Edit; it is indeed very revealing that our usual Israel demonizers and supposed 'Palestinian rights' supporters are in marked absence when the topic is talks to resolve the conflict. If I didn't know better I'd suspect the very thought makes their blood run cold.

We had some before but you're right that potentially positive steps toward peace are not part of the Israel demonization agenda. Unless of course it's disingenuous demands that Israel give up a lot for nothing. That agenda is clearly about cheer leading for the end of Israel and spreading poisonous lies about fictional genocide of Palestinian Arabs. That said the odds are never great of any significant peace progress soon. But hope and efforts are always welcome to people of good will that realize both sides will need to compromise.

Expecting Israel to live within its internationally recognized 1967 borders is not ​"...cheerleading for the end of Israel..

​Quite the opposite, it is the only way to avoid a one-state solution where Israelis are a despised minority living under the constant threat of violent reprisals.

[notmyself]

Neither side are interested in peace.

[Jingthing]

Meanwhile, back in the bubble of the U.S. republican party ...

Rejecting decades-old policy, the Republican Party approved Tuesday a platform that does not include a call for a two-state solution to the Israeli – Palestinian conflict.
...

The National Jewish Democratic Council spoke out against the new platform language, stating that “When it comes to Republican rhetoric on Israel and the two state solution, they can’t even find themselves to be in line with the rhetoric of the Prime Minister of Israel.”

Read more: http://forward.com/news/344738/in-major-shift-gop-rejects-two-state-solution-says-israel-not-occupier/#ixzz4EDibGlPa

[Ulysses G.]

Let Israel decide for itself what it's strategy should be for dealing with the Recalcitrant Palestinians. That is what the Republican party is saying and I agree with them. IMO, a two-state solution is best, but the Palestinians don't seem very interested. All they really want is to wipe Israel off the map.

[Jingthing]

Let Israel decide for itself what it's strategy should be for dealing with the Recalcitrant Palestinians. That is what the Republican party is saying and I agree with them. IMO, a two-state solution is best, but the Palestinians don't seem very interested. All they really want is to wipe Israel off the map.

Well, for now at least, as far as mediation efforts are concerned, the USA is not very relevant. It's getting too off topic, but I think that you fail to appreciate that the trend for USA Israel policy to become a more PARTISAN issue has some major downsides.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[Kiwiken]

Israel has the right to exist. And the Palestinians the right to their Homeland. It is easy to focus on the extremes of both sides. The 1967 borders are a good starting point. As I have said Jerusalem another issue. Both sides have their extremists groups and both sides are not wholly united. time to find Doves amongst the Hawks

[thaibeachlovers]

Whilst what he says sounds promising, I would like to see how big the two states are. The way the Israel government have eradicated the Palestine people over the last 50 plus years, then I expect it will be 95% to 5% to the Israelis. In land that is.

The Israelis have done nothing of the kind. They have not eradicated the Palestinian people. That would be genocide. There has been no genocide.

Why does the Israel demonization agenda insist on broadcasting such blatantly false and inflammatory narratives? The population of people that identify as Palestinian Arabs has IN FACT greatly INCREASED in the last 50 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories

There is also of course a very great increase in Arab Israeli citizens living in the generally recognized borders of Israel.

Quite right. As I have said before, if Israel doesn't make friends with the Palestinians NOW, before it is too late, they will find themselves outnumbered in their own state, and what they gonna' do then? Ethnic cleansing?

By maintaining the failed and illegal policies of collective punishment, oppression and land theft, Israel is doomed as a Jewish state, whether it is in 20 or 200 years.

[Jingthing]

Demographic stats can be twisted for propaganda purposes. Cutting multiple ways. I still see some kind of "two state" solution as the only realistic option for peace in that region.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Jews-a-minority-between-the-river-and-the-sea-460205

Coming from a different angle, Palestinian-American businessman and political commentator Sam Bahour, who has written that he does not presently support a one-state solution, or using it as a threat in order to gain leverage over Israel, told the Post that both sides need to see beyond demographics entirely.

"I don't calculate the future of the region in terms of demographics, because that would lead to a never ending game of ethnic cleansing. Regardless of the number of Jews, or others, equality and rights must drive policies on both sides of the Green Line if we are serious about a future for our children worth living for," he said.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Seeing how Israel handles the NGO who fight against the settlements with a law supported by BIBI and submitted bar a far right dumbnut.
I guess the two states solution will never happen and it will be the fall of Israel because in 2 generations they will be outnumbered by Palestinian immigrants....

[notmyself]

This 'right to exist' pseudo intellectual claptrap again. What objectively is the reason behind 'right to exist?'

The two state solution can only work if both sides desire it. Do they?

If it comes down to ethnic cleansing AKA genocide then Israel will win due to having a long history of such things. Professionals if you will.

The Canaanites play an important role in the story of the Israelites' conquest of their "Promised Land," especially in the Book of Joshua, but the ancient Jewish scriptures contain almost no substantive information about them. The Canaanites are the villains of the story because they are living on land promised to the Israelites by Yahweh.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblepeopleoldtestament/a/Canaanites-Old-Testament-History.htm

The Book of Joshua describes little more than a genocidal campaign against the unsuspecting inhabitants of Canaan. The Canaanites never attacked the Israelites, never enslaved the Israelites, and aren't described as ever having done anything to warrant mistreatment of any sort. Their only crime was living in the wrong place at the wrong time land promised to the Israelites by God at the time when God decided to make good on that promise.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblestudyoldtestament1/a/Joshua-Genocide-yahweh.htm

Similar instructions appear in subsequent texts and they are clear that not only are the Israelites to make total war on the inhabitants, but they are also prohibited from entering into any sort of peace treaty with any group. There is to be no mercy for anyone, only death.

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblestudyoldtestament1/a/Joshua-Genocide-yahweh.htm

The Israelites got some practice in this by making war against the Midianites:

And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. ...And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. ...

http://atheism.about.com/od/biblestudyoldtestament1/a/Joshua-Genocide-yahweh.htm

Edited July 13, 2016 by notmyself