Trump wins White House in astonishing victory

[Credo]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I'm sure the individual states would survive just fine without the federal government messing things up more than they already are.

 

As said elsewhere, nihilism. Tear it all down. Make America great again....err.

That might work, but I wouldn't want to be living in Mississippi.   

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I'm sure the individual states would survive just fine without the federal government messing things up more than they already are.

 

As said elsewhere, nihilism. Tear it all down. Make America great again....err.

Who said anything about nihilism ( though that would certainly make for a fresh start )? The states are all with legislatures, rule of law and police forces. Without the dead hand of federalism they might even flourish, and California could invite every illegal to go live there and use whichever bathroom they please.

[Opl]

" “Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so.

Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today" by Timothy Snyder, Housum Professor of History Yale University

 

- 1. Do not obey in advance

------

7. Stand out.

8. Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom

9. Investigate. Figure things out for yourself.

...........

20. Be a patriot. The incoming president is not. Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it.“

 

learn more : http://lapelosa.tumblr.com/post/153343741892/twenty-lessons-from-the-20th-century

[Ulysses G.]

10 minutes ago, Opl said:

Twenty Lessons from the 20th Century - by Timothy Snyder, Housum Professor of History Yale University

 

" “Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so.

Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today"

 

- 1. Do not obey in advance

2. Defend an institution

3. Recall professional ethics

4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words

5. Be calm when the unthinkable arrives

6. Be kind to our language

7. Stand out.

8. Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom

9. Investigate. Figure things out for yourself.

...........

learn more : http://lapelosa.tumblr.com/post/153343741892/twenty-lessons-from-the-20th-century

 

 He also claims that Trump is not a patriot and offers no evidence to back it up. IMO that is the usual partisan nonsense.I am not going to pay much attention to someone who opines like that.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, Opl said:

Twenty Lessons from the 20th Century - by Timothy Snyder, Housum Professor of History Yale University

 

" “Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so. Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today"

 

- 1. Do not obey in advance

 

learn more : http://lapelosa.tumblr.com/post/153343741892/twenty-lessons-from-the-20th-century

The 20th gives the game away. Just another anti Trumper. Unfortunately for us all, he won because the opponent was beyond bad. Without a better choice, his philosophy is void, IMO.

One way to survive- join the militias. Nothing lasts for ever.

[Morch]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Who said anything about nihilism ( though that would certainly make for a fresh start )? The states are all with legislatures, rule of law and police forces. Without the dead hand of federalism they might even flourish, and California could invite every illegal to go live there and use whichever bathroom they please.

 

I did. It is the inevitable conclusion following your posts and line of reasoning. Without a federal government, will the United states still be united? Will America be great again, or would it be _________ (fill in state) great again?

[thaibeachlovers]

47 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I did. It is the inevitable conclusion following your posts and line of reasoning. Without a federal government, will the United states still be united? Will America be great again, or would it be _________ (fill in state) great again?

LOL. There is no necessity for the states to be part of a "united" whole. Britain has just exited the EU because it is so bad, and will survive quite nicely on it's own. Africa is not run as one country, South America is not "united".

It would just be different.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. There is no necessity for the states to be part of a "united" whole. Britain has just exited the EU because it is so bad, and will survive quite nicely on it's own. Africa is not run as one country, South America is not "united".

It would just be different.

 

So, with reference to the UNITED states - you advocate tearing it all down, ergo nihilism. That's hardly something Trump campaigned for, quite the opposite. I daresay most voters haven't signed up for this. 

[RawboneFunksta]

If anything the world will be freer under Trump.

The left have attempted to close down attitudes and behaviour my limiting free speech.

This does not work. Real racists etc will not be put off by political correctness but ordinary people are dissuaded from engaging in debate or discussion lest they are labelled with epithets.

I really hope academia gets a shake up and thirty years of 'progressive education' otherwise known as 'white guilt' and man hating(self loathing) comes to an end. 

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

So, with reference to the UNITED states - you advocate tearing it all down, ergo nihilism. That's hardly something Trump campaigned for, quite the opposite. I daresay most voters haven't signed up for this. 

I didn't suggest it as a serious consideration, just as a reaction to some more OTT posts on this thread.

However, I don't see that terminating the US would lead to chaos, any more than in Britain.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't suggest it as a serious consideration, just as a reaction to some more OTT posts on this thread.

However, I don't see that terminating the US would lead to chaos, any more than in Britain.

 

And yet you posted along similar lines on multiple topics. Guess that amounts to either backpedaling or admitting to being a troll. The second line is pretty much another instance of either one or both of these options.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, RawboneFunksta said:

If anything the world will be freer under Trump.

The left have attempted to close down attitudes and behaviour my limiting free speech.

This does not work. Real racists etc will not be put off by political correctness but ordinary people are dissuaded from engaging in debate or discussion lest they are labelled with epithets.

I really hope academia gets a shake up and thirty years of 'progressive education' otherwise known as 'white guilt' and man hating(self loathing) comes to an end. 

My hope is that under Trump the world will see less US interference in other countries. IMO an isolationist US would lead to some chaos initially, but a better world in the end.

However, I would be learning Chinese in that event.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Morch said:

 

And yet you posted along similar lines on multiple topics. Guess that amounts to either backpedaling or admitting to being a troll.

The second line is pretty much another instance of either one or both of these options.

Good grief. It's an anonymous FORUM, not the world council. Perhaps lighten up a bit.

Nothing any of us say on here will make an iota of difference in the real world.

[GinBoy2]

On 11/14/2016 at 1:34 AM, SheungWan said:

 

The next two years are not just about Trump's performance but also about how the DP responds. If Trump's win sends them into a mental breakdown and the party swings definitively into an Elizabeth Warren/Bernie Saunders style weirdness, then a future similar to that of the UK Labour Party beckons, namely irrelevance. The real action will be elsewhere.

I actually think neither the GOP or DNC should take any great comfort from the election.

 

I posted this into another thread earlier, but it's pretty relevant here too. Electors basically just didn't show up, which says tons about how the country at large viewed both Trump & HRC. Lowest turnout in 20 years, with only just over half of the electorate even bothering to vote. When you look at the absolute numbers and percentages, hardly a landslide, and hardly good for democracy in general, when the POTUS is elected with basically a quarter of the population. And as for the popular vote numbers difference of around 800K (Clinton leading) it's basically a city the size of San Francisco worth!

 

So my take is if either side of this is reading anything into the numbers, other than the fact vast numbers of their own supporters just didn't show up, they are learning all the wrong lessons.

 

I'm very much with the general position, that if he indeed does turn out to be a disaster, (I didn't vote for him, but equally he's not POTUS yet, so I'm bracing for the worst but would love to be pleasantly surprised) 2 years until the mid terms isn't long, and then then they can both fight for the Senate.

 

And, as for that turnout, we all as Americans should be ashamed of ourselves. We seem to collectively think its a good idea to make having car insurance compulsory, yet electing the leader of the free world....ehhhh not so much!

[Jingthing]

Democrats don't have any chance of taking over the senate in the midterms. It's simply a numbers game. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I actually think neither the GOP or DNC should take any great comfort from the election.

 

I posted this into another thread earlier, but it's pretty relevant here too. Electors basically just didn't show up, which says tons about how the country at large viewed both Trump & HRC. Lowest turnout in 20 years, with only just over half of the electorate even bothering to vote. When you look at the absolute numbers and percentages, hardly a landslide, and hardly good for democracy in general, when the POTUS is elected with basically a quarter of the population. And as for the popular vote numbers difference of around 800K (Clinton leading) it's basically a city the size of San Francisco worth!

 

So my take is if either side of this is reading anything into the numbers, other than the fact vast numbers of their own supporters just didn't show up, they are learning all the wrong lessons.

 

I'm very much with the general position, that if he indeed does turn out to be a disaster, (I didn't vote for him, but equally he's not POTUS yet, so I'm bracing for the worst but would love to be pleasantly surprised) 2 years until the mid terms isn't long, and then then they can both fight for the Senate.

 

And, as for that turnout, we all as Americans should be ashamed of ourselves. We seem to collectively think its a good idea to make having car insurance compulsory, yet electing the leader of the free world....ehhhh not so much!

The best way to ensure good people stand for politics is to ban lobbyists and make the states pay for the election campaign. The present system has to be the best way to attract unsuitable candidates and create corruption.

The campaign should also be 12 months shorter. Even 6 months is too long, but it would be 3 months for primaries and 3 months for the general, which is what countries with more sane elections tend to have.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The best way to ensure good people stand for politics is to ban lobbyists and make the states pay for the election campaign. The present system has to be the best way to attract unsuitable candidates and create corruption.

The campaign should also be 12 months shorter. Even 6 months is too long, but it would be 3 months for primaries and 3 months for the general, which is what countries with more sane elections tend to have.

Lobbyists are a symptom, money is the real problem.

 

We've let the system become corrupted by money, the lobbyists are just the mouthpiece for the money.

 

Now, my only comfort is that Trump, I'm sure for his own reasons, laid out the whole ugly truth about money in politics, the pay for play. I thought one of the better parts of an all together distasteful election was during one of the GOP primary debates, he pointed at everyone of them and said (I may be paraphrasing) "I gave money to all of you, and you don't think I expected something in return?"

 

Until we somehow get the money out of the equation, what self respecting intelligent publicly minded citizen would even contemplate soiling their hands?

 

Unless of course we're comfortable with money hungry politician, or super rich manics with reality TV shows.

 

I fear the latter....time for that bastion of left wing thinking to surface for the DNC....Jerry Springer 2020....God Help Us!