Pattaya going downhill!

[pepi2005]

The Indians at least don't seem to have any issues with missing sidewalks whatsoever, today I even saw them peacefully strolling on the 2nd lane of 3rd road, their braveness as well as the Chinese busses slowly making their way through any form of congestion may be one explanation of why the city is still not 'abandoned'. :-)

Looks as if the TAT's effort to attract 'high quality tourists' has paid off after all.

[pepi2005]

On a less polemic note and in response to JSixPack's post above, I know firsthand from a property sales agent that Chinese buyers are almost making up for Russians, Americans and Europeans already. That may explain why property prices are still relatively high (although big discounts can be found also when negotiating hard, at least in Pattaya). Chinese seem to have serious issues getting enough funds out of their country, but many of them still find ways to buy. So the 'first wave' of Chinese tourists who were forced to travel with package tours and not leave their group seem to have been supplemented by quite a number of independent travelers and business travelers who are interested to invest in Thailand. She also told me of Chinese investment groups planning big hotel purchases and constructions in major Thai cities (like Chiang Mai, Pattaya etc.), so we can expect more to come.

[JSixpack]

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 10:27 AM, morrobay said:

 

Indeed, Central Festival  Mall / Hilton  -  Along with driving around in circles all day

seems to be the main attraction in Pattaya these days. What a difference 6 years made

 

Pattaya offers something for all sorts of tastes. Now it has extended its appeal beyond what it had 6 years ago to reach a larger audience. And you'll just have to suck it up. In that wide range, anyone is entitled to find what he may consider his own main attraction. We all know quite well from your whinging that the main attraction may no longer be there for you. That's awfully sad, but you see we just don't care. You know what to do. For me, some things are less attractive but then the new developments more than make up for the loss. Meanwhile, I consider that the main attraction is still there; and it ain't driving around in circles all day. 

[JSixpack]

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 1:31 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Whenever I go in most of the small shops seem devoid of customers, but that is true of malls most places in Thailand.

 

The ol' my eyeballs at random intervals doesn't tell you anything meaningful about mall success, just like our lights on at night measure of condo sales. I've quoted above from a quarterly report. Truth is you don't know anything about the mall business, as you've shown already. As I told fforest1 earlier this year:

 

On Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 2:45 PM, JSixpack said:

The upscale "super regional" mall I frequented in the past, one of the best, richest, and continually successful in the USA since 1958, has 250 retail spaces. A few of them are always vacant and awaiting a new tenant. Since it was built probably 10 other big malls have also been built in the suburbs surrounding. Only a handful of shops remain from those 30 years ago and the original flagships have all gone, replaced with others. If any ol' TVF deathwatcher waddled around in there at some random interval during the week, his ol' eyeballs wouldn't see that many shoppers, certainly not enough to support the vast wealth represented there. And he just would NOT be able to understand how it stays in business and predict its imminent closure.

 

CentralFestival Pattaya Beach (that's "Centeral Festival") has 370 shops. So you just go around all 7 floors periodically, not just the basement (those little stalls don't count), and let us know when you count more than 10%--that's 37--"boarded up." Report back and then you can chortle and gurgle and we'll agree there's a problem. Otherwise, please refrain from silliness, thank you.

 

Still waiting on fforest1's report.

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

 

Pattaya offers something for all sorts of tastes. Now it has extended its appeal beyond what it had 6 years ago to reach a larger audience. And you'll just have to suck it up. In that wide range, anyone is entitled to find what he may consider his own main attraction. We all know quite well from your whinging that the main attraction may no longer be there for you. That's awfully sad, but you see we just don't care. You know what to do. For me, some things are less attractive but then the new developments more than make up for the loss. Meanwhile, I consider that the main attraction is still there; and it ain't driving around in circles all day. 

Reading comprehension issues? " We all know from your whinging the main attraction may no longer be there for you " ???.  Driving around in circles all day was referring to the masses doing just that.

 I have enough main attractions  and  have always stated that is the main attraction and if not , why would anyone stay long term.  

Edited August 28, 2016 by morrobay

[NanLaew]

43 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Reading comprehension issues? " We all know from your whinging the main attraction may no longer be there for you " ???.  Driving around in circles all day was referring to the masses doing just that.

 I have enough main attractions  and  have always stated that is the main attraction and if not , why would anyone stay long term.  

 

Stop obfuscating.

 

Do you admit to the fact that both yourself and thaibeachlovers were (literally) predicting the IMMINENT collapse of Pattaya in 2009?

 

Do you admit to claiming that Pattaya's local daily crime figures exceed Vietnam's national daily crime figures?

 

Do you need another shovel?

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Reading comprehension issues? " We all know from your whinging the main attraction may no longer be there for you " ???.  Driving around in circles all day was referring to the masses doing just that.

 I have enough main attractions  and  have always stated that is the main attraction and if not , why would anyone stay long term.  

 

Note the word may. Well, then, why worry about what others may find their main attraction? If you're truly one of the elites, then you needn't concern yourself with the lowly masses or if you must then you regard them with a spirit of noblesse oblige. Let's just live and let live without our haughty noses in the air all the time. And stop nitpicking in a desperate attempt to be right about something.

 

In fact we have a large number not merely staying but actually living here who don't share your notion of what is the main attraction. SHOCK! Go find some in When boredom starts to rule the day, I Love Pattaya, and Why live in Pattaya?

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[Bender]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Stop obfuscating.

 

Do you admit to the fact that both yourself and thaibeachlovers were (literally) predicting the IMMINENT collapse of Pattaya in 2009?

 

Do you admit to claiming that Pattaya's local daily crime figures exceed Vietnam's national daily crime figures?

 

Do you need another shovel?

"Do you admit to claiming that Pattaya's local daily crime figures exceed Vietnam's national daily crime figures?"

 

No, that was me who claimed that But i admit, i exaggerated a little bit  

 

(because the Stray troll posted few crimes in Vietnam claiming how much this country is unsafe. You can not reply seriously to this kind of nonsense )

[Flanno]

That's a very intelligent and well thought post Jeffery. Did it take long to compose it? Since you have obviously been to Pattaya was there anything there that pleased you?

[Rimmer]

A Pattaya bashing troll post has been removed

[thaibeachlovers]

On 28 สิงหาคม 2559 at 0:37 PM, JSixpack said:

 

Still clueless after all these years, lessons unlearned. Still hopin' for a return to the 80s and 90s.

 

TVF economic authorities such as yourself (with well-established credentials) endlessly perpetuate the myth that replacing (not adding to) the supposedly departed "high class" (we're so class conscious!), those golden egg layers now staying in fleabags around Soi Buakhao, are merely the low class and getting lower tourists. Both domestic and foreign. Chanting this gospel is now one of the rituals needed for that serious forum cred, so we often hear it.

 

To judge by all the w@nk-posts about Chinese tourists, the "foreign" mainly refers to, ah, poor Chinese scavenging in the rubble, not spending anything. It's so disgusting that City Hall forces corporations to tell outrageous lies like the following, cookin' the books to fool all them stupid auditors and analysts (TVF authorities know better!):

 

Improved performance of existing projects e.g. at CentralWorld, CentralPlaza Lardprao, CentralPlaza Pattaya Beach, etc., supported by spending from foreign tourists mainly from China and Korea during their summer travel season. . . . On a q-o-q basis, revenues from hotel operation increased by 6% thanks mainly to higher occupancy and room rate at Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel with occupancy high at 92% in the third quarter, enhancing RevPar up 4% q-o-q as a result of an increasing number of Chinese and Korean tourist visits during their travel season in July-August. . . . continuing growth in hotel business with higher occupancy in this quarter on the back of increasing number of foreign tourists visiting Hilton Pattaya Beach Hotel. . . . However, the food court at CentralFestival Pattaya Beach experienced revenue growth, driven by higher traffic from tourist visits in the third quarter.

Central Pattana PCL, Performance Overview: Overall economic condition in 3Q15

And since all TVF economic experts absolutely KNOW that Chinese tourists only spend money in Chinese venues (like, cough, Central and the Hilton--and now Tesco Lotus and Foodland, as I saw quite a few in there recently), we have the completely bizarre situation whereby Thai banks kindly provide up to 166 billion baht to Chinese tourists, and therefore to China, for no possible reason other than for Immigration to collect visa fees over one holiday!

Oh dear, do you not understand that "Certainly it's not the Chinese package tours spending money in there" does not refer to those Chinese that spend money in Central and stay in the Hilton?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 28 สิงหาคม 2559 at 10:18 AM, balo said:

 

Not seen them in Jomtien  , and I frequent the bars there often . I think soi Boakaow attracts a certain type of Brits.  Can't prove it though , just my observation. 

 

Soi Yamato attracts them, due to bars quaintly named after dog's reproductive organs and such. I stayed on Soi Yamato once so I know it well.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

The ol' my eyeballs at random intervals doesn't tell you anything meaningful about mall success, just like our lights on at night measure of condo sales. I've quoted above from a quarterly report. Truth is you don't know anything about the mall business, as you've shown already. As I told fforest1 earlier this year:

 

 

Still waiting on fforest1's report.

You are coming very close to flaming with your personal comments insulting me. Try and keep it civil please.

After all, we both like Pattaya.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Stop obfuscating.

 

Do you admit to the fact that both yourself and thaibeachlovers were (literally) predicting the IMMINENT collapse of Pattaya in 2009?

 

Do you admit to claiming that Pattaya's local daily crime figures exceed Vietnam's national daily crime figures?

 

Do you need another shovel?

I have never predicted the imminent collapse of Pattaya that I can remember ( can you give me a quote in which I say that ), though I've often said that I WISH it would, so we could get rid of the undesirables that are changing Pattaya for the, IMO, worse. There are plenty of places in Thailand that welcome them, like Hua Hin or Samui, so I don't understand why they want to come to Pattaya with its broken infrastructure, terrible traffic, rubbish beach and awful reputation.

The things I like about Pattaya don't involve staying in expensive hotels, eating at expensive restaurants and playing golf.

 

And for the benefit of JS Sixpack, I did love Pattaya as it was in the 90s, and don't so much now, but I certainly want to live there more than anywhere else in Thailand.

[JSixpack]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear, do you not understand that "Certainly it's not the Chinese package tours spending money in there" does not refer to those Chinese that spend money in Central and stay in the Hilton?

 

No, it's you who didn't understand that there are other Chinese visiting besides those on package tour--as otherwise you just could NOT understand HOW CentralFestival Pattaya Beach doesn't go bankrupt as you firmly prophesied 7 years ago (!). Anyway it hardly matters. You may question members of Chinese package tour if you wish to make absolutely sure that not one of them is staying at the Hilton. That would be a bit of an upgrade.

[londoedan]

There was interesting input on this topic included in Stickmans weekly yesterday.

 

He doesn't reckon that Pattaya is going, or has gone, downhill; but he does see a lot of changes happening.

[yaagjon]

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

 

No, it's you who didn't understand that there are other Chinese visiting besides those on package tour--as otherwise you just could NOT understand HOW CentralFestival Pattaya Beach doesn't go bankrupt as you firmly prophesied 7 years ago (!). Anyway it hardly matters. You may question members of Chinese package tour if you wish to make absolutely sure that not one of them is staying at the Hilton. That would be a bit of an upgrade.

TAT announced that 5 Chinese tourists spend as much as one Russian tourist.

Central won't go bankrupt because their costs are low and their many of their prices are comparable with the West, certainly the bread cutting board that I bought for 4,200 Baht earlier this year I could have bought a similar one for nearly half price in Australia.

[SheungWan]

On 27/08/2016 at 6:10 AM, balo said:

I happened to be in Soi Buakhow yesterday, walking from The Avenue. There was a tattooed Brit behind me swearing all the time , he was walking very fast and looked mentally ill.

He actually scared the shit out of me so I crossed the street to avoid any confrontation .  You don't see that in other areas of Pattaya. Just a reminder for me to stay away. 

 

 

 

 

I wondered who it was who ran across the road in front of me.

[Stray]

20 hours ago, Bender said:

"Do you admit to claiming that Pattaya's local daily crime figures exceed Vietnam's national daily crime figures?"

 

No, that was me who claimed that But i admit, i exaggerated a little bit  

 

(because the Stray troll posted few crimes in Vietnam claiming how much this country is unsafe. You can not reply seriously to this kind of nonsense )

 

Bender, Bender, Bender, like the cartoon character you use for your profile, you are a very confused individual.

 

With reference to my post #206, re-read (very, very, very slowly) my post #227.  Every word.

 

Where did I ever make any comparison of crime figures, or even crimes, between Vietnam and Pattaya?  I didn't!!!  You quickly scanned over my post and, without having any comprehension of what was being discussed, jumped in with one of your usual poorly thought out troll posts.

 

I understand that English is not your first language but it makes you look very foolish when you jump in to a post without any understanding of what is being discussed.

 

The topic at hand is a discussion on why some believe Pattaya is going downhill.  My addition to this topic is that this discussion can (and is) being thrown around at many large towns/cities, around SEA, which have a large population of expats.

[morrobay]

15 hours ago, Stray said:

 

 

The topic at hand is a discussion on why some believe Pattaya is going downhill.  My addition to this topic is that this discussion can (and is) being thrown around at many large towns/cities, around SEA, which have a large population of expats.

 

Ok your addition is well taken , albeit a besides the point point. Also it seems that there are several hills here being observed. Alot of the OP is on financials. And some here can make a selective case with spreadsheets and profits ( ad nauseum ) that Pattaya is not going downhill. The only thing I understand about economics is supply and demand, and that does not seem to apply here so far. So my  downhill  addition to topic is about the  surroundings - that has become a chaotic mess in the last 6-8 years. . And again if you visit Pattaya  that is the comparison topic I was referring to before. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by morrobay

[rott]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soi Yamato attracts them, due to bars quaintly named after dog's reproductive organs and such. I stayed on Soi Yamato once so I know it well.

You stayed on Soi Yamato ONCE so you know it well. Yes OK, fair enough, I take your point. And  the Dogs B.... hasn't been the place it became known as for about 15 years.

 

But "Pattaya going downhill", not 'arf, sheesh, tell me about it. When I was last in Soi Yamato about a month ago I heard a gent saying to his friend (sorry I should use the correct TV term - bar-stool, boozing crony) "there is a Post Office in 13/2". I could not believe my ....ing ears.

 

The lunatics are at the gate and the barbarians have taken over the asylum. Going downhil? The gaff is finished.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

21 hours ago, londoedan said:

There was interesting input on this topic included in Stickmans weekly yesterday.

 

He doesn't reckon that Pattaya is going, or has gone, downhill; but he does see a lot of changes happening.

Yes, a lot of changes are happening and many point to a reality:  Pattaya-Jomtien is going downhill fast.  It is astonishing how much effort a certain poster (not you Londoendan) is exerting to put lipstick on an obvious pig, while insulting every person who disgrees with him.  Most, not all, of the people I have been talking with (restaurant owners, people heavily invested in real estate, expats in general) say that it "has never been this bad."  Many want to sell their condo or business and get out of here. 

[thaibeachlovers]

59 minutes ago, rott said:

You stayed on Soi Yamato ONCE so you know it well. Yes OK, fair enough, I take your point. And  the Dogs B.... hasn't been the place it became known as for about 15 years.

 

 

Oh dear, perhaps you don't appreciate that "stayed once" can apply to staying a looooooooong time in one place, as I did. long enough to get to know it very well.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, Awohalitsiktoli said:

Yes, a lot of changes are happening and many point to a reality:  Pattaya-Jomtien is going downhill fast.  It is astonishing how much effort a certain poster (not you Londoendan) is exerting to put lipstick on an obvious pig, while insulting every person who disgrees with him.  Most, not all, of the people I have been talking with (restaurant owners, people heavily invested in real estate, expats in general) say that it "has never been this bad."  Many want to sell their condo or business and get out of here.

a certain poster (not you Londoendan) is exerting to put lipstick on an obvious pig

LOL. We all know who that is .

 

For myself it can't go downhill fast enough as that is the only way it will get back to the Pattaya I knew and loved. This whole going upmarket thing by city hall has only resulted in disasters like the beach walkway, the marina, the horrid thing obscuring the viewpoint and the stupid carpark at Bali Hi that destroyed the nice park there.

Not to forget allowing the speedboats to ruin the walkway to the lighthouse, and the ugly sandbags in the beach at the north end.

Plus, they allowed the walkway around the point to collapse.

Could they do any worse?

 

has never been this bad.

In their opinion, and I doubt they were there during Pattaya's heyday in the early 90s when there was NO condo boom, NO significant Russian presence, NO Central Festival and NO large numbers of Chinese package tourists.

The beach walkway was great, the walkway to the lighthouse was great, the barbeer scene was great, few bothered with sidewalk devoid Buakhao, and the place was pretty devoid of any pretensions to grandeur.

I really liked it back then. You could party all day and all night if you wanted.

IMO the rot set in when Purachai set out to destroy the farang bar scene and crime took off big time. Never been as good since.

Now, IMO, it's all about money and greed, but there are still some good things to go there for.

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear, perhaps you don't appreciate that "stayed once" can apply to staying a looooooooong time in one place, as I did. long enough to get to know it very well.

 

I lived in Soi Photisan for a looooooooong time... a looooooooong time ago. Beyond where it is, and driving down it maybe once a month, I wouldn't profess to knowing anything about it these days.

 

Do you need to borrow Bender's shovel then?

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

I lived in Soi Photisan for a looooooooong time... a looooooooong time ago. Beyond where it is, and driving down it maybe once a month, I wouldn't profess to knowing anything about it these days.

 

Do you need to borrow Bender's shovel then?

No. I still walk along it frequently when I stay in Pattaya and it hadn't changed that much last time I went, unless they demolished it all recently. Still has the same potholes from the 90s, LOL.

[Bender]

On 8/29/2016 at 8:00 PM, Stray said:

 

Bender, Bender, Bender, like the cartoon character you use for your profile, you are a very confused individual.

 

With reference to my post #206, re-read (very, very, very slowly) my post #227.  Every word.

 

Where did I ever make any comparison of crime figures, or even crimes, between Vietnam and Pattaya?  I didn't!!!  You quickly scanned over my post and, without having any comprehension of what was being discussed, jumped in with one of your usual poorly thought out troll posts.

 

I understand that English is not your first language but it makes you look very foolish when you jump in to a post without any understanding of what is being discussed.

 

The topic at hand is a discussion on why some believe Pattaya is going downhill.  My addition to this topic is that this discussion can (and is) being thrown around at many large towns/cities, around SEA, which have a large population of expats.

Confused? Lol

You are the one who is confused,

Who is the one, who posted a dozen of items crime news on a pattaya forum?

You never been to pattaya but you compare it to Vietnam. I am sure you never been to Vietnam either.

 

I wonder why you are wasting, your and our time on this subforum. 

[Bender]

10 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

I lived in Soi Photisan for a looooooooong time... a looooooooong time ago. Beyond where it is, and driving down it maybe once a month, I wouldn't profess to knowing anything about it these days.

 

Do you need to borrow Bender's shovel then?

No Stray stole my shovel long ago....

[Stray]

23 minutes ago, Bender said:

Confused? Lol

You are the one who is confused,

Who is the one, who posted a dozen of items crime news on a pattaya forum?

You never been to pattaya but you compare it to Vietnam. I am sure you never been to Vietnam either.

 

I wonder why you are wasting, your and our time on this subforum. 

 

Thank you Bender, you  just proved my comment.  I rest my case.