Australian who fled accident scene and was chased by police hits and kills woman 50 in Udon

[owl sees all]

16 minutes ago, namoi said:

arguing that the deceased was totally to blame

I've followed the terrible incident from early on and I've yet to see a post "arguing that the deceased was totally to blame". If you have correct me on this please!!

 

I am not going to speculate on what the police saw or what he did before the accident. I am simply looking at the evidence in the vid.

 

The poor lady pulled into the path of the pick-up before noticing that she couldn't get across due to a bike coming from her left the view of which was impaired by the light coloured pick-up which is in front of the Oz one. She almost came to a stop.

 

He looks to be going too fast considering the environment. Didn't try to slow up. In fact he nearly lost it half way round the bend.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by owl sees all

[Stevemercer]

As a point of law, it is totally irrelevant to the fatal accident whether the Australian was in a previous accident, and failed to stop. There are so many ifs and buts that could have changed the timing of the car and motorbike coming together. Sure, the Australian could face charges for failing to stop at the first accident, but that has no bearing on the charges he will face for the second accident.

 

Any insurance payouts will be 50/50, reflecting 50% blame on each of the parties in contributing to the fatal collision. Of course, if the Australian was drunk, his insurance (if he has any) will be null and void and he will be up for all costs, including compensation.

 

Based on precedent, the Australian will have to pay in the order of 500,000 Baht compensation to the family. He will be charged with various offences, but probably won't serve any jail time.

 

Of course, he will have the deaths and tragedy he has caused on his conscience and, if suffering depression or anxiety (as indicated by his medication), has a 75% chance of doing himself in within two years due to the remorse (being unable to live with the consequences of his actions). Certainly, his life in Thailand is now effectively over and he will need to move back to Australia when the legal processes have run their course.

[giddyup]

49 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

I don't understand your logic at all.

if he had done the right thing and stopped to report the first 2 collisions people (including the police) would most likely have identified his distressed state of mind and may have even stopped him temporarily from driving any further. At the very least he would have had the opportunity to calm down.

You are asking for something to happen that clearly didn't. Too many ifs in these responses.

[Asiantravel]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You are asking for something to happen that clearly didn't. Too many ifs in these responses.

well I have to disagree with you because his initial bad action set off a chain of events which resulted in tragedy.

and your argument so far in no way justifies your somewhat bizarre call to try to apportion part of the blame to this innocent lady

[Artisi]

9 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

As a point of law, it is totally irrelevant to the fatal accident whether the Australian was in a previous accident, and failed to stop. There are so many ifs and buts that could have changed the timing of the car and motorbike coming together. Sure, the Australian could face charges for failing to stop at the first accident, but that has no bearing on the charges he will face for the second accident.

 

Any insurance payouts will be 50/50, reflecting 50% blame on each of the parties in contributing to the fatal collision. Of course, if the Australian was drunk, his insurance (if he has any) will be null and void and he will be up for all costs, including compensation.

 

Based on precedent, the Australian will have to pay in the order of 500,000 Baht compensation to the family. He will be charged with various offences, but probably won't serve any jail time.

 

Of course, he will have the deaths and tragedy he has caused on his conscience and, if suffering depression or anxiety (as indicated by his medication), has a 75% chance of doing himself in within two years due to the remorse (being unable to live with the consequences of his actions). Certainly, his life in Thailand is now effectively over and he will need to move back to Australia when the legal processes have run their course.

Well done, everything is now done and dusted - you have just saved the police, the legal beagles,  and the courts hours of work, they should be able to wind up all the loose ends by late today. 

[wow64]

1 minute ago, Asiantravel said:

well I have to disagree with you because his initial bad action set off a chain of events which resulted in tragedy.

and your argument so far in no way justifies your somewhat bizarre call to try to apportion part of the blame to this innocent lady

It's clearly the fault of the police for chasing him and shooting out his tires.

[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, wow64 said:

It's clearly the fault of the police for chasing him and shooting out his tires.

What part of shooting the tyres resulted in the accident? 

[owl sees all]

17 minutes ago, wow64 said:

It's clearly the fault of the police for chasing him and shooting out his tires.

Where did the police shoot out the tyres!? Maybe they did but the pick-up didn't appear to have problems in that regard (flat tyres etc.).

 

The police were 40 seconds behind the Oz pick-up on the vid.

Edited June 25, 2017 by owl sees all

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Tilacme said:

Everything you say tells me that you are little changed by your time in Thailand or the myriad of Thais you say you have around you.  Not, an uncommon trait for those who purport to own the moral high ground in any country.  If you were to climb down from your false mantle and actually listen to Thais, you will see that louse1953 is more in turn with Thai culture that you.  Just locking someone up in jail is of no use to the family, what they want is for the culprit to stand and face the whole family, show humbly respect, be honest with remorse and, to make financial retribution.  Be edified!

Everything you say tells me that you like to be judgemental about people that you don’t know and don't know anything about. There is no moral high ground as far as I am concerned, only what I believe to be right and what I know to be wrong. If you think that elevates me to some false mantle or moral high ground, that is your issue, not mine. I only speak honestly about what I feel to be right, there is nothing false about anything I say. I know that poor Thai families are more interested in financial compensation than seeing the culprit jailed. 

 

I also know that this does not necessarily apply to Thai families that are reasonably well off, and I reject the generalisation that it applies to all Thai families.

 

The issue that bothers me most though, is this mindset that seems to exist amongst many farangs and rich Thai’s, that it doesn't matter if you kill someone from a poor family, because you can buy your way out of jail; I don't care if you consider that moralising, I just cannot accept that as right, and insulting me further won't change my view …… PEACE

 

P.S. I assume you meant more in tune

[Eloquent pilgrim]

33 minutes ago, wow64 said:

It's clearly the fault of the police for chasing him and shooting out his tires.

I believe they shot out tyres after the accident, to prevent him getting away; which was rather unnecessary considering that he had a motorcycle wedged under his pick up truck and had already tried to drive away with a predictable lack of success ??

[NanLaew]

On 6/23/2017 at 11:51 PM, balo said:

 

Really , I think they are both to blame here.   Observe the car from the beginning of the video , the speed is just way too high , yes she was trying to cross the road and was expecting the car to see her and slow down , a big mistake from her part. 

 

 

A lot of people are passing judgement from looking at the video of a narrow stretch of road that, unless they live in Udon, they are totally unfamiliar with.

 

Many have got it correct with the pickup going too fast.

 

Unfortunately, just as many have got it wrong with blaming the victim.

 

This stretch of road is usually quiet and traffic slower due to it narrowing before the bend in the road just before the point of impact and a concurrent junction/bend in the road just after the point of impact (out of shot left of camera) where it gets even narrower. If you look at the speed of the pickup that passes ahead of the victims motorcycle, that is the usual speed for cars and trucks. It is too narrow to go faster unless you are on 2 wheels. Based on this, even if she saw the speeding pickup (momentarily blocked from view by the slower pickup and she would have been looking left for the break in traffic) she wouldn't have expected any vehicle to have closed the gap so soon. Look how close the fast pickup was to passing the slower one just after impact. He was simply flying. If he hadn't hit the motorbike, he would have taken something else out as the left fork takes one onto narrower, 2-way lanes. Since he was evading arrest, I doubt he would have turned right at the fork as that just loops around the lake and back to main roads. Despite being quiet, this is not a high speed section of road and I would say all motorcyclists rely on this when they come across larger vehicles; they expect that they will give way to motorbikes. I drive this route two or three times daily, and I give way to them as it's too narrow for passing and there's no wide verges.

 

The blame lies 100% with the pickup driver.

 

 

 

In the above images, the driver was moving south to north (bottom to top). The camera is located directly north of the accident overlooking the railroad marshaling yards (SRT camera).

Edited June 25, 2017 by NanLaew

[Eloquent pilgrim]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

A lot of people are passing judgement from looking at the video of a narrow stretch of road that, unless they live in Udon, they are totally unfamiliar with.

 

Many have got it correct with the pickup going too fast.

 

Unfortunately, just as many have got it wrong with blaming the victim.

 

This stretch of road is usually quiet and traffic slower due to it narrowing before the bend in the road just before the point of impact and a concurrent junction/bend in the road just after the point of impact (out of shot left of camera) where it gets even narrower. If you look at the speed of the pickup that passes ahead of the victims motorcycle, that is the usual speed for cars and trucks. It is too narrow to go faster unless you are on 2 wheels. Based on this, even if she saw the speeding pickup (momentarily blocked from view by the slower pickup and she would have been looking left for the break in traffic) she wouldn't have expected any vehicle to have closed the gap so soon. Look how close the fast pickup was to passing the slower one just after impact. He was simply flying. If he hadn't hit the motorbike, he would have taken something else out as the left fork takes one onto narrower, 2-way lanes. Since he was evading arrest, I doubt he would have turned right at the fork as that just loops around the lake and back to main roads. Despite being quiet, this is not a high speed section of road and I would say all motorcyclists rely on this when they come across larger vehicles; they expect that they will give way to motorbikes. I drive this route two or three times daily, and I give way to them as it's too narrow for passing and there's no wide verges.

 

The blame lies 100% with the pickup driver.

 

 

 

In the above images, the driver was moving south to north (bottom to top). The camera is located directly north of the accident overlooking the railroad marshaling yards (SRT camera).

Well done .....I  don't know the area or the road and I was hoping for a post from someone that does; when I first viewed the video, my initial reaction was that he was going way too fast. If you see how far behind the first pick up he is at the start of the video, and then how quickly he catches up with it, you know he is going far too fast. It looks as if he would have run into the back of the first pick up if he hadn't hit the motorcycle ..... good post .... thank you .... condolences once again to the victim's family  ?? 

[owl sees all]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I believe they shot out tyres after the accident, to prevent him getting away; which was rather unnecessary considering that he had a motorcycle wedged under his pick up truck and had already tried to drive away with a predictable lack of success ??

When the police arrived on the scene the pillion police man did draw his gun and ran to open the pick-up passenger door. As he then ran round the back he seems to point the gun at the rear near-side tyre. Maybe this is the moment, Can't see what he did the other side of the pick-up.

 

They dragged the Oz out. He was some way from the pick-up when they forced him to the ground; and all this happened within 20 seconds.

 

Maybe they shot some more later but not shown on the vid.

[owl sees all]

15 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 Look how close the fast pickup was to passing the slower one just after impact. He was simply flying. If he hadn't hit the motorbike, he would have taken something else out as the left fork takes one onto narrower, 2-way lanes.

I agree here.

I reckon he would have spanked the pick-up in front a just a couple of seconds.

[Tilacme]

28 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Everything you say tells me that you like to be judgemental about people that you don’t know and don't know anything about. There is no moral high ground as far as I am concerned, only what I believe to be right and what I know to be wrong. If you think that elevates me to some false mantle or moral high ground, that is your issue, not mine. I only speak honestly about what I feel to be right, there is nothing false about anything I say. I know that poor Thai families are more interested in financial compensation than seeing the culprit jailed. 

 

I also know that this does not necessarily apply to Thai families that are reasonably well off, and I reject the generalisation that it applies to all Thai families.

 

The issue that bothers me most though, is this mindset that seems to exist amongst many farangs and rich Thai’s, that it doesn't matter if you kill someone from a poor family, because you can buy your way out of jail; I don't care if you consider that moralising, I just cannot accept that as right, and insulting me further won't change my view …… PEACE

 

P.S. I assume you meant more in tune

There you go again moralising on a group of people, in this case rich thais and farangs. 

 

However, I note you have conceded the point of Thai culture so you owe louise1953 a kho thos .

 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, Asiantravel said:

well I have to disagree with you because his initial bad action set off a chain of events which resulted in tragedy.

and your argument so far in no way justifies your somewhat bizarre call to try to apportion part of the blame to this innocent lady

if he had done the right thing

 

But he didn't did he? You want to rewrite history.

[NanLaew]

27 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

When the police arrived on the scene the pillion police man did draw his gun and ran to open the pick-up passenger door. As he then ran round the back he seems to point the gun at the rear near-side tyre. Maybe this is the moment, Can't see what he did the other side of the pick-up.

Use the pause button. The motorbike cops arrive at 00:46. Pillion cop dismounts, draws his gun and runs to the passenger door and at 0:50 fires shots into the front passenger-side tire BEFORE he opens the passenger door at 00:53.

[robblok]

@nanlaew,

 

I was one who was wrong then, it looked like she crossed in a bend and that is never a good idea.. on your map it looks totally different. I was saying before that the car was speeding.. I hope the guy gets all he deserves.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

37 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

There you go again moralising on a group of people, in this case rich thais and farangs. 

 

However, I note you have conceded the point of Thai culture so you owe louise1953 a kho thos .

 

So do you think as long as you have enough money, it's morally acceptable to kill someone and pay to avoid prison ??

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

So do you think as long as you have enough money, it's morally acceptable to kill someone and pay to avoid prison ??

The Thais seem to think so. Do you know of a case where a Thai has gone to prison for killing someone with their vehicle, as well as paying compensation?

[PremiumLane]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:35 AM, ezzra said:

This moron idiot now is going to give all us foreigners driving cars

a bad name, and there's nothing more entertaining for the local people

than pointing fingers at foreigners.. what  a complete imbecilic dunce

not to own to a minor accident and be done with it....

No he isn't,  overreacting again I see

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The Thais seem to think so. Do you know of a case where a Thai has gone to prison for killing someone with their vehicle, as well as paying compensation?

 

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The Thais seem to think so. Do you know of a case where a Thai has gone to prison for killing someone with their vehicle, as well as paying compensation?

I wasn't asking if the Thai's seem to think so .....

[norfolkandchance]

Is there going to be a vote on who was to blame at the end of this. It's all getting a bit repetitive

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I wasn't asking if the Thai's seem to think so .....

In this case, and other like it, it doesn't matter what a falang thinks, it's not going to change anything.

[wow64]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Where did the police shoot out the tyres!? Maybe they did but the pick-up didn't appear to have problems in that regard (flat tyres etc.).

 

The police were 40 seconds behind the Oz pick-up on the vid.

Explains the way he was driving as he was being shot at.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

In this case, and other like it, it doesn't matter what a falang thinks, it's not going to change anything.

 

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

In this case, and other like it, it doesn't matter what a falang thinks, it's not going to change anything.

Yes giddyup .... I fully understand that and in this case it will just be a matter of how much money the farang has.

..... but I am being hounded,  sneered at and accused of moralising for finding it unacceptable that you can kill another human being and pay to avoid jail because they come from a poor family  ... so I wanted to know if this person finds it morally acceptable 

And btw do you ??

[wow64]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Yes giddyup .... I fully understand that and in this case it will just be a matter of how much money the farang has.

..... but I am being hounded,  sneered at and accused of moralising for finding it unacceptable that you can kill another human being and pay to avoid jail because they come from a poor family  ... so I wanted to know if this person finds it morally acceptable 

And btw do you ??

Nothing wrong with paying your way out of jail.

 

You obviously don't understand local customs. 

[Tilacme]

35 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I wasn't asking if the Thai's seem to think so .....

Listen carefully pilgrim, you now live in Thailand, start listening to the thais, perhaps starting with your unfortunate wife, and stop moralising on something you neither understand or want to learn.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

Listen carefully pilgrim, you now live in Thailand, start listening to the thais, perhaps starting with your unfortunate wife, and stop moralising on something you neither understand or want to learn.

I don't trade personal insults online which you obviously like to do  ..... but I notice that although you continually berate me for moralising, you haven't answered the question ……do you think as long as you have enough money, it's morally acceptable to kill someone and pay to avoid prison ??

[Eloquent pilgrim]

32 minutes ago, wow64 said:

Nothing wrong with paying your way out of jail.

 

You obviously don't understand local customs. 

Did you actually read my comment ??

 

It is nothing to do with understanding any customs

 

It is questioning the morality of them ....... but that is something you wouldn't understand