Foreign income brought into Thailand

[andux]

Hello,

 

Last year I was in Thailand for over 183 days, hence became a resident for tax purposes of the Kingdom. I was a student for the first part of the year, and then traveled around Southeast Asia for the rest of the time, going back to Thailand often.

 

A few weeks ago I went to the Revenue Department to ask how could I declare the income brought into Thailand, and I was given a Tax ID, although I left with more questions than answers, and the person who helped me seemed a bit shocked, as if I was the first person ever to go to them for this (probably :) ). They told me to report this income as  บริการ (borigaan). I'm afraid, however, that this could imply working in Thailand, since there is no way to specify that the money is brought from overseas or that the source is not Thai.

 

Any thoughts/experiences with this?

 

Thanks!

[overherebc]

As a student and then a tourist why would you even think about that? Unless you were working illegally you were not earning any money.

Do you think someone on holiday here for a year should pay tax on the money they spend on the holiday?

Edited January 10, 2017 by overherebc

[andux]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

As a student and then a tourist why would you even think about that? Unless you were working illegally you were not earning any money.

Do you think someone on holiday here for a year should pay tax on the money they spend on the holiday?

 

Well, the law says that anyone who stays for over 183 days in a given year becomes a tax resident, and needs to pay tax on foreign income brought into the country. Here is the source: www.rd.go.th/publish/6044.0.html

[Maestro]

...brought into the country during the same tax year in which it was earned.

A natural person can tacitly presume that that the money was earned during a previous year, ie that he transferred savings to Thailand, and therefore not declare it. To the best of my knowledge, the Thai revenue department has never attempted to prove otherwise.

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[JayBird]

The letter of the law does say that you are tax resident, and have to pay taxes on income brought in that was earned during that year.  If it really was earned during that year (you do not indicate the source of your income) you are liable for taxes.

 

That being said, you might invite more problems than not by doing this.  You might want to consult a good tax lawyer before proceeding or they may mis-interpret what you are doing.

 

Also you may want to consider if you've already paid income tax on this at source.

[IMA_FARANG]

If you have a Thai bank account each time you ransfer money into your Thai bank account a source code for those funds is automatically generated by a computer and is displayed in your Thai bank passbook along with the date, the time, and the amount.

Whether or not that is taxablw by the Thais is a diferent subject.

Often it may not be taxable.

But your idea that funds being reansferred into thailand are not recorded is simply not true if you put those funds ito a Thai bank account.

 

[Get Real]

As IMA_FARANG states the money that is brought in is always recorded and tracable in some way. Even if you brought it in by western union, there will be a slip.

One thing I find very strange though, is that they gave you a TIN, Tax Identification Number, at the revenue department. Usually thoose are only issued to people with a registered business or employed people. That just because of that if you do not have a business visa or at least a work permit, you are not legally permitted to have an income that are taxable in Thailand. That disregarding if you make your money in your country or in Thailand. That clerk must just been having a very strange mind and way of thinking.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Get Real said:

One thing I find very strange though, is that they gave you a TIN, Tax Identification Number, at the revenue department. Usually thoose are only issued to people with a registered business or employed people.

They will issue a tax ID number to anybody that applies for one.

Many people get them so they reclaim tax paid for interest earned on savings accounts.

[Maestro]

@IMA_FARANG You and JayBird use "source" to mean two different things. JayBird means the person or company paying the income; you mean the geographical location, ie outside Thailand.

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[Get Real]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They will issue a tax ID number to anybody that applies for one.

Many people get them so they reclaim tax paid for interest earned on savings accounts.

Okey! I got the wrong information then, when I asked a lawyer a while ago. Sorry for that.

Does that mean if I stay here all the time, I can go get one and pay the tax for provision from other people working in my home country in Thailand? Same like the income my visa is already based on. Mean I don´t work, but people are work for me that I have long time ago sold to another company that pay me lifelong commission on thoose workers. It would be easier to pay the tax for the provision in Thailand. Is that possible?

Edited January 11, 2017 by Get Real

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Okey! I got the wrong information then, when I asked a lawyer a while ago. Sorry for that.

Does that mean if I stay here all the time, I can go get one and pay the tax for provision from other people working in my home country in Thailand? Same like the income my visa is already based on. Mean I don´t work, but people are work for me that I have long time ago sold to another company that pay me lifelong commission on thoose workers. It would be easier to pay the tax for the provision in Thailand. Is that possible?

You could declare the portion of your income that you bring into the country and pay taxes on it if you wanted to,

[Get Real]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

You could declare the portion of your income that you bring into the country and pay taxes on it if you wanted to,

Oooh! That would be all, due to that I have automatic transfer dates, and yes I want to pay tax. I am actually one of thoose that beleive it will bring me some benefits later on if I might need something.

Thanks for your quick answer.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

Oooh! That would be all, due to that I have automatic transfer dates, and yes I want to pay tax. I am actually one of thoose that beleive it will bring me some benefits later on if I might need something.

Thanks for your quick answer.

If your from the UK, then income derived in the UK the tax still needs to be paid there. Of course, I am pretty sure the Thai government would take any tax off of you that you offer them but it doesn't cancel your obligation to pay UK Taxes. You would in effect be paying a double whammy.

[GordonP]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

As IMA_FARANG states the money that is brought in is always recorded and tracable in some way. Even if you brought it in by western union, there will be a slip.

One thing I find very strange though, is that they gave you a TIN, Tax Identification Number, at the revenue department. Usually thoose are only issued to people with a registered business or employed people. That just because of that if you do not have a business visa or at least a work permit, you are not legally permitted to have an income that are taxable in Thailand. That disregarding if you make your money in your country or in Thailand. That clerk must just been having a very strange mind and way of thinking.

Not at all strange. I have a TIN because I have rental income from my apartment. No work permit required, no registered business. Having said that, when I originally approached a tax accountant, they also advised that I couldn't get a TIN without work permit or registered business.

 

When it comes to inward remittances, it may be more difficult to prove that funds moved to Thailand where not current year income. There is also the area of double taxation agreements.

I recall many years ago the UK government did not tax overseas earnings (i.e. a British guy working in the Middle East) as long as they were kept out of the country for the tax year in which they were earned. In those days we banked offshore, earnings went into an "Income Account" where they stayed until April 5th when they were transferred to a "Capital Account" which could be freely remitted back to mainland UK. Using this method one would have to prove that a years income was always kept out of Thailand thus becoming "savings" after the tax year and then freely remittable. That said I've never heard of anyone in Thailand being questioned about this.

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by GordonP

[wgdanson]

does this mean that I SHOULD pay tax on my UK State Pension income, which I must have to get retirement extension?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

does this mean that I SHOULD pay tax on my UK State Pension income, which I must have to get retirement extension?

No it does not.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Get Real said:

As IMA_FARANG states the money that is brought in is always recorded and tracable in some way. Even if you brought it in by western union, there will be a slip.

One thing I find very strange though, is that they gave you a TIN, Tax Identification Number, at the revenue department. Usually thoose are only issued to people with a registered business or employed people. That just because of that if you do not have a business visa or at least a work permit, you are not legally permitted to have an income that are taxable in Thailand. That disregarding if you make your money in your country or in Thailand. That clerk must just been having a very strange mind and way of thinking.

 

No. I am retired, never worked in Thailand, but have a Tax ID and file a tax return as I do receive interest on my investments here.

[Surasak]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They will issue a tax ID number to anybody that applies for one.

Many people get them so they reclaim tax paid for interest earned on savings accounts.

On a side note, how do you claim tax paid in savings interest?

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Surasak said:

On a side note, how do you claim tax paid in savings interest?

 

To reclaim tax deducted from interest:

 

Get certified letter from your bank detailing the interest paid and tax deducted. 

Go to local tax office and request Tax ID number. (Take someone with you to translate if you don't speak good enough Thai)

Get this years tax return form and complete it. 

My local office also likes photocopies of the bank bool page entries that match the details on the certified letter. Not sure why - maybe some sort of cross check.

Submit tax return, original letter and copies of bank book pages.

 

Usually receive a cheque for the amount deducted within 4 weeks through post.

 

I have to say the people at are local tax office are extremely professional, efficient and helpful. 

[localczar]

21 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

To reclaim tax deducted from interest:

 

Get certified letter from your bank detailing the interest paid and tax deducted. 

Go to local tax office and request Tax ID number. (Take someone with you to translate if you don't speak good enough Thai)

Get this years tax return form and complete it. 

My local office also likes photocopies of the bank bool page entries that match the details on the certified letter. Not sure why - maybe some sort of cross check.

Submit tax return, original letter and copies of bank book pages.

 

Usually receive a cheque for the amount deducted within 4 weeks through post.

 

I have to say the people at are local tax office are extremely professional, efficient and helpful. 

Forigners do not recieve interest on bank savings accounts in Thailand...?

Edited January 11, 2017 by localczar
correction

[12DrinkMore]

31 minutes ago, Surasak said:

On a side note, how do you claim tax paid in savings interest?

 

January/February is the time to do this.

 

1. Get statements from banks, "bai long passee" for last calendar/tax year.

 

2. Go to tax office.

 

3. The nice helpful people will fill in the form and generally get thngs done.

 

4. Wait for cheque, 4 to 6 weeks.

 

5. Done.

 

(Subsequent years are easier, as all the details are in the computer system)

Edited January 11, 2017 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

3 minutes ago, localczar said:

Forigners do not recieve interest on bank savings accounts in Thailand...?

 

Yes they do.

[localczar]

3 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Yes they do.

dang...I get nothing from SCB but grief....what bank offers interest bearing accounts to forigners?

Edited January 11, 2017 by localczar
correction

[GordonP]

dang...I get nothing from SCB but grief....what bank offers interest bearing accounts to forigners?

Kaisikorn


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[12DrinkMore]

7 minutes ago, localczar said:

dang...I get nothing from SCB but grief....what bank offers interest bearing accounts to forigners?

 

I do not believe that.

 

SCB is one of the easiest banks to deal with.

 

[MANFROMBOCA]

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

January/February is the time to do this.

 

1. Get statements from banks, "bai long passee" for last calendar/tax year.

 

2. Go to tax office.

 

3. The nice helpful people will fill in the form and generally get thngs done.

 

4. Wait for cheque, 4 to 6 weeks.

 

5. Done.

 

(Subsequent years are easier, as all the details are in the computer system)

as always i do this but this year i was told (yesterday) that they will no lomger fill out the form for you they gave me a photostat of form and told me to find a thai and fill it out and return it.... i will of course wait until next week and try again it may have been the clerk,, in the past years i found them extremely helpful in filing out he forms and getting mey savings tax refund

[Get Real]

3 hours ago, GordonP said:

Not at all strange. I have a TIN because I have rental income from my apartment. No work permit required, no registered business. Having said that, when I originally approached a tax accountant, they also advised that I couldn't get a TIN without work permit or registered business.

 

When it comes to inward remittances, it may be more difficult to prove that funds moved to Thailand where not current year income. There is also the area of double taxation agreements.

I recall many years ago the UK government did not tax overseas earnings (i.e. a British guy working in the Middle East) as long as they were kept out of the country for the tax year in which they were earned. In those days we banked offshore, earnings went into an "Income Account" where they stayed until April 5th when they were transferred to a "Capital Account" which could be freely remitted back to mainland UK. Using this method one would have to prove that a years income was always kept out of Thailand thus becoming "savings" after the tax year and then freely remittable. That said I've never heard of anyone in Thailand being questioned about this.

 

Excuse me! I know already. Got the answer why too. I appologize.

[Fookhaht]

27 minutes ago, MANFROMBOCA said:

as always i do this but this year i was told (yesterday) that they will no lomger fill out the form for you they gave me a photostat of form and told me to find a thai and fill it out and return it.... i will of course wait until next week and try again it may have been the clerk,, in the past years i found them extremely helpful in filing out he forms and getting mey savings tax refund

Why don't you just download the forms (in English), do it yourself, and turn it in?
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/56815.0.html

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Fookhaht said:

Why don't you just download the forms (in English), do it yourself, and turn it in?
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/56815.0.html

Not sure but I  think the form has to be completed in Thai or they will not accept it.

[chilli42]

It's hard for me to imagine what prompted you to want to bring yourself to the attention of the tax authorities.  Just to keep things simple ... keep yourself off the radar of tax authorities and if ever questioned about the source of the money you bring in assure them respectfully that it's from your savings prior to ever coming to Thailand.  The exception would be if you get a work visa in Thailand then by all means report your income as you will need 5 years of tax returns to support an application to be a permenant resident.