Dog attack on three year old - who should be responsible for dogs outside shops?

[thai3]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

If you are a parent and live on a busy street then it is your responsibility to take preventive measures to keep yoir child running into the street.

 

If you live in a country with a large soi dog population then it is equally your responsibility to safeguard your children against dog attack. 

 

If these pests were not there to infect kids and be laying about in shop doorways where they should not be anywhere at all, then parents would not have to be hyper vigilant all the time. Soi dogs are a pest, and in this case a deadly one, blame the dogs, not the victims.

[ClutchClark]

45 minutes ago, thai3 said:

 

If these pests were not there to infect kids and be laying about in shop doorways where they should not be anywhere at all, then parents would not have to be hyper vigilant all the time. Soi dogs are a pest, and in this case a deadly one, blame the dogs, not the victims.

 

Thats one of those PC expressions that is ridiculous to even say.

 

Many times victims share some responsibility in becoming victims. 

 

In this case, the little girl very likely approached the dog and she was able to do this because her caregivers failed to keep a close eye on her. Do you have kids? Its one of those parentsl responsibilities. The parents admit neither the father or mother was keeping a watchful eye on the 3-year old. 

 

She could have just as easily walked into traffic, but in this case she was bit by a dog.

 

she is aminor and much too young to be held responsible for her actions; however, her parents are her caregivers and responsible for her safety. Not the manager of 7-11. Not the society which they live. 

 

But...pulease...don't start with that don't blame the vixtim stuff because my stomach is already a bit unsettled this morning  ;-)

 

cheers

[gemguy]

Yep.....I have noticed that there are stray dogs hanging around in public places here and there and often found in front of the 7/11 stores.

Usually, when I look at that single dog lying in front of the door way and there because the dog is enjoying the cool air coming from inside the air conditioned store I am thinking: "Is this dog going to bite at me" when having to pass by only 1 or 2 feet away while entering the store.

Often I have observed the dog out of curiosity and I can see it "looks" like a pretty mild mannered dog and "looks" like it is not going to bite anyone ....but, the dog should not be there,  just in case...like what we read about in this OP.

Common sense says do not take the chance and better keep the dog or dogs away from the immediate entrance area and not anywhere near a high traffic entrance.....

Commonly if there are several dogs all hanging around in the same space then that is when it becomes more  risky as the dogs are all jockeying for dominance amongst one another and commonly growling and nipping at one another and on the defense or offence while that condition would heighten the chance of a person or child been bitten or even attacked by one or possibly all of the dogs if you have to pass close by or pass through several agitated dogs....while trying to pet them would not be advised, for example.

 

The dogs being a nuisance and all you would think the corporate executives of the 7/11 corporation, here in Thailand, would develop a corporate directive informing the employees and requesting the store location employees to try and keep stray dogs away from the 7/11 premises and the general area to avoid any possible problems....as in preventative measures.

 

But this being Thailand and the Thai mentality and all then that will probably not happen while they will  deal with it "when" it happens and claim it is not their concern or responsibility in any way.

 

Cheers

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by gemguy

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, thai3 said:

 

If these pests were not there to infect kids and be laying about in shop doorways where they should not be anywhere at all, then parents would not have to be hyper vigilant all the time. Soi dogs are a pest, and in this case a deadly one, blame the dogs, not the victims.

 

Thai3,

 

if these parents did not have to worry about soi dogs then there are still another 99 things to worry about as a parent of a 3-year old in Thailand  ;-)

 

But I do agree with you completely that there are too many strays around. 

 

I stepped in a pile of excrament about a week ago that was so foul it was worse than anything I have ever experienced in a lifetime of farming. I am not kidding...I don't know if it was soi dog or of human origin. 

 

I agree 100% that fewer soi dogs is a positive thing  ;-)

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. 

[Sayonarax]

On 8/26/2016 at 6:53 AM, ezzra said:

Feeding Soi/stray dogs in Thailand considered to be a merit making and some kind

of atonements for your sins of which Thai people not short of, never thinking that

by doing that they only create a menace and health problems to the neighborhood

and the city as a whole, but go and tell it to those people who still believes in ghosts

and apparitions of supernatural beings in their daily lives......

 

How do you even come to a point to compare stray dogs at a 711 to people who believe in ghosts and the supernatural?

[aquario33]

21 hours ago, HHTel said:

Nobody has mentioned that CP themselves encourage their 7/11's to have dogs outside.  They boast that they look after the dogs welfare by regular injections etc.  So if anyone is to be responsible it is the CP company.

 

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/7-11-stores-in-thailand-care-for-stray-dogs.html

where did you get this informations from?

[aquario33]

18 hours ago, Jimdbim said:

 

Sorry to say but the only one troll here is you.

 

you post some pic with zero explanation and then expect me to feel sorry for you?

 

ok, I am sorry but not the reasons who hoping 

the snarling dog is self explanatory isnt it?

[aquario33]

17 hours ago, Jimdbim said:

 

No body cares what happens in other countries and what other countries do is hardly a role model for the rest , otherwise you would not be here.

 

you can say same thing over and over again, may be in your mind it will make it a fact, but it does not.

 

parents duty to ensure child safety at all times , it is parents duty to educate the child in all aspects 

 

it is no one else's responsibility.

 

as already pointed out countless times , this time it was a dog, next time a car, a drain a pot hole and the list goes on.

 

time people start taking responsibility for their actions, inactions and just plain stupidity.

 

roads have speed limits , yet it does not stop idiots from speeding.

 

thailand has Soi dogs yet Idiots continue to let kids play around them without supervision.

 

in this case , you do not know if the dog was sleeping and child started to pull its tail or tongue or whatever. Clearly this dog lived there and did not attack anyone.

 

kids are known to do silly things to animals , and parents were not there to stop it. 

...of course governments are responsable to make public space safe for population,

....do you know if the child has done anything to the dog ? or just assuming ???

...maybe it had some food in its hands and the dog was hungry so it attacked without any warning ?

...apparently you dont have children and never happened that you lost a second to pay attention

...stray dogs are known as potentially aggressiv and doing silly things such as chasing motorbikes and police were not  there to stop them.....

[Shawn0000]

43 minutes ago, aquario33 said:

where did you get this informations from?

It is quite clear that they got it from the Chiangraitimes...

[aquario33]

17 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

I'm sorry, I just can't let this post go without a comment.

 

I have been attacked (a few times actually) whilst I have been on my scooter, in a dead-end soi on my way to my house; my daughter was attacked whilst walking just round the corner from my/our house (in that same soi); a friend had an accident on her motorbike when a dog ran out in the road and she actually hit it and she sustained minor injuries, the bike some scratches, and the dog ran off.

 

I know of another person whose child was viciously attacked whilst walking home from school and it is doubtful that the extensive surgery needed on his face will ever hide the scars.

 

If a dog has a mind to take a chunk out of somebody, then whether that somebody is alone or accompanied makes no difference (and children are especially vulnerable even if they are with other children) and to say that the parents have to take some responsibility for this attack is absolute nonsense. 

 

I absolutely have no time for someone like you who tries to sheet the blame back to the parents. All of us should be free to walk where we want to walk and at any time without fear of being attacked or bitten or even barked at by a soi dog.

 

Please, no more of your nonsense.

 

 

agree 100%

[aquario33]

6 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

It is quite clear that they got it from the Chiangraitimes...

oops , i just oversaw the link below..time for a coffee !

[joskeshake]

Sad for the girl.And if the goverment read this topic and want to do someting about it, in the soi where i live ( Soi 10 Bongkot) are 20 stray dogs, barking and fighting day and night,please do something before similar happens.

 

[ClutchClark]

On August 26, 2016 at 4:01 PM, xylophone said:

Jeez, this is getting ridiculous........... a poor young girl gets bitten by a stray dog which was probably very painful and traumatic for the girl and may well "scar" her for life one way or another.

 

I'm sure that I will fall foul of the folk who advocate leaving the stray dogs as they are, but here's my solution: – the local authorities should take control, all stray dogs should be rounded up and put in a large compound and if they are not claimed within "X" days, then they should be euthanised.

 

Simple and effective and takes potentially dangerous dogs off the streets/sois, as well as alleviating the suffering of many thousands of them, and also prevents stinking, possibly disease infected faeces from being deposited all around the place, and of course it makes it a safer place for children and adults by virtue of not being bitten, not being attacked whilst on a scooter, not having an accident as a result of a dog running into the road and not having to worry about the children picking up something nasty from dogs' faeces.

 

This already happens all over Thailand with some regularity. 

 

The populatins rebound quickly.

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

This already happens all over Thailand with some regularity. 

 

The populatins rebound quickly.

 

I would think then, that this does not happen often enough or is a "half-hearted effort".

 

It would probably take more than one measure to solve this problem, along with the one I already mentioned, and these could possibly be in the form of a tax on dog ownership or the law requiring every dog to be micro chipped, or measures along these lines.

 

It can be done, because I have not seen this problem occurring in other countries I have lived in around the world, so whatever measures are in place there, could be replicated here. But then again this is Thailand and is a place where there is a couldn't care less attitude to most things, including the law, lack of understanding of consequence and common sense in most cases, so it's a hard ask.

 

Having said that, if the government/local authorities really put some effort into it and there was payment for every dog rounded up and euthanised, that it might just work.

[richard_smith237]

15 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I understand the point you are making but its ultimately the parents responsibility just like if she had been bitten bya snake or run over by a motorbike. 

 

Parents have to keep a close watch on their children and that goes double in Thailand where risk is ever-present. 

 

It has nothing to do with the dogs rights.

 

I disagree.... Strays by their very nature shouldn't be there...  Just like Motorcycles shouldn't be driving down the sidewalks of Bangkok.

 

Last year I was walking down the sidewalk with my Son - pushing him in his pushchair.... I didn't take a taxi because I didn't want to go in a vehicle which had no seatbelts and no baby chair. 

Motorcycles were buzzing past us on the Sidewalk - It felt unsafe and I was worried one was going to hit the pushchair. 

 

Now - Had a motorcycle hit the pushchair, the logic of some on this forum would suggest I am at fault.... 

 

The Fact is - Motocycles shouldn't be riding down the sidewalk and stray dogs shouldn't outside 7-11 or any other areas of high footfall. 

 

Someone is responsible for not doing anything to prevent these issues, in effect allowing them to exist. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ClutchClark]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I disagree.... Strays by their very nature shouldn't be there...  Just like Motorcycles shouldn't be driving down the sidewalks of Bangkok.

 

Last year I was walking down the sidewalk with my Son - pushing him in his pushchair.... I didn't take a taxi because I didn't want to go in a vehicle which had no seatbelts and no baby chair. 

Motorcycles were buzzing past us on the Sidewalk - It felt unsafe and I was worried one was going to hit the pushchair. 

 

Now - Had a motorcycle hit the pushchair, the logic of some on this forum would suggest I am at fault.... 

 

The Fact is - Motocycles shouldn't be riding down the sidewalk and stray dogs shouldn't outside 7-11 or any other areas of high footfall. 

 

Someone is responsible for not doing anything to prevent these issues, in effect allowing them to exist. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These dogs are not "strays" as we Westerners define and as you are using the term. Thailand has a different definition for Soi Dogs. They are collectively cared for. Just this morning I saw a Thai providing eye drops to a soi dog. 

 

If you were to attempt to take that Soi dog in daylight in front of a crowd you would be challenged by local Thai that would claim a loose caretaker rle for the soi dog. 

 

As for motorbikes on sidwalks, to be clear I never suggested the child would risk being hit by a motorbike on the sidewalk (although it is possible), I had thought about the unaccompanied girl wandering into the street. 

 

As for whether motorbikes "belong" on sidewalks--or not. The question is moot. Motorbikes are found on the sidewalks all over the cities. 

 

As a parent, you have the primary responsibility to provide for the safety for your child. It matters not whether a motorbike is on the sidewalk or the street or whether the dog belongs to a Westerner and is on a leash or whether it is a soi dog. Ultimate responsibility falls on you the parent. 

 

You ain't in Kansas anymore ;-)

 

i am amazed how many parents I see over here and I ask them if they brought their childs medical records with them on thumb drive or can access them in google docs--they look at me in disbelief. I ask if they know where the life jackets are on the Samui ferry. Again a look of disbelief. 

 

If a parent wants to bring their child to Thailand then they are a danger to themselves and their child if they attempt to apply and have an expectation that everything is just like back home. 

 

 

[ClutchClark]

On 8/27/2016 at 5:30 PM, xylophone said:

 

I would think then, that this does not happen often enough or is a "half-hearted effort".

 

It would probably take more than one measure to solve this problem, along with the one I already mentioned, and these could possibly be in the form of a tax on dog ownership or the law requiring every dog to be micro chipped, or measures along these lines.

 

It can be done, because I have not seen this problem occurring in other countries I have lived in around the world, so whatever measures are in place there, could be replicated here. But then again this is Thailand and is a place where there is a couldn't care less attitude to most things, including the law, lack of understanding of consequence and common sense in most cases, so it's a hard ask.

 

Having said that, if the government/local authorities really put some effort into it and there was payment for every dog rounded up and euthanised, that it might just work.

 

I cannot respond any more thoroughly than you aready have ;-)

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I disagree.... Strays by their very nature shouldn't be there...  Just like Motorcycles shouldn't be driving down the sidewalks of Bangkok.

 

Last year I was walking down the sidewalk with my Son - pushing him in his pushchair.... I didn't take a taxi because I didn't want to go in a vehicle which had no seatbelts and no baby chair. 

Motorcycles were buzzing past us on the Sidewalk - It felt unsafe and I was worried one was going to hit the pushchair. 

 

Now - Had a motorcycle hit the pushchair, the logic of some on this forum would suggest I am at fault.... 

 

The Fact is - Motocycles shouldn't be riding down the sidewalk and stray dogs shouldn't outside 7-11 or any other areas of high footfall. 

 

Someone is responsible for not doing anything to prevent these issues, in effect allowing them to exist. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard,

 

There is always a gap between the way the world should be and the way it is. 

In Thailand that gap is quite large for our Western way of thought.

But the Thais are overall happy with their system...it seems to work for them since they make little effort to change it. 

 

I like what you said about recognizing dangers of taxis with no seat belts. Obviously you have an awareness of things. Just an FYI but the taxis have typically tucked the seat belts under the rear seat and you can pull them free or they can do it. 

 

 

[MyFriend You]

15 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Do Vietnamese consider dog meat a delicacy?

 

Serious question.

Yes, but most people only eat dog meat at weddings, birthdays, funerals, and other special occasions.  Even In my rural area, you can't find dog meat just by going to the market, you have to order it. They don't eat just any dog either, most are cultivated for that purpose.  There are people that will eat enything that walks crawls swims slithers etc etc etc, but thats a small part of the population.   BTW its not cheap either.......kind of like Belgians eating Horse Meat, its a specialty, but whas the difference??

[Dumbastheycome]

Used  to be  around this  area that eating  dog  was  the special occasion! Very  quickly it seems have lost  appeal.

[Bender]

half million of stray dogs roaming the street of thailand..... beware!

[ableguy]

On 26 สิงหาคม 2559 at 6:53 AM, ezzra said:

Feeding Soi/stray dogs in Thailand considered to be a merit making and some kind

of atonements for your sins of which Thai people not short of, never thinking that

by doing that they only create a menace and health problems to the neighborhood

and the city as a whole, but go and tell it to those people who still believes in ghosts

and apparitions of supernatural beings in their daily lives......

And monks selling lottery winning numbers.

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

These dogs are not "strays" as we Westerners define and as you are using the term. Thailand has a different definition for Soi Dogs. They are collectively cared for. Just this morning I saw a Thai providing eye drops to a soi dog. 

 

If you were to attempt to take that Soi dog in daylight in front of a crowd you would be challenged by local Thai that would claim a loose caretaker rle for the soi dog. 

 

As for motorbikes on sidwalks, to be clear I never suggested the child would risk being hit by a motorbike on the sidewalk (although it is possible), I had thought about the unaccompanied girl wandering into the street. 

 

As for whether motorbikes "belong" on sidewalks--or not. The question is moot. Motorbikes are found on the sidewalks all over the cities. 

 

As a parent, you have the primary responsibility to provide for the safety for your child. It matters not whether a motorbike is on the sidewalk or the street or whether the dog belongs to a Westerner and is on a leash or whether it is a soi dog. Ultimate responsibility falls on you the parent. 

 

You ain't in Kansas anymore ;-)

 

i am amazed how many parents I see over here and I ask them if they brought their childs medical records with them on thumb drive or can access them in google docs--they look at me in disbelief. I ask if they know where the life jackets are on the Samui ferry. Again a look of disbelief. 

 

If a parent wants to bring their child to Thailand then they are a danger to themselves and their child if they attempt to apply and have an expectation that everything is just like back home. 

 

 

 

I agree with much of what you write - hence, when I was recently walking down the street with my Son I carried him past the dogs on the sidewalk, I also picked him up and carried him past the street stalls with boiling oil and grills... 

 

I agree that the Ultimate Responsibility is with the parents...  I also accept that the day I took my son with his pushchair down the pavement I didn't fully or accurately evaluate the risk associated with the numbers of motorbikes passing me on the sidewalks. As a result, I pretty much drive everywhere all of the time, but this is not always 100% possible and some places can only be accessed by foot. 

 

Additionally, I too consider the lifejackets on a ferry and escape routes in an enclosed ferry, also fire exits in a busy night club, I've even tested the fire-escape door in night clubs to check they are actually not locked up, I've walked out of nightclubs which do not have a fire escape. 

 

We take so much for granted in the West. 

 

All that said - Had the dog bitten me, or you or any adult - is the adult to be held responsible for being bitten because they were there ? IMO, the dog should not be there in the first place. A Western construct - perhaps, however, my rhetoric remains the same after reading many of the replies on this interesting thread.... This is an issue which can be resolved given adequate attention... i.e. if people cared enough about consequence - to do so, someone needs to be held accountable for otherwise avoidable issues. 

 

The Thai's I know don't like the numbers of Soi Dogs, they don't like a number of issues that exist in Thailand, but 'not being in Kansas anymore' is not an excuse for them, they are Thai, they live here and are forced to accept something they are not happy with because someone, some authority in the position of decision making power to do something about these issues instead choose apathy and do nothing. 

 

Are the parents responsible ? - well, they could have done something to avoid their child from being bitten, but IMO the responsibility still remains with those who permit a 'biting' and hence dangerous animal to remain in a public area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Richard,

 

There is always a gap between the way the world should be and the way it is. 

In Thailand that gap is quite large for our Western way of thought.

But the Thais are overall happy with their system...it seems to work for them since they make little effort to change it. 

 

I like what you said about recognizing dangers of taxis with no seat belts. Obviously you have an awareness of things. Just an FYI but the taxis have typically tucked the seat belts under the rear seat and you can pull them free or they can do it. 

 

 

 

 

Not really, not those with whom I make regular contact... not my close Thai friends who I discuss many issues with....   What they are able to do is grudgingly accept life for the way it is and do their best to remain happy and get on with things, they are well aware that their complaints fall on deaf ears....  Why complain all the time if nothing will be done? this seems to be the general attitude. 

 

Taxi's - no seat-belts...    the newer ones do have seatbelts... but a number of times I've tried to 'dig my hand down the back' to pull up the 'stalk'... its not always possible...  I use UBER to avoid this issue when not driving and travelling without my son. 

 

A friend of mine owns one of the taxi companies in Bangkok - He understands my complaint about 'no seatbelts' but also admits 'Thai Culture' doesn't expect him do anything about it, so he doesn't !!!!!...  

 

 

I do agree with your comment 'there is a gap between the way the World should be and the way it is'... this is one of those issues which could be improved and will be eventually given time and a shift in the safety culture...

 

Previous 'culling' drives are an example that those in positions to do so have recognised an issue and have attempted to do something about it, albeit a half measure, nonetheless, it's evidence that Thai's also recognise the issue. 

 

Given sufficient headlines and public opinion we may yet see another 'crack down'... this time a 'crack down' against Soi Dogs' !!... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Moonmoon]

true that ppl should stop feeding the soi dogs, i have paid out with my own pockets to have the strays around my shop neutered and spayed, its not just doing that alone will help. Many Thais r not educated about neutering and spaying their dogs. I have seen many times my Thai friends get a puppy. Then after a few months when the puppy grows into adulthood they decide that the Dog needs a companion, so they go out n get a female or male puppy for it and when it grows up they will naturally mate. Then the female dog gets pregnant and have a litter of babies. mind you Dogs have anywhere from 5 to 12 puppies. So Are these owners able to take care of each and every dog? no... they give them away. if the puppies r lucky to meet good owners they will be taken care of and if not they will be discarded and become soi Dogs. And the whole cycle begins again for the new owner of the puppies, get a companion when it grows up yada yada... 

 

its a vicious cycle. Unless the government agencies go full force and clear up the streets and starts educating their citizens to neuter and spay their dogs, the Dog population will keep growing and the problem will always be there.

 

I am a dog lover and in this age of internet there is no excuse not to read up and research what to do and be a responsible dog or pet owner.

 

if anyone wants a vet to neutered or spayed your dog for 500 baht kindly pm me. this government vet who provides a cheap service is in Samut Prakan. Thepparak Road. He is in a rundown back soi kinda place but he is very experienced.

[ClutchClark]

My computer is working slow but do a google search of "fog meat thailand".

 

thai don't do things to improve their country unless there is a financial incentive. (Look at the trash problwm).

 

your friends that ar eunhappy with the way things are also appear to be fairly well off if one owns a taxi company and yet he is satisfied to just complain. 

 

Ther are soi dog foundations working in Thailand and they are in continual need of donations so if this soi dog population really bothers you guys then pony up  ;-)

[seahorse]

On 8/26/2016 at 9:27 AM, Jimdbim said:

I see , so it's also dogs fault for a retarded driver who is incapable of driving ?

 

whats next? Dogs fault for running the red light? Driving drunk? 

 

May be a tree is to blame for being there when another retard smashes into it?

 

Have you ever ridden a motorbike past soi dogs, Jimbdim?

[daveAustin]

My boy got attacked as a toddler. I would have killed it on the spot had I been there. It isn't anymore, but if anything screams third world it is mangy dogs on streets. Disappointed in Phrayut for not sorting this problem out. I initially thought the bloke was switched on and had a pair of stones... instead he gives them protection status.

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, seahorse said:

 

Have you ever ridden a motorbike past soi dogs, Jimbdim?

 

They can sense your fear ;-)