Brexit comes with conditions but can be reversed - EU parliament

[Enoon]

8 hours ago, DoctorG said:

I am yet to see a good analysis of what would happen if the UK just said "screw you, we are out now". Anybody?

 

Since the catastrophe of WW2 the main concern of British policymakers has been "Managing Decline".

 

That has not changed.

 

Gibbons famously wrote "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".

 

Britains imperial tragedy is playing out differently:  "The History of the Fall and Decline of the British Empire".

 

It would accelerate the decline such that British policymakers would have to abandon their efforts to "manage" and instead resort to "Survival Strategies".  Indeed "British" policymakers would swiftly disappear.

 

The remnant of what was once the greatest of empires would reach its inevitable destination a lot sooner.

 

A destination that I had optimistically thought would be reached sometime after I was dead. 

 

It seems that I was wrong in my optimism........a perennial failing of mine.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Enoon

[Scouse123]

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

Or to no pay at all and no UK benefits which, apparently, some might still be entitled to post-Brexit. 

 

That 3 million includes spouses, kids, beggars, Big Issue sellers etc. I suspect that, of the working folks among those 3 million, a very large proportion are only in work because they're in UK and would be on the scrapheap in their home countries.

Well said.

[fasteddie]

Sorry, can't stop to chat, still frantically winding my clock back 40yrs.

[Khun Han]

44 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

the good thing is we will see in a short future, how it will be. And I not said we are happy if anybody leaves, 

You should listen to your own people MOP and HOL 

and people with money will always make money, they don´t need a succesful country, they can bet on raising or falling, the normal people and companies can´t. We don´t wish anybody in the UK anything bad, but we will not give you anything for free, this is only what the UK citizen should respect.

 

And neither will we give you anything for free. So all that's left to do is sort out a deal which benefits both parties .

[whatawonderfulday]

Now here is an interesting scenario, full of ifs and buts I grant you but its a potential.  It appears from some quarters that Brexit could be reversed for which I suspect that currently there could well be a tide of opinion that it should be.  The SNP and indeed many Scots who voted against independence in the last referendum are now going with the argument that because of Brexit there has been a material change.

 

So given the SNP are arguing that they deserve independence because of that material change, then what if at the end of the day it did not happen ? Would the nationalists accept that the status quo of 2014 was  the precedent or would they disregard it and show their true colours in going for independence come what may ?

 

Lets assume that for some reason Teresa May, the unelected PM and her government suffers a vote of no confidence within the next 2 years.  The UK go to the polls again and the winning party gains the majority on, not only on normal manifesto commitments but also on the policy that they will reverse Brexit ( which appears allowable).  The British people will have spoken again. Of course the die hard Scots who are, and have been pushing for independence for 300 years will still come up with some reason for independence anyway. However I think many of the Scots, who did not want to leave the EU, along with the remaining folk in Britain who now believe leaving is not such a good idea, will be pleasantly relieved.

 

Just a thought. I and no one knows the answers to this at the moment but hopefully this will prompt some interesting debate.

Edited March 30, 2017 by whatawonderfulday

[Khon Kaen Dave]

The principles of accounting, by Mr Macawber

Income 20 shillings, expenditure 19/6 result happiness.

Income 20 shillings, expenditure 20/6 result misery .

 Will that do for the Op that asked another OP if he understood the principles of accounting?

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Sorry, can't stop to chat, still frantically winding my clock back 40yrs.

for everyone else it was an hour 

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Now here is an interesting scenario, full of ifs and buts I grant you but its a potential.  It appears from some quarters that Brexit could be reversed for which I suspect that currently there could well be a tide of opinion that it should be.  The SNP and indeed many Scots who voted against independence in the last referendum are now going with the argument that because of Brexit there has been a material change.

 

So given the SNP are arguing that they deserve independence because of that material change, then what if at the end of the day it did not happen ? Would the nationalists accept that the status quo of 2014 was  the precedent or would they disregard it and show their true colours in going for independence come what may ?

 

Lets assume that for some reason Teresa May, the unelected PM and her government suffers a vote of no confidence within the next 2 years.  The UK go to the polls again and the winning party gains the majority on, not only on normal manifesto commitments but also on the policy that they will reverse Brexit ( which appears allowable).  The British people will have spoken again. Of course the die hard Scots who are, and have been pushing for independence for 300 years will still come up with some reason for independence anyway. However I think many of the Scots, who did not want to leave the EU, along with the remaining folk in Britain who now believe leaving is not such a good idea, will be pleasantly relieved.

 

Just a thought. I and no one knows the answers to this at the moment but hopefully this will prompt some interesting debate.

The SNP's grip in Westminster would be decimated if this ever materialized. They'd be a busted flush.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

11 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Ah I see that you dodged the rule of law. Perhaps you should ask Farage about accounts after all he is an MEP and yet has one of the worst attendance records in the EU Parliament quite apart from attending 1 out of 42 meetings of a committee to which he was appointed. What a shame that our elected representatives don't take a more serious approach to this scandal but then Farage is now being accused of misuse of expenses. 

You want to check the records of Gordon Brown before you start pointing fingers. After finally being kicked out of No.10 to retiring in 2015 and continuing as United Nations Special Envoy for Global Education (a job he started doing in 2012) he had one of the worst attendance records at the HoC.

The Rule of Law according to ECJ in Luxembourg, no thanks, had enough of that s#it.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Now here is an interesting scenario, full of ifs and buts I grant you but its a potential.  It appears from some quarters that Brexit could be reversed for which I suspect that currently there could well be a tide of opinion that it should be.  The SNP and indeed many Scots who voted against independence in the last referendum are now going with the argument that because of Brexit there has been a material change.

 

So given the SNP are arguing that they deserve independence because of that material change, then what if at the end of the day it did not happen ? Would the nationalists accept that the status quo of 2014 was  the precedent or would they disregard it and show their true colours in going for independence come what may ?

 

Lets assume that for some reason Teresa May, the unelected PM and her government suffers a vote of no confidence within the next 2 years.  The UK go to the polls again and the winning party gains the majority on, not only on normal manifesto commitments but also on the policy that they will reverse Brexit ( which appears allowable).  The British people will have spoken again. Of course the die hard Scots who are, and have been pushing for independence for 300 years will still come up with some reason for independence anyway. However I think many of the Scots, who did not want to leave the EU, along with the remaining folk in Britain who now believe leaving is not such a good idea, will be pleasantly relieved.

 

Just a thought. I and no one knows the answers to this at the moment but hopefully this will prompt some interesting debate.

I have seen some suggestion from Brussels that a "reversal" is possible in some pro-EU papers, but all the articles mention that it can only happen with the agreement of all 27 EU States. Barnier is against even talking about it.

There is a fairly strong feeling that if May were to call a General Election against Corbyn, Farron and Sturgeon she would get a massive majority.

Sturgeon to declare UDI, she might be power mad but even she isn't that crazy

Edited March 30, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[pitrevie]

23 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You want to check the records of Gordon Brown before you start pointing fingers. After finally being kicked out of No.10 to retiring in 2015 and continuing as United Nations Special Envoy for Global Education (a job he started doing in 2012) he had one of the worst attendance records at the HoC.

The Rule of Law according to ECJ in Luxembourg, no thanks, had enough of that s#it.

 

 

 

Nope the rule of law according to the UK supreme court.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

4 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

the good thing is we will see in a short future, how it will be. And I not said we are happy if anybody leaves, 

You should listen to your own people MOP and HOL 

and people with money will always make money, they don´t need a succesful country, they can bet on raising or falling, the normal people and companies can´t. We don´t wish anybody in the UK anything bad, but we will not give you anything for free, this is only what the UK citizen should respect.

I am guessing but it would seem you are most likely from one of the eastern block (ex- Warsaw Pact countries, or a bit of) that joined the EU fairly recently. I can understand why you would be sorry to see us go, probably on two counts.

1/ Because you will no longer be allowed to live and work in the UK.

2/ Your country has been getting massive "investment" from the EU, to which the UK is one of only 6 contributing countries, and the 2nd biggest.

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

48 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Nope the rule of law according to the UK supreme court.

Err, and when haven't we, and without whinging on and on?

[evadgib]

Here's the White Paper:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/david-davis-commons-statement-on-the-great-repeal-bill-white-paper

[pitrevie]

8 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Err, and when haven't we, and without whinging on and on?

You obviously have a short memory. You reject the jurisdiction of the ECJ and only recently Brexiters were up in arms regarding our own supreme court rulings. You remember when that lady wanted to bypass our sovereign parliament and use that democratic method called the royal prerogative  The supreme court ruled otherwise which didn't meet with the approval of Brexiters. 

 

Perhaps we need to abolish the British courts as well as they have not found favour with Brexiters and replace them with peoples courts. We could fill them full of UKIP members I am sure that would then meet with your approval. 

 

Nigel Farage Warns Of Untold "Public Anger" After UK High Court Decision.

 

Brexit campaigner Gina Miller may be forced to flee the UK after death threats

 

The most senior Supreme Court judge has opened the latest stage of the legal battle over Brexit with a warning about the threats and violence that have been directed at some of those involved in the case.

 

UK court says Brexit needs parliament's approval

 

No you are quite right some people don't whinge on and on but take it to another level.

 

 

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

You obviously have a short memory. You reject the jurisdiction of the ECJ and only recently Brexiters were up in arms regarding our own supreme court rulings. You remember when that lady wanted to bypass our sovereign parliament and use that democratic method called the royal prerogative  The supreme court ruled otherwise which didn't meet with the approval of Brexiters. 

 

Perhaps we need to abolish the British courts as well as they have not found favour with Brexiters and replace them with peoples courts. We could fill them full of UKIP members I am sure that would then meet with your approval. 

 

Nigel Farage Warns Of Untold "Public Anger" After UK High Court Decision.

 

Brexit campaigner Gina Miller may be forced to flee the UK after death threats

 

The most senior Supreme Court judge has opened the latest stage of the legal battle over Brexit with a warning about the threats and violence that have been directed at some of those involved in the case.

 

UK court says Brexit needs parliament's approval

 

No you are quite right some people don't whinge on and on but take it to another level.

 

 

The challenge was nonetheless accepted.

 

How about following their fine example?

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by evadgib

[pitrevie]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The challenge to which you refer were nonetheless accepted.

 

How about doing same?

 

That reply doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Death threats were received by those involved and its quite clear that many Brexiters resented our own Parliament making the decision and would have preferred the appointed PM to make the decision based on some royal instrument how democratic was that. So its no good rejecting the EU court if you then reject our own Supreme court because they rule against you. Just what court decisions are you prepared to accept? It had nothing to do with a challenge it was about the rule of law.

 

As for doing the same you obliviously don't read many posts on this forum. Go back to the very days following the vote last year and you will find posts from me stating that like all the EU leaders I accepted the result of the EU referendum and that we should get on with it as soon as possible. Indeed at the time there was a marked reluctance to do just that and its taken us almost a year to fire the starting gun. Unlike Brexiter Farage who placed conditions on accepting the decision or Bill Cash who stated that he would reject any decision that went against him, I accepted it.

 

 

[evadgib]

31 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

That reply doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Death threats were received by those involved and its quite clear that many Brexiters resented our own Parliament making the decision and would have preferred the appointed PM to make the decision based on some royal instrument how democratic was that. So its no good rejecting the EU court if you then reject our own Supreme court because they rule against you. Just what court decisions are you prepared to accept? It had nothing to do with a challenge it was about the rule of law.

 

As for doing the same you obliviously don't read many posts on this forum. Go back to the very days following the vote last year and you will find posts from me stating that like all the EU leaders I accepted the result of the EU referendum and that we should get on with it as soon as possible. Indeed at the time there was a marked reluctance to do just that and its taken us almost a year to fire the starting gun. Unlike Brexiter Farage who placed conditions on accepting the decision or Bill Cash who stated that he would reject any decision that went against him, I accepted it.

 

 

"No!" ?

Fancy that! 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by evadgib

[pitrevie]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Fancy that; a 'NO!' 

And fancy that the usual reasoned reply from you. 

[nauseus]

15 hours ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

The principles of accounting, by Mr Macawber

Income 20 shillings, expenditure 19/6 result happiness.

Income 20 shillings, expenditure 20/6 result misery .

 Will that do for the Op that asked another OP if he understood the principles of accounting?

Well you said it...I asked someone else..so no.

[Thongkorn]

I can remember Britain joining the common market. They gave us nothing. So why do we have to pay to get out. Britain has been in NATO since 1947 . Paying for Europes protection. Paying to re Build Europe that Germany destroyed. Just say walk away and say kiss my arse to them. let's stop being pc and live in the real Free world.

[evadgib]

40 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

And fancy that the usual reasoned reply from you. 

No reverse in this latest update:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/certainty-and-stability-for-uk-businesses-as-negotiations-begin-on-new-relationship-with-europe

Edited March 31, 2017 by evadgib

[pitrevie]

27 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No reverse in this latest update:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/certainty-and-stability-for-uk-businesses-as-negotiations-begin-on-new-relationship-with-europe

You really do need to read some of the responses on this forum such as the one right before yours. Guess what he voted for. Thankfully the people at the sharp end have a better grasp of reality.

[evadgib]

14 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

You really do need to read some of the responses on this forum such as the one right before yours. Guess what he voted for. Thankfully the people at the sharp end have a better grasp of reality.

Posting when you're online is the digital equivalent of putting a mirror in  hazel  when there's a Robin about 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by evadgib

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

15 hours ago, pitrevie said:

I accepted it.

Well, you could have fooled me!

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 3/30/2017 at 4:09 PM, chickenrunCM said:

as a citizen of one of the remaining countrys in the EU, I have to say that you have the rights to leave the EU, but by the written rules you signed before.

And acceppt that there are 48 % of British citizen who are voted for remain, and not been so stupid to believe the lies of the Brexit campain. This people will vote in great Britian again and then may be the majority change dramaticly.

1. You not really believe that Great Britain will get a better deal as they have during their membership?

It´s like you get divorced and you not really expect your partner say, yes take the house, the bank accounts, the yacht and I will take the kid´s, the loans and will care about the parents in law also. 

2. You will start nearly from 0, because after 2 years you will not have any trade contract with any country all over the world, every contract you have to negotiate new, have to agreed by both parlaments and put into your law. It will take you more than 10 years to be on the same level like today. 

3. Your export companies will suffer because moost of the export goes to the EU. And it will not be so easy to find other country who are waiting for your cars and so on, if you not have even a trade contract with this countrys. 

4. Companies will leave Great Britan, because they not get any support of the EU and it will be easier for them to prodice and trade if they are in the EU.

5. Your university will loose billions of EU support, what will effect the quality of their programs, you will have less foreign students and less income, British students will ahve to pay now if they study anywhere in the EU. 

6. Most of the 3 million EU workers in GB are there for 5 years or more in 2 years, so they can stay anyway by Brisith law. You can´t force them to leave!

7. Your import will become dramatticly expensive (foods, parts for production, etc.) because of higher transport costs, lower value of the pound, much more time for delivery because of border controll. You need to check every truck, every suitcase at customs, you will have a hard border between both Irelands. 

8. If You are going for holidays, you will wait for hours at the border, you need a Schengen Visa to enter the EU, what costs you 65 Euro each time. No weekend flight to Paris, no stag night in Prag, no sunbathing in Spain.

But on the other side you will get less tourist because it´s not comfortable to travel to Great Britan, tourist will not be covered by their helthcare if something happen in Great Britan.

 

And as you claim the right to decide whether or not to stay in the EU, give Ireland and Scottland the same right! And not block their wish for a new poll about leaving Great britain and stay in the EU.

 

Anybody who believe that Great Britain will gain anything positive from the Brexit should let check his brain,

there will be only negative results in the next 20 years, and for sure much more pain for Great Britain. You can´t really believe that 

because you are leaving the world stops to turn. 

 

My compassion is with the people who have voted to remain in the EU and now have to bear the same consequences

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apart from what was very well said in Post: 29. do you really think Spain, France, Italy etc want to stop UK tourists visiting their countries with expensive visas? It is as likely as the Germans deciding not to sell cars to the UK...

Talking about the Leave side telling porkies, how about some of the utter scare tactics from the Remain lot of lying toads.

If you love the EU, then you should set up a "Rescue Fund" so all the Remoaners can send you what would have been their (48% of € 12bn) contribution of the UK's EU payment every year.

All the rubbish about EU funding is just nonsense, that is included in the figures, we will still have that money, plus the "NET"  € 12bn over and above that we pay in...

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback
typo

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 3/30/2017 at 4:51 PM, Enoon said:

 

Since the catastrophe of WW2 the main concern of British policymakers has been "Managing Decline".

 

That has not changed.

 

Gibbons famously wrote "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".

 

Britains imperial tragedy is playing out differently:  "The History of the Fall and Decline of the British Empire".

 

It would accelerate the decline such that British policymakers would have to abandon their efforts to "manage" and instead resort to "Survival Strategies".  Indeed "British" policymakers would swiftly disappear.

 

The remnant of what was once the greatest of empires would reach its inevitable destination a lot sooner.

 

A destination that I had optimistically thought would be reached sometime after I was dead. 

 

It seems that I was wrong in my optimism........a perennial failing of mine.

 

 

 

 

 

Have a little faith, the UK is still prosperous despite bankrupting itself defending democracy in Europe in two world wars, and the efforts of several socialist governments since.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

The funniest thing I read today was that Cameron said in a speech on Thursday: "I never really liked the EU."

God bless!

[beautifulthailand99]

On 30/03/2017 at 4:53 AM, MartinL said:

Or to no pay at all and no UK benefits which, apparently, some might still be entitled to post-Brexit. 

 

That 3 million includes spouses, kids, beggars, Big Issue sellers etc. I suspect that, of the working folks among those 3 million, a very large proportion are only in work because they're in UK and would be on the scrapheap in their home countries.

 

You're mistaking the mass of low-rent , foreigner hating , beer swilling , sex-pat bar stool-patriot British scumbags in the Land Of Smiles with the huge amount of hard working , decent , family-oriented tax paying law-abiding EU citizens in the UK.

Edited March 31, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[MartinL]

5 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

You're mistaking the mass of low-rent , foreigner hating , beer swilling , sex-pat bar stool-patriot British scumbags in the Land Of Smiles with the huge amount of hard working , decent , family-oriented tax paying law-abiding EU citizens in the UK.

 

Strange, I don't know any Britons in Thailand like that. You must move in far sleazier circles than I do.