Trump wins White House in astonishing victory

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

You are blaming Trump for modifying his position based on the expert opinions he looks to for counsel ?

 

Apparently liberals view a dynamic problem-solver who listens to all angles as a character flaw.

 

As for the proposed wall being harmful to the environment--seriously? Is this actually a serious concern? How so?

 

A wall would affect wildlife movement. Some of it is already fenced but most of it is wilderness. There are national parks along the border, like Big Bend - nobody should be messing with these places.

 

Apart from that, it's just a feelbad idea, and it still won't prevent illegal immigration.

[ClutchClark]

9 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

A wall would affect wildlife movement. Some of it is already fenced but most of it is wilderness. There are national parks along the border, like Big Bend - nobody should be messing with these places.

 

Apart from that, it's just a feelbad idea, and it still won't prevent illegal immigration.

 

We currently have fences.

 

They work.

 

But how can you argue walls don't keep humans from getting through but then argue that same wall will prevent all wildlife?

 

What animals migrate to Mexico BTW?

 

And who is talking about destroying BiBend NP? That border is mostly steep canyon and not ever likely to see a fence or wall. Ofcourse, I am assuming you actually have been there.

Edited November 12, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

A wall would affect wildlife movement. Some of it is already fenced but most of it is wilderness. There are national parks along the border, like Big Bend - nobody should be messing with these places.

 

Apart from that, it's just a feelbad idea, and it still won't prevent illegal immigration.

 

If by wildlife movement you mean Juarez Cartels migrating into Texas, Yep it would have a positive effect. 

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

You are blaming Trump for modifying his position based on the expert opinions he looks to for counsel ?

Apparently liberals view a dynamic problem-solver who listens to all angles as a character flaw. As for the proposed wall being harmful to the environment--seriously? Is this actually a serious concern? How so?

 

      It's called lying.  It's the what a snake-oil salesman does, and Trump is Snake Oil Salesman #1.

 

     If I make a promise, I keep it.  If Trump makes a promise, it doesn't mean anything.  It's just words blown out of his mouth - to get people to prop him up.  All his multitudes of gun-totting followers believed his promises, did they not?  They also believed him when, for years, he said Obama was not born in the USA.  What do birthers believe now?  It doesn't matter, because the purpose of the birther movement has been fulfilled:  it was to show rednecks what a tough (and insightful / inciteful) guy the Trumpster is.  It propped up his image.  Now he doesn't need to keep repeating that particular lie, so he dropped it.

 

      They also believed Trump when he shouted, each day, what a horrible person HRC was.  He denigrated thousands of others who didn't prop him up.  Then, the day after the election, he says HRC is a good citizen.  He also donated to HRC's two election campaigns in earlier years, and that too proves what a lower-than-scum manipulating liar Trump is, when compared to his hate-filled 'lock-her-up' shouting of the past 17 months.  

 

        When Trump gives a "State of the Union" speech.  All his fans are going to jump up and down, believing he'll do what he says he'll do.   Then Trump won't follow up.   Then, what are his fans going to do?  Will they still believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim?   Nothing would surprise me.  If there are any more gullible group of bullies, let me know.  Ok, maybe ISIS fighters are more gullible, for believing in their screwed belief system.

 

 

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I was under the impression that the wall was supposed to achieve something, apologies if I got it wrong. China of old did not have to deal with many of today's constraints. Also, the building of the Chinese wall was hardly something which could be achieved within a presidential term (or even two).

 

The Mexican Wall will achieve it's intended purpose. It's intended purpose will be to keep pedestrians out, not armies.

[Rob13]

A taste of what's to come : 

 

Trump team rivalries spark infighting

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 It's called lying.  It's the what a snake-oil salesman does, and Trump is Snake Oil Salesman #1.

 

     If I make a promise, I keep it.  If Trump makes a promise, it doesn't mean anything.  It's just words blown out of his mouth - to get people to prop him up.  All his multitudes of gun-totting followers believed his promises, did they not?  They also believed him when, for years, he said Obama was not born in the USA.  What do birthers believe now?  It doesn't matter, because the purpose of the birther movement has been fulfilled:  it was to show rednecks what a tough (and insightful / inciteful) guy the Trumpster is.  It propped up his image.  Now he doesn't need to keep repeating that particular lie, so he dropped it.

 

      They also believed Trump when he shouted, each day, what a horrible person HRC was.  He denigrated thousands of others who didn't prop him up.  Then, the day after the election, he says HRC is a good citizen.  He also donated to HRC's two election campaigns in earlier years, and that too proves what a lower-than-scum manipulating liar Trump is, when compared to his hate-filled 'lock-her-up' shouting of the past 17 months.  

 

        When Trump gives a "State of the Union" speech.  All his fans are going to jump up and down, believing he'll do what he says he'll do.   Then Trump won't follow up.   Then, what are his fans going to do?  Will they still believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim?   Nothing would surprise me.  If there are any more gullible group of bullies, let me know.  Ok, maybe ISIS fighters are more gullible, for believing in their screwed belief system.

 

Do you so conveniently forget the rhetoric "Hill" was spouting against Obama in 2008? Then conveniently retracted and allied with him, and now they are buddy buddy homies with Michelle speaking at "Hill" rallies & stuff. 

 

Geez its politics, you gotta get over it. That dog won't hunt anymore. 

 

Trump said some retarded stuff but what he said was a stark contrast to Obama & Hillary, and people liked it. Trump didn't get voted in because he's a professional pussy grabber or wall builder so let it go. You got to stop insulting "the other side" because you believe them to be sub-par shitkickers. 

Take away something positive, because clearly what Obama & Hill been doing for 8 years + has people throwing molotov cocktails into the works. And rightfully so. HRC Was a horrible person pandering to a small minority and calling everyone else a racist misogynist KKK member who didn't vote for her. Shit got old. Hillary lost because of it. Now you guys might be paying the price for all the bootlicking racial hate speech comments. 

[lannarebirth]

15 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

A taste of what's to come : 

 

Trump team rivalries spark infighting

 

Good article. Just got to let things play out.

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, tropo said:

The Mexican Wall will achieve it's intended purpose. It's intended purpose will be to keep pedestrians out, not armies.

 

The "Mexican" Wall?

If it ever will be built (and it won't) it will be the US wall, or more likely Trump's Wall.

How's about building it first, then asserting it does the job. Until then, hang on to fantasies.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Morch

[ClutchClark]

58 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

      It's called lying.  It's the what a snake-oil salesman does, and Trump is Snake Oil Salesman #1.

 

     If I make a promise, I keep it.  If Trump makes a promise, it doesn't mean anything.  It's just words blown out of his mouth - to get people to prop him up.  All his multitudes of gun-totting followers believed his promises, did they not?  They also believed him when, for years, he said Obama was not born in the USA.  What do birthers believe now?  It doesn't matter, because the purpose of the birther movement has been fulfilled:  it was to show rednecks what a tough (and insightful / inciteful) guy the Trumpster is.  It propped up his image.  Now he doesn't need to keep repeating that particular lie, so he dropped it.

 

      They also believed Trump when he shouted, each day, what a horrible person HRC was.  He denigrated thousands of others who didn't prop him up.  Then, the day after the election, he says HRC is a good citizen.  He also donated to HRC's two election campaigns in earlier years, and that too proves what a lower-than-scum manipulating liar Trump is, when compared to his hate-filled 'lock-her-up' shouting of the past 17 months.  

 

        When Trump gives a "State of the Union" speech.  All his fans are going to jump up and down, believing he'll do what he says he'll do.   Then Trump won't follow up.   Then, what are his fans going to do?  Will they still believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim?   Nothing would surprise me.  If there are any more gullible group of bullies, let me know.  Ok, maybe ISIS fighters are more gullible, for believing in their screwed belief system.

 

 

 

 

My memory is a little rusty.

 

What was the date that obama closed down Gitmo agsin?

 

and I can't find the dates we pulled all of our troops out of Iraq & Afghanistan...do you happen to have those handy? 

 

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you on the importance of keeping campaign promises. Please continue.

[Opl]

43 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

43 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Good article. Just got to let things play out.

Just got to let things play out.

 

Quote :      56 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

A taste of what's to come :  Trump team rivalries spark infighting

End of quote.

 

So... not yet a "Mexican" wall, but maybe already a "Mexican " army (This expression dates from 1910, period of the Mexican revolution. At the time, the revolution was led by peasants without military training. The leaders are multiplied, without any tactical organization, which makes the army little credible in the eyes of the enemy.)

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Opl

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

 

      It's called lying.  It's the what a snake-oil salesman does, and Trump is Snake Oil Salesman #1.

 

     If I make a promise, I keep it.  If Trump makes a promise, it doesn't mean anything.  It's just words blown out of his mouth - to get people to prop him up.  All his multitudes of gun-totting followers believed his promises, did they not?  They also believed him when, for years, he said Obama was not born in the USA.  What do birthers believe now?  It doesn't matter, because the purpose of the birther movement has been fulfilled:  it was to show rednecks what a tough (and insightful / inciteful) guy the Trumpster is.  It propped up his image.  Now he doesn't need to keep repeating that particular lie, so he dropped it.

 

      They also believed Trump when he shouted, each day, what a horrible person HRC was.  He denigrated thousands of others who didn't prop him up.  Then, the day after the election, he says HRC is a good citizen.  He also donated to HRC's two election campaigns in earlier years, and that too proves what a lower-than-scum manipulating liar Trump is, when compared to his hate-filled 'lock-her-up' shouting of the past 17 months.  

 

        When Trump gives a "State of the Union" speech.  All his fans are going to jump up and down, believing he'll do what he says he'll do.   Then Trump won't follow up.   Then, what are his fans going to do?  Will they still believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim?   Nothing would surprise me.  If there are any more gullible group of bullies, let me know.  

 

 

 

 

I have spoken to quite a few republican voters these past months and the only thing they believe is a Trump victory means an end to obama's BS and a successful effort of keeping lying hillary out of the WH.

 

And they already got their wish.

 

Anything else Trump can deliver is simply "icing on the cake".

 

I won't even waste time on addressing the rest of your ridiculous post. You were one of Hillary's most vociferous supporters on here the past seversl months. 

 

You lost.

 

Its to late for you to lose gracefully but you can atleast save some face by stopping with the name-calling. 

[Rob13]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

The Mexican Wall will achieve it's intended purpose. It's intended purpose will be to keep pedestrians out, not armies.

 

 

Won't do much for keeping out the tunnelers and boaters though. It'll be a boon for the locals, so not a complete waste.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Rob13

[boomerangutang]

55 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

A taste of what's to come : 

Trump team rivalries spark infighting

 

It reminds me of the infighting among Scientology top echelon.  There actually are a lot of similarities.

[ddavidovsky]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

We currently have fences.

 

They work.

 

But how can you argue walls don't keep humans from getting through but then argue that same wall will prevent all wildlife?

 

What animals migrate to Mexico BTW?

 

And who is talking about destroying BiBend NP? That border is mostly steep canyon and not ever likely to see a fence or wall. Ofcourse, I am assuming you actually have been there.

 

Of course not   I take an interest though, on behalf of the wildlife.

 

Animals that move around there include desert bighorn sheep. More information here: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37200583

 

I don't think the existing fences really work. People come up with all sorts of ingenious ways of getting under, over or around obstacles. The animals though will be stumped.

 

I reckon if Trump actually wants a wall, it's only because he hasn't thought it all through. And I reckon the people don't want a wall either, but they're pleased the issue has been raised, because that shows attitudes are changing, and changing attitudes is really what Trump is all about.

[Dipterocarp]

Trump should quietly let the Clinton camp know if they emigrate in disgrace he won't pursue extradition.

Bill's ancestral isle, or perhaps her friends in Teheran might let her in? 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Dipterocarp

[Dtrump]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The "Mexican" Wall?

If it ever will be built (and it won't) it will be the US wall, or more likely Trump's Wall.

How's about building it first, then asserting it does the job. Until then, hang on to fantasies.

700 miles of wall already built.

[Dtrump]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

The Mexican Wall will achieve it's intended purpose. It's intended purpose will be to keep pedestrians out, not armies.

It will move them to boats.  Boon for the local fishermen and shrimpers. 

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, Dtrump said:

It will move them to boats.  Boon for the local fishermen and shrimpers. 

 

Geographically impractical.

[ClutchClark]

6 minutes ago, Dtrump said:

700 miles of wall already built.

 

Isn't that funny? 

 

The wall has been under construction for around the past 6 years of obama's time in office but not publicized.

[boomerangutang]

4 hours ago, Rob13 said:

Won't do much for keeping out the tunnelers and boaters though. It'll be a boon for the locals, so not a complete waste.

 

Most Mexicans and Latinos who enter the US, do so legally by plane.  Some overstay.  However, here are some other facts that Trump and his sheeple don't want to acknowledge:

 

In recent years, more people (Mexicans and Americans) have gone south to Mexico, than have traveled north.

 

There are more Chinese overstayers, than Latinos.

 

....but no one ever accused Trump of getting facts straight or keeping promises.   Since Trump fans have no problem with Trump breaking multiple campaign promises, then perhaps his fans were so dazzled/awed by his stage presence, that it didn't matter what words came out of his mouth.

 

Brace yourselves for added national debt, estimated at about an added trillion $$'s each year.  Just as surely, Trump and his apologists will have excuses galore.   Perhaps someone should whisper in Trump's ear: "if you cut taxes on the wealthy and increase overall spending (military, walls, etc), then bad things will happen with the economy."

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Dtrump said:

700 miles of wall already built.

 

3 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Isn't that funny? 

 

The wall has been under construction for around the past 6 years of obama's time in office but not publicized.

 

The existing barrier is nothing like the wall Trump was referring to, rather specifically, an on more than one occasion.

It is also not true that it was "not publicized" - details are easily available (like here). If I remember correctly, it was even discussed at some length on TVF a while back (probably when the cross border tunneling issue cropped up in the news).

 

If Trump supporters wish to claim there is already a wall, then they probably need to address Trump's statements about building the already existing wall.

 

[Dtrump]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

The existing barrier is nothing like the wall Trump was referring to, rather specifically, an on more than one occasion.

It is also not true that it was "not publicized" - details are easily available (like here). If I remember correctly, it was even discussed at some length on TVF a while back (probably when the cross border tunneling issue cropped up in the news).

 

If Trump supporters wish to claim there is already a wall, then they probably need to address Trump's statements about building the already existing wall.

 

What I heard the latest idea is double fence with road in between to patrol.  It won't make much difference.  They'll come by boat.  The Gulf of Mexico is a big place. 

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, Dtrump said:

What I heard the latest idea is double fence with road in between to patrol.  It won't make much difference.  They'll come by boat.  The Gulf of Mexico is a big place. 

 

Yeah well, neither is the wall Trump was talking about during the campaign trail.

Can't recall chants of "build the double fence with road in between" on his rallies...

[ClutchClark]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

The existing barrier is nothing like the wall Trump was referring to, rather specifically, an on more than one occasion.

It is also not true that it was "not publicized" - details are easily available (like here). If I remember correctly, it was even discussed at some length on TVF a while back (probably when the cross border tunneling issue cropped up in the news).

 

If Trump supporters wish to claim there is already a wall, then they probably need to address Trump's statements about building the already existing wall.

 

 

I typically do not take pleasure in another's misfortune but I do have to say it amuses me how angry the hillary supporters are. Its just all bitch, bich, bitch from all of them...I am relieved you are different from that. 

 

Yes, an extension to existing walls have been under construction for years but it was so nice to hear DT paint the image of a Great Wall of China size construction along the entire length of that southern border. It was like hearing a man of the cloth

describing heaven. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Dtrump]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah well, neither is the wall Trump was talking about during the campaign trail.

Can't recall chants of "build the double fence with road in between" on his rallies...

Trump has built a lot of things.  He will get the most bang for the buck.  Wall or fence or whatever seems to accomplish his purpose - to make it more difficult for future Democratic party voters to cross into the USA.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Dtrump

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah well, neither is the wall Trump was talking about during the campaign trail.

Can't recall chants of "build the double fence with road in between" on his rallies...

Next it will be an electronic fence which is certainly OK but he made such a lying show of that wall crapola.

I wouldn't be surprised though if he builds at least one small (like his "hands") section that's really tall, really golden (paint),  and BRANDED with his name and presidential portrait. He's an egomaniac of historic proportions, that's for sure. 

[boomerangutang]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Trump did not speak of the wall as a metaphor, but was rather specific describing it. Certain figures tossed in for good measure as well. Not that I (and many others) believed the wall will be built, the issue is more with how Trump and his statements are perceived. 

 

        Good point.  Now that Trump is shying away from the beautiful wall idea which he shouted every day for the past 16 months, .....his apologists are saying it was a metaphor.    It's like your mom saying she's going to bake you a big beautiful cake for your birthday.  Birthday comes, you get a stale cookie in a wrapper.  "oh the big chocolate cake?  ha ha ha, that was a metaphor."

 

7 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

We currently have fences. They work.

But how can you argue walls don't keep humans from getting through but then argue that same wall will prevent all wildlife? What animals migrate to Mexico BTW?

And who is talking about destroying BiBend NP? That border is mostly steep canyon and not ever likely to see a fence or wall. Ofcourse, I am assuming you actually have been there.

 

         A big 2000 mile long wall with require mega building materials and many miles of new highways to ease construction and maintenance.  It will require power plants, fossil fuels, excavations, and a shitload of taxpayer money, easily over $30 billion to build it, and as much to maintain and staff it.  Everything Trump has ever done has been with other peoples' money, so he has no real sense of the value of the stuff. For him, it's always been there for the taking - no matter if it can't be paid back.  As he proudly says, "I'm great with debt."

 

5 hours ago, Rob13 said:

Won't do much for keeping out the tunnelers and boaters though. It'll be a boon for the locals, so not a complete waste.

 

          Most locals don't want the wall.  One group, the landowners along the Rio Grande, don't want their view of or access to the river blocked, and they don't like big chunks of their property commandeered by the Feds. 

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Dtrump said:

Trump has built a lot of things.  He will get the most bang for the buck.  Wall or fence or whatever seems to accomplish his purpose - to make it more difficult for future Democratic party voters to cross into the USA.

 

Again, building a hotel or a casino is not quite on par with building a cross state mega wall. Even Trump's off the cuff figures on this were dismissed as incorrect (and no, not exclusively by pro-democrats). The whole thing is just another instance of salesmanship, most of us would not take lightly to builder providing a fence over a promised wall. The point being, mind the gap. The one between statements and reality.

[Dtrump]

Just now, boomerangutang said:

 

        Good point.  Now that Trump is shying away from the beautiful wall idea which he shouted every day for the past 16 months, .....his apologists are saying it was a metaphor.    It's like your mom saying she's going to bake you a big beautiful cake for your birthday.  Birthday comes, you get a stale cookie in a wrapper.  "oh the big chocolate cake?  ha ha ha, that was a metaphor."

 

 

         A big 2000 mile long wall with require mega building materials and many miles of new highways to ease construction and maintenance.  It will require power plants, fossil fuels, excavations, and a shitload of taxpayer money, easily over $30 billion to build it, and as much to maintain and staff it.  Everything Trump has ever done has been with other peoples' money, so he has no real sense of the value of the stuff. For him, it's always been there for the taking - no matter if it can't be paid back.  As he proudly says, "I'm great with debt."

 

 

          Most locals don't want the wall.  One group, the landowners along the Rio Grande, don't want their view of or access to the river blocked, and they don't like big chunks of their property commandeered by the Feds. 

Most locals who are not Hispanic want the wall especially the isolated ranchers.  I have relatives there and know from experience.