How safe/risky is money in the bank, 800k CD, etc.

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

My statement still stands. If you are comfortable with what you read in the link then by all means trust the local banking system. 

 

Perhaps I misused a word :correction" in a previous reply.

 

I am not suggesting that for one minute I would trust a bank in Thailand or assume that it would automatically refund me my money under a fraud situation.

 

Like you said, banks cannot be trusted, but in most western countries, they will refund you, Thailand is iffy in everything, not knocking Thailand, just stating my findings. 

[Strange]

Just now, 4MyEgo said:

Perhaps I misused a word :correction" in a previous reply.

 

I am not suggesting that for one minute I would trust a bank in Thailand or assume that it would automatically refund me my money under a fraud situation.

 

Like you said, banks cannot be trusted, but in most western countries, they will refund you, Thailand is iffy in everything, not knocking Thailand, just stating my findings. 

 

Thats cool, just quit trying to refute a point thats impossible. 

 

Banks cannot be trusted and are not out to help you in any way. There are however very simple ways to protect yourself AND save money. They cost you nothing and hardly take any more time/legwork than strictly banking in Thailand. 

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Thats cool, just quit trying to refute a point thats impossible. 

 

Banks cannot be trusted and are not out to help you in any way. There are however very simple ways to protect yourself AND save money. They cost you nothing and hardly take any more time/legwork than strictly banking in Thailand. 

 

Agreed, they are a safe haven for my money back Oz as the government gauruantees it up to $250,000 per deposit, per bank, so if your fortunate enough, spread the $'s.

[williamgeorgeallen]

29 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I paid 200 baht for the letter at SCB Bank, and wasn't happy about that...lol

yes but you probably actually had the funds in the bank.

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

yes but you probably actually had the funds in the bank.

 

Yes I did, sorry about that, I caught the end of the post replies at the bottom of the page without reading the previous page.

Edited September 16, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[williamgeorgeallen]

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Yes I did, sorry about that, I caught the end of the post replies at the bottom of the page without reading the previous page, 10,000 for what I would call an illegal letter.

better reword your post. the army is listening.

[ammagic]

Not as safe as you might think. Transferred a large amount from a bank a/c in CM in a very well known bank to. Hua Hin as last year they refused me a bank letter for immigration unless I did this. Imagine my shock this year when I showed up with my orange bank book with said amount at Hua Hin branch for this year's letter for immigration. Oh they said, you must have closed that a/c - no money in it. Almost fell off the chair. After much wrangling, file checking & anxiety - oops - a bank error!!! Very unnerving!

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, KhunBENQ said:

Also called forgery of documents for a  bribe.

Get caught and be kicked out.

 

I simply don't understand which immigration office accepts such a forged letter without an accompanying bank book.

it is pretty common. i am 42 so i have not tried it. never heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. in thailand almost anything goes as long as everyone is greased properly. dont think it counts as forgery as it is a genuine document from a bank official also i believe funds are actually deposited in the account at he time the document is signed.

[KhunBENQ]

48 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I paid 200 baht for the letter at SCB Bank, and wasn't happy about that...lol

"Special letters" cost a bit more.

100 Baht at Bangkok Bank BTW.

[GOLDBUGGY]

13 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I don't think you have a choice ?

 

I deposited that amount when I came her in November 2015 before going to immigration for my retirement visa in February after the 90 day tourist visa was expiring.

 

I draw down the account as living expenses and will top it up when I reach half way, which is about now, its pointless IMO having it in a CD, or term deposit account (same thing), because as you say, rates are low, especially for this amount of money.

 

Personally I wouldn't worry to much if the banks went belly up, as some others have posted, they have guarantees in place, but this is Thailand don't forget, so have the attitude, only put in or invest as much as your prepared to lose and you should be fine. 

Personally I couldn't be bother bouncing money around that I need for a Visa to make a few extra Baht on Savings. It is difficult enough to keep tabs on the 90 day Report and Visa Extensions lets alone gambling on remember the extra dates I need to have this money in the bank.  

[akentryan]

20 hours ago, natway09 said:

For savings in Thailand stick to the big 5 banks.They went through the 1997 debacle with only a scratch.

I had money with 3 of them

Your money up to 1mil per account is possibly as safe as any bank in the world.

 

I would also add that a couple of the brokerage houses that crashed in 97-98 emerged as banks. I worked for one and would avoid it and the others like the plague. Have banked successfully with UOB. Krung Thai, Bangkok Bank, and Kasikorn over the years. Have given up on SCB as their rates are always the lowest around.

[chiang mai]

18 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

http://www.cimbthai.com/CIMB/en/about_us/

 

I hadn't realized CIMB was borne that way, I concede you are correct.

[jippytum]

Your money is safe in Thai Banks .During the financial crises some small savings banks and Lehman bros in the US went bust. Santander has just failed a stress test in Europe .

I had money deposited in Thailand  banks and did not lose one baht during that period . However the Stock market was a rough ride .

Where else are you going to keep your money in Thailand .....under the mattress !!!!

[KittenKong]

21 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

"I would not be all surprised if they retroactively excluded farangs from the guarantee"

Based on what?

There are real things worth worrying about. No need to start imagining things that have no basis other than your jaundiced view of Thailand.

 

Based on nothing. I wasn't saying that they would do it, just that it would not surprise me if they did. There are other things that happen daily in Thailand that would never happen in many other countries (or which would topple governments if they did happen). Do they surprise me? No, they dont.

[KittenKong]

20 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Correction, see the link below where Kasikorn Bank refunded a customer almost a million baht, under protest of course, just for the records.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/kasikornbank-agrees-to-refund-a-customer-who-was-robbed-from-his-bank-account/

 

I personally know two different people who lost money in Thai banks due to fraud. The amounts were substantial (more than 6 figures). They were not refunded in spite of going to court at their expense.

 

In the UK in the same circumstances they would have been refunded instantly (in fact the fraud probably could never even have happened in the UK). So I am quite happy to have a couple of million Baht here, which I would spread around several banks, but there is no way on earth I would have more than a few percent of my total worth here including my condo and car. Not least because if you dont have a Thai passport then you are living here on borrowed time and could be ejected on a whim instantly. This is very different to the situation in Europe, for example.

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

I personally know two different people who lost money in Thai banks due to fraud. The amounts were substantial (more than 6 figures). They were not refunded in spite of going to court at their expense.

 

In the UK in the same circumstances they would have been refunded instantly (in fact the fraud probably could never even have happened in the UK). So I am quite happy to have a couple of million Baht here, which I would spread around several banks, but there is no way on earth I would have more than a few percent of my total worth here including my condo and car. Not least because if you dont have a Thai passport then you are living here on borrowed time and could be ejected on a whim instantly. This is very different to the situation in Europe, for example.

 

I'm with you, no more than a mil at a time

 

[peeba7]

Some valuable responses here, thank you.

I am very curious how people get their money stolen out of their accounts.  I see in the article that the victim gave out his account number and other details.  But who the heck ever gives out their pin to anyone??? ('Then he asked for the PIN number from the victim')  It might have helped that he was Thai to get his money back. I have also heard that it is pretty easy to get your info and remove your cash, how scared should we be and how to best protest our deposits besides moving the money back and forth, in and out?

"Rejected on a whim easily" probably true but how common is that if you play it legal and safe? Though I agree they can change and bend the rules at any time.  

It almost seems like a set-up to have us deposit the money here.  Of course you can go to the embassy and get a letter stating you have 65K+ income a month, I understand there is no checking this at the US embassy but that was a while ago, is it still true that you simply state your monthly income and they accept that?  This might be one of the best options. 

 

[icare999]

On 16 September 2016 at 9:53 AM, williamgeorgeallen said:

you do have a choice. when i am over 50 i will go onto a retirement visa and use an agent who can get a letter to say i have the funds without having them in thailand. they normally charge 10 000thb for the document. after 10 years i will never keep any money or assets in thailand again. there is no need. just use a foreign ATM card to with draw 30 000thb at a time for living expenses. follow this method and you are less likely to have any problems in thailand. rent rent rent. been said so many times, needs to be repeated non stop for those new to this country..

how many times have i  heard that nonsense in last 30 years and all along our investments here have far outgrown anything we had/have in USA. Weve paid for our home several times over and while property here does not go up and down like USA apart from 1997 crash its woth many times what we paid for it and what weve put into it. Following your advise wed now be much poorer but you keep telling people and yes ive been married to a Thai for 30 odd years. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

5 hours ago, icare999 said:

how many times have i  heard that nonsense in last 30 years and all along our investments here have far outgrown anything we had/have in USA. Weve paid for our home several times over and while property here does not go up and down like USA apart from 1997 crash its woth many times what we paid for it and what weve put into it. Following your advise wed now be much poorer but you keep telling people and yes ive been married to a Thai for 30 odd years. 

well i want to congratulate you. you have done well. i have not been in thailand so long, only 10 years. the majority of people i know who bought money to invest have lost part or all of it trying to open a business or investing in property. those who got married did worse than those who didnt. almost every single one of my friends who rents condos or works offshore are very happy with their life. this is what i have seen. there are a couple of exceptions however they are rare.

[chiang mai]

19 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

well i want to congratulate you. you have done well. i have not been in thailand so long, only 10 years. the majority of people i know who bought money to invest have lost part or all of it trying to open a business or investing in property. those who got married did worse than those who didnt. almost every single one of my friends who rents condos or works offshore are very happy with their life. this is what i have seen. there are a couple of exceptions however they are rare.

 

It's so much nonsense, I get tired of reading these same pathetic reasons time and time again, they are simply wrong and most have not really thought about it even a little bit!

Loads of expats here buy property safely and many make a profit either on the sale itself or from the forex component of the purchase; loads of expats here have stable and loving marriages that endure; loads of expats here keep fairly large amounts of money in banks in Thailand without any problems whatsoever; loads of expats here open and run successful and viable businesses. Part of the problem is that we only ever hear about the horror story failures rather than the quiet successes.

 

The expats who loose money as a result of the above are the same ones who would loose money on them back home, were it not for more stringent consumer laws and protection. they are the ones who don't do their homework regarding property ownership and purchase, sign documents they don't understand, try to circumvent ownership laws by using proxies etc, marry poorly (the first bar girl they meet) and in haste, are careless or guidable with their personal banking details and those who should never try and open a business anywhere because they don't have the basic skills. Mostly however, those people who advocate not bringing money into Thailand because it's not safe are the people who don't have any to bring in and who should never have left the safety and comfort of their own country.

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

It's so much nonsense, I get tired of reading these same pathetic reasons time and time again, they are simply wrong and most have not really thought about it even a little bit!

Loads of expats here buy property safely and many make a profit either on the sale itself or from the forex component of the purchase; loads of expats here have stable and loving marriages that endure; loads of expats here keep fairly large amounts of money in banks in Thailand without any problems whatsoever; loads of expats here open and run successful and viable businesses. Part of the problem is that we only ever hear about the horror story failures rather than the quiet successes.

 

The expats who loose money as a result of the above are the same ones who would loose money on them back home, were it not for more stringent consumer laws and protection. they are the ones who don't do their homework regarding property ownership and purchase, sign documents they don't understand, try to circumvent ownership laws by using proxies etc, marry poorly (the first bar girl they meet) and in haste, are careless or guidable with their personal banking details and those who should never try and open a business anywhere because they don't have the basic skills. Mostly however, those people who advocate not bringing money into Thailand because it's not safe are the people who don't have any to bring in and who should never have left the safety and comfort of their own country.

like i said, i was just reporting what i have seen over the last 10 years. one point i want to make is that property in thailand is generally not a good option for investment. either is america of course with the high risk boom burst cycle they now have in place. property appreciation is very slow in thailand. ownership is restricted to condos which have many problems associated with them. you have been successful and thats great but you are more of an exception than the norm.

[chiang mai]

19 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

like i said, i was just reporting what i have seen over the last 10 years. one point i want to make is that property in thailand is generally not a good option for investment. either is america of course with the high risk boom burst cycle they now have in place. property appreciation is very slow in thailand. ownership is restricted to condos which have many problems associated with them. you have been successful and thats great but you are more of an exception than the norm.

 

What we've seen over that period are very different things and luck hasn't played much of a role.

 

Property ownership is not restricted to just condo's, property can be effectively owned through a limited company, an usufruct or a long lease, all can be made safe and all can provide investment returns, IF done properly and legally.

 

And property appreciation does not have to be slow, if you know what you're doing and understand your location and the economy, buy right etc etc, buying a bog standard box in any old moo bahn will not do much for you.

 

There is a direct link between property as an investment and forex, the latter providing a second string to your bow which can reduce risk. Time your purchase right when the exchange rates are favorable and the uptick on currency exchange rates come sale time can be considerable, do it properly and you can make a profit on the property value, a profit on the foreign exchange plus live rent free for however long..

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

What we've seen over that period are very different things and luck hasn't played much of a role.

 

Property ownership is not restricted to just condo's, property can be effectively owned through a limited company, an usufruct or a long lease, all can be made safe and all can provide investment returns, IF done properly and legally.

 

And property appreciation does not have to be slow, if you know what you're doing and understand your location and the economy, buy right etc etc, buying a bog standard box in any old moo bahn will not do much for you.

 

There is a direct link between property as an investment and forex, the latter providing a second string to your bow which can reduce risk. Time your purchase right when the exchange rates are favorable and the uptick on currency exchange rates come sale time can be considerable, do it properly and you can make a profit on the property value, a profit on the foreign exchange plus live rent free for however long..

we are getting a bit off topic here. my point is that money is generally better invested in western countries than in thailand. in my case i have done very well in australia and new zealand. i have managed to retire after only  working and investing over the period of 20 years in nz and oz. i have basically broken even (probably lost if you factor inflation) in my thailand investments. i am one of the more successful guys i know just breaking even here.

[peeba7]

A bit more on topic:  someone mentioned SCB giving the lowest interest rates (on fixed account?) , another mentioned UOB as being a safer bet, someone posted rates, so at the risk of repeating, who has the BEST rates? and is UOB the safest bet, should I move the money out of SCB and into UOB?  I certainly find the banking practices here, at SCB and others, somewhat 'shady' or completely unacceptable for  western standards, might one fair better with a Singaporean based bank such as UOB (if I read everything correctly?) 

[chiang mai]

11 minutes ago, peeba7 said:

A bit more on topic:  someone mentioned SCB giving the lowest interest rates (on fixed account?) , another mentioned UOB as being a safer bet, someone posted rates, so at the risk of repeating, who has the BEST rates? and is UOB the safest bet, should I move the money out of SCB and into UOB?  I certainly find the banking practices here, at SCB and others, somewhat 'shady' or completely unacceptable for  western standards, might one fair better with a Singaporean based bank such as UOB (if I read everything correctly?) 

 

There's a pinned topic in the Finance Section called bank/savings  interest rates that will answer those questions.

[peeba7]

More accurate questions: How much more risky are these fixed deposits with higher rates than savings?  What exactly are the risks because I am under the impression it is an investment vehicle for the bank, they put that money elsewhere, perhaps even in other countries (one bank employee mentioned Korea one year when renewing the account.) The contract I sign is in Thai (mai cowjai) and sometimes I was not even given a contract.  Thanks!

[peeba7]

It would also be much more helpful if one can waive the tax withholding on these things as it would save us the hassle of getting that money back!  How or where can this be done please?  Maybe if i talked to the right person, or changed banks to one which will do this no problem.  I also realize that opening a new bank account is not so easy in Pattaya these days. So changing banks with a better rate might not be such a viable option. Input?

Edited October 21, 2016 by peeba7

[Bulldozer Dawn]

These last few extensions I just leave the 800K in the bank for the required 3 months.  As soon as I have my extension stamp the money gets moved to my brokerage account.  I use the money to trade the Thai market and make a good deal more than annual bank interest.  Below is a link to a couple of trading strategies that should prove very useful in the months ahead:

 

How To Short Sell Thai Shares

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, peeba7 said:

More accurate questions: How much more risky are these fixed deposits with higher rates than savings?  What exactly are the risks because I am under the impression it is an investment vehicle for the bank, they put that money elsewhere, perhaps even in other countries (one bank employee mentioned Korea one year when renewing the account.) The contract I sign is in Thai (mai cowjai) and sometimes I was not even given a contract.  Thanks!

 

There is almost zero risk with any kind of savings account, fixed or floating rate, instant or fixed date - all have to be immediately available to the customer ob demand, even fixed rate/fixed term.

 

As for the part about Korea, the employee was blowing hot air, that's all - banks here are restricted by the central bank, just as all banks in the west are.

[peeba7]

SCB 9 months fixed deposit at 1.5 per year promotion, 1 year pays 1.4%, go figure. TIT!  If you let days or weeks slip by before you renew, you lose money (interest)  but for once they actually compounded the interest instead of putting in another account (savings, ridiculousness.)   I asked about dormant accounts as I have been told by farang that after one year of inactivity you can lose all your money.  She assured me the account simply remains dormant until you reappear or reactivate it unless the account holds less than 2000 baht.  I honestly don't know what to believe (what if you die?) but suggest you try to find the agent with the best English and the most experience. 

 

My small rants: why do you have to charge a yearly ATM when clearly the ATM's save the bank money by not having to pay labor.  Also 2nd rant, if I have a question they cant or don't want to answer they tell me to go to my home branch.  Total crap!  The trick (in Thailand)  is the learn how not to take no for an answer in the best possible way or constantly offer alternatives until you get a yes .  It saved me a long unwelcome trip and the questions were so easy to answer for them. 

 

Best of luck all and feel free to post how you make this money best work for you, not you for it, or any other tips or tricks or important info, thanks.