May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

Look at it. How many interpretations of that are there?

 

No boiled eggs, hard or soft mentioned. Cameron, not May was PM at the time.

 

I didn't see any complaints about this until after the result, as with everything else.

Exactly - so just leaving the EU should be good enough for everyone. Single markets and customs unions do not come into it.

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Unfortunately he can't afford the fare to London.

I can go where I want, when i want ty.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Exactly - so just leaving the EU should be good enough for everyone. Single markets and customs unions do not come into it.

Like I said - I didn't see any complaints about this until after the result, as with everything else.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

germany does not allow dual citizenship except for persons born after jan1, 1979 with at least one parent a German citizen.

I wouldn't know, just what was said in the article I referred to.

Would appear that neither those taking part in the survey or those conducting it had done their homework.

[nauseus]

21 minutes ago, Basil B said:

But I bet you meet more that voted remain or did not vote...

More leavers thanks be. In London and the country.

[Basil B]

20 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

But I'm glad I meant met plenty of young men and women in the UK last year that voted out

 

22 minutes ago, Basil B said:

But I bet you meet more that voted remain or did not vote...

Unfortunately he can't afford the fare to London.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Like I said - I didn't see any complaints about this until after the result, as with everything else.

And when exactly did Teresa May determine how she would interpret those words on the ballot paper, before the result?

[sandyf]

And everyone that voted to leave understood exactly what would be involved.

 

Theresa May has taken the extremely unusual step of doubling the length of the next parliamentary session, in recognition of the volume and complexity of the Brexit related legislation that will have to pass through it to prepare the country for its exit from the European Union.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/queens-speech-last-2019-parliament-term-double-one-two-years-brexit-eu-negotiations-theresa-may-a7795386.html

[nontabury]

19 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I wouldn't know, just what was said in the article I referred to.

Would appear that neither those taking part in the survey or those conducting it had done their homework.

That's what happens SANDY, when you restrict your reading to biased publications.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

That's what happens SANDY, when you restrict your reading to biased publications.

Do not use my name like that, it amounts to a personal attack.

So in your opinion if an error is made in a survey, any entity reporting the survey is biased. Obviously you are entitled to your opinion and I must assume that you only ever refer to surveys that are error free.

The error does not detract from the fact that 89% were looking to dual citizenship post brexit, just that Germany may not be an option.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Naam said:

germany does not allow dual citizenship except for persons born after jan1, 1979 with at least one parent a German citizen.

 

52 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I wouldn't know, just what was said in the article I referred to.

Would appear that neither those taking part in the survey or those conducting it had done their homework.

Or the person relaying the information here. Everybody must do their homework or hold up hands.

Edited June 18, 2017 by SheungWan

[nauseus]

53 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And when exactly did Teresa May determine how she would interpret those words on the ballot paper, before the result?

Not much to interpret there is there? Probably on referendum day when she put her X by remain? 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

But I'm glad I meant met plenty of young men and women in the UK last year that voted out

 

Young men and women who are in the minority of the young, and in a minority of the young people who come after them. When the 2 million old brexiteers are dead by 2019, there won't be enough "young brexiteers" to stop the will of the people ... to stop this stupid Brexit policy. 

[mommysboy]

10 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Young men and women who are in the minority of the young, and in a minority of the young people who come after them. When the 2 million old brexiteers are dead by 2019, there won't be enough "young brexiteers" to stop the will of the people ... to stop this stupid Brexit policy. 

 

As a general rule, those who die will be replaced by new 'oldies' who will fill the boots of the departed.  This works on the principle that we tend to become more conservative/less radical the older we get.

 

The problem with our politics is that it is conflictual as opposed to consensual, and there is always a very large minority always disenfranchised.  The poster who champions PR is nearly there, but it's not merely a case of introducing a new voting system: it's about changing mindset.

 

I am more left wing than I realised.  In truth, it's not been a happy place to be over the last 30 years and more.  Yet although I am firmly entrenched in my orientations, I recognise and even support the needs of Conservative voters, particularly when it comes to issues such as the economy.

 

At a guess, I don't think there will be many, if any, right wing voters on this forum who would reciprocate.

 

 

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Young men and women who are in the minority of the young, and in a minority of the young people who come after them. When the 2 million old brexiteers are dead by 2019, there won't be enough "young brexiteers" to stop the will of the people ... to stop this stupid Brexit policy. 

Doctor Death again! The ultimate remedy to literally kill Brexit!

 

The kids who I referred to are the ones that actually understand the origins of the EEC/EC/EU and what it really is. They were able to show some intelligence and not stupidity (your word). They gave me a bit of hope for the future of the country. 

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Exactly - so just leaving the EU should be good enough for everyone. Single markets and customs unions do not come into it.

Remember a lot of those who voted Leave did so on the we can do the Norway thing...

 

Quote

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

 

Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

The piece, found here, is well worth reading but also falls victim to classic mansplaining of a complex issue with many words wasted on prose that most politicians would be proud of, working around the subject rather than delving in to the heart of it.

Of course, that’s for a very good reason, because at the heart of the vote to leave the European Union is an entanglement of lies and propagandist sensationalism that even the most brave souls wouldn’t dare admit to.

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

 

 

[Khun Han]

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

 

Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

The piece, found here, is well worth reading but also falls victim to classic mansplaining of a complex issue with many words wasted on prose that most politicians would be proud of, working around the subject rather than delving in to the heart of it.

Of course, that’s for a very good reason, because at the heart of the vote to leave the European Union is an entanglement of lies and propagandist sensationalism that even the most brave souls wouldn’t dare admit to.

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02

 

We've done the brexit campaign lies argument to death. Just for balance, no lie was worse than Osborne's threat to take £3000 per annum off every family in the country if we voted leave.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Exactly - so just leaving the EU should be good enough for everyone. Single markets and customs unions do not come into it.

Good management does!  I do not know anyone who thought for one moment that Brexit would be conducted with blithe disregard to the constitution and welfare of the nation.

[nauseus]

49 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

 

Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

The piece, found here, is well worth reading but also falls victim to classic mansplaining of a complex issue with many words wasted on prose that most politicians would be proud of, working around the subject rather than delving in to the heart of it.

Of course, that’s for a very good reason, because at the heart of the vote to leave the European Union is an entanglement of lies and propagandist sensationalism that even the most brave souls wouldn’t dare admit to.

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02

 

We've done the brexit campaign lies argument to death. Just for balance, no lie was worse than Osborne's threat to take £3000 per annum off every family in the country if we voted leave.

I think it was £4000!

[nauseus]

45 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Good management does!  I do not know anyone who thought for one moment that Brexit would be conducted with blithe disregard to the constitution and welfare of the nation.

The spirit of the British constitution is being honoured. The welfare of the nation is the responsibility of the government.

[rockingrobin]

3 hours ago, pitrevie said:

 

How about Europol? How many of those who voted are even aware of these organisations among many which the UK will probably want to remain part of?

 

What are the decentralised agencies?

These agencies have been set up by the EU to perform technical and scientific tasks that help the EU institutions implement policies and take decisions. They are spread across the EU.

 

What do they do?

They work on issues and problems affecting the everyday lives of the 500m people living in the EU. They have a major impact, providing EU institutions and countries with specialised knowledge in areas as diverse as:

• the food we eat
• our medicines
• the chemicals we come into contact with
• our education
• the quality of our working lives & environment
• justice
• transport safety
• security
• our fundamental rights
• knowledge
• provide services to members of the public and industry.
  
  I suppose OUT means OUT

 

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

So you mean that the UK could not do all this for itself? 

The UK of course could set up organizations to carry out these tasks , but the real issue involves obtaining Mutual recognition , one of them non tarriff barriers to trade that needs to be overcome

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

 

The UK of course could set up organizations to carry out these tasks , but the real issue involves obtaining Mutual recognition , one of them non tarriff barriers to trade that needs to be overcome

UK welfare authorities already exist and are not normally concerned with trade barriers.

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

UK welfare authorities already exist and are not normally concerned with trade barriers.

Really , do you actually understand, or just respond as an ideological theory

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Really , do you actually understand, or just respond as an ideological theory

Just stating facts. How about you?

[rockingrobin]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/survation-poll-shows-public-is-overwhelmingly-opposed-to-hard-brexit-2017-6

[nauseus]

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

This article is distorted to hell (surprise surprise)! Someone didn't read it all (surprise surprise)!

 

In Dominic Cummings: "how the Brexit referendum was won" there are two direct references to lying as follows:

 

Many of those who blame defeat on ‘lies’, including Cameron, Osborne, and Clegg themselves told flat-out lies. One example will do. Cameron and Osborne claimed repeatedly on TV, almost always unchallenged, that their new deal meant ‘after six months if you haven’t got a job you have to leave’. This is not an argument over the fairness of using a gross/net figure, like ‘£350 million’, or even a properly bogus figure like the Treasury’s £4,000 per household figure. It is a different category of claim – a flat out 100% lie. (For more details see HERE.) How much time did Today, Newsnight, and the Guardian spend explaining to people that the PM and Chancellor were lying through their teeth? Approximately none. Why? Because very few of those complaining about lies really are cross about ‘lies’ – they are cross they lost and they are not so interested in discussing a lie that undermines the pro-EU campaign’s attempt to neutralise fear of immigration.

 

Further, many of the same people spent the entire campaign saying ‘Vote Leave has admitted a Leave vote means leaving the Single Market, this is what will happen make no mistake…’ and now say ‘the Single Market was not an issue, Vote Leave never had a policy on it and there is no mandate for leaving it’. Cameron, Osborne, Mandelson, Campbell and Clegg spent much of the last 20 years lying through their teeth to further their own interests and prestige. Now they whine about ‘lies’. They deserved worse than they got – and reasonable Remain-ers deserved better leadership.

 

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Dear Grouse,

 

I've given my reasons already and I'm not going through that again. The trading idea was good but the EU, as it is, is a corrupt, mismanaged, inefficient and failing project that allows far too much influence from global corporations. There seems to be no intent for serious reform of it. The ultimate aim is for a federal EU superstate which will eventually absorb the UK to become just a group of islands divided into EU regions.  

 

If the majority of British people wanted to lose their national identity, culture and inheritance that then I would accept it. But personally, I would be very sad. But I don't really think they do.

 

The kids have grown up with the EU around them and even as part of their studies. I understand that it is a shock for them that membership of the EU is even in question at all. But from what they say, a lot of them seem to think that the world will end outside the EU, indeed that the EU is the world itself! But I'm glad I meant plenty of young men and women in the UK last year that voted out - they have actually asked their own questions after serious study of the EU and realized what a sham it is! Good for them - they do not prioritize mobile roaming charges or cheap flights and holidays!

  

The global economic markets at the moment are primarily driven by sentiment, apart from the usual control by the big banks. The sentiment factor especially applies in Europe right now. If the process of leaving had been accepted and got on with, without continuous interference,and delay I think there would be much less volatility. But the EU will be better off to allow some kind of trading arrangement with the UK, and I think even they realize that. I hope that this can be agreed. 

 

But our "banana boat" is more likely to float, once the lines are cut, while the EU continues to ship water.

 

 

So, what's the benefit to me and the average Brit.

 

I appreciate your treatise on not wanting to be part of a "corrupt" super state. I understand.

 

But what exactly are the tangible benefits of leaving?

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Thats what Trots do, McDonalds ideology is as twisted as a pigs tail.

Yes, I agree. No time for all these "peoples' front" rallies. By all means try and vote down the Queeg's speech, but Trots on the streets will damage labour.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

But I'm glad I meant met plenty of young men and women in the UK last year that voted out

What vegetables were they picking?

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

So you mean that the UK could not do all this for itself? 

But we don't, obviously ?