May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[pitrevie]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've deleted the rest of your post as I've addressed those points earlier, and the 'conversation' seems to have moved on to "little brown people" as first mentioned in your post.

 

You're convinced that leave voters were worried about the above, whereas I'm convinced that they were more concerned about immigration from poorer EU countries as a result of 'open borders' - allowing employers to keep wages (for those at the bottom - then reflected to those on ordinary salaries) very low.

 

They're obviously also v concerned about Moslem immigrants - regardless of whether they come from EU countries/relatives of those already in the UK/'refugees'.

 

"Little brown people" didn't come into this referendum vote as far as I know - its just your interpretation of the result that prefers to believe that people who voted leave had this derogatory nonsense in their mind.

Polls since the vote have indicated that immigration was the No 1 concern. The poster from Farage even made Gove shudder which must be a first and was deliberately constructed to show masses of Brown people wanting to enter the UK whereas the EU issue was about the free movement of people within the EU.

We always have had 100% control of people entering the UK from outside the EU. If what you say was true then why didn't that poster reflect those coming from the poorer EU countries and not what Farage intended all along.

[dick dasterdly]

32 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've deleted the rest of your post as I've addressed those points earlier, and the 'conversation' seems to have moved on to "little brown people" as first mentioned in your post.

 

You're convinced that leave voters were worried about the above, whereas I'm convinced that they were more concerned about immigration from poorer EU countries as a result of 'open borders' - allowing employers to keep wages (for those at the bottom - then reflected to those on ordinary salaries) very low.

 

They're obviously also v concerned about Moslem immigrants - regardless of whether they come from EU countries/relatives of those already in the UK/'refugees'.

 

"Little brown people" didn't come into this referendum vote as far as I know - its just your interpretation of the result that prefers to believe that people who voted leave had this derogatory nonsense in their mind.

 

17 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Polls since the vote have indicated that immigration was the No 1 concern. The poster from Farage even made Gove shudder which must be a first and was deliberately constructed to show masses of Brown people wanting to enter the UK whereas the EU issue was about the free movement of people within the EU.

We always have had 100% control of people entering the UK from outside the EU. If what you say was true then why didn't that poster reflect those coming from the poorer EU countries and not what Farage intended all along.

As my post pointed out - yes, its likely immigration was the main concern.  EU immigration from poorer countries keeping wages for those at the bottom in the UK (and consequently those in the middle) v low.

 

Not sure why you keep trying to turn this into "little brown people"?  Something first mentioned by you....

Edited March 28, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Khun Han]

35 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've deleted the rest of your post as I've addressed those points earlier, and the 'conversation' seems to have moved on to "little brown people" as first mentioned in your post.

 

You're convinced that leave voters were worried about the above, whereas I'm convinced that they were more concerned about immigration from poorer EU countries as a result of 'open borders' - allowing employers to keep wages (for those at the bottom - then reflected to those on ordinary salaries) very low.

 

They're obviously also v concerned about Moslem immigrants - regardless of whether they come from EU countries/relatives of those already in the UK/'refugees'.

 

"Little brown people" didn't come into this referendum vote as far as I know - its just your interpretation of the result that prefers to believe that people who voted leave had this derogatory nonsense in their mind.

 

You're wasting your time Dick. He has plenty of intelligence but zero intellectual honesty. It's purely about 'winning' every little sub-debate for him, and he has an endless supply of highly selective factoids at hand to 'prove' that he is 'right' about everything under the sun. Best place for him is the ignore list.

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Not sure why you keep trying to turn this into "little brown people"?  Something first mentioned by you....

 

See my above post Dick.

[Khun Han]

Worth a read:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39407039

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, shanesox said:

You got Farron Clegg and liberal Undemocrats ...ooops


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Sorry, why are they undemocratic?

 

Care to explain?

[pitrevie]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're wasting your time Dick. He has plenty of intelligence but zero intellectual honesty. It's purely about 'winning' every little sub-debate for him, and he has an endless supply of highly selective factoids at hand to 'prove' that he is 'right' about everything under the sun. Best place for him is the ignore list.

Wow the man who is ignoring me but still posts his reply.

 

Just to remind anyone since he constantly uses this "intellectual dishonesty label"

 

Khun Han earned himself a suspension as a result of accusing me of being someone who I am not and revealing that identity along with accusing me of banning him from some twitter account that I have never had and then trying to connect me to some guy called Andrew who I have never heard of who apparently writes books about kings.

 

Then he uses the same criticism about another of my replies and it was easy to show that he had never even read the posts in questions as I was able to show relatively easily that both links he was referring in the OP  were bogus.

 

When you ask for evidence to support his ridiculous assertions you are told you are being facetious or engaging in debating tricks. Yep that is the level of discourse he comes up with.

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're wasting your time Dick. He has plenty of intelligence but zero intellectual honesty. It's purely about 'winning' every little sub-debate for him, and he has an endless supply of highly selective factoids at hand to 'prove' that he is 'right' about everything under the sun. Best place for him is the ignore list.

Agree - but can't see the point on putting anyone on an ignore list.

[pitrevie]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

As my post pointed out - yes, its likely immigration was the main concern.  EU immigration from poorer countries keeping wages for those at the bottom in the UK (and consequently those in the middle) v low.

 

Not sure why you keep trying to turn this into "little brown people"?  Something first mentioned by you....

I am not sure whether you have even looked at the poster but it was clearly nothing to do with immigrants coming from within the EU but refugees from without. It was condemned by all the leaders of the Brexit and Remain campaigns.

As I have pointed out repeatedly the UK has 100% control on immigration from outside the EU. In other words we didn't have to accept even one person on that poster it was bogus but that is what Farage intended. 

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Wow the man who is ignoring me but still posts his reply.

 

Just to remind anyone since he constantly uses this "intellectual dishonesty label"

 

Khun Han earned himself a suspension as a result of accusing me of being someone who I am not and revealing that identity along with accusing me of banning him from some twitter account that I have never had and then trying to connect me to some guy called Andrew who I have never heard of who apparently writes books about kings.

 

Then he uses the same criticism about another of my replies and it was easy to show that he had never even read the posts in questions as I was able to show relatively easily that both links he was referring in the OP  were bogus.

 

When you ask for evidence to support his ridiculous assertions you are told you are being facetious or engaging in debating tricks. Yep that is the level of discourse he comes up with.

Intellectual dishonesty is trying to pin the blame on brexit voters voting against "little brown people"....

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree - but can't see the point on putting anyone on an ignore list.

 

Depends how quickly you get bored with correcting deliberate half-truths and misinterpretations. Or, in the case of another remain poster, having every debate end up with him stumped and coming out with one of his 'killer' lines such as 'look, I don't have any crayons at hand at the moment to explain it to you.' It's groundhog day, and it becomes tiresome.

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Intellectual dishonesty is trying to pin the blame on brexit voters voting against "little brown people"....

Who did that read the post again. I said that was the intention of that poster that Farage put up.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, pitrevie said:

I am not sure whether you have even looked at the poster but it was clearly nothing to do with immigrants coming from within the EU but refugees from without. It was condemned by all the leaders of the Brexit and Remain campaigns.

As I have pointed out repeatedly the UK has 100% control on immigration from outside the EU. In other words we didn't have to accept even one person on that poster it was bogus but that is what Farage intended. 

And you persist - insisting that the brexit vote was a result of people voting against (in your words) "little brown people"!

 

I'm bored with pointing this out, and so will give this up as a pointless exercise.

[pitrevie]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Depends how quickly you get bored with correcting deliberate half-truths and misinterpretations. Or, in the case of another remain poster, having every debate end up with him stumped and coming out with one of his 'killer' lines such as 'look, I don't have any crayons at hand at the moment to explain it to you.' It's groundhog day, and it becomes tiresome.

I think I will let my previous post stand as to your attempts at smearing people and misrepresenting them on this forum. It earned you a suspension.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

A bit like govt. ministers thinking that Osborne's promised emergency budget in the event of a brexit vote would frighten people into voting remain...   I suspect this back-fired badly and resulted in quite a few voters realising that the entire remain campaign was based on fear tactics?

 

Perhaps they'd have been better off concentrating on the positives of remaining within the EU?  Although thinking about it, it would have been political suicide to point out that the EU has promoted more policies to help the 'ordinary' worker than UK governments!

Osborne was FORECASTING what was likely to happen immediately we confirmed we were withdrawing. It now seems, this was pessimistic though official notice has still not been given 9 months later. Carney jumped in with huge stabilisation measures. However, the pound has collapsed and inflation is hitting now.

 

On the other side, Turkey joining the EU was an actual LIE. Everyone knew, including Boris, that Turkey was being kept on side but there was no chance of them getting in. Those posters showing queues of immigrants was part of the same lie package. How many refugees have we allowed in?

 

Balance please!

 

New balls!

[pitrevie]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And you persist - insisting that the brexit vote was a result of people voting against (in your words) "little brown people"!

 

I'm bored with pointing this out, and so will give this up as a pointless exercise.

Well when you can show me where I said people voting against little brown people, I note that you have only put the phrase  "little brown people" in quotations.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Intellectual dishonesty is trying to pin the blame on brexit voters voting against "little brown people"....

Correct. And an absolutely typical tactic of the poster you have quoted. I'll accept his protestations that he's not that sneaky, dishonest little so-and-so Andrew Macgregor Marshall. But his writing 'personality' and political views indicate that they might as well have been twins, separated at birth .

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Depends how quickly you get bored with correcting deliberate half-truths and misinterpretations. Or, in the case of another remain poster, having every debate end up with him stumped and coming out with one of his 'killer' lines such as 'look, I don't have any crayons at hand at the moment to explain it to you.' It's groundhog day, and it becomes tiresome.

Agree entirely about "groundhog day"....

 

Nobody is about to change their opinion at the moment, but its still interesting (mostly...) to read opinions from others.  Although I could do without the arrogance and insults against those with a different opinion .

[AlexRich]

24 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Wow the man who is ignoring me but still posts his reply.

 

Just to remind anyone since he constantly uses this "intellectual dishonesty label"

 

Khun Han earned himself a suspension as a result of accusing me of being someone who I am not and revealing that identity along with accusing me of banning him from some twitter account that I have never had and then trying to connect me to some guy called Andrew who I have never heard of who apparently writes books about kings.

 

Then he uses the same criticism about another of my replies and it was easy to show that he had never even read the posts in questions as I was able to show relatively easily that both links he was referring in the OP  were bogus.

 

When you ask for evidence to support his ridiculous assertions you are told you are being facetious or engaging in debating tricks. Yep that is the level of discourse he comes up with.

 

LOL ... absolutely, he's got form ... being on his ignore list is something that should be worn like a badge of honour. When the debate gets too tough, he gets going ... builds himself a 'straw man' and retreats to his fictional moral high ground like a scolded baby. 

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by AlexRich

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Osborne was FORECASTING what was likely to happen immediately we confirmed we were withdrawing. It now seems, this was pessimistic though official notice has still not been given 9 months later. Carney jumped in with huge stabilisation measures. However, the pound has collapsed and inflation is hitting now.

 

On the other side, Turkey joining the EU was an actual LIE. Everyone knew, including Boris, that Turkey was being kept on side but there was no chance of them getting in. Those posters showing queues of immigrants was part of the same lie package. How many refugees have we allowed in?

 

Balance please!

 

New balls!

"Osborne was FORECASTING what was likely to happen immediately we confirmed we were withdrawing."

 

Quite, although I'd amend that to Osborne and the govt. ministers.

 

They were proven liars and the 'forecast' has subsequently been proven to be part of "Project Fear".

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Correct. And an absolutely typical tactic of the poster you have quoted. I'll accept his protestations that he's not that sneaky, dishonest little so-and-so Andrew Macgregor Marshall. But his writing 'personality' and political views indicate that they might as well have been twins, separated at birth .

Ah the first time you have had the honesty to admit that. Now perhaps you will also apologise for accusing me of banning you from some twitter account which I have never had in my life. By the way who the hell is Andrew Macgregor Marshall that you have a bee in your bonnet about.

[Basil B]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

though official notice has still not been given 9 months later. Carney jumped in with huge stabilisation measures. However, the pound has collapsed and inflation is hitting now.

We know that is happening tomorrow... further more I predicted it was likely to happen end of March/beginning of April straight after the referendum result was announced, makes sense, the government needed time to appoint negotiators and prioritise the aims of the negotiators but we can not delay it past this time as our MEP's term of office expires in 2 years, and we do not want to be electing MEP's for a short teenier or be a member without representation in the European Parliament.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Basil B

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, pitrevie said:

Ah the first time you have had the honesty to admit that. Now perhaps you will also apologise for accusing me of banning you from some twitter account which I have never had in my life. By the way who the hell is Andrew Macgregor Marshall that you have a bee in your bonnet about.

 

Andrew McGregor Marshall used to take his dinner money off him in the school playground! 

[pitrevie]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

LOL ... absolutely, he's got form ... being on his ignore list is something that should be worn like a badge of honour. When the debate gets too tough, he gets going ... builds himself a 'straw man' and retreats to the moral high ground like a scolded baby. 

 

You are quite right being accused by Khun Han of intellectual dishonesty is so much of a joke it should be transferred to the joke section. When you ask him for evidence he calls that a debating trick, god only knows where that logic comes from.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Osborne was FORECASTING what was likely to happen immediately we confirmed we were withdrawing."

 

Quite, although I'd amend that to Osborne and the govt. ministers.

 

They were proven liars and the 'forecast' has subsequently been proven to be part of "Project Fear".

Why do you insist on calling them liars? The FORECAST was overly negative but not a lie. Do you really not understand the point? Was Michael Fish a liar also?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, pitrevie said:

You are quite right being accused by Khun Han of intellectual dishonesty is so much of a joke it should be transferred to the joke section. When you ask him for evidence he calls that a debating trick, god only knows where that logic comes from.

Which brings us back nicely to the debating trick of insisting that those who voted brexit were voting against "little brown people'/Osborne was only forecasting (with his promised punishment budget) the result of a brexit win, rather than ratcheting up "Project Fear"/those who voted brexit were "numpties".

 

I can't be the only one who is sick and tired of these "debating tricks"!

[evadgib]

Fortunately the school run has prevented me trotting a minnow under a few chins this afternoon. I might take up night fishing later if these bites keep up 

[dick dasterdly]

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Osborne was FORECASTING what was likely to happen immediately we confirmed we were withdrawing. It now seems, this was pessimistic though official notice has still not been given 9 months later. Carney jumped in with huge stabilisation measures. However, the pound has collapsed and inflation is hitting now.

 

On the other side, Turkey joining the EU was an actual LIE. Everyone knew, including Boris, that Turkey was being kept on side but there was no chance of them getting in. Those posters showing queues of immigrants was part of the same lie package. How many refugees have we allowed in?

 

Balance please!

 

New balls!

 

22 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Osborne was FORECASTING what was likely to happen immediately we confirmed we were withdrawing."

 

Quite, although I'd amend that to Osborne and the govt. ministers.

 

They were proven liars and the 'forecast' has subsequently been proven to be part of "Project Fear".

 

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Why do you insist on calling them liars? The FORECAST was overly negative but not a lie. Do you really not understand the point? Was Michael Fish a liar also?

So far, Osborne (and the ministers) promise of a punishment budget has been proven to be a lie.

 

No idea (roll eyes) why you are trying to compare an outright lie to Michael Fish's incorrect forecast.  There's a HUGE difference between predicting the weather and telling the voters that the 'wrong' vote would result in a punishment budget!  Which of course, was subsequently proven to be a lie edit - and just part of "Project Fear".

Edited March 28, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Flustered]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

 

There is endless entertainment to be gained from reading forum Brexiteers repetitively setting up Aunt Sallies and then knocking them down.

As well as endless entertainment from FMs who make no useful contributions to the threads.

[billd766]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Which brings us back nicely to the debating trick of insisting that those who voted brexit were voting against "little brown people'/Osborne was only forecasting (with his promised punishment budget) the result of a brexit win, rather than ratcheting up "Project Fear"/those who voted brexit were "numpties".

 

I can't be the only one who is sick and tired of these "debating tricks"!

You are not but I get so bored with the endless repetition of the same thing that quite a few people go on my ignore list. I only see what they post if someone else replies to them. Even then most of their replies are copy and past from what they have posted 20 or 30 times before.

When that tactic fails they just insult people. These by they way are the reputedly more intelligent (their own words) than ANYONE who voted for Brexit. Quite a few of them read the Guardian  which as everybody knows is an intellectual newspaper and is so popular that if you click on a link the Guardian begs you to support them by taking out a subscription.

 

According to Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation

 

the average circulation for the Guardian in January 2017 was 156,576 compared to 302,285 in 2010. In fact the circulation is decreasing year on year.

 

I sometimes wonder if such an interesting and intellectual newspaper can survive.