British PM May calls for early election on June 8

[onthesoi]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Only the fact that he has reduced the party that will be the official opposition in the next government to a totally ineffective party and will he have enough MP's willing this time to fill all Shadow Cabinet posts???

You can read the rest of my post for the answers to your questions.

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

There is nothing wrong with Corbyn, it's just that the Uk has taken a large, wrong step, to the right in recent years, it's actually incredible to me when I hear working class Brits supporting the Tories, the poor are feeling the pinch and looking to lash out somehow but are too stupid to realise it was successive Tory governments over the last 40 years or so which have damaged the uk economy beyond repair......you only have to compare with Germany's achievements over the same period to see this is true.

 

The fact Corbyn is unflinching in the face of all criticism just means hes principled and doesn't sell out easy ....what exactly should Corybn do to make people happy ? ...become a plastic tory so he can become more electable?

Very true, but you forget that Blair was equally responsible when it comes to blaming various governments for 'letting down' the poor and average.

 

Labour supporters are turning to the tories in this election because they are promising brexit, whilst the labour party isn't - even though so many of their supporters voted 'leave' in the referendum.

[nontabury]

9 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

You can read the rest of my post for the answers to your questions.

Most of those who will vote for Labour next month,will do so out of tradition and loyalty to the party. Very few will vote for JC as a person or his policies.

[nauseus]

41 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

There is nothing wrong with Corbyn, it's just that the Uk has taken a large, wrong step, to the right in recent years, it's actually incredible to me when I hear working class Brits supporting the Tories, the poor are feeling the pinch and looking to lash out somehow but are too stupid to realise it was successive Tory governments over the last 40 years or so which have damaged the uk economy beyond repair......you only have to compare with Germany's achievements over the same period to see this is true.

 

The fact Corbyn is unflinching in the face of all criticism just means hes principled and doesn't sell out easy ....what exactly should Corybn do to make people happy ? ...become a plastic tory so he can become more electable?

Wow, I didn't realize the Tories had been in power for so long! 

Edited May 13, 2017 by nauseus

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Very true, but you forget that Blair was equally responsible when it comes to blaming various governments for 'letting down' the poor and average.

 

Labour supporters are turning to the tories in this election because they are promising brexit, whilst the labour party isn't - even though so many of their supporters voted 'leave' in the referendum.

 

Blair is not even close to being equally responsible, see my post below on why, by the time Blair got into power gov assets/revinues had already been stripped clean so he was forced to borrow, but he still spent more on the poor and average than the tories did.

 

Let me put in the simplest of terms, the uk used to have flock of geese that laid golden eggs, but the tories sold them at market at rock bottom prices to their school chums in exchange for kick backs.

[JAG]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Corbyn is not a pacifist. His background is Orthodox Trotskyism so your reference is redundant

He was an avowed supporter of Sinn Fein /PIRA.

 

I made no "reference", I advanced a opinion.

 

By all means feel free to disagree.

Edited May 13, 2017 by JAG

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Basil B said:

Yes, he is trying to reinvent the Labour party as Militant Tendency

 

Well not quite. Corbyn may have defended the Militant Tendency but Militant is a different political group to that run by London Labour Briefing (see Life of Brian, ref Peoples Popular Front Vs.....) London Labour Briefing is a rebadged IMG. Just to clear things up a little more, Tariq Ali dropped out of the IMG/London Labour Briefing and is now an independent journalist and author. Corbyn is aligned with London Labour Briefing and would certainly be regarded as a 'splitter' by Militant (RSG). However all the left-wing groups used Corbyn's election as leader of the Labour Party to double up their efforts to either join, rejoin etc the Labour Party and push it hard left.

[Grouse]

23 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Ahh, finally! A Brexit point not directly related to buy/sell-trade.

On this forum as well as on others and in newspapers the whole Brexit dish seems to boil down to sell/buy-trade.

There are other relevant aspects to being/not being member of the EU;

self regulation

picking own technical standards / regulations

setting own rules for food GM, for cucumber shapes, for pesticides or what have you

beeing in charge of this and that, eg national laws/stipulation, immigration or whatever

being master in own house

 

 

You can NOT be serious

 

are you?

 

The Con Party setting environmental, safety and employment standards????

 

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Except for a very important FACT.  The Indians wanted to govern themselves,while the Falkand islanders voted democratically and overwhelmingly to remain a British colony/protectorate.

Off topic

 

We couldn't do it now anyway

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You can NOT be serious

 

are you?

 

The Con Party setting environmental, safety and employment standards????

 

 

A lot has changed since 1973 and the UK has introduced several national HSE laws independent of the EU in the interim. 

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, Basil B said:

I did say "if"...

I also forgot to add Hong Kong to the list which was a British Territory in 1982. 

 

Corbyn has opposed every military action and I feel I am justified in saying had he been PM at the time the Falkland would now be called the  "Malvinas" .

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

Except for a very important FACT.  The Indians wanted to govern themselves,while the Falkand islanders voted democratically and overwhelmingly to remain a British colony/protectorate.

 

That wasn't the point.

[Grouse]

May I recommend yesterday's Any Questions on BBC radio 4?

 

Vince Cable is very good 

 

Dianne Abbot is ... er... well it's radio

 

There's a Con guy and a Green

 

Jonathan Dimbleby is on Great form!

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy and replies removed.   Copying large blocks of text is not permitted.   You may post the first three sentences and then a link to the remainder of the article.  

[Khun Han]

13 hours ago, onthesoi said:

There is nothing wrong with Corbyn, it's just that the Uk has taken a large, wrong step, to the right in recent years, it's actually incredible to me when I hear working class Brits supporting the Tories, the poor are feeling the pinch and looking to lash out somehow but are too stupid to realise it was successive Tory governments over the last 40 years or so which have damaged the uk economy beyond repair......you only have to compare with Germany's achievements over the same period to see this is true.

 

The fact Corbyn is unflinching in the face of all criticism just means hes principled and doesn't sell out easy ....what exactly should Corybn do to make people happy ? ...become a plastic tory so he can become more electable?

 

There is no doubt that Corbyn is principled. But his obsessions are of the purple-haired nose-ring variety. He sweats the small stuff all day long, and he has shown not one iota of being capable of being a national leader with a vision of the country's future. And brexit has exposed him. That's one of the big reasons why traditional, mainstream Labour voters are deserting him in droves.

 

What realistic proposals does he have to regenerate heavy industry (the loss of which is why we're in this daft boom-and-bust economy, as opposed to your beloved Germany)? This kind of policy would give him a huge edge over the Tories, but he offers nothing of substance.

 

He would make a great secretary of state for renewable energy, or something similar. And that's the limit of his capabilities.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

There is no doubt that Corbyn is principled. But his obsessions are of the purple-haired nose-ring variety. He sweats the small stuff all day long, and he has shown not one iota of being capable of being a national leader with a vision of the country's future. And brexit has exposed him. That's one of the big reasons why traditional, mainstream Labour voters are deserting him in droves.

 

What realistic proposals does he have to regenerate heavy industry (the loss of which is why we're in this daft boom-and-bust economy, as opposed to your beloved Germany)? This kind of policy would give him a huge edge over the Tories, but he offers nothing of substance.

 

He would make a great secretary of state for renewable energy, or something similar. And that's the limit of his capabilities.

No party has any proposals to regenerate heavy industry as previously existed, nor intends to.

[SheungWan]

14 hours ago, onthesoi said:

There is nothing wrong with Corbyn, it's just that the Uk has taken a large, wrong step, to the right in recent years, it's actually incredible to me when I hear working class Brits supporting the Tories, the poor are feeling the pinch and looking to lash out somehow but are too stupid to realise it was successive Tory governments over the last 40 years or so which have damaged the uk economy beyond repair......you only have to compare with Germany's achievements over the same period to see this is true.

 

The fact Corbyn is unflinching in the face of all criticism just means hes principled and doesn't sell out easy ....what exactly should Corybn do to make people happy ? ...become a plastic tory so he can become more electable?

There is something wrong with your timeline. 40 years back from 2017 is 1977. It has not been successive Tory governments. In fact the tag end of the Callaghan government kicks off those 40 years with the infamous Winter of Discontent in 1978-79, so it is hardly sweetness and light leading up to Thatcher's election. And then there is the 3 elections from 1997 won by Labour. You seem to have missed them out as well. So the suggestion that there have been successive Conservative governments for 40 years just isn't true. As for German industrial policies during this period, chalk and cheese compared with anything Corbyn is coming out with.

[billd766]

On 12/05/2017 at 5:36 PM, citybiker said:

 

Slightly flawed is an understatement, the man is clearly delusional and having browsed through the 'Times'' analysis on the manifesto the thought of JC possibly becoming UK prime minister is extremely worrying & scary.

All this anti-rich tosh when the UK needs wealth creators and investment to remain not relocate more corporate friendly.

Labours policies certainly won't help reduce the £1.7 tn debt down any quicker than now.


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On the BBC News website this morning. And you all thought that Brexit was based on deceit and lies.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-39910293

 

Labour says it would raise billions of pounds for public services with a new tax on financial transactions - known as a "Robin Hood" tax.

The party said extending the way shares were taxed and closing a loophole would bring in up to £26bn in the next Parliament, if it won the election.

It is also wants a tax avoidance crackdown and would require £1m+ earners to publish their tax records.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-39911569

 

The Conservatives are promising a "new generation" of social housing will be built in England if they win the general election.

They say they would make it easier for councils to purchase derelict land for new rented housing projects.

Their plans involve offering "fixed term" council houses to be sold off after 10 to 15 years, with any proceeds reinvested in social housing.

Labour said the plans were "political spin, with no substance".

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39729595

 

Labour has pledged to build a million new homes over five years, if its wins power at the general election.

Party leader Jeremy Corbyn said half of the homes built would be council and housing association homes which would be "for rent and totally affordable".

Labour said figures showed its councils had built more homes than Conservative ones since 2010.

The Conservatives said they had a "clear plan" for affordable housing and Labour's policies were "uncosted".

[RuamRudy]

On ‎12‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 2:36 PM, citybiker said:

 

 

Slightly flawed is an understatement, the man is clearly delusional and having browsed through the 'Times'' analysis on the manifesto the thought of JC possibly becoming UK prime minister is extremely worrying & scary.

All this anti-rich tosh when the UK needs wealth creators and investment to remain not relocate more corporate friendly.

Labours policies certainly won't help reduce the £1.7 tn debt down any quicker than now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Without wishing to appear that I am a fan of Corbyn, the problem in your rebuttal (and clearly this is not a UK problem alone) is that the wealth creators, almost en mass, create wealth for themselves only. Our government has given away billions of pounds of yours and my money to these so called wealth creators through their reaganomic QE and tried to pretend that trickle down economics hasn't been exposed as a con.

 

Sadly too many episodes of Benefits Street distracted the masses from recognising the true villains in our country, allowing our government to syphon off more and more of the wealth of the working classes while the working classes themselves were getting upset at one of their own getting a mobility scooter or additional child support. And the result? The rich got richer and the poor stangated or worse. So I contest that the last thing the UK needs is more of these so-called wealth creators, unless we fundamentally purge the corruption and the corrupt in the process.

[SheungWan]

45 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Without wishing to appear that I am a fan of Corbyn, the problem in your rebuttal (and clearly this is not a UK problem alone) is that the wealth creators, almost en mass, create wealth for themselves only. Our government has given away billions of pounds of yours and my money to these so called wealth creators through their reaganomic QE and tried to pretend that trickle down economics hasn't been exposed as a con.

 

Sadly too many episodes of Benefits Street distracted the masses from recognising the true villains in our country, allowing our government to syphon off more and more of the wealth of the working classes while the working classes themselves were getting upset at one of their own getting a mobility scooter or additional child support. And the result? The rich got richer and the poor stangated or worse. So I contest that the last thing the UK needs is more of these so-called wealth creators, unless we fundamentally purge the corruption and the corrupt in the process.

What you do appear as, however, is to represent is an SNP ersatz version of Old Labour, so being mistaken for a Jeremy Corbyn lookalike goes with the territory. Just Jeremy with a kilt really.

[dick dasterdly]

51 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Without wishing to appear that I am a fan of Corbyn, the problem in your rebuttal (and clearly this is not a UK problem alone) is that the wealth creators, almost en mass, create wealth for themselves only. Our government has given away billions of pounds of yours and my money to these so called wealth creators through their reaganomic QE and tried to pretend that trickle down economics hasn't been exposed as a con.

 

Sadly too many episodes of Benefits Street distracted the masses from recognising the true villains in our country, allowing our government to syphon off more and more of the wealth of the working classes while the working classes themselves were getting upset at one of their own getting a mobility scooter or additional child support. And the result? The rich got richer and the poor stangated or worse. So I contest that the last thing the UK needs is more of these so-called wealth creators, unless we fundamentally purge the corruption and the corrupt in the process.

 

Just now, SheungWan said:

What you do appear as, however, is to represent is an SNP ersatz version of Old Labour, so being mistaken for a Jeremy Corbyn lookalike goes with the territory. Just Jeremy with a kilt really.

I'm English - and think RuamRudy's post is spot on.

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm English - and think RuamRudy's post is spot on.

 

So, if the UK election was a three-legged race, you have found your partner.

[RuamRudy]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

What you do appear as, however, is to represent is an SNP ersatz version of Old Labour, so being mistaken for a Jeremy Corbyn lookalike goes with the territory. Just Jeremy with a kilt really.

SNP? That broad church of political views united by a common objective isn't mentioned in my post.

 

But what you appear to be suggesting is that we simply ignore the elephant in the room? Or is it the language I used? Maybe we should pussyfoot around, Milqetoast style, lest we upset 'establishment'? Well clearly the advisors and focus groups got it right - keep the proles fighting amongst themselves and we can continue to rape and plunder.

 

You don't give too much away in your post to allow me to better understand your position on QE and the inequalities our government continues to foster, but if I represent a kilted Corbyn, your post comes across as very Chamberlain like.

[Grouse]

England and Wales should just copy German policies. Dump this home ownership is all. Go for long termism, go for quality. Corporation tax 30%. Income tax 14% to 42%

 

Scotland, follow Denmark. Full stop. Corporation tax 25% total. Income tax 5% up to 470,000 DKK (about 60,000quid) then 53% but with huge allowances. Very progressive.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Grouse

[citybiker]

 
Without wishing to appear that I am a fan of Corbyn, the problem in your rebuttal (and clearly this is not a UK problem alone) is that the wealth creators, almost en mass, create wealth for themselves only. Our government has given away billions of pounds of yours and my money to these so called wealth creators through their reaganomic QE and tried to pretend that trickle down economics hasn't been exposed as a con.
 
Sadly too many episodes of Benefits Street distracted the masses from recognising the true villains in our country, allowing our government to syphon off more and more of the wealth of the working classes while the working classes themselves were getting upset at one of their own getting a mobility scooter or additional child support. And the result? The rich got richer and the poor stangated or worse. So I contest that the last thing the UK needs is more of these so-called wealth creators, unless we fundamentally purge the corruption and the corrupt in the process.

On the wealth creator issue, we would need to define and breakdown those between personal & business interests, along with the tax revenue and HR factor's too. (Not for this thread obviously).

Brown & Blair's deregulation of the financial city allowed the wealthy to exploit to the full, yet those with business interests were still remaining in the UK riding out the stormy period of 2008, not forgetting Brian sacked his adviser who warned him of an impending financial crash so no excuses from the Labour faithful.

The benefits system has imploded & is no longer an emergency safety net but an alternative lifestyle thanks to Blair & Co too, QE got HoP approval due to the 'banking industry' getting beyond control and corporate governance a simple afterthought.

Benefits street is another fine example of the media/tv companies seeking a niche to highlight where 'all' previous governments have failed its electorate, the rich will always go and remain where their assets are either well looked after or swift return then relocate.

Genuine welfare has its merits and should be supported within a reasonable timeframe, however make the welfare/benefits system so financially unattractive the only option is employment in some form.


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[SheungWan]

Having to read all the personal mini-manifestos on this thread is resulting in me losing the will to live.

[citybiker]

There is nothing wrong with Corbyn, it's just that the Uk has taken a large, wrong step, to the right in recent years, it's actually incredible to me when I hear working class Brits supporting the Tories, the poor are feeling the pinch and looking to lash out somehow but are too stupid to realise it was successive Tory governments over the last 40 years or so which have damaged the uk economy beyond repair......you only have to compare with Germany's achievements over the same period to see this is true.
 
The fact Corbyn is unflinching in the face of all criticism just means hes principled and doesn't sell out easy ....what exactly should Corybn do to make people happy ? ...become a plastic tory so he can become more electable?

In amongst that '40 years' of consecutive Tory Government was 13 years of Labour Blair, Brown and financial crash.

Corbyn unflinching?

Correct, he was in hiding from the media as soon as the draft manifesto leak hit the media desk's, that'll teach the PLP to give the Union cartel's first look of their rewind to 70's image of the UK.




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[onthesoi]

25 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Brown & Blair's deregulation of the financial city allowed the wealthy to exploit to the full, yet those with business interests were still remaining in the UK riding out the stormy period of 2008, not forgetting Brian sacked his adviser who warned him of an impending financial crash so no excuses from the Labour faithful.

 

Blair and brown deregulated the global finance system?

[onthesoi]

2 minutes ago, citybiker said:

In amongst that '40 years' of consecutive Tory Government was 13 years of Labour Blair, Brown and financial crash.

You need to read the rest of my posts for the detail which shows, incontrovertibly, the vast majority of the damage was caused by tory policy.

 

Also, It was thatcher who moved the uk economy away from manufacturing to become more dependant on the casino that is global finance....Labour were just left to clean up the mess of previous Tory policy.

[citybiker]

Blair and brown deregulated the global finance system?

My post focus was on the UK not global aspect, IIRC it originated from the 'US sub prime market.

However, if I stand correct Brown was in office pre-during and post?


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[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

My post focus was on the UK not global aspect, IIRC it originated from the 'US sub prime market.

 

You're post doesn't have enough scope for the subject as it was a global financial crash not just limited to the UK.

 

Also, as the UK economy was so heavily dependant on the global financial system, thanks to Thatcher, changing the rules in the Uk would have meant finance/brokers etc taking their business elsewhere to other countries, it would have been a disaster if the UK had brought in draconian regulation when none of the other countries were doing so.