Brit dies in Bangkok hospital after being stranded for 2 month while family struggled to pay bill

[bkkcanuck8]

<deleted>, the British embassy in BKK are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Brigante7

Name me one country's embassy that is there to extend the nanny state. Traveling, especially international, is a luxury. The only thing an embassy will do is provide you with "emergency" funds with a guarantor that someone back in your country will cover it.... and even then it is rare. The person's partner was in Thailand so that would have been a non issue, they would have had to cover the initial period (that time when it was an emergency).

Edited July 20, 2016 by metisdead

[bkkcanuck8]

Got a link?

Happy to donate.

PM it to me if not allowed to put on forum.

The news story has a link at the end of it.

The biggest donations are from friends and family and only get up to a few hundred quid....

Edited July 20, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[Bangkokazy]

The world is rotten,

[Bluespunk]

Got a link?

Happy to donate.

PM it to me if not allowed to put on forum.

The news story has a link at the end of it.

The biggest donations are from friends and family and only get up to a few hundred quid....

Maybe that's all they can afford.

[gdgbb]

Its also dangerous to have insurance in thailand.If you have a headache.They will operate on your brain,If they think it will make money.YOU THINK IM JOKING ,IM NOT ,IVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.many many times The guy who was told that he had cancer of the nose.What a mess they made to him,He came home to try to get his nose repaired ,Doctor told him that he never had cancer.There are thousands of these true stories.a freind of mine had a dizzy spell a couple of weeks ago.They charged him over 100 pounds.Told him that he will then have to stay in overnight but it will cost him.1000 pounds more.He went back to his hotel instead.He was fine ,no problems.Dont tell them you have insurance.unless its very serious.BE WARNED

BE WARNED, a nonsense post.

Farcical comments, unless you can back up any of it, of course? I'm sure you will be able to as you, personally, have "many, many" instances that you have seen on which to draw.

[bkkcanuck8]

Got a link?

Happy to donate.

PM it to me if not allowed to put on forum.

The news story has a link at the end of it.

The biggest donations are from friends and family and only get up to a few hundred quid....

Maybe that's all they can afford.

Maybe, but more than likely it was a calculated donation - how do I give some without looking too cheap.

Not that I necessarily think that paying to get a dead body back is worth it... what are they going to do ship it back (probably 7,000 to 10,000 quid).... incinerate and can the body... then ship it back.... it is like buying a car then putting it in a compressor to squish it.... I would probably just tell them to strip the bones and use the full set for teaching.... full sets of real bones are not cheap. I am just not that sentimental when it comes to dead bodies (mine or others).

[asean]

and when Thai immigration even hints at the fact that they might demand compulsory travel insurance on all tourist visas TV will start bitchin'

[bkkcanuck8]

Its also dangerous to have insurance in thailand.If you have a headache.They will operate on your brain,If they think it will make money.YOU THINK IM JOKING ,IM NOT ,IVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.many many times The guy who was told that he had cancer of the nose.What a mess they made to him,He came home to try to get his nose repaired ,Doctor told him that he never had cancer.There are thousands of these true stories.a freind of mine had a dizzy spell a couple of weeks ago.They charged him over 100 pounds.Told him that he will then have to stay in overnight but it will cost him.1000 pounds more.He went back to his hotel instead.He was fine ,no problems.Dont tell them you have insurance.unless its very serious.BE WARNED

BE WARNED, a nonsense post.

Farcical comments, unless you can back up any of it, of course? I'm sure you will be able to as you, personally, have "many, many" instances that you have seen on which to draw.

Over the top and a little on the crazy side but not completely wrong. There are cases of misdiagnosis even at good hospitals - which means if it comes to surgery you should get a second opinion from an independent source. The top private hospital doctors tend to prefer surgical option quicker than often necessary and not necessarily in the best interest of the patient. I recently was told by a western doctor working in the region that if he was 100% sure of his diagnosis and prescribed remedy -- he would send them to a specific top hospital in Bangkok.... but if he was only 90% sure... he would refer them to Singapore because he was more comfortable with there medical ethos.

[aussienam]

As an expat living in Thailand I have travel insurance but I do have pre-existing medical conditions. Luckily for me they are currently well treated with medication. Saying that to be covered for all of my existing conditions my travel insurance premiums would be extremely expensive in the many thousands of dollars per year. I declared all when applying and got the quote and fwll backwards.

Basically I could not afford to travel and experience life outside my home country if I wanted cover for everything. So it is a compromise and I agreed with thw insurer to be excluded from cover for these things.

I am sure this was the case for this lady albeit her ailments seemed to be more serious. Maybe she decided to run the gauntlet so to speak and hope for the best to eke out a bit more life experience before her time was up or became locked into staying on her country when she became too ill.

Thailand does not have the same developed wealthy economy of the UK. Health care is not free. Thai people also suffer and often cannot afford medical treatment and inevitably die when in the UK and other developed nations you would have been treated and had better survival chances.

If the Thai hospital just paid for every farang that wasn't covered and cashless that means fees for everyone else woild be jacked up and less able to afford.

It was the responsibility of the lady, her family, and probably the UK government to sort out some type of emergency funds - maybe a loan of some sort.

But it is a grim reminder that if you are truly too sick to travel then either pay the premium if the insurer agrees or else sorry but you should not be travelling.

No offense to the deceased lady or her family.

[evadgib]

dcnx, on 20 Jul 2016 - 06:13, said:

Pattaya28, on 20 Jul 2016 - 04:57, said:

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

“Kathryn had been ill for a long time and suffers from arthritis,”

You don't die from arthritis, if she had a pre existing serious conditions the sister would have said so,

where were the UK embassy in this story and they did to help the situation?

I'm sure if this lady was well connected she would have alive today, sadly, she was a no body

just enough not to really try harder or donate money for the repatriating back to the UK,

This woman could have been saved easily, .... Shame on the UK people and government......

What would you have them do?

What would yours do?

[hawker9000]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

Oh. You've personally contributed how much then?

Pfffft. People shouting "decency". What a bad joke. What hypocrites.

[evadgib]

dcnx, on 20 Jul 2016 - 06:13, said:

Pattaya28, on 20 Jul 2016 - 04:57, said:

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

Kathryn had been ill for a long time and suffers from arthritis,

You don't die from arthritis, if she had a pre existing serious conditions the sister would have said so,

where were the UK embassy in this story and they did to help the situation?

I'm sure if this lady was well connected she would have alive today, sadly, she was a no body

just enough not to really try harder or donate money for the repatriating back to the UK,

This woman could have been saved easily, .... Shame on the UK people and government......

<deleted>, the British embassy in BKK are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Brigante7

A common misconception among SUN readers who for whatever reason believe rabbit$ can be plucked from thin air...

Edited July 20, 2016 by evadgib

[sweatalot]

I wonder if the hospital will hang onto the body until the bill is paid? At least bringing the ashes home will be cheaper than an air ambulance.

That would be funny if they did it with me... I spent the last few months giving it a lot of thought....

As you get older you are confronted with the theory that you are not immortal — no matter how often you find yourself answering when people say “Oh! God!”…..

I don’t know how typical I am but the first and primary thought when searching WebMD and finding 20 or 25 things “you could die from”…. was… if I do die I don’t want to spend any money on it and I don’t want anyone else to spend money on it. Then you have to plan for your eventual demise….. First idea was based on a “thought experiment" called “Schrödinger's Cat” where it proposed that a cat could be alive and dead at the same time. If I disappeared and no one observed whether I was dead or alive then it was “theoretically possible” to be both alive and dead - in a state of limbo forever.…. The problem that I have with “Schrödinger's Cat” “thought experiment" is that it relies on a cat being left in a closed box. Now you might not be able to observe the cat, but based on prior experience…. when no one feeds the cat…. it dies….. Also although you won’t be opening up the box to observe the cat…. after a while you might be able to “sense” it in other ways…. like the sense of smell…. which you can only avoid by shrink wrapping the cat in plastic before putting it in the box…. which… also based on prior experience…. you will end up with a dead cat…. though probably different causes. So Schrödinger's "Me" is probably not the best option.

Then I decided to prefix everything with… if I don’t die I will… you know someone asks you out for a beer later and you say something like “sure I would love a beer … if I don’t die I will be there around 9pm”….. to be honest it I figured it was one way I could prepare people…. upon hearing I had died -- they would be saying things like “he was so young” (I think some people say it even if you are 150 years old)….. and another person would ask…. “are you shocked or surprised that he died so young” and the person would honestly be able to answer… “By god no!, he talked about dying all the time”….

Then I thought I really hope no one feels the need to drag me all of the world after I am dead… because that is bloody expensive…. not to mention I am a little on the heavy side and I know I will get some lazy person that will not want to exert to much effort and will probably drag me by my feet.

Then I thought even if it might be illegal, could I arrange myself to be feed to the fishes (sorry for those that are pescetarian for that thought )…. It might actually be cheaper than incinerated then canned…. not to mention I would likely end up in cold storage handed down from generation to generation until your name is forgotten and the container degrades and you are a permanent resident of a cold damp cellar (no that would NEVER happen -- not in our family... oh yes... except for the one case ).

Finally when watching a TV show it suddenly dawned on me that the perfect solution…. someone could dump my body in a “aquarium” with lots of flesh eating beetles… which will clean my bones and feed the masses of beetles. Then the person that is stuck with me can sell by bones online and maybe make a profit since a full set of bones is in demand and can be quite pricey. I would likely become useful to teach aspiring medical students …..

But alas, I am not apparently going to die yet….. but at least I have done the planning....

(as you can see I have little use for my body after I die)

[drakoanders]

I get the distinct feeling that you guys really don't like each other. Life in Thailand must be bloody boring if all you have to do all day every day is slag each other off you are definitely a very unfriendly bunch that's for sure

[denkiblue555]

Condolences to the family, it must be a difficult time.

But this whole insurance discussion is funny, I mean there is no 'magic insurance' that will manage any situation a person could get themselves into.

I think at least one poster has pointed out that it seems there is no mention in the article of the fact that the patient did not have insurance....... we just don't know.

So, as much as everyone wants to bang on about having insurance, from what I have learnt it's barely worth the paper it is written on:

1. Most travel insurance companies are a rort and their default first action is to 'decline' a claim, any claim that is

2. Most travel insurance companies cover very little when a person has consumed alcohol - I can only assume riding on vehicles which are not fit for the road/ocean etc., would also be similar

3. Insurance companies are there to make $$$$$ not help people in their time of need - don't buy into all that marketing rubbish.

Insurance sounds great in principal, but in reality for the nominal charge they usually involve, I would be very surprised if they would ever cover such a large cost as in the OP. I would always recommend having travel insurance, but I would never be relying on it to get me out of trouble.....it's just an extra sort of tax i guess.

Very interesting post , thanks .. What company would you recommend ? I was with Multitrip.com for past ten years but never claimed any .. I was in hospital once to have X-ray and a sling for my arm . Fractured my elbow by a slip on the wet shinning floor . Only cost me 5,000 bt , the excess of the claim is 5,000 bt so I could not claim anyway . Reading at your post had made me aware of the corrupt companies who only interested in taking our money . Must check very clearly with a small print of the documents of travel insurance .

I'm no expert, but I am sure anyone who has worked in travel insurance (or insurance of any kind really) could give some interesting insight too.

I think I used some basic travel insurance from a 'chain' travel agent when I first came to Thailand, but as I then started working and living in LOS I just had regular health insurance with AIA - which was something crazy like 350Bt a month (subsidised by work I think) and this covered 32 outpatient visits a year up to 1000Bt each time. It seemed to cover well for inpatient work, but I think there was usually a gap for major things in some cases.

It's not that they are that much more corrupt than other businesses, just the point that they wouldn't stay in business if they behaved the way the propose on all their advertising.

I have also been told that most major credit cards seem to offer travel insurance benefits which outweigh those offered by 'standard' off-the-shelf policies anyway - haven't tested any policies recently so would be good to hear feedback from others.

[hawker9000]

In point of fact, your remains would be a wecome donation to medical schools and research facilities where they could actually contribute meaningfully to medical education, research and science (IOW, to humanity). 'Not intended as a "should do", but rather just a worthwhile option some might find worth considering.

[Generalchaos]

There really needs to be an international investigation into foreigners treatment in Thai hospitals.

Basically how much does their ability to pay affect their chances of survival?

The fact that the Thais gave treatment amounting to 36000 GBP should answer your question!

They performed the treatment and are out of pocket - Try getting sick in China! They will let you die in the waiting room if you don't have the cash or a line of credit.

The fact that the treatment to this value was provided up front speaks volumes for the Thai hospital system, they didn't ask for cash up front.

Now they are stuck with the debt, and I doubt very much that the family involved will be paying the bill now that the patient is dead, so Thailand is out of pocket.

[Scouse123]

There really needs to be an international investigation into foreigners treatment in Thai hospitals.

Basically how much does their ability to pay affect their chances of survival?

The fact that the Thais gave treatment amounting to 36000 GBP should answer your question!

They performed the treatment and are out of pocket - Try getting sick in China! They will let you die in the waiting room if you don't have the cash or a line of credit.

The fact that the treatment to this value was provided up front speaks volumes for the Thai hospital system, they didn't ask for cash up front.

Now they are stuck with the debt, and I doubt very much that the family involved will be paying the bill now that the patient is dead, so Thailand is out of pocket.

Nonsense!

Thailand will not be out of pocket at all.

These enterprises are run for ' vast profits ' by companies and corporations outside the Thai welfare system and are nothing to do with the state. I would hardly by crying for these corporations that are making huge profits from medical tourism and actually provide ' cash incentives ' to medics and EMS to take them to their hospitals of choice. Bumrungrad, Thailand's most famous and expensive hospital has many shareholders from corporations in the Middle East etc. It is run for profit, first and foremost.

Add back unnecessary treatments and services given to patients that are neither required nor needed, only to drain insurance companies funds or family coffers, I have heard of many families having to re-mortgage to cover some of the shameless costs charged by these ' hospitals ' I have no sympathy that they lose on this occasion.

I stand by my previous post, if you are a European and in poor health and cannot get the necessary insurance for long haul, then the risk is down to you. You cannot then expect the UK government to step in or rely on crowd funding after the event. They should be holidaying much closer to home where they, at least at present, have peace of mind with EU cover for health emergencies.

[Guitar God]

I have Dutch national insurance and travel insurance, no matter what country I'm in and no matter how long I've been here, if I have a large medical bill I submit it to my insurance, who asks for my travel insurance policy information and I'm assuming travel insurance picks up some but the bottom line is, I never see a bill.

I don't know what the woman collapsed from but I can't see any travel insurance company declining to cover a medical emergency abroad due to preexisting conditions. They generally get people stabilized and fly them back home.

For the small expense of having travel insurance it's false economy to not have it when you travel. All this could have easily been avoided for just a few pounds. I don't see why Thai hospitals should foot the bill for uninsured tourists. I don't think many other countries do.

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

I think you should research a little more into how travel insurance works.

It is ok for the short time tourist on holiday but it does nothing for a traveler.

[simonuk]

Perhaps you should be required to prove you have health insurance before entering thailand??

[ozyjon]

It saddens me to read these obituaries.

[alocacoc]

RIP to the Kathryn.

Now, since we must provide silly informations to get a Visa or buy an extension, it would make absolutely sense to ask as well for a health insurance.

[MiKT]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

What happens when "common human decency" conflicts with "common sense and sheer practicality" ?

No country can (or should) have to pay the medical bills for every visitor who becomes sick on holiday.

They don't do it in Europe, why should a relatively poor country like Thailand have to?

Why?

Common human decency.

I know you can read, I also know that despite many posts to the contrary Most Thai hospitals and Thai Doctors are very good and on average Thai's do in fact have more common human decency than is found in many other countries.

But you have not addressed the practicalities and costs of it.

I don't think any country offers unlimited free medical aid to tourists, so to keep repeating the same common decency mantra is only delusional. Common decency is based on common practice and it is not common practice to give free medical aid to visitors because it is not common decency to the general population to do so.

However, I do think that Thailand (possibly every country) could set-up a government sponsored scheme where all visitors pay a small amount to obtain a reasonable amount of basic medical insurance cover on entering the country.

That would be pretty decent, but unfortunately unless it was very limited it would soon be grossly abused, as are most medical insurance schemes. The country would soon be writhing with thousands of pseudo "whiplash" victims.

[sambum]

Its also dangerous to have insurance in thailand.If you have a headache.They will operate on your brain,If they think it will make money.YOU THINK IM JOKING ,IM NOT ,IVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.many many times The guy who was told that he had cancer of the nose.What a mess they made to him,He came home to try to get his nose repaired ,Doctor told him that he never had cancer.There are thousands of these true stories.a freind of mine had a dizzy spell a couple of weeks ago.They charged him over 100 pounds.Told him that he will then have to stay in overnight but it will cost him.1000 pounds more.He went back to his hotel instead.He was fine ,no problems.Dont tell them you have insurance.unless its very serious.BE WARNED

BE WARNED, a nonsense post.

Farcical comments, unless you can back up any of it, of course? I'm sure you will be able to as you, personally, have "many, many" instances that you have seen on which to draw.

Not 100% farcical I'm afraid! A friend of mine fell over in Esan and injured his hip, and taken to the nearest hospital. He was told that he had cancer of the hip, and needed a hip replacement immediately. On his return to the UK, after having had the operation, his own doctor, and the specialist specialist at the local hospital confirmed that he had NOT had cancer of the hip, that the hip replacement was completely unnecessary, and that it had probably been a ligament problem.

[djayz]

There really needs to be an international investigation into foreigners treatment in Thai hospitals.

Basically how much does their ability to pay affect their chances of survival?

The fact that the Thais gave treatment amounting to 36000 GBP should answer your question!

They performed the treatment and are out of pocket - Try getting sick in China! They will let you die in the waiting room if you don't have the cash or a line of credit.

The fact that the treatment to this value was provided up front speaks volumes for the Thai hospital system, they didn't ask for cash up front.

Now they are stuck with the debt, and I doubt very much that the family involved will be paying the bill now that the patient is dead, so Thailand is out of pocket.

My sentiments exactly.+1

They provided treatment.

[free123]

There really needs to be an international investigation into foreigners treatment in Thai hospitals.

Basically how much does their ability to pay affect their chances of survival?

why? what does Thailand owe a foreigner? did Thailand ask them to come over? what ever happened to taking vacation only if you could afford it?

nowadays people move all over there is no home ? and no holiday we live in a world with no boundarys so the future will be a world citizen one world currency the human right to go and live on the planet wherever one wants so it should be paid by taxes a world tax that covers everybody paid by multinationals so free medical for all world citizens

[evadgib]

Perhaps you should be required to prove you have health insurance before entering thailand??

That might work, but only if bills were based on nature of injury instead of ethnicity of patient?

Edited July 20, 2016 by evadgib

[sambum]

I think that one of the problems here is that the private hospitals have realised over the years that when they are treating patients who are insured, they almost have "carte blanche" to charge as much as they want for their services. I have yet to hear of an Insurance Company taking a hospital to task over the charges for their services.

Usually one of the first questions you are asked at a private hospital is "Do you have insurance?", and I do know from personal experience that the bill for any treatment is increased substantially when an insurance claim is involved.

Unfortunately, private hospitals are now becoming more aware of the fact that private treatment here is/was cheaper than many Western countries, and are now increasing their prices accordingly. I can think of one private hospital that has almost doubled its prices over 10 years or so, and often the patient has to "haggle" with various hospitals to get the better price.

So, yes, once again, another instance of the LOS trying to fleece the tourists of as much cash as they can, and they are in the business of making money, so medical treatment has to be paid for. The only solution for non urgent treatment is to shop around. As an example, I see a local doctor who charges about 300 baht for an appointment, and the cost of medication/treatment on top. I know of another doctor a little way out of town who charges 200 baht, and another doctor in the middle of town who charges 500 baht (10 years ago it was 200 baht!) If you go to the most expensive local hospital, they will charge you 4000 baht for a doctor's consultation before any treatment. The ironic thing is that at least one of the aforementioned doctors also works at a local hospital, where the prices for an appointment are about 5 times what you would pay at his surgery!

[zaZa9]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

I think you should research a little more into how travel insurance works.

It is ok for the short time tourist on holiday but it does nothing for a traveler.

Rubbish.

I was on travel insurance for 3 years while 'travelling' in Thailand and neighbouring countries when I had a stroke.

The full bill of 230k ( at Bunrumgrad, Bkk ) was paid by the company - Nomads World Travel , if anyone is interested.

And worth checking out , because , unlike any other Co. I investigated , they dont cease cover if you have been MORE than 30 or 90 days in one country - ie , they dont deem you as 'living' in that nation no matter how long you are there.

Every country should be requesting an Insurance Policy along with a passport as you enter , let alone 'emerging ' countries that are hard pressed to adequately treat there own ...

[Andrew65]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

British taxpayers are stupid for paying foreigner's medical bills. They should have kicked said person onto the streets.

While everyone in a genuine emergency should be treated first THEN asked to pay later, no one and especially not a foreigner (except in exceptional cases) should be discharged without payment.

There are some astoundingly stupid people on this forum. If a patient admitted to a UK hospital, is not entitled to free treatment but falls ill or is involved in an accident in the UK and has to be treated at the NHS's expense, how is refusing to discharge them going to help the NHS in any way. One of the biggest problems the NHS faces is a shortage of beds due in part to the fact that they cannot discharge patients until there is somewhere for them to go. In the case of the elderly, this can mean they cannot be discharged until some nursing home or sheltered accommodation can be arranged. There is a shortage of that so it can take some time. These patients are called "bed-blockers" and they are an increasing problem for the overstretched NHS. You think it's going to help to create a few more "bed-blockers" held in hospital captivity until they pay their bill; how exactly are you going to stop them just walking out the door, chain them to their bed!

There are very many people in the UK who are convinced that what you say in your second sentence is wrong in many cases (in reality).

.

You've obviously never heard of health & benefit tourism? These are some of the things that Mr Cameron was trying to change in his renegotiation with the EU.

In one of my other posts, I have quoted a conservative estimate of £65 million, as the amount of money owed to the NHS by overseas patients.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Andrew65