Earthing of codominium wiring

[Puccini]

Is there a regulatory requirement that the electrical wiring of a residential building, eg a condominium building, must be earthed?

 

In the condominium building in Bangkok where I own a unit, all wall outlets accept three-pin plugs but none of them are earthed. If there is a legal requirement for earthing, I'd like to be able to point it out to the condominium management.

[RichCor]

If you own the condominium, aren't 'you' responsible for the wiring?

[Crossy]

This is a tough one, don't expect to find something like BS7671 or AS3000, best you will do is

 

มาตรฐานการติดตั้งทางไฟฟ้าสำหรับประเทศไทย พ.ศ. 2556

 

Which you can buy here https://eitstandard.com/product/002001-56/ obviously all in Thai, the domestic stuff is buried in amongst the industrial and HV.

 

How old is your condo? New build?

 

This thread is worth a look

 

[hugh2121]

"Is there a regulatory requirement that the electrical wiring of a residential building, eg a condominium building, must be earthed?" Doesn't seem to matter whether there is a regulation or not here.

As a Thai person once told me " Thai people don't like rules and regulations".

Edited June 20, 2017 by hugh2121

[The Deerhunter]

30 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

"Is there a regulatory requirement that the electrical wiring of a residential building, eg a condominium building, must be earthed?" Doesn't seem to matter whether there is a regulation or not here.

As a Thai person once told me " Thai people don't like rules and regulations".

Especially ones which cost money and interfere with profitability.  Try to find a good electrician (which in itself is a big ask) and try to get him to.make your place safe.  I don't think you will get anywhere with condo management or developer.  In Thailand electric standard s and workmanship are always suspect.  Sorry to say it but electrics quality would be one of the things I would look at before buying.  A Safety Cut RCD  and a connection to the building's earth would be a good place to start, if not a complete rewire which could still end up unsafe.   Two core wire to 3 pin plugs is real common here.  People only put 3 pin.plugs in so new appliances do not all need their plugs changed. You can actually buy appliances with the earth pin that unscrews for 2 pin wall sockets. Unsafe electrics are the rule here not the exception.  I added 2 more earth's into a laundry here only a month ago.  The washing machines discharge onto the floor so we are always paddling.  Scary stuff.  Welcome to Thailand. Sorry, not trying to be negative but it is something we all live with.

Edited June 20, 2017 by The Deerhunter

[RichCor]

16 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

 Scary stuff.  Welcome to Thailand. Sorry, not trying to be negative but it is something we all live with.

...or die from.

[shaurene]

As far as i know no regulations you must have earth in your house or condo or hotel even. If there is it just takes the brown envelop to the correct guy and you get the stamp. I had house re vamped in Khon Kaen and i had the earth wires put in especialy in the 2 bathrooms. I also had a place with 9 rooms to rent out in Pattaya. I checked the shower rooms no earth. Got a good sparky in i knew and had all the shower rooms earther, water heaters.

at the time 2 people had been eletricuted in the shower in 2 small room places in Pattaya. Find out from the main owner of the building.

where is it.

[peterb17]

Always used to wear rubber gloves to empty the dishwasher - it sizzled . 

 

Good luck 

[david555]

1 hour ago, The Deerhunter said:

Especially ones which cost money and interfere with profitability.  Try to find a good electrician (which in itself is a big ask) and try to get him to.make your place safe.  I don't think you will get anywhere with condo management or developer.  In Thailand electric standard s and workmanship are always suspect.  Sorry to say it but electrics quality would be one of the things I would look at before buying.  A Safety Cut RCD  and a connection to the building's earth would be a good place to start, if not a complete rewire which could still end up unsafe.   Two core wire to 3 pin plugs is real common here.  People only put 3 pin.plugs in so new appliances do not all need their plugs changed. You can actually buy appliances with the earth pin that unscrews for 2 pin wall sockets. Unsafe electrics are the rule here not the exception.  I added 2 more earth's into a laundry here only a month ago.  The washing machines discharge onto the floor so we are always paddling.  Scary stuff.  Welcome to Thailand. Sorry, not trying to be negative but it is something we all live with.

Repairing that is already a first step in safety ....then the wiring earthing  second  

[Foozool]

Buy a voltmeter and check if the is any voltage between body of your apliences( if apliences are not earthed) and earth wire. 

If you see any woltage between, then you need to get the apliences fixed or think of new ones. 

[cat handler]

Regulations? You do realise it's Thailand right?

 

[Crossy]

@Puccini what exactly are you trying to achieve?

 

Since you own the unit what goes on inside is essentially your business, no earths, install them. Unless it's a new build I doubt you'll get much change from the management and even then is it really worth the effort?

 

There have been requirements for front end RCDs, earthing, 3-pin outlets, MEN connections for a significant time, certainly back to the time we arrived in 2004, but, until recently, they have been largely ignored. I know of new homes that are being wired with only 2-pin outlets which are still getting past the MEA/PEA inspections.

 

Thoughts:-

• Run grounds to the outlets that will have Class-1 appliances plugged in (mostly your kitchen, washer and desktop PC).
• Replace the 3-pin with 2-pin in other locations where you will only use Class-2 (double insulated) appliances which is pretty well everything else these days.
• Make sure you have an RCD/RCBO in the distribution board (look for a "Test" button)
• If you have a shower heater pop the lid off (power off) and check for a ground wire, run one.
• Have a look in the distribution board, has a ground been brought to the unit? If not can you access building steel, metal water pipes (NOT the fire pipe) to create a ground?

 

 

[tigermoth]

17 hours ago, RichCor said:

If you own the condominium, aren't 'you' responsible for the wiring?

No. The original developer, contractor is and it is the responsibility of the council building inspector to make sure it conforms.

[bankruatsteve]

3 hours ago, tigermoth said:

No. The original developer, contractor is and it is the responsibility of the council building inspector to make sure it conforms.

I'm guessing the structure passed an electrical "inspection".  I wonder what that cost versus just running ground wire?

[natway09]

The law is clear in that the earth goes as far as the buzz board behind your circuit breakers.

normally from there only 2 wires P & N. Most modern appliances are double insulated so you should be OK

Installing a cut out which you can sensitivity set yourself is a good idea but can also be a pain as even a small surge

can set it off.

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

The law is clear in that the earth goes as far as the buzz board behind your circuit breakers.

 

Please can you quote the clause in มาตรฐานการติดตั้งทางไฟฟ้าสำหรับประเทศไทย พ.ศ. 2556  which states this.

 

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

normally from there only 2 wires P & N. Most modern appliances are double insulated so you should be OK

 

Partially true, but have you seen a double insulated front loading washer, microwave, grill, desktop computer?

 

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

Installing a cut out which you can sensitivity set yourself is a good idea but can also be a pain as even a small surge can set it off.

 

You mean as opposed to the pain of you dying from electric shock?

 

[The Deerhunter]

21 hours ago, RichCor said:

...or die from.

I was going to say that but deferred at the last moment.

[Puccini]

On 6/21/2017 at 2:03 AM, Crossy said:

what exactly are you trying to achieve?

 

Since you own the unit what goes on inside is essentially your business, no earths, install them. Unless it's a new build I doubt you'll get much change from the management and even then is it really worth the effort?

 

Oops, I hadn't thought that far. My actual concern, therefore, should be whether the building is earthed, whether the earth wire behind the safety switch box is earthed, and if it is not, whether there is a legal requirement that it should be earthed. I guess I need to have a look behind the switch box, for a start.

 

The building is over 20 years old, I believe.

[RichCor]

12 minutes ago, Puccini said:

My actual concern, therefore, should be whether the building is earthed, whether the earth wire behind the safety switch box is earthed [...]

It's a bit difficult for a 'building' not to be earthed, even if the electrical isn't offering it. The building's metal infrastructure should still offer an Ufer Earth Ground connection.

 

Suggest you do a search of older ThaiVisa threads on the topic  -- may help you understand your options

 

Electrical wiring in View Talay 1 & 2 condo units
Started by wpcoe, March 2, 2015

 

Grounding Of Electricity In Condo
Started by Firefan, March 16, 2012

 

Etc, etc...

[Crossy]

To test your earth, assuming you don't have access to an earth-loop impedance tester.

 

Warning - Care required.

 

Get a small conventional light bulb, 15W or so should do the trick. Connect one end to your "earth" wire, carefully touch the other end to one of the live connections in your board (obviously you need the power on, take care). If the ground is half-decent the lamp will light. The brighter the better.

 

As a 20+ year old building it was likely compliant when it was built even if there's no earth. Just like the UK the Thai wiring regulations are not retrospective.