Two dead as foreigner on powerful bike hits local in Phetchabun

[flare]

I ride a big, fast bike, and I tend to ride over the speed limit most times if traffic allows- this doesn't mean 200kph, but usually 120kph+ as I like to stay ahead of traffic  and I feel it's easier for motorists to see a 'moving target' ( you might not agree with this- I've been riding here 17 years on fast bikes and this method works for me).  One issue, though, is that in Thailand, 'a bike is a bike' be it scooter or superbike, and few locals are adept at judging the approaching speed of anything bigger than a Honda Wave.  I have little doubt the OP was riding quickly (not necessarily speeding in a dangerous fashion) and the old guy on the scooter perceived him as being just another slow scooter rider and figured he had time to make his move, and was wrong.  There's blame on both sides- if I see someone waiting to pull across the road in front of me, I assume they're not going to wait and I slow down or at least keep a sharp eye on them- sometimes you miss it, though, and I would bet this is what happened here.

[chrissables]

7 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Doesnt matter both are death.Buy surely the guy was speeding on his big bike otherwise he would have used his breaks or avoided the crash.

That would depend on the timing of the bike pulling in front of him.

[SABloke]

"If the falang bike ended up 100m down the road its means he was speeding"

Does it? A quick google search shows that stopping distances with BRAKES applied at 100km/h vary from 40 - 80m! (Granted that's with cars which carry more momentum) 100km/h is 32m/sec so a bike travelling at that speeding could easily cover 100m or more.

I don't know if the guy was speeding or not, but your conclusion seems uncalculated and based on assumption.

[tandor]

22 hours ago, ezzra said:

Most unfortunate accident, with powerful bikes, the skills of the rider

to control the machine comes to play vividly, many, who has no experience

in riding super bikes are oblivious to that, not saying that this is the case

here, but it's known to happened frequently in places where you can hire

any bike you want, regardless whether you can ride it or not....

..its called speeding.

[Keesters]

22 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I wouldn't blame the locals for their stupid and dangerous behaviour - nobody educated them. What seems normal and reasonable for us farangs isn't for the locals. They just don't know.

I'm not sure how I would behave in traffic without having enjoyed a good education. Probably I would have understood after a long time and some bad experience - or might be I was dead by now

 

And not educating them is stupid and dangerous behavior  from  governments past and present.

 

Thai people know full well what is right and wrong when it comes to driving. But like in many aspects of Thai life it is the self that is only thought of and said self is invincible as things would never happen to them. Accidents like this prove them wrong but millions of "got away with it" every day will continue until 'self first' is stamped out.

 

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, chrissables said:

That would depend on the timing of the bike pulling in front of him.

Lets just pick up our discussion when the next motorbike plunges himself into death probably within hours u than can mention about importance of proper motorbike gear.

[DualSportBiker]

It is almost as if you have never driven or ridden your entire life. Add to that that you have no idea whether the Austrian was braking, or swerving, or both. All you are doing is making a series of assumptions based on a clear bias against anyone who rides a bike. It is ok to of sub-par intelligence, the trick is not to let anyone else know...

 

10 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Doesnt matter both are death.Buy surely the guy was speeding on his big bike otherwise he would have used his breaks or avoided the crash.

[DieterWiehe]

On 5/15/2017 at 8:38 AM, darksidedog said:

Front end damage on the KTM and side damage on the Cub, indeed suggests the old fella was crossing to get to the other side of the central reservation and probably didn't look at what was coming too well. The KTM must have been seriously traveling though, for the bikes to come to rest 100 meters down the road. RIP to both.

as usual crossing the Road without looking or misjudging the speed of the other vehicle . RIP to both.

[DualSportBiker]

You won't be passing any physics exams soon...

 

Friction is a function of weight and surface-area interaction. An object that slides with a large surface area touching the ground will slow faster than an object of the same weight with less area touching the ground. Speed, weight and surface interaction are the factors involved; speed and weight alone are insufficient.

 

The bend in question is on a dual-carriageway with a 110 speed limit. It is not a tight, low-speed corner. It is not a 'country road' by any UK definition. The heuristic I use is that I must always be able to come to a full stop in the road-space I can see. That means by the 'disappearing point' where the two curbs intersect. I've attached a sample from the road where the accident happened. 

 

Many posters are suggesting that road users to prepare for every eventuality and pick a speed for that. Given that cars, trucks and bikes mount the insufficient central divide often here, that would mean we all drive or ride at 40 in the left lane to allow sufficient time to stop when a Fortuner mounts the divide and flies in our direction at 140. Whether you can evade is another matter, but at least the armchair motorists of TV will not apportion to much blame provided you can provide evidence that you were riding to the conditions.

 

The road was dry, is not typically busy (I've ridden it a dozen times), and the corner offers sufficient visibility to drive or ride safely at close to 100 km/h. We know that the impact was hard and at speed so it is safe to assume that KTM was riding fast. What we don't know is if he had previously been riding much faster and had slowed for the corner, or the bike waiting to/crossing, or was riding at a consistent fast rate. We don't know how hard he was braking at impact, or for how long. You have convinced yourself that the only possible reason is excess speed and use your poor understanding of bikes and physics to justify it.

 

I suggest you stay on the soi, big roads might be too much for you.

 

 

6 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

The fact he wasn't able to avoid what lay on the other side of a blind bend and killed both himself and someone else proves he was speeding, have you never heard of the term  'driving to the conditions'?... the additional fact that his bike took 100m to stop after a collision(not just sliding) just backs this up further.  There could have been an accident on the other side of the blind, if he'd came round that bend and ran into a stationary vehicle which had just been involved in accident would you still be saying he wasn't speeding?

 

Some basic physics, a stationary bike does not slide very far regardles of how heavy it is, in fact a heavy bike will brake itself more than a lighter bike due to the incontravertable laws of friction.... the force that allows a bike to carry on for 100m after a collision and against the laws of friction is, wait for it,.... speed at point of impact.  The point being weight is nothing without speed.

 

It's kinda hilarious you making all these posts about what a safe and experienced driver you are but you don't have the first clue about what you should be doing when approaching a blind bend.

 

59% of all fatalities occur on country roads. These roads often have sharp bends and blind bends which can hide unexpected hazards. Stay in control and give yourself time to react because you never know what’s around the corner. THINK! Brake before the bend, not on it.

http://think.direct.gov.uk/country-roads.html

 

 

 

[metisdead]

Offensive posts have been removed. 

[rainwater]

On 5/15/2017 at 8:54 AM, Nowisee said:

There is a time and place for going fast. BUT, for the life of me I do not understand why people go so damn fast in congested (people/animals/other bikes) areas, places where high speed is not reasonable, places with very limited forward visibility (hills/corners), poor road conditions. 

I see tourists/expats (half the time drunk) riding these sport bikes and smaller motor bikes too at extreme speeds 4-5 times the speed limit daily where tourists/expats/locals are trying to cross the road in a 'cross walk' next to a mall in highly populated shopping areas and read about deaths from accidents monthly, but yet the law enforcement allow this to continue, humm what could the problem be... 

Edited May 16, 2017 by rainwater

[nandele]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The 'big bike' was probably traveling at a similar speed as the cars do on the same road. 

 

It looks to me as if the Big Bike fully expected to the old fella on the bike not to pull out, thus continued. 

 

At the last second when the old fella on the motorcycle pulled out in front of him the guy on the big bike had very little chance or time to avoid him. 

 

 

Those who are placing the blame at the hands of the guy riding the big bike seem to expect everyone to ride around at 25kmh... this is a little daft. The Guy crossing the road was doing so not at proper crossing point and did not see if the road was clear. 

 

It was the Old guys (small motorcycles) fault. The speed of the big bike clearly will have exaggerated the severity of the accident, but its likely he was traveling at 'road speed'. The road design is almost certainly also to blame, there could be barriers preventing the crossing point. 

 

However, ultimately the Old guy, crossing, without looking, without double checking that his path was completely clear is at fault for pulling out in to the path of another vehicle.

 

It is because of accidents such as this that I have a dash-cam... One day a motorcycle will pull out directly in front of my car on a similar road. I very much doubt I'll be doing 25 kmh when this happens - I'll be traveling up to the speed limit (depending on conditions, visibility etc).

It won't be my fault, although I'm sure some posters on here will claim if I can't stop in time when someone pulls out in front of me it would be my fault. Thats just rubbish as it would imply that the speeds we drive at need to be so ridiculously low it would take an age to get anywhere. 

 

 

 

You analysis seem pretty much correct, info are still limited at the moment, since everyone involved in this drama is still in shock but, as far as we know the guy on scooter, suddenly cut in front of Gerhard in order to cut across the highway trough the shortcut when he was about to overtake him....being no sign of u turn or ramps or whatever probably he was not expecting anyone to just cut in front of him for no reason, if my understanding is correct police also already blamed the scooter for the accident.

 

And just in order to try to limit all speculations: Gerhard was riding back to Bkk where he lived, together with other 2 bikes, and not on the way to Pattaya (I really do not understand where this came out..), he was a highly skilled rider well know in the biker community and with thousand of km done in the last 15 years here in Thailand. and not some improvised superbike rider fresh out of the plane.

 

Rarely I post, but it is really difficult to read some of the wild speculation and consideration by people that do not even have a clue of what they talk about, and show complete lack of respect for relatives and friends of the deceased that may be reading this forum.

 

 

[johng]

Its reported in the motorcycle forum of this site that Mr Gerhard was a Thaivisa forum member and a "Secrete Soi Rider"
R.I.P to both victims.

[smedly]

7 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

The fact he wasn't able to avoid what lay on the other side of a blind bend and killed both himself and someone else proves he was speeding, have you never heard of the term  'driving to the conditions'?... the additional fact that his bike took 100m to stop after a collision(not just sliding) just backs this up further.  There could have been an accident on the other side of the blind, if he'd came round that bend and ran into a stationary vehicle which had just been involved in accident would you still be saying he wasn't speeding?

 

Some basic physics, a stationary bike does not slide very far regardles of how heavy it is, in fact a heavy bike will brake itself more than a lighter bike due to the incontravertable laws of friction.... the force that allows a bike to carry on for 100m after a collision and against the laws of friction is, wait for it,.... speed at point of impact.  The point being weight is nothing without speed.

 

It's kinda hilarious you making all these posts about what a safe and experienced driver you are but you don't have the first clue about what you should be doing when approaching a blind bend.

 

59% of all fatalities occur on country roads. These roads often have sharp bends and blind bends which can hide unexpected hazards. Stay in control and give yourself time to react because you never know what’s around the corner. THINK! Brake before the bend, not on it.

http://think.direct.gov.uk/country-roads.html

 

 

 

that whole post is absolute nonsense and assumes many things that are in your head only 

 

Please quote where I claim to be a safe and experienced driver in any of my posts ......................I could well be but have personally claimed no such thing on this thread

[smedly]

18 minutes ago, nandele said:

You analysis seem pretty much correct, info are still limited at the moment, since everyone involved in this drama is still in shock but, as far as we know the guy on scooter, suddenly cut in front of Gerhard in order to cut across the highway trough the shortcut when he was about to overtake him....being no sign of u turn or ramps or whatever probably he was not expecting anyone to just cut in front of him for no reason, if my understanding is correct police also already blamed the scooter for the accident.

 

And just in order to try to limit all speculations: Gerhard was riding back to Bkk where he lived, together with other 2 bikes, and not on the way to Pattaya (I really do not understand where this came out..), he was a highly skilled rider well know in the biker community and with thousand of km done in the last 15 years here in Thailand. and not some improvised superbike rider fresh out of the plane.

 

Rarely I post, but it is really difficult to read some of the wild speculation and consideration by people that do not even have a clue of what they talk about, and show complete lack of respect for relatives and friends of the deceased that may be reading this forum.

 

 

well said

[Rimmer]

A  post has been removed, please see the following forum rule:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

 

[smedly]

8 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

 

 

It's kinda hilarious you making all these posts about what a safe and experienced driver you are but you don't have the first clue about what you should be doing when approaching a blind bend.

 

 

 

 

 

and just to add, there is absolutely nothing remotely hilarious about this thread.

 

two people have lost their lives................show some respect

[01322521959]

I now feel that the ability to ride big bikes here is pointless. Most roads just aren't designed for high speed. I have a 300, ride mostly in Bangkok and prefer to use my other smaller bike. Add to this Thais on the road and it all becomes a serious joke.

Sent from my i-mobile_i-STYLE_219 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[kiwikeith]

On ‎15‎/‎5‎/‎2560 at 8:59 AM, robblok said:

Looks like the old guy made an illegal crossover. The poor guy on the fast bike could have gone slower but the guy doing the illegal crossing was wrong. I hate it when people go against the flow of traffic.. do U turns the other way around and just cross roads where they cant cross roads.

 

Just crazy of locals crossing on a spot like that just to save a bit of money on fuel. We got a spot like that here too.. if they use the normal U turn it would be just 200 meter further up.. but that would mean an extra 400 meter.. and no that is too much so going against traffic is a better option.

 

I learn to adapt.. but its quite unsafe.

 

Last night a Thai dressed in black on a black bike with no lights went past me, only time before something happens..

 

Speed and stupidity at cause here.

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, rainwater said:

I see tourists/expats (half the time drunk) riding these sport bikes and smaller motor bikes too at extreme speeds 4-5 times the speed limit daily where tourists/expats/locals are trying to cross the road in a 'cross walk' next to a mall in highly populated shopping areas and read about deaths from accidents monthly, but yet the law enforcement allow this to continue, humm what could the problem be... 

4-5 times the speed limit?

 

You sure about that ''fact''?

 

Also, just tourists/expats eh...

[DualSportBiker]

1 hour ago, 01322521959 said:

I now feel that the ability to ride big bikes here is pointless. Most roads just aren't designed for high speed. I have a 300, ride mostly in Bangkok and prefer to use my other smaller bike. Add to this Thais on the road and it all becomes a serious joke.

Sent from my i-mobile_i-STYLE_219 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

All is not lost. Whilst this was a senseless and tragic accident, it was just that. For every accident here, there are millions of kilometers ridden everyday.

 

Invest a little time in planning your route and loading it to your GPS. There are plenty of small roads that crisscross the country. You can still make pace while avoiding Fortuners, large coaches, and high volumes of minivans. For example, I ride to Mae Sot from Bangkok and only use the highway as far as Suphanburi town. I'm on 3 and 4 digit roads all the way to the Tak-Mae Sot road. It takes me an extra hour at max and some extra 80 km, but the roads are virtually empty by comparison the main road from Nakhon Sawan to Tak.

 

Be careful though, there are people here who will question if your 300 is a 'big bike'! 

 

[rainwater]

7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

4-5 times the speed limit?

 

You sure about that ''fact''?

 

Also, just tourists/expats eh...

yes when approaching a crosswalk where the speed limit is much lower I see bikes going up to 70 mph, mainly tourists and expats on these crotch rockets in Pattaya near Tukom, the Thai's speed too but I don't ever see them going this fast on thier little bike like these careless and drunk tourists/expats, FYI: Thailand’s roads second-deadliest in world, UN agency finds - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/thailand-roads-second-deadliest-in-world-un-agency-finds-54626.php#sthash.5O3xu8TY.dpuf

[balo]

On 5/15/2017 at 8:59 AM, robblok said:

The poor guy on the fast bike could have gone slower but the guy doing the illegal crossing was wrong. I hate it when people go against the flow of traffic..

 

This is Thailand, expect the unexpected. That's why you will never find me on a big bike. 

Speed kills, if you want to ride here do it as slowly as possible. 

 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

25 minutes ago, rainwater said:

yes when approaching a crosswalk where the speed limit is much lower I see bikes going up to 70 mph, mainly tourists and expats on these crotch rockets in Pattaya near Tukom, the Thai's speed too but I don't ever see them going this fast on thier little bike like these careless and drunk tourists/expats, FYI: Thailand’s roads second-deadliest in world, UN agency finds - See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/thailand-roads-second-deadliest-in-world-un-agency-finds-54626.php#sthash.5O3xu8TY.dpuf

I think that you'll find Thai roads aren't dangerous because of expats/tourists alone.

 

I have an inkling Thais are equally responsible...

 

I've been here on and off for 15 years and I see bad drivers and irresponsible behaviour but it tends to be across all nationalities. 

 

As for 4-5 times the speed limit, yet to see that.

 

I live in BKK mind.

[oldlakey]

4 hours ago, nandele said:

You analysis seem pretty much correct, info are still limited at the moment, since everyone involved in this drama is still in shock but, as far as we know the guy on scooter, suddenly cut in front of Gerhard in order to cut across the highway trough the shortcut when he was about to overtake him....being no sign of u turn or ramps or whatever probably he was not expecting anyone to just cut in front of him for no reason, if my understanding is correct police also already blamed the scooter for the accident.

 

And just in order to try to limit all speculations: Gerhard was riding back to Bkk where he lived, together with other 2 bikes, and not on the way to Pattaya (I really do not understand where this came out..), he was a highly skilled rider well know in the biker community and with thousand of km done in the last 15 years here in Thailand. and not some improvised superbike rider fresh out of the plane.

 

Rarely I post, but it is really difficult to read some of the wild speculation and consideration by people that do not even have a clue of what they talk about, and show complete lack of respect for relatives and friends of the deceased that may be reading this forum.

 

 

Excellent Post Sir, thank you for the information concerning Gerhard and his riding experience and obvious abilities

A very sad loss

[eeyang wah]

I knew that foreigner-blaming headline would be wrong before I even read the article. 

How about: Two dead as idiot crosses road without looking.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, eeyang wah said:

I knew that foreigner-blaming headline would be wrong before I even read the article. 

How about: Two dead as idiot crosses road without looking.

 

Agreed....  the headline appears quite harsh and would appear to blame the foreigner rather than someone not looking.

 

Headline should read: Two dead as local takes short cut across highway. 

[CharlieH]

Motorcycle accident leaves 2 dead.

 

Better in my opinion.

[Grumpy Duck]

I have been wondering why motorcycles are prohibited on highways. I can understand keeping the small scooters off, but why full size motorcycles. Highways are so much safer, no cross traffic, no pedestrian traffic far fewer surprises. 

 

I have no idea where this occurred, but may the victims RIP and their survivors bear the loss painlessly. 

[oldlakey]

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Motorcycle accident leaves 2 dead.

 

Better in my opinion.

Concise yes but not exactly enticing, where Thailand and motorcycle accidents are concerned unfortunately

A bit more imagination needed without giving too much away

 

Motorcycle accident leaves 2 dead, foreigner involved

 

Now that would fit the bill nicely I reckon