U.S. Navy strike group to move toward Korean peninsula - U.S. official

[baboon]

18 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

The visa is not too hard, but you have to be on a tour.  And there are lots of restrictions.  Lots. 

 

I was suppose to go a few weeks ago, but backed out.  Part of an international team going there to play ice hockey.  It wasn't cheap!

 

 

You missed out. The trip is worth every penny.

[baboon]

18 hours ago, NanLaew said:

From 1946-48 saw two years of UN-led negotiations that went nowhere due to Chinese and Russian obfuscation (does that ring a bell?). Only after the Soviet Union and US administrative and military occupations departed the peninsula in 1948, Kim Il Sung founded his totalitarian regime and the US Congress granted a 2-year aid package, only then did the Chinese-inspired North chose to invade the south in the summer of 1950.

 

Now stop defending the indefensible.

Only after the Republic of Korea was formed and the delightful Rhee Syngman installed as its leader, was the DPRK formed.

[baboon]

15 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

North Korea is officially recognized by the UN.  Good point.

No it isn't. A country of homogeneous people was divided against its will by foreign occupation forces. Seats at the UN do not make the actions of the said occupation forces correct.

[baboon]

15 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

......and they put forth some good athletes.  Their soccer team qualified for a recent World Cup.

 

                  Can't say the same for their cuisine.  I watched a YT video where two farang visitors went out with their 2 N.Korean minders to have a cook-out.  The N.Korean guy put some potatoes on a cement sidewalk, poured lighter fluid on them, dropped a match, and voila!......... a few minutes later, baked potatoes a la Kim.  Am not sure whether they had catsup also.

 

 

You weren't paying much attention, then. That is what they do with clams.

[Stargeezr]

My suggestion to Baboon is to go to North Korea for a visit, take Dennis Rodman with you and have him show you around the country with the nut job leader.  Go for it Baboon, and if you make it in and out alive,let us all know  what NK is really like. Maybe you would have your eyes opened a lot with a trip like that.  If NK keeps

launching missiles, maybe the US fleet can try out their lazer equipment on knocking them out of the sky.

Geezer

[kowpot]

7 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

               Let's not lose sight of the fact that it's the leadership cadre who are the bad guys.

The general public are just brainwashed dummies (or prisoners, depending), and don't deserve to get vaporized in a Nuke attack.

I totally agree.  

[baboon]

4 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

My suggestion t Baboon is to go toNorth Korea for a visit, take Dennis Rodman with you and have him show

you around the country with the nut job leader.  Gofor it Baboon, and if you make it in and out alive,let us all

know  what NK is really like. Maybe you would have your eyes opened a lot with a trip like that.  If NK keeps

launching missles, maybe the US fleet can try out their lazer equipment on knocking them out of the sky.

Geezer

You've not been following the thread, have you? I HAVE been there and am alive and well. Unless I am a figment of the imagination, that is...

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, baboon said:

You weren't paying much attention, then. That is what they do with clams.

It was potatoes.  

 

Baboon, if you don't mind me asking, what is your connection/relation to N.Korea? 

[baboon]

Just now, boomerangutang said:

It was potatoes.  

 

Baboon, if you don't mind me asking, what is your connection/relation to N.Korea? 

Connection? None whatsoever. I am merely an interested party keen to find out the other side of the story.

[kowpot]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

You've not been following the thread, have you? I HAVE been there and am alive and well. Unless I am a figment of the imagination, that is...

Can you prove that you have been there?

 

How about showing a copy of your visa.

The fact that you show an avatar of a North Korean flag only means that you may be a sympathiser or a full fledged communist, I don't know. But, it is not proof.  

Edited April 11, 2017 by kowpot

[Scott]

Nobody has to prove anything.  

 

Please stay on topic.  

[baboon]

12 minutes ago, kowpot said:

Can you prove that you have been there?

 

How about showing a copy of your visa.

That I'm afraid I can't do. My Tourist Card was issued by the Embassy in Beijing and was taken away from me when I left the country, which I was well miffed about.

Of course the lucky gits who had their visas issued in London got a proper visa stuck in their passports AND the In / Out stamps...

 

I'll tell you a story from the place, though, which you can choose to believe or not, but it did happen:

We had just finished our Pueblo visit and were making our way back to the minibus through a crowd of Koreans. I was arguing that the female guide was not actually a real soldier to one of the group.

There was a quiet Korean voice in my ear. It said "You are right. She is not a soldier." I looked around but it was impossible to determine who the speaker was. It was pretty freaky...

Edited April 11, 2017 by baboon

[thaihome]

There is no doubt the the Korean pensulia was divided into two countries due to the actions of the Soviet Union and the US in the very early days of the post WWII cold war with no regard for the wishes of the majority of the Korean people. Numerous rebellions and purges occurred on both sides of the divide as power was consolidated by undemocratic factions on both sides of the divide. Thousands were killed in the immediate aftermath of WWII, followed by millions killed in North Korea's attempt to unify the pensulia. 

 

This history, though both interesting and shameful, has little to do with the situation as it evolved to what it today. To claim that the Korean people as a whole  by being wronged (by both foreign powers and internal factions) 70 years ago in the formation of two countries somehow justifies the North Korean regime's complete disregard for the welfare of its people  and its belligerent behavior in order for a specfic faction to stay in power is disgenous to an extreme. 

TH 

 

[mrwebb8825]

Lip service is useless. My fear is that China, now being pressured from an administration with balls to back up idle threats may just push the little fat man into doing something stupid so that they do not bear the brunt of retaliatory action.

The US still has the technology that created "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" that brought the Japanese back to reality. We also have high altitude surveillance so that we know exactly when the little fat man is standing in his perch watching his minions parade by in a show of false power.

All it would take is 1 drop right in the middle of his ego parade to take out a good 90% of his military leaders along with him. China wouldn't dare interfere for fear of a 2nd or 3rd or 100th such bomb being flown around at high altitudes over Beijing et al.

Time for talking about N. Korea is over, to quote the SoS.

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

 

All it would take is 1 drop right in the middle of his ego parade to take out a good 90% of his military leaders along with him. China wouldn't dare interfere for fear of a 2nd or 3rd or 100th such bomb being flown around at high altitudes over Beijing et al.

Time for talking about N. Korea is over, to quote the SoS.

Indeed. Because nobody in the DPRK leadership will have ever thought to consider such a scenario.

[thaihome]

46 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Lip service is useless. My fear is that China, now being pressured from an administration with balls to back up idle threats may just push the little fat man into doing something stupid so that they do not bear the brunt of retaliatory action.

The US still has the technology that created "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" that brought the Japanese back to reality. We also have high altitude surveillance so that we know exactly when the little fat man is standing in his perch watching his minions parade by in a show of false power.

All it would take is 1 drop right in the middle of his ego parade to take out a good 90% of his military leaders along with him. China wouldn't dare interfere for fear of a 2nd or 3rd or 100th such bomb being flown around at high altitudes over Beijing et al.

Time for talking about N. Korea is over, to quote the SoS.

Within 1 hour a good part of Seoul would be leveled and likely 10's of thousands would be dead. You might want to so some research how how close to border Seoul is and what artillery and missiles N. Korea has pointed at it.

TH 

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Lip service is useless. My fear is that China, now being pressured from an administration with balls to back up idle threats may just push the little fat man into doing something stupid so that they do not bear the brunt of retaliatory action.

The US still has the technology that created "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" that brought the Japanese back to reality. We also have high altitude surveillance so that we know exactly when the little fat man is standing in his perch watching his minions parade by in a show of false power.

All it would take is 1 drop right in the middle of his ego parade to take out a good 90% of his military leaders along with him. China wouldn't dare interfere for fear of a 2nd or 3rd or 100th such bomb being flown around at high altitudes over Beijing et al.

Time for talking about N. Korea is over, to quote the SoS.

                   Korean generals (and there are many) rehearse that, and other scenarios, daily.  You can take a shot at the middle of a hornets nest with a shotgun, and you'll likely kill the queen hornet, but that's not going to stop the surviving fighter hornets from going apeshit in response.

 

                        P.S. the US tried several times to kill Castro, and he was a short distance from Florida.  Uncle Sam struck out each time.  Didn't even draw blood.   Similar for Ortega in Nicaragua.

 

                         But times change, and Mr Webb is right.  The US could target Fat Boy at one of his official functions - with one or more Tomahawks, and it would probably get the job done.  However, I think N.Korea needs to clean house from within.   It may take a page from Thailand's history, and have a coup d'etat.   Thailand leads the world in # of coups.  

[thaihome]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

            ...It may take a page from Thailand's history, and have a coup d'etat.   Thailand leads the world in # of coups.  

Actually it appears Thailand is a somewhat distant third ?

https://www.quora.com/What-country-has-had-more-coups-and-coups-detats-than-any-other

TH 

[ilostmypassword]

47 minutes ago, thaihome said:

Within 1 hour a good part of Seoul would be leveled and likely 10's of thousands would be dead. You might want to so some research how how close to border Seoul is and what artillery and missiles N. Korea has pointed at it.

TH 

North Korea also has nuclear weapons and the USA has almos 30,000 troops - or should I say hostages -there.

[hawker9000]

Connection? None whatsoever. I am merely an interested party keen to find out the other side of the story.

IOW, a sympathizer pretending to not be a sympathizer. Got it.

[Gene1960]

8 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

North Korea also has nuclear weapons and the USA has almos 30,000 troops - or should I say hostages -there.

So what? Anything to make Trump popular with the cool liberal crowd.  Trump is almost forgiven already for his Russian dealings.

Look how Hillary supporters on the board have been cheerleading for Trump since the missile attack in Syria. Trump says to the militant neoconservative :
'We be one blood, thou and I', (Mowgli ) and everyone is happy to feel united.

[Gene1960]

There is a substantial risk that N.Korea will deliver the nukes to the USA soil even before those pesky Russkie did.

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

North Korea also has nuclear weapons and the USA has almos 30,000 troops - or should I say hostages -there.

You have a warped perception about US troops.  All are volunteers and all are dedicated to their job.  To say they are hostages is a horrible thing to say.  I'm sure they wouldn't agree with you. 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

You have a warped perception about US troops.  All are volunteers and all are dedicated to their job.  To say they are hostages is a horrible thing to say.  I'm sure they wouldn't agree with you. 

You really massively missed the point on this one. As troops, against nuclear weapons, their presence is useless. However as a point of leverage for North Korea to exploit, they are very useful indeed.

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You really massively missed the point on this one. As troops, against nuclear weapons, their presence is useless. However as a point of leverage for North Korea to exploit, they are very useful indeed.

You are aware NK has not mastered the art of nuclear weapons.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11813699
 

Quote

 

North Korea claims it has successfully "miniaturised" nuclear warheads - but this has never been independently verified, and some experts have cast doubt on the claims.

..........

Writing in September 2016, he said Pyongyang's ability to field an intercontinental ballistic missile fitted with a nuclear warhead capable of reaching the US was "still a long way off - perhaps 5 to 10 years, but likely doable if the programme is unconstrained".

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

You are aware NK has not mastered the art of nuclear weapons.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11813699
 

 

 

You wanna bet the store on that?

[baboon]

6 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

IOW, a sympathizer pretending to not be a sympathizer. Got it.

'Objective' is the word you are looking for.

[mrwebb8825]

18 hours ago, thaihome said:

Within 1 hour a good part of Seoul would be leveled and likely 10's of thousands would be dead. You might want to so some research how how close to border Seoul is and what artillery and missiles N. Korea has pointed at it.

TH 

So, you're claiming that no matter who strikes NK, their ONLY unilateral retaliatory response is to attack Seoul? You should let the rest of the world in on this as they all seem to be very misinformed.

Japan can now safely attack as only Seoul would pay. Thy don't like them anyway. Taiwan could safely attack as a strike at China and only Seoul would pay. Russia could safely attack as they would blame the US and only Seoul would pay. You see where I'm going with this?

Of course, this all completely discounts the new THAAD systems in and around Seoul designed precisely for defending against this.

Now, just for argument's sake let's say that military people in Seoul had enough advanced warning as to launch a small barrage of EMP missiles over the border to take out all electronics such as launch codes being processed, communications from the north that this had even happened, etc. It really IS doable.

[thaihome]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

So, you're claiming that no matter who strikes NK, their ONLY unilateral retaliatory response is to attack Seoul? You should let the rest of the world in on this as they all seem to be very misinformed.

Japan can now safely attack as only Seoul would pay. Thy don't like them anyway. Taiwan could safely attack as a strike at China and only Seoul would pay. Russia could safely attack as they would blame the US and only Seoul would pay. You see where I'm going with this?

Of course, this all completely discounts the new THAAD systems in and around Seoul designed precisely for defending against this.

Now, just for argument's sake let's say that military people in Seoul had enough advanced warning as to launch a small barrage of EMP missiles over the border to take out all electronics such as launch codes being processed, communications from the north that this had even happened, etc. It really IS doable.

Post like this is why I keep coming back to TV. The entertainment level can be so high.

 

North Korea experts Victor Cha and David Kang posted on the website of Foreign Policy magazine late last month that the North can fire 500,000 rounds of artillery on Seoul in the first hour of a conflict.

 

Even so, not everyone believes North Korea could make good on its "sea of fire" threats. Security expert Roger Cavazos, a former U.S. Army officer, wrote in a report for the Nautilus Institute last year that, among other things, North Korea's big guns have a high rate of firing duds, pose more of a threat to Seoul's less populated outer suburbs, and would be vulnerable to counterattack as soon as they start firing and reveal their location.

 

"North Korea occasionally threatens to "turn Seoul into a Sea of Fire," he wrote. "But can North Korea really do this? ... The short answer is they can't; but they can kill many tens of thousands of people, start a larger war and cause a tremendous amount of damage before ultimately losing their regime."

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-no-one-in-korea-wants-war-2013-4

 

The THAAD is ineffective against a massive artillery barrage and your "EMP" missiles are just going into production with limited numbers available and would be unable to stop most artillery batteries from firing at least several rounds. 

 

Indeed, N. Korea could be stopped, but at the price of tens of thousands of Koreans and other nationalities that live in Seoul's suburbs. 

 

These are people that allowed at least a million people to starve to death,  refusing all offers of aid. Do you think they would not take as many people with them if faced with destruction?

 

To say an attack is "doable" without acknowledging that tens of thousands of S. Koreans will die as result is ludicrous. If it were "doable" don't you think it would have been done already? You think this is an original idea not already throughly thought through by people far more familiar with weapons available and the consequences of using them?

 

 

TH 

[JAG]

You really massively missed the point on this one. As troops, against nuclear weapons, their presence is useless. However as a point of leverage for North Korea to exploit, they are very useful indeed.

 

Not really. Troops properly equipped and trained for NBC (nuclear biological and chemical) defence are capable of surviving a nuclear attack and continuing to fight. I should imagine that the US troops in South Korea devote a lot of attention and training to NBC. The US equipment and training is good, Likewise I suspect the South Koreans work at it. Where the mass casualties will be is amongst the civilian population. These would be reduced by effective civilian defence programmes. I don't know if South Korea has them.

 

A nuclear or chemical battlefield would be a terrible place. Cold bloodedly however there would be a winner, and it wouldn't be the fat boys goose stepping legions.

 

Don't for a moment get the idea that I'm advocating a nuclear first strike. If the North do go nuclear, then it would be like Sampson collapsing Delilah's palace. The US could destroy them without using their own nuclear warheads.