Intellectual Whore

[NancyL]

7 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

I was pondering this, and I think I may have realized what the problem thats semi articulated is.. 

 

Is it the case of essentially feeling it unfair, that a man may find you mentally attractive, that he may wish to make use of your sharp wit and shared cultural backgrounds to talk and discuss matters.. But then still have ready access to younger attractive partners for his other desires ?? Is that where the 'whore' kind of vibe is coming from, that its 'using you' to satisfy a mental craving, but then not having any desire for a physical one ?? That this is in a way unfair ?? 

 

Is that close to the money ?? 

 

Because that would be somewhat valid if the entire female western world hadnt been complaining of the exact opposite 'oh my god, I thought he wanted to talk about 3rd wave feminism and french cinema and really he just wanted to get into my pants because I have tits.. What a creep'.. I mean if the above is close to the summary it would seem poetic justice as women have held the power of rationed sexuality as standard practice for since, well, forever.. It would also take a very special kind of blindness to not see how rationing the only appeal left (mental) as it should be part of a package ifsgoing to cause increased frustration and isolation for only the side doing the rationing. 

 

Maybe the OP just wants to be left alone when she's out-and-about running errands and not feel compelled to engage in chit-chat with strangers, just because women are expected to be nice and welcoming.

 

If she was in the mood to chat with strangers in English, she could go to Ladies Lunch or a CEC meeting or Computer Club or any of the hundreds of other ways expats meet-up here.

 

On the flip-side, you have the rather sad observation of Buddhalady, who commented that the closest thing to "the Local" in her neighborhood was a place where the Thai wives sat around one table, the western guys at another and she, in the mood for a nice chat, felt welcome in neither world.  She needs to find another place to enjoy a pint.  Seems the men in her 'hood perhaps feel that older western women shouldn't be welcome here.  They certainly aren't welcoming them.

[mesquite]

59 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

 

There might be one here -

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=beautiful+women+over+55&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkxMmSzsPRAhUEMY8KHed3ADsQ7AkIKg&biw=1467&bih=703

Wow!

[LivinLOS]

Just now, NancyL said:

Maybe the OP just wants to be left alone when she's out-and-about running errands and not feel compelled to engage in chit-chat with strangers, just because women are expected to be nice and welcoming.

 

 

Maybe, but then would that require any thread ?? Just give them the brush off.. Dont want to chit chat, dont stop and chit chat. 

 

Where would that issue, come into the western guys hating western women aspects and 'whore' vibes of somehow being used.. Doesnt make much sense to me if thats the case ??

[NancyL]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

Maybe, but then would that require any thread ?? Just give them the brush off.. Dont want to chit chat, dont stop and chit chat. 

 

Where would that issue, come into the western guys hating western women aspects and 'whore' vibes of somehow being used.. Doesnt make much sense to me if thats the case ??

Good point.  I don't know the OP, or at least I can't match the OP's ThaiVisa name to a person.  I think she knows me, since she commented on my appearance.  

 

I must admit there are some older western women here who are "creeped out" in seeing so many older guys going around with very young Thai women, and there are a few who have retired here with their husbands, only to have their husband run off with some young Thai honey during their first year here.  These women don't understand how these relationships can work, esp. when they can't see verbal communication between the older man and Thai woman and see vast differences in age, educational and financial backgrounds.  

 

As I said, I don't know the OP and so I don't know if this is a major concern of hers.  I will say that it happens.  As you may know, I help elderly expats who find themselves into difficulty, usually medical difficulty, and sometimes I'm asked by my lady friends how often these guys have been taken to the cleaners by Thai women.  While it does happen, it's not as common as people think, and I've seen many more examples where older western men have been well cared-for by loving Thai women and in some very nasty cases, taken advantage of these women -- making false promises of inheritances, widow's pensions, etc.  

[cloudhopper]

The only intellectual whores I have interacted with were university professors, lawyers, authors and health care professionals. Everyone else gave it to me for free. I have lived here for 17 years and was quite frankly shocked by the perception that there are so many older men openly contemptuous of foreign women here. That just hasn't been my experience, but everywhere you go - there you are. 

[jpinx]

35 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Someone pointed out on this thread that the OP may be "overthinking" this bit about whether she's acting as an "intellectual whore" by engaging in conversation with a western man near her old age  and providing something his Thai wife cannot.  What if they were having this conversation at a table with others around joining in the conversation during CEC Breakfast Club?  Would this be "whoring"?  I think not.  Now if they "made a date", met someplace private and kept this rendezvous-for-a-chat from his wife and the OP's friends, well, that probably crosses the line.  

 

 

Yes -- That was me, but I don't live in CM and I don't know anything about the specifics referenced.  I have lived the last 50 years all over the world in many non-English speaking countries and I have never seen this amount of social hand-holding for expats apart from in Spain.  Thailand must be bringing the worst out in people.  In Peru the family is everything and there are gringos (farang) there who are carefully tended in their elder years without any of the palavar talked about in this thread. 

[sharktooth]

men·o·pause

ˈmenəˌpôz/

noun

noun: menopause; plural noun: menopauses

1. the ceasing of menstruation.

   • the period in a woman's life (typically between 45 and 50 years of age) when this occurs.

[FolkGuitar]

Maybe the OP just wants ....

 

... and that is the crux of the matter. Six pages, 127 posts, and neither the men, nor the women seem to know what the OP wants.

Does she want to be left alone?

Does she want men to stop and talk with her?

If so, should the content be banal or serious?

Should the men try to arrange some sort of tryst?

Does the OP even know what it is that she wants?

We sure don't!

 

[Bill97]

So what's new? We got a guy asking for apartments within 15 kms of the city, what does he really want? Information for a research paper or someone to sort him?

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

  In Peru the family is everything and there are gringos (farang) there who are carefully tended in their elder years without any of the palavar talked about in this thread. 

 

Here also. Spent 3 days in hospital last year. Wife and her family took turns staying in the room with me. I did not need the extra care - but that is what they do. If you are family - you are family. Whatever your complexion.

[JaseTheBass]

There's a north American woman who stands in the street near my house most mornings waiting for her workplace to open. She forced a "good morning" out of me once, but I don't want to get to know her or be sociable with her. Not because she's a white woman, but because I don't feel the desire to be chatty with someone just because we have the same colour skin and speak a similar language.

My wife isn't as miserable as me and says she's quite pleasant.

Sent from my R2D2 using my C3P0 manservant

[amykat]

2 hours ago, Chicog said:

 

And yet ironically you claim to know all about farang men and Thai women with generalisations like this:

 

 

I'm sure some men here may hate Western women. Perhaps they've had bad experiences in the past.

I also know plenty of Thai women that are friends with farang women here, and where it is the case, are intelligent enough to realise that they are no threat to their own relationships with farang men.

I suspect you've seen a microcosm of the people around you and simply made ludicrous assumptions of your own.

 

Most of the Western women I know are smart enough to be able to judge people on their merits not on absurd stereotypes.

That's one of the reasons why I'm friends with them.

 

Chicog,  I made some very base generalizations for the purpose of this post!  This does not reflect my entire thoughts on life, people, or Thailand ..I would think you would be smart enough to know that!

 

I am not the enemy here.  I am not the OP either.  For those of you with any experience on this forum, you will have noticed the bias against women here, which was frankly horrifying some years ago,  when to simply post as a woman, a lynch mob would appear and rail down on you mercilessly!!  Just to say "hello, have a nice day" was enough.  When you experience that, you start to see what you fellow expat men are really like.  You also read, time and time again, their thoughts on Western women.  If you want to blame that on "bad experiences", well for every bad experience you men have had, I believe we women have also had a bad experience or two ourselves.

 

But like you just said, Chicog, I could blame that on an individual person, and not an entire GENDER from the WEST.  Yet, thousands and thousands of posters here, let that go by, and tell us that Thai women are different and better than us.  That we are now JEALOUS of you or them!!  Let me just say that that is a thought that has never crossed my mind. In all my life, I never dreamed to live a life of a Thai woman ..even if she has been so lucky as to become a "rich" older expat man's wife!!

 

Many of you seem to project your own feelings and thoughts on to us. Some of you didn't have much money and status in your old life and you couldn't get lovely young women, so you were jealous of men who could.  Now you come here and feel for the first time, that you have money and status ...but this is still SE Asia.  You play the game in front of each other but try to exclude us because we know the truth? We know it anyway, why not let us in and be friends?

 

Although I can't speak for other women here, but I would think it might be safe to assume that if a woman is living here, especially alone, that she might be a unique kind of woman, and you might want to think of that and give her some credit.  She also might have some liberal viewpoints about things that you do in Thailand and might not be the white witch from back home that you expect.

 

Regarding friendships and all of this ...everyone is not married and raising kids.  There are many men here who are in relationships with one or more people at the same time.  You basically socialize with men only.  You circle your wagons and shun expat women because you don't want to talk about what you are doing in front of us for one thing.  Especially newbie men, they are busy comparing notes and strategies like teenagers.  Some of us women know all about that and can help you too!!  We know every single thing the experienced MEN know about Thailand.

 

The 2nd reason you do this, I believe, is because of the "we hate Western women thing" you must stick to this to get peer approval. There are surely some among you who don't feel this way and would like our company, but you have your pack mentality and that wins out.  I believe there are some men who would like to date some Western women but would find if difficult due to this also, and if you really haven't given up on Thai relationships yet, maybe a Western woman will not date you.

 

 

[roo860]

Good point.  I don't know the OP, or at least I can't match the OP's ThaiVisa name to a person.  I think she knows me, since she commented on my appearance.  
 
I must admit there are some older western women here who are "creeped out" in seeing so many older guys going around with very young Thai women, and there are a few who have retired here with their husbands, only to have their husband run off with some young Thai honey during their first year here.  These women don't understand how these relationships can work, esp. when they can't see verbal communication between the older man and Thai woman and see vast differences in age, educational and financial backgrounds.  
 
As I said, I don't know the OP and so I don't know if this is a major concern of hers.  I will say that it happens.  As you may know, I help elderly expats who find themselves into difficulty, usually medical difficulty, and sometimes I'm asked by my lady friends how often these guys have been taken to the cleaners by Thai women.  While it does happen, it's not as common as people think, and I've seen many more examples where older western men have been well cared-for by loving Thai women and in some very nasty cases, taken advantage of these women -- making false promises of inheritances, widow's pensions, etc.  

Nancy, perhaps she saw the video promoting the CM club, the one when your husband could not get a word in edgeways.
[emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[canthai55]

Seems a lot of generalizations being posted here. Most times they are not true - even remotely. People are different - any statement like 'Western Men' or 'Western Women' will prove most times to be untrue. Take the individuals that you meet on a case by case basis. I for one never say things like 'Thai people are ... ' or any other sweeping declaration of intent directed at people you do not know. If you find that the people you meet are like this - get out and meet different people. The World is full of them.

[Chicog]

21 minutes ago, amykat said:

The 2nd reason you do this, I believe, is because of the "we hate Western women thing" you must stick to this to get peer approval. There are surely some among you who don't feel this way and would like our company, but you have your pack mentality and that wins out.  I believe there are some men who would like to date some Western women but would find if difficult due to this also, and if you really haven't given up on Thai relationships yet, maybe a Western woman will not date you.

 

 

 

And still the tiresome generalisations....

 

I think I can see why men don't want to date you, you seem to have an extremely negative opinion of them.

 

 

[sharktooth]

Reeks of a lonely old lady who hasn't had it for yonks and at this rate the closest she'll get will be brexit at Rimping.

[balo]

I don't know what the OP wants but I'm a man over 50 and we can have a coffee anytime .  I find all sorts of people interesting and I don't "judge" anyone. Why should I ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NancyL]

19 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

 

Nancy, perhaps she saw the video promoting the CM club, the one when your husband could not get a word in edgeways.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

 

 

Actually that was a video about Lanna Care Net, not the CM Expats Club.  I'm been involved with LCN much, much longer than I've been president of CEC.  In fact, it was because of what I saw in LCN, of older expat men leading isolated lives or not being connected with other English speakers in a healthy way (i.e. something besides sitting on a barstool and getting drunk together) that I've worked so hard to expand the programming of CEC, so expats can build their own personal networks and not have to rely on LCN (or random strangers in the checkout queue at Rimping) when they get into trouble.

[FolkGuitar]

"Western men are..."

"Western women are..."

Thai women are..."

No...

We don't see things are they are. We see things as we are.

 

[canuckamuck]

58 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Chicog,  I made some very base generalizations for the purpose of this post!  This does not reflect my entire thoughts on life, people, or Thailand ..I would think you would be smart enough to know that!

 

I am not the enemy here.  I am not the OP either.  For those of you with any experience on this forum, you will have noticed the bias against women here, which was frankly horrifying some years ago,  when to simply post as a woman, a lynch mob would appear and rail down on you mercilessly!!  Just to say "hello, have a nice day" was enough.  When you experience that, you start to see what you fellow expat men are really like.  You also read, time and time again, their thoughts on Western women.  If you want to blame that on "bad experiences", well for every bad experience you men have had, I believe we women have also had a bad experience or two ourselves.

 

But like you just said, Chicog, I could blame that on an individual person, and not an entire GENDER from the WEST.  Yet, thousands and thousands of posters here, let that go by, and tell us that Thai women are different and better than us.  That we are now JEALOUS of you or them!!  Let me just say that that is a thought that has never crossed my mind. In all my life, I never dreamed to live a life of a Thai woman ..even if she has been so lucky as to become a "rich" older expat man's wife!!

 

Many of you seem to project your own feelings and thoughts on to us. Some of you didn't have much money and status in your old life and you couldn't get lovely young women, so you were jealous of men who could.  Now you come here and feel for the first time, that you have money and status ...but this is still SE Asia.  You play the game in front of each other but try to exclude us because we know the truth? We know it anyway, why not let us in and be friends?

 

Although I can't speak for other women here, but I would think it might be safe to assume that if a woman is living here, especially alone, that she might be a unique kind of woman, and you might want to think of that and give her some credit.  She also might have some liberal viewpoints about things that you do in Thailand and might not be the white witch from back home that you expect.

 

Regarding friendships and all of this ...everyone is not married and raising kids.  There are many men here who are in relationships with one or more people at the same time.  You basically socialize with men only.  You circle your wagons and shun expat women because you don't want to talk about what you are doing in front of us for one thing.  Especially newbie men, they are busy comparing notes and strategies like teenagers.  Some of us women know all about that and can help you too!!  We know every single thing the experienced MEN know about Thailand.

 

The 2nd reason you do this, I believe, is because of the "we hate Western women thing" you must stick to this to get peer approval. There are surely some among you who don't feel this way and would like our company, but you have your pack mentality and that wins out.  I believe there are some men who would like to date some Western women but would find if difficult due to this also, and if you really haven't given up on Thai relationships yet, maybe a Western woman will not date you.

 

 

That was quite refreshing. Some generalizing in there sure, but true just the same.

 

 

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

Maybe the OP just wants to be left alone when she's out-and-about running errands and not feel compelled to engage in chit-chat with strangers, just because women are expected to be nice and welcoming.

 

If she was in the mood to chat with strangers in English, she could go to Ladies Lunch or a CEC meeting or Computer Club or any of the hundreds of other ways expats meet-up here.

 

On the flip-side, you have the rather sad observation of Buddhalady, who commented that the closest thing to "the Local" in her neighborhood was a place where the Thai wives sat around one table, the western guys at another and she, in the mood for a nice chat, felt welcome in neither world.  She needs to find another place to enjoy a pint.  Seems the men in her 'hood perhaps feel that older western women shouldn't be welcome here.  They certainly aren't welcoming them.

You are contradicting yourself big time.

 

First you say she may want to be left alone and not feel compelled to engage in chit-chat with strangers just because women are expected to be nice and welcoming, then you say; seems the men in her neighbourhood are not welcoming because she`s an older woman. If the men do approach her and try to be socialable they maybe imposing themselves on her and if they don`t it`s because they feel older western women shouldn`t be here.  So according to you it`s a no win situation.

 

So for the third time I ask, what are older western women expecting when they decide to stay in Thailand?

[CMBob]

22 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

So for the third time I ask, what are older western women expecting when they decide to stay in Thailand?

 

Ignoring the purely sexual side of things, why should older/younger western women expect anything different than what older/younger western men expect? 

[rijb]

1 hour ago, JaseTheBass said:

There's a north American woman who stands in the street near my house most mornings waiting for her workplace to open. She forced a "good morning" out of me once, but I don't want to get to know her or be sociable with her. Not because she's a white woman, but because I don't feel the desire to be chatty with someone just because we have the same colour skin and speak a similar language.

My wife isn't as miserable as me and says she's quite pleasant.

Sent from my R2D2 using my C3P0 manservant
 

 

Couldn't you, at least, do the secret handshake for white people?

 

[amykat]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Seems a lot of generalizations being posted here. Most times they are not true - even remotely. People are different - any statement like 'Western Men' or 'Western Women' will prove most times to be untrue. Take the individuals that you meet on a case by case basis. I for one never say things like 'Thai people are ... ' or any other sweeping declaration of intent directed at people you do not know. If you find that the people you meet are like this - get out and meet different people. The World is full of them.

 

Many of you keep harping on this.   I am writing a few paragraphs about large groups of people in GENERAL, it therefore requires, GENERALIZATIONS. 

 

Most Western women come from Western countries.  That is a true statement Mr. "most statements will prove to be untrue"

Most Western people adhere to Western culture

Most Western people like Western food

Most Western people like some forms of Western music

Most Western people like some forms of Western literature

 

Could you try to add something of substance??

 

[jpinx]

8 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Many of you keep harping on this.   I am writing a few paragraphs about large groups of people in GENERAL, it therefore requires, GENERALIZATIONS. 

 

Most Western women come from Western countries.  That is a true statement Mr. "most statements will prove to be untrue"

Most Western people adhere to Western culture

Most Western people like Western food

Most Western people like some forms of Western music

Most Western people like some forms of Western literature

 

Could you try to add something of substance??

 

You can generalise, or you can talk about an individual.  What "substance" do you expect?  Everyone is different and for every person posting in here with these generalised negative attitudes, there are probably 10 very happy people who have better things to do than sit at a keyboard

[buddhalady]

Cyberfarang - let me try to answer your question ...

 

Firstly, one group of older Western women may have decided, along with their partners or husbands, to relocate to Thailand as they're sick to death of developments in their home countries. Many may be newly retired and have savings for exactly that, and early retirees  may have benefited from capital gains after selling their property.  Life being life, inactivity and the price of booze here might have meant they were widowed earlier than they might have expected or, worse still,  the husband might have succumbed to younger, more exotic charms! Rare, I believe, but it does happen.

 

Being Western, and having been brought up to be kind and supportive to neighbours and those in trouble or grief, newly single Western women might not want to return to the country they left because they hated it when they left and hated it even more since they've become used to living here. However, expecting any kindness, friendship, support etc, seems to be a waste of time if this thread is an example of responses to genuine concerns. The shock of rejection can result in even more misery.

 

The general opinion of the majority of posters on this thread seems to be that those of us in that situation should immediately go back where we came from, leaving our homes, maybe our pets and any chance of getting a new life in a familiar, warm, inexpensive  location.

 

As regards single women who decide to come to Thailand for whatever reason, including a dislike of the countries of their birth, why should they not be able to have a circle of friends and acquaintances of both sexes? Female independence is a relatively new phenomenon, could it possibly be that the male contingent here resents womens' freedoms to do what they've done? To me it says a lot about the quality of male expats here nowadays - sad, because  when I first came here over 10 years ago, the community was a great deal different.

 

One more point - today's global village is open to all, including women with 50 or so years behind them who've raised their children, had a career, perhaps  been divorced and decided to make a new life in a very different country. If they don't know Thailand, it's too easy to believe the hype and give it a try. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by buddhalady
further thoughts on the subject!

[amykat]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

You can generalise, or you can talk about an individual.  What "substance" do you expect?  Everyone is different and for every person posting in here with these generalised negative attitudes, there are probably 10 very happy people who have better things to do than sit at a keyboard

 

Are you kidding me?  When one talks about an individual, one writes as such. When one wants to discuss a group of people, ones writes in the appropriate manner. I am writing in the appropriate manner for the topic at hand.  

 

If you have better things to do, then why are you here??

 

I am NOT posting with a negative attitude. I have a positive attitude.  If you don't like reality that is not my problem.

[Chicog]

 

 

5 minutes ago, amykat said:

I am NOT posting with a negative attitude. I have a positive attitude.  If you don't like reality that is not my problem.

 

Without wishing to piss on your strawberries, that's exactly what you're doing. Maybe you just don't see it.

 

You seem to be an adherent to the old adage of "Give a dog a bad name and hang him"".

 

 

[jpinx]

28 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Many of you keep harping on this.   I am writing a few paragraphs about large groups of people in GENERAL, it therefore requires, GENERALIZATIONS. 

 

Most Western women come from Western countries.  That is a true statement Mr. "most statements will prove to be untrue"

Most Western people adhere to Western culture

Most Western people like Western food

Most Western people like some forms of Western music

Most Western people like some forms of Western literature

 

Could you try to add something of substance??

 

 

11 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Are you kidding me?  When one talks about an individual, one writes as such. When one wants to discuss a group of people, ones writes in the appropriate manner. I am writing in the appropriate manner for the topic at hand.  

 

If you have better things to do, then why are you here??

 

I am NOT posting with a negative attitude. I have a positive attitude.  If you don't like reality that is not my problem.

Ah -- now it starts to become clear.  For "western" substitute "american" maybe?

I'm here watching TV and following the Brexit pantomime discussion.  You?

There were so many vague generalisations in that post quoted it's hard to know where to begin.  Example - what is typically "Western food" ?

I'm not being argumentative, but you asked for "substance" :)

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by jpinx

[FolkGuitar]

11 minutes ago, buddhalady said:

As regards single women who decide to come to Thailand for whatever reason, including a dislike of the countries of their birth, why should they not be able to have a circle of friends and acquaintances of both sexes?

 

THAT seems to be at odds with what the OP stated in her post, doesn't it? At least, it would appear to be, if I could distill the intent of her post.