Bangkok has the world's best street food — but authorities want it gone

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Surely there can be compromise, ie, on wide pavements, let them use their stalls on one side as long as there is room for pedestrians to walk both ways at the same time and not have to step on the roads.

Wistful thinking Possum. Would they simply expand into the extra space?

[madusa]

Civil servants are not very intelligent people. In my country if you have a bit of brains you will not last very long working as a civil servant, because those without brain will gang up on you and make life difficult for you in the end you resign and look for another job. I was told by a friend who was once a civil servant. He is a guy with lots of common sense and logic, they dislike him of course.

Say you arrive at the airport in my country and you say you want to look for a large group of stupid people, we will take you straight to the government office. Where else can you find such a group? Exactly, that's the place to find them. Simpletons and nincompoops they are all there.

Can you expect them to come up with a solution for such a simple problem?

 

[kkerry]

26 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Oh wow. What memories! The top one I don't recognize, but surely the bottom one is the famous Telok Ayer. This was a fish market down by Collyer Quay when I lived in Singapore. All that beautiful iron work was made in Scotland.

First is Makansutra Gluttons Bay outdoor food court, next to Esplanade, not far from the Mandarin Oriental Hotel.

 

Second is Lau Pa Sat aka Telok Ayer Market below. They did a restoration three years ago and it is still popular, especially at night when they put out tables and chairs in one of the side streets.

 

 

[Shaunduhpostman]

I'll see it when I believe it, street food is pretty integral to just about everyone's lives. What do they suggest, that people cook at home? MAny apartments don't have cooking facilities, and I doubt most people are rolling in the money enough to eat in at a proper restaurant night in and night out. Food courts will then be the go to option and then they will have less competition, prices could go up and as follows naturally the quality goes down. People need the income and people need their street food, you're not just talking slapping more taxes on people's booze. Just another poorly thought through crusade that hopefully they will soon lose interest in pursuing before the month is out.

 

I agree that Singapore has some excellent food courts, so much variety and for the most part very well done. With forethought, planning and a gradual phase out of sidewalk blocking street food vendors they could improve the street food in Bangkok. But even major cities in much more developed countries, Korea, Taiwan have sidewalk food vendors, albeit less than you see in Thailand.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Shaunduhpostman

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Bangkok is one of the WORST laid out cities in the world.  Singapore has hawker centers which provide inexpensive food.  Hong Kong and Taipei have night markets.  Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing handles this well too.  The Bangkok government needs to come up the a solution as other cities have and not just forbid it.  

Oh yes, yes, yes! Spent a year in China, eating out every day. Best food in Asia. Wonderful variety and cheap to boot! And big, wide, uncluttered sidewalks. I've got to hand it to the communists, (both in China and the great cities of eastern Europe. They sure know how to build sidewalks!

[Hugh Jarse]

8 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

I think having designated areas for street food would be more appropriate. Not rid all of Bangkok of street food vendors.

A good practical suggestion. Bangkok needs its few and run down pavements for pedestrians .

[Moonlover]

58 minutes ago, Hugh Jarse said:

9 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

I think having designated areas for street food would be more appropriate. Not rid all of Bangkok of street food vendors.

 

This is exactly what they did in Singapore. In fact, I do believe that 'food courts', as we now know them originated there. And there were a number of advantages. It cleared the streets and provided far more comfortable surroundings for diners,

 

It also allowed for a far greater control of hygiene standards.

 

Many people who might be squeamish about eating hawker food elsewhere would not worry too much there.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Moonlover

[thaiguzzi]

10 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Dont you just love trying to walk along the footpath trying to avoid huge vats of boiling oil, hot barbecues pouring out smoke, the choking fumes of fried chilli, plastic seats and people waiting and taking up all the path so you have to push past or walk in the road. So much Bangkok charm !!!!  Bo!!ocks !

 

Yeah i do. Especially after coming back from a month or two in the sterile West.

Fantastic! Chaos. Humidity. Smells. Street food. Manic sidewalks. Man it's good to be back home...

[Sydebolle]

Maybe the quotation is wrong and should read "Authorities want the dreadful hygienic situation gone". 

Lets face it, look how these excellent cooks keep their "kitchen" as well as their "crockery and cutlery" ....... clean! All this raw meat lying in the smog of Sukhumvit or in bright sunlight does not get better over those hours waiting to be cooked for the divine diner ! 

That, I would say, is the problem. 

[TumblinDice]

Maybe the quotation is wrong and should read "Authorities want the dreadful hygienic situation gone". 

Lets face it, look how these excellent cooks keep their "kitchen" as well as their "crockery and cutlery" ....... clean! All this raw meat lying in the smog of Sukhumvit or in bright sunlight does not get better over those hours waiting to be cooked for the divine diner ! 

That, I would say, is the problem. 

You got a good point there. Seeing stacks of raw eggs simmering in 30 C degree heat & humidity is a turn off.
Does Thailand even have a governmental food health/safety inspection department?
Back home the sight of a cockroach (or any foul bacteria) will shut down a hotdog vendor for a month & possibly loose its license.
Still, as much as I eat street food, I've never been sick. (I try to avoid the eggs & shellfish).



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[SiamBeast]

Hygiene is a concern - I eat street food sometimes but never squid and eggs. I had a VERY bad poisoning with squid in chinatown 2 years ago and I got admitted at the hospital with 42.3 fever. No idea what was inside that squid but my body didn't take it well. Next time I passed in the area, my wife had to hold me so I wouldn't go give a beating to the vendor.

[newatthis]

14 hours ago, Patanawet said:

Yes I do actually.

Begone to Singapore where you will be more than welcome.

Oh and by the way, your foul language does not help your message one bit but probably says an awful lot about you.

PS your 'nom de plume' is a joke --- right?

I read that post by jaiyen many times and I'm still wondering what foul language you're talking about???

[Lickey]

Our town of 10000 has a food market,its ok i spose,but at times it seems the whole town is there,mobikes all over the place,the pavements were clear,but shops now put there goods on the it now, so its a no win job here in Issan..

[Dumbastheycome]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:54 AM, jaiyen said:

Dont you just love trying to walk along the footpath trying to avoid huge vats of boiling oil, hot barbecues pouring out smoke, the choking fumes of fried chilli, plastic seats and people waiting and taking up all the path so you have to push past or walk in the road. So much Bangkok charm !!!!  Bo!!ocks !

 

It  will  be the  seared  eyeballs  from  chillie  fumes   I  will  fondly  remember  as  a thing   of the  past  !

[fruitman]

Now BKK has many new huge markets who are perfect. Loads of streetfood and everything else, wide paths, clean shops....

 

They are along the mainroads...much better than on the sidewalks.

[BigKahuna]

On 16/04/2017 at 2:41 PM, yellowboat said:

Bangkok is one of the WORST laid out cities in the world.  Singapore has hawker centers which provide inexpensive food.  Hong Kong and Taipei have night markets.  Shenzhen, Shanghai and Beijing handles this well too.  The Bangkok government needs to come up the a solution as other cities have and not just forbid it.  

That chaotic layout makes it fun. Order makes life boring.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 4/16/2017 at 8:19 PM, Moonlover said:

This is exactly what they did in Singapore. In fact, I do believe that 'food courts', as we now know them originated there. And there were a number of advantages. It cleared the streets and provided far more comfortable surroundings for diners,

 

It also allowed for a far greater control of hygiene standards.

 

Many people who might be squeamish about eating hawker food elsewhere would not worry too much there.

Well if they were going to do what Singapore did -- it would require a sizeable budget to acquire the property all over the place to set up Hawker stands to move the vendors too...  

 

I see no indication that they have any plans to do that.  

 

The unintended consequences will be that there will be many people who won't have kitchens and won't have places to get food other than places they cannot afford to go to on a daily basis.  There will then be a feedback as the cost of living will rise, and a demand of a rather sizeable rise in the minimum wage for Bangkok.   If they are going to do it -- do it right, but they are doing it a** backwards.

[bamukloy]

Its as if this government is actually pushing for an uprising, so many sectors of the public they must have upset so far.

It reminds me a certain western country, where a former prem (in a small amount of time) succeeded in phissing off absolutely every sector of the public,except for the rich of course.
Promised the earth in pre-election but when elected, went on to break all the promises and introduced policies that resulted in average workers entitlements being stripped.

 

They make these decisions with no thought of the people they put out of work.
People who were already struggling.

 

It would be one thing if they offered help or alternatives but dont seem to do either.

 

You can only mess with Thai peoples rice bowl for so long.

This last month has just been a complete show of arrogance from certain rich folks. First the pickup thing and now this.

 

Sadly, i feel a certain group will bring together all these disenfranchised groups whom have been stripped of their livelihoods.

The pot will be stirred and it will be on again, even more ugly than last time.
Hope im than wrong though.

[Moonlover]

8 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Well if they were going to do what Singapore did -- it would require a sizeable budget to acquire the property all over the place to set up Hawker stands to move the vendors too...  

 

I see no indication that they have any plans to do that.  

 

The unintended consequences will be that there will be many people who won't have kitchens and won't have places to get food other than places they cannot afford to go to on a daily basis.  There will then be a feedback as the cost of living will rise, and a demand of a rather sizeable rise in the minimum wage for Bangkok.   If they are going to do it -- do it right, but they are doing it a** backwards.

Yes, I appreciate the problems, but Singapore is a tiny country with the highest population density in SEA and critically short of space. They also love street food, (which IMO is far Superior to Thailand's) They also have a very large, mainly Chinese immigrant worker population to be fed. I'm sure you can guess where they eat!

 

If Singapore can do it, so can Bangkok (and other cluttered cities and towns in Thailand).

 

BTW Singapore's switch from the traditional hawkers on the street to hawker's food courts was not an instant 'now you see them, now you don't' situation. There was a long 'cat and mouse' game played out there as well. There's an interesting history at:

 

https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/ips/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/08/AG_history-of-hawkers_010511.pdf

 

'There are no problems, only solutions'

 

                                                      John Lennon.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Moonlover

[kkerry]

24 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Yes, I appreciate the problems, but Singapore is a tiny country with the highest population density in SEA and critically short of space. They also love street food, (which IMO is far Superior to Thailand's) They also have a very large, mainly Chinese immigrant worker population to be fed. I'm sure you can guess where they eat!

 

If Singapore can do it, so can Bangkok (and other cluttered cities and towns in Thailand).

 

BTW Singapore's switch from the traditional hawkers on the street to hawker's food courts was not an instant 'now you see them, now you don't' situation. There was a long 'cat and mouse' game played out there as well. There's an interesting history at:

 

https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/ips/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/08/AG_history-of-hawkers_010511.pdf

 

'There are no problems, only solutions'

 

                                                      John Lennon.

 

The PDF in the link above is an excellent history of how Singapore managed to get street food sellers off the streets and in to more hygienic locations. I hope the powers that be in Thailand read and learn from it as it is very relevant to Bangkok. The major obstacle to implementing such a scheme is the same as getting anything done in Thailand... corruption.

[Moonlover]

11 minutes ago, kkerry said:

 

The PDF in the link above is an excellent history of how Singapore managed to get street food sellers off the streets and in to more hygienic locations. I hope the powers that be in Thailand read and learn from it as it is very relevant to Bangkok. The major obstacle to implementing such a scheme is the same as getting anything done in Thailand... corruption.

Thailand also lacks the leadership quality's of Singapore (mainly the Lee dynasty of course) and the 'can do' attitude of the (mainly) Chinese population.

[BigKahuna]

Just now, Moonlover said:

Thailand also lacks the leadership quality's of Singapore (mainly the Lee dynasty of course) and the 'can do' attitude of the (mainly) Chinese population.

You could move to Singapore or China. Im glad its different. 

[Moonlover]

1 minute ago, BigKahuna said:

You could move to Singapore or China. Im glad its different. 

To be honest, if it were possible, I would.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:42 PM, TumblinDice said:

 

You got a good point there. Seeing stacks of raw eggs simmering in 30 C degree heat & humidity is a turn off.
Does Thailand even have a governmental food health/safety inspection department?
Back home the sight of a cockroach (or any foul bacteria) will shut down a hotdog vendor for a month & possibly loose its license.
Still, as much as I eat street food, I've never been sick. (I try to avoid the eggs & shellfish).



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

You do know that the chickens the "raw eggs" get laid from do not I REPEAT NOT refrigerate their eggs?  Unless things have changed, farmers don't paged and go out and collect eggs when they are laid so they do not "simmer" outdoors.

 

The reason why eggs must be refrigerated in North America is because .... the length of time from farm to being eaten can be extremely long.  They could be up to a month old, in fact even after they get to the grocer (my grocery store receives them weekly - based on the "best before date") and that is a fair length of time after they were laid.

 

Ironically, one of the reasons why they must be refrigerated is because in North America we tend to have nice clean eggs in the store (i.e. they get washed) [which in many countries is illegal] -- which actually is not good practice since it starts and encourages bacterial growth.... which means that after that point they must be refrigerated.  Also once eggs are refrigerated, they must continue to be refrigerated since afterwards when being brought to room temperature they will sweat (which is the same problem with washing them).  

 

Not washing and not refrigerating the eggs allow them to be stored non-refrigerated for a reasonable amount of time before use.... [egg deliveries tend to be daily or every two days here -- i.e. they don't tend to sit on the shelf for a month like in North America]

[jimster]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:35 AM, Moonlover said:

Singapore sets the precedent. Don't 'chuck out the baby with the bathwater', put it in a good bath instead.  I love street food throughout Asia, but I like to enjoy in a clean, safe and pleasant environment. Not sat on the sidewalk, amongst noise and pollution.  And I also like a safe sidewalk to get around on.

 

Singapore's 'food courts' are the perfect solution. I know some people don't go for that country's somewhat sterile character, but, for me it's got what Asia needs. Asian character without the messy bits.

Singapore is fine, I like it too (at least for a few days it's not too bad) but if you're suggesting this is the path Bangkok should look towards, I think you're mistaken. Tourists will stop coming if Bangkok simply turns into a slightly more chaotic, messier version of Singapore. There are already enough shopping malls all with the same stores, same restaurants, same supermarkets it's getting boring as it is - I mean how many more Fuji restaurants, MK Suki restaurants, McDonalds, KFCs, Dairy Queens etc. does one need? Kill the street food and not only will that mean lost livelihoods for the locals and possible protests and social upheaval (yes it will happen if the government doesn't abandon it's plan or find an acceptable compromise solution) but the charm of Bangkok will be lost.

 

If I want to go to Singapore, I'll go there. I don't need another Singapore in Thailand, because once that happens, there'll be another one in Cambodia, Myanmar, Vietnam and soon the whole world will be same. Sterile and boring.

[NickJ]

Best Hog Slop in the World. Maybe.

When I first came here to work in 1992-3

The Bangkok post did an article in Outlook. They highlighted the findings of the Dept of Health. DOH.

Doh sent 10. Ten man teams to ten areas.  Each team member was responsible for one item in there area. So ten items in ten areas.

There findings were printed. 

Some of the highlights I never forget. 

The Orange juice was full of e coli. Or human poop.

The various meat or fish balls had 450 times the safe amount of preservative.

The clean plates that were stabbed and cultured....WHOA. 

oddly a friend of mine at the time. A beautiful model from England. Who loved the street bbq chicken contradicted typhoid. Fever from it.

The vendors to help with the rat and cockroach population.  And don't forget the waste that helps block the Flock outta the sewers. 

Bon Appetite.  oh, the average local thinks diarrhea is normal. Imagine if they didn't have those hoses here in the restrooms. Land of S

Tains 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Best Hog Slop in the World. Maybe.

When I first came here to work in 1992-3

The Bangkok post did an article in Outlook. They highlighted the findings of the Dept of Health. DOH.

Doh sent 10. Ten man teams to ten areas.  Each team member was responsible for one item in there area. So ten items in ten areas.

There findings were printed. 

Some of the highlights I never forget. 

The Orange juice was full of e coli. Or human poop.

The various meat or fish balls had 450 times the safe amount of preservative.

The clean plates that were stabbed and cultured....WHOA. 

oddly a friend of mine at the time. A beautiful model from England. Who loved the street bbq chicken contradicted typhoid. Fever from it.

The vendors to help with the rat and cockroach population.  And don't forget the waste that helps block the Flock outta the sewers. 

Bon Appetite.  oh, the average local thinks diarrhea is normal. Imagine if they didn't have those hoses here in the restrooms. Land of S

Tains 

And this was 25 years ago. And what progress has been made since toward good food hygiene standards?. From my perspective, none at all. Certainly not on the streets.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take Singapore's model. 

[NickJ]

Let em have at it. Most that eat the crap see it as a badge of courage.....ha ha the brown squirty badge of courage. 

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, jimster said:

There are already enough shopping malls all with the same stores, same restaurants, same supermarkets it's getting boring as it is - I mean how many more Fuji restaurants, MK Suki restaurants, McDonalds, KFCs, Dairy Queens etc. does one need?

Yes, there are plenty of these around, I'll grant you. Central Malls present a classic model, which I'm sure has spread throughout the country.

 

But what do you also find in all of these malls? A food court of course, serving good Thai food in safe, comfortable and hygienic surroundings, with much more variety than you'll find on the street. And at prices that even the poorest can afford. And the Thais flock to them.

 

And where do you suppose the model for these food courts originates?

 

Wake up Thailand. The future is already here.

[BigKahuna]

Never had food poisoning from street food in Bangkok.

 

Quick turnover and well cooked. Far more common in restaurants where food sits around for days.

 

The people who poo poo street food don't eat it.

 

Singapore is boring and expensive.