Refused entry on Thai passport

[4evermaat]

Samran has not chimed in yet.   But OP seems to have done everything ok.   Maybe the technicality of checking into the flight on thai passport would have been useful.

[speckio]

I am fairly certain they denied your children entry because there is no record of them leaving the country on the thai passport.

 

 

[seabass69]

1 hour ago, DerringDo said:

 

Sorry but this is not correct.

 

Our kids enter and leave every other country on their British passport and enter Thailand on their Thai passport. Never ever been an issue.

Checking in at the airline counter, and passing through immigration at the departure airport are two different things.

[kiwikeith]

20 hours ago, Aussietraveller said:

Travel was as follows.

Kids travelled Australia to BKK on their Australian Passports

Stayed in LOS several weeks

Travelled BKK to HKG on Australian Passports

Stay 1 week

Depart HKG on Australian Passports

Arrive BKK and at that point the kids were refused entry on their Thai passports

Immigration officer said we could use their Australian Passports, but not their Thai.

His manner to me suggested that it was more about his power than anything.

He refused to talk to me and would only speak to my wife who responded with thai subservience to Authority and a few Ka,s

They knew we had been using another passport as the kids Thai passports were new, with no stamps.

 

 

I take my Kid out of NZ on his NZ passport, enter Thailand on Thai passport, no problem.

leave Thailand on Thai passport and Re - enter NZ on his NZ, no problems ever, the problem may be that the kids left Thailand on Aussie passports and should re enter on those.

Immigration NZ refused a expat Brit entry into NZ on his British passport even though he lived in NZ over 30 years as he left NZ on  NZ passport he had to re enter on that passport.

So that is where the problem may lye, next time you leave Oz use Oz passport and enter Thailand on Thai and leave on Thai.

They had no record of the kids entry into Thailand other than on Aussie passports so that is where they may have been suspicious.

[Topah]

Ask for supervisor is the best thing you do. I've been travelling 10 years in and out of Thailand and even seasoned immigration agents have done several mistakes.

 

Problem asking supervisor is that I guess usually the officers and supervisors sit down at the same dinner tables at their free time so even if they are wrong, it might be difficult to admit for them.

 

I have double nationality child as well and everytime out and in with Thai passport. No problems.

 

But I guess everyone of us had some good and bad experiences with immigration:

 

1. Once I got stamped wrong date to my passport (I usually check this but was in a hurry)

2. Once I was stamped 1 month too long extension and got fined 10000 baht for 20 day overstay. Officer mistake so he had to pay it at the end. They were calling me and I had to do extra trip to immigration. Bummer.

3. Officers go by the feel many times. In immigration my wife got so mad once so the officer made me run and drive with my car in traffic several hours to pickup some documents. Well we issued complaint about his facebook and other internet use while people were waiting and never saw him working there anymore. There is bad workers in every job thought. Good and bad. Samut Prakan where I used to do extensions is very fast and professional. CW is slow.

 

People make mistakes in every country and in every profession. In Thailand I don't suggest showing too much negative emotions dealing with officers. I've been stopped by traffic police so many times and once I learned to do the act of respect, it's been easy every time. Even if I am not wrong. Just swallow it like a man.

 

 

 

[BlindMagician]

Simple rule....

Anything (leave, enter, vote, eat, ...anything) to do with Thai authorities, use Thai passport.

Anything to do with Aussy authorities, use Aus passports.

Don't break the rule.

[samran]

2 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

Samran has not chimed in yet.   But OP seems to have done everything ok.   Maybe the technicality of checking into the flight on thai passport would have been useful.

Thanks for thinking of me. Don't post too much these days! 

 

Not saying he's done anything wrong, but the OP just should have held his ground and asked to speak to a supervisor who would have overruled the IO. A Thai citizen shouldnt have been denied unrestricted entry.

 

i suspect howver the 'reason' was that the kids don't have any exit stamps out of thailand in their Thai passports. If the kids were born OS that is to be expected, but if born in thailand they either left on an old Thai passport or the pareents decided to have them leave on the foreign passport. Would be interesting to know which one is the case.

 

long and short of it, if this happens again, create an almighty fuss and get a supervisor to over rule the IO.

 

for what it is worth as well, me and my blond haired blue eyed kids and wife arrived back from Europe on the weekend where we'd be using our oz and nz passports. 

 

We all got stamped back into the country no worries on our Thai passports. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by samran

[HHTel]

When leaving Thailand on a Thai passport with no visa for the country you are going to, the airline check-in will ask what your entitlement is to enter the country you are going to.  It's the airline's responsibility to check that you can legally enter the destination country as if you are refused,, they have to foot the bill for your return.  To cut that short, check in with your Thai passport and show your UK/US passport as being able to enter your destination.  Immigration will only need to see your Thai passport.  They couldn't care less whether you are entitled to enter the destination country.  

 

Rule of thumb:  If you're on Thai soil, then use your Thai passport.  If you're in the UK (for example) use your British passport.  Simple.  Never had a problem in 20+ years.  My Thai/English daughter arrived in London yesterday.  Straightforward and no problems.

[Waterloo]

4 hours ago, samran said:

Thanks for thinking of me. Don't post too much these days! 

 

Not saying he's done anything wrong, but the OP just should have held his ground and asked to speak to a supervisor who would have overruled the IO. A Thai citizen shouldnt have been denied unrestricted entry.

 

i suspect howver the 'reason' was that the kids don't have any exit stamps out of thailand in their Thai passports. If the kids were born OS that is to be expected, but if born in thailand they either left on an old Thai passport or the pareents decided to have them leave on the foreign passport. Would be interesting to know which one is the case.

 

long and short of it, if this happens again, create an almighty fuss and get a supervisor to over rule the IO.

 

for what it is worth as well, me and my blond haired blue eyed kids and wife arrived back from Europe on the weekend where we'd be using our oz and nz passports. 

 

We all got stamped back into the country no worries on our Thai passports. 

 

Both our children were born in the UK and never had a problem with them entering Thailand on there Thai passports even when they were brand new with no Thai exit visa!

They always leave the UK on there British passports and enter Thailand on their Thai passports and then reverse the process. 

[oldlakey]

7 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

I don't really understand what you are saying. This is standard procedure for many Thai/US citizens. I had previously posed the question to the US Embassy in Thailand, and they informed me that they saw no problems. 

Hello SpokaneAl

The facts in my first post are self explanatory 

They were aimed at citizens of the USA who were not conversant with these facts

An american friend of mine did not know but he does now

All he was trying to do was use his dual passport when exiting the USA to get a visa exempt entry instead of buying a visa on his USA passport

I simply picked on your post to quote because you said quite clearly that your wife entered and exited the USA on her USA passport

Then she did the same with Thailand with her Thai passport

Absolutely nothing aimed at you personally 

I hope this makes it clear

 

 

[Jaggg88]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

She could of entered on her expired Thai passport. Who said she couldn't do it.

 

My wife entered on her expired Thai passport last year and the airline also accepted the expired Thai passport as proof she didn't need a visa for her 6 week stay. She renewed her passport while she was there. You just need to prove citizenship which a current or an expired passport will do.

[seabass69]

2 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Hello SpokaneAl

The facts in my first post are self explanatory 

They were aimed at citizens of the USA who were not conversant with these facts

An american friend of mine did not know but he does now

All he was trying to do was use his dual passport when exiting the USA to get a visa exempt entry instead of buying a visa on his USA passport

I simply picked on your post to quote because you said quite clearly that your wife entered and exited the USA on her USA passport

Then she did the same with Thailand with her Thai passport

Absolutely nothing aimed at you personally 

I hope this makes it clear

 

 

 

What's a 'dual passport'?

[Johpa]

1 hour ago, Jaggg88 said:

 

My wife entered on her expired Thai passport last year and the airline also accepted the expired Thai passport as proof she didn't need a visa for her 6 week stay. She renewed her passport while she was there. You just need to prove citizenship which a current or an expired passport will do.

 

Just a few months ago my wife attempted to enter Thailand on her recently expired Thai passport but was told that she must use her American passport to enter the Kingdom.  Prior to departure she had been told by an employee of the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles that she could enter on her expired passport, but that she must renew before returning.  Thus once again we see that Thai immigration officials are not consistent in their application of whatever laws may exist on the books.  Chaiyo!

[samran]

3 hours ago, Waterloo said:

 

Both our children were born in the UK and never had a problem with them entering Thailand on there Thai passports even when they were brand new with no Thai exit visa!

They always leave the UK on there British passports and enter Thailand on their Thai passports and then reverse the process. 

Indeed, that is the way it should happen.

 

We've has different experiences.

 

Once when I turned up with a new Thai PP obtained overseas they asked for my expired one (which I happened to have) and they stamped me in on that. 

 

My sister once whizzed in on a london embassy issued Thai PP with no stamps, no problems whar so ever.

 

My mother, a dual national too, plonked both australian and Thai passports down in front of the IO and they stamped her on the Thai passport. 

 

Anyway, will take my leave right now. Don't post much here any more as I have a real life stalker who follows me on TV. He's even decided to 'follow' me on TV a few days ago. Best log off so not to feed his ego. 

 

All the the best to the OP. 

[F4UCorsair]

15 hours ago, maoro2013 said:

That is not necessarily correct. My daughter has two passports also and we use one to depart the home country and the, other,  Australian one to enter Thailand. There has never been an issue.

Exactly right, nothing to do wirh the manifest.  

[mikosan]

On 8/9/2016 at 3:52 PM, kkpat said:

When you check in for your flight, you must use the passport you intend to use on arrival.

Otherwise it wont match the flight manifest.

Wrong! On many occasions I have left Thailand using my Australian passport, because that's the passport that I entered Thailand with and contains my visas and entry stamps. On arrival in the UK, or anywhere else where it might be more convenient, the EU for example, I use my British passport, no problem,.

[aquario33]

ASEAN Rules??

Its depending which countries you travel from or to. If you leave ASEAN , lets say travel to Europe,it might work , to switch Passports for avoiding Visa Requierements once coming back. But, within ASEAN its required to use the same Passport where your Exit was stamped. So told me Laotian Immigration Officer  recently few weeks ago coming from Thailand into Laos , though by Landborder. Since i was entry stamped in BKK on my Italian Passport and tried to enter Laos with Swiss Passport , without exit stamp , was refused to switch( free Visa on Arrival is granted for  Swiss Citizen ).He said they had agreements within ASEAN to follow up and enforce such practices.

But the most funny thing is, travelling from BKK to Manila several times, always could choose which Passport to enter with, regardless Exit stamp or not.Same story coming back to BKK again, always free choice , regardless Exit stamp from Manila.

Thats showing clearly , there is no constant practice nowadays, confusion seems to be a big issue at different Immigrations.

Or, is it just another money making related background. Who knows.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, Johpa said:

 

Just a few months ago my wife attempted to enter Thailand on her recently expired Thai passport but was told that she must use her American passport to enter the Kingdom.  Prior to departure she had been told by an employee of the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles that she could enter on her expired passport, but that she must renew before returning.  Thus once again we see that Thai immigration officials are not consistent in their application of whatever laws may exist on the books.  Chaiyo!

That appears to be another case of taking the officer's words at the desk as law. When that happens ask for a supervisor. 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, aquario33 said:

ASEAN Rules??

Its depending which countries you travel from or to. If you leave ASEAN , lets say travel to Europe,it might work , to switch Passports for avoiding Visa Requierements once coming back. But, within ASEAN its required to use the same Passport where your Exit was stamped. So told me Laotian Immigration Officer  recently few weeks ago coming from Thailand into Laos , though by Landborder. Since i was entry stamped in BKK on my Italian Passport and tried to enter Laos with Swiss Passport , without exit stamp , was refused to switch( free Visa on Arrival is granted for  Swiss Citizen ).He said they had agreements within ASEAN to follow up and enforce such practices.

But the most funny thing is, travelling from BKK to Manila several times, always could choose which Passport to enter with, regardless Exit stamp or not.Same story coming back to BKK again, always free choice , regardless Exit stamp from Manila.

Thats showing clearly , there is no constant practice nowadays, confusion seems to be a big issue at different Immigrations.

Or, is it just another money making related background. Who knows.

It is not ASEAN rules.

It is standard procedure at border crossings for them to insist on using the same passport used for departure from Thailand for entry to the other country. They want to see a stamp showing a person legally departed the country. Same when returning from the other country Thai immigration will want to see stamps for the other country.

At airports they do not look for departure stamps from another country.

[aquario33]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is not ASEAN rules.

It is standard procedure at border crossings for them to insist on using the same passport used for departure from Thailand for entry to the other country. They want to see a stamp showing a person legally departed the country. Same when returning from the other country Thai immigration will want to see stamps for the other country.

At airports they do not look for departure stamps from another country.

So what is the hurdle to stamp Entry in my other Passport, which i would be granted free VOA showing to the Laotian IO both Passports ? The EXIT Stamp was showed of course in advance. .Its the same person. Just different citizenship.Same Name, Birthday etc.

(According to this IO its indeed a ASEAN made rule.) *

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, aquario33 said:

So what is the hurdle to stamp Entry in my other Passport, which i would be granted free VOA showing to the Laotian IO both Passports ? The EXIT Stamp was showed of course in advance. .Its the same person. Just different citizenship.Same Name, Birthday etc.

(According to this IO its indeed a ASEAN made rule.) *

You need to  ask Thai, Lao, Myanmar, Cambodia  and Malaysia immigration why they have that requirement. 

I think you would findout it is standard practice worldwide not just here if you did a bit of research.

[aquario33]

Its just confusing because it was accepted several times travelling by Plane as mentioned before. The fact that the handling is different while crossing by landborder was confusing for me, especially as i was unaware and it was unexpected .

In other words, i could fly in from BKK to Vientiane and then switch passports...? Thats a little strange to me. Since its still the same countries travelling from / to.

 

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, aquario33 said:

Its just confusing because it was accepted several times travelling by Plane as mentioned before. The fact that the handling is different while crossing by landborder was confusing for me, especially as i was unaware and it was unexpected .

In other words, i could fly in from BKK to Vientiane and then switch passports...? Thats a little strange to me. Since its still the same countries travelling from / to.

 

I think they have the rule at border crossing because it could be possible at some crossing to depart the other country without being stamped out of it.

[SoFarAndNear]

Sound really like racial harassment because your kids are just half Thai....

[dbrenn]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:54 PM, GarryP said:

I left the UK on my British passport two weeks ago and entered Thailand on my Thai passport. Absolutely no problem. I went through the automatic gates for Thais though. I do not understand how they could have known which passports your children used when leaving Australia/Hong Kong.

 

Ditto - I regularly fly between Oz/UK and Thailand, switching to my Thai passport mid-flight - something which no law prohibits me from doing. The automatic gates are a blessing - no need to face a dullard immigration officer and answer stupid and irrelevant questions after a long flight.

 

As Ubonjoe said, asking for a formal denial of entry, or asking to see a supervisor would be the best thing to do.

Edited August 11, 2016 by dbrenn

[aquario33]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think they have the rule at border crossing because it could be possible at some crossing to depart the other country without being stamped out of it.

....as i mentioned.....stamped out with one Passport already.  A part of that , i guess ( illegal) crossing the Mekong for gambling etc. is still practiced .Doesnt have to do anything with Dual citizenship IMO.

[Johpa]

15 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That appears to be another case of taking the officer's words at the desk as law. When that happens ask for a supervisor. 

 

If one is a Farang it is easy to ask for a supervisor, you exist outside the social structure.  If one is Thai and has the assurance that you are socially superior to the immigration agent then one may ask for a supervisor.  But most Thais, especially from a more rural "upcountry" background, are not going to engage in any action that might cause a bureaucrat to lose face by asking to go up the chain of command as it is much safer to go with the flow and then maybe seek out a phu yai to negotiate at a later point in time.

[Arkady]

On 8/9/2016 at 9:32 PM, Maestro said:

 

That was the problem. Immigration expects a Thai national to return to Thailand with the same passport with which he left Thailand, and expects a foreigner to leave Thailand with the same passport with which he entered Thailand.

 

Dual Thai nationals should generally take care never to use the non-Thai passport in Thailand so as not to jeopardise their Thai nationality.

 

That said, it is true that in the case of your children the immigration officer would have had to back down if your wife had stood her ground. It is also true that the Immigration Bureau would have had the right to recommend to the Minister of the Interior that he revoke the Thai nationality of your children under section 17 of the Nationality Act B.E.2551 as amended by the Nationality Act (No.4) B.E.2551:

 

 

 

Actually there is no way under the Nationality Act that anyone who is Thai by birth to a Thai parent can involuntarily lose their Thai nationality. This right will be significantly reinforced by the new constitution which says in Section 39 para 2 "Revocation of Thai nationality acquired by birth of a person shall not be permitted." That is new wording that has not been in any of the previous constitutions.

 

Once the constitution is promulgated Section 39 para 1 will deal with the OP's problem, "No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."  This wording has been in the last 2 or more constitutions. 

 

In this situation you should not bow and scrape to the ignorant toad of an immigration officer like the OP's wife did.  You should stand your ground and demand to see a supervisor and quote Section 39 of the constitution to him, if he has a problem.  No one has ever reported not being allowed in on a Thai passport after calling for a supervisor and there are a number of Thai language threads on this very topic.  But in the last resort, demand a "Entry denied" stamp in the Thai passport, as suggested here, and tell them you are going to sue them in the Administrative Court for denying a Thai citizen a constitutional right.

[Maestro]

Thank you for adding that information about the constitution, Arkady. I always thought that the power of revocation given by the Nationality Act to the Minister of the Interior was unfair and now I know why I have seen no case of it having been used.

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

Thank you for adding that information about the constitution, Arkady. I always thought that the power of revocation given by the Nationality Act to the Minister of the Interior was unfair and now I know why I have seen no case of it having been used.

 

Naturalised Thais can still have their citizenship revoked but Section 39 in the new constitution will now remove the ambiguity over Thais who naturalise as aliens and the confusion over the rights to Thai citizenship of children born to one Thai parent and one foreign parent, although it was, in fact, the case since 1992 that they had only an option but not an obligation to renounce Thai citizenship at the age of 20, if they chose to retain foreign citizenship. 

 

Interestingly Section 39 of the new constitution also would appear to contradict the Nationality Act which allows for revocation of citizenship from those who are Thai through birth in the Kingdom to two foreign parents (since 1972 both parents must have permanent residence at the time of birth).  These Thais were traditionally the main targets for revocation of Thai citizenship and have accounted for nearly 100% of cases announced in the Royal Gazette to my knowledge. The only other revocation announcements I have seen have been of women who adopted their husbands' Thai nationality under Section 9 of the Nationality Act.  For them the only grounds for revocation are lying in the original application or offences against morality (only seen following conviction of a serious offence such as drug trafficking in Thailand or overseas).   That will leave naturalised Thais now as the only Thais that can lose their Thai nationality for maintaining excessive interest (undefined) in their former nationality or residing abroad for 5 years without maintaining residence in the Kingdom.  Obviously the original purpose of this measure was to control the vast numbers of Chinese immigrants who obtained Thai nationality through birth in Thailand to Chinese parents and maintained Chinese nationality and cultural identity.  Many Chinese Thais lost their Thai citizenship for spending more than 5 years in China and in the Cold War, many found themselves separated from family in Thailand for 30 years,  as they were denied visas as well.  These revocations involving Chinese and Indian names, as well as one Brit, have continued until the late 2000s.  There is no recorded case of which I am aware of a naturalised Thai or a Thai naturalised as an alien losing their Thai nationality involuntarily since 1965.  Prior to the 1965 Nationality Act prohibitions on dual citizenship were more explicit and there were cases of Thais having their citizenship revoked for naturalising as aliens.  Naturalised Thais used to often surrender their Thai citizenship voluntarily in order to recover their original nationalities when they returned home to counties like the UK that used to strictly prohibit dual nationality (until 1948 in the case of the UK).