Patong - The Wake

[Lashay]

On 8/9/2020 at 10:41 AM, Agusts said:

No idea when they will allow some foreign tourists in, they don't even want to talk about it right now, having zero covid19 cases become a curse !!!? They don't want to spoil it...????

 

Well after TAT saying maybe not this year, last week, now CCSA are saying maybe starting trials next month.

 

Good news is TAT have been wrong every-time for last 5 months and CCSA and CAAT are the ones really in charge...

[Agusts]

Big Bike motorcycle festival in Patong is now on (started yesterday) and it is in Bangla road this year, come and support it, today and tomorrow...

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Lashay said:

Well after TAT saying maybe not this year, last week, now CCSA are saying maybe starting trials next month.

 

Good news is TAT have been wrong every-time for last 5 months and CCSA and CAAT are the ones really in charge...

Well we can only hope that they are wrong again, although it seems as though one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, but since when has that been new news to anyone who lives here!

 

I've got friends in the UK, Canada and Australia who are just longing to get back here, but have just about abandoned all hope for at least the next six months, so I hope they are wrong.

 

Locally, it's pitiful seeing the queues of people, waiting in line for their food handout, and it's also pitiful to see more and more small businesses closing.

 

My favourite Italian restaurant had been hanging on, but was forced to close a few days ago because of lack of custom, that and the fact that his landlord, who had kindly reduced his rent by 50%, then wanted to put it back up to the full amount – – no go with just one or two customers a night.

 

That was a bit of a bummer because I was planning to go out tomorrow evening with a couple of friends and dine at that very restaurant, so I'm now looking at other places in which to eat, and enquiring at the Wine Connection, I was told that they closed at 8 PM, which doesn't give much leeway as regards eating, drinking and then going out to meander around an almost empty Bangla.

 

More shops have closed in Jungceylon and the shoppers in Big C seem to be dwindling as the days go on.

 

A friend of mine said just recently that some people were making big money out of this lockdown, but I can't see how this can be the case. Sure the wealthy folk may be out and about snapping up bargain properties in order to rent them out again, but I haven't seen much of that, nor of any "bargain properties".
 

[Patong2]

That's sad Xylopphone

 

If it's any consolation we have no restaurants open here to eat at either.

 

Auckland has gone back to level 3 because there has been a total shambles at the border and now people are just p*** off and to a larger degree ignoring it. Few masks and not a lot of extreme social distancing, just sensible spacing.

[sebastion]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:19 PM, xylophone said:

Well we can only hope that they are wrong again, although it seems as though one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, but since when has that been new news to anyone who lives here!

 

I've got friends in the UK, Canada and Australia who are just longing to get back here, but have just about abandoned all hope for at least the next six months, so I hope they are wrong.

 

Locally, it's pitiful seeing the queues of people, waiting in line for their food handout, and it's also pitiful to see more and more small businesses closing.

 

My favourite Italian restaurant had been hanging on, but was forced to close a few days ago because of lack of custom, that and the fact that his landlord, who had kindly reduced his rent by 50%, then wanted to put it back up to the full amount – – no go with just one or two customers a night.

 

That was a bit of a bummer because I was planning to go out tomorrow evening with a couple of friends and dine at that very restaurant, so I'm now looking at other places in which to eat, and enquiring at the Wine Connection, I was told that they closed at 8 PM, which doesn't give much leeway as regards eating, drinking and then going out to meander around an almost empty Bangla.

 

More shops have closed in Jungceylon and the shoppers in Big C seem to be dwindling as the days go on.

 

A friend of mine said just recently that some people were making big money out of this lockdown, but I can't see how this can be the case. Sure the wealthy folk may be out and about snapping up bargain properties in order to rent them out again, but I haven't seen much of that, nor of any "bargain properties".
 

Plenty of bargain properties around now

[KarenBravo]

17 minutes ago, sebastion said:

Plenty of bargain properties around now

And will you buy one?

[sebastion]

13 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

And will you buy one?

For sure, there was one I missed out on down in Rawaii. Just the land for 1.5 million baht...thats unbelievable.

Great time to invest in real estate now

[HighPriority]

1 hour ago, sebastion said:

For sure, there was one I missed out on down in Rawaii. Just the land for 1.5 million baht...thats unbelievable.

Great time to invest in real estate now

It may well be for those with balls of steel and deep pockets... let us know how you get on ????????

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

It may well be for those with balls of steel and deep pockets... let us know how you get on ????????

Quote. "Great time to invest in real estate now".

 

But then again he would say that..............

[sebastion]

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

Quote. "Great time to invest in real estate now".

 

But then again he would say that..............

I actually think that it is a great time to lowball people wanting to get out. Phuket should recover in about 5 years. However I think that Patong, Nai Harn, Bang Tao area will still be very very overpriced. You are best off investing in Phuket Town, Chalong, some parts of Rawaii for houses. Kata and Karon for commercial properties is really good value now. 

[xylophone]

Getting away from the "property investment" angle because I don't know anybody who has made money over the past 10 years in it, so perhaps my view is somewhat clouded.

 

Despite the fact that the lockdown is on, on Saturday night there was a big shindig in Bangla Road to celebrate "Bike Week" and I didn't expect it to be much, however I was really taken aback by how crowded it was, mostly with Thais I have to admit, but with a smattering of farangs around the place, and of course loads of big bikes, ranging from the smooth and powerful to the outrageously decorated large beasts!

 

There were plenty of small tents on one side of Bangla selling food and snacks mostly and these seemed to be doing fairly good business, and a few bars were open, with some of them packed to the gunwales, again mostly with Thai folk.

 

There was small police presence, unobtrusive in the main, and anyway I never saw any problems and the bikers were very well behaved from what I could see.

 

Had eaten at Wine Connection in Jungceylon with a couple of friends and it was fairly good value, especially as one could buy a bottle of their wine and drink it at the table with no markup, and the food was pretty good, and there were a total of about 10 customers in all, including us, although they herded us out pretty sharply as 8 PM arrived (official closing time).

 

Had a couple of drinks in The Black Horse in Bangla whilst observing the goings-on, and the huge "Bar Funk" would have been very pleased with the bike event, because it was well crowded, again with Thai folk, and many Thai girls, probably on the lookout for a pickup, and I observed more attractive Thai girls walking up and down Bangla than I have seen in years...... it was an oglers delight!

 

I then made my way to a friends bar which is in the old car park behind Soi Sanabai and had a drink with him and his wife before heading over to the large bar and the other part of the car park, called "Hippie Road", where they have live bands playing, and lo and behold a few of my favourite band members that used to play in Red Hot were also due to play, along with their lovely, fantastic-voiced lady singer.

 

Unfortunately I thought they were due on at 11 PM, however it turns out that they were late and didn't get onstage till about 12:30 AM, by which time I was "well oiled", although I did belt out three numbers which got a good response.

 

However after making a complete and utter fool of myself with a young lady I met there, I decided it was time to get a motorbike taxi home, which I did, and I woke up with a hangover the next morning and felt rough the next day, so although the bike week evening was a welcome change, I will have to get back into a normal drinking routine, rather than going "mad" to celebrate "the extremely short opening of lockdown".

 

It would be nice to think that extra revenue was generated for a few businesses, and I would suppose that would be the case, however "one swallow does not a summer make"...........unfortunately.

 

[Agusts]

+1 on big bike event, hadn't see Bangla like that for over 5 months...

 

Some food festival events around Phuket is coming up, see the schedule and locations on the usual websites...

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/25/2017 at 6:56 PM, jenifer d said:

Patong is now soulless and overrun with new development, but the tourist numbers, even in the middle of December,

were demonstrably down- i was quite saddened, Patong is dying, and i'm not sure if it can be rescued... 

Perhaps it would have died anyway, if it was soulless. Tourists want more from a holiday than a sterile environment. IMO Thais lost their way when the western tourists flooded in and wanted a reason to up the prices, ergo the new development.

However, if they destroy the reason why a place is popular why would western customers still go there?

Hence, IMO, the push to the Chinese mass tourism- they, apparently, think anywhere out of China is great, no matter how devoid of sanuk. Quantity over quality became the message.

Now, that sound of nothing going on is chickens going home to roost.

Had they tried to attract the western retirement community they'd probably still be going gangbusters.

 

 

[KarenBravo]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Had they tried to attract the western retirement community they'd probably still be going gangbusters.

 

True. Rawai (also called God's waiting-room) now has the busiest night-life on the island. It also helped that several bars have put their prices down.

[zzzzz]

there 2 bars in Kamala that have customers from 9 am -......

late afternoon a dozen or so guys siting there drinking everyday, night time,...no idea as i dont venture out

the other 8 or so, (except Divers)  are lucky to get 8 customers/day

3 bars/restaurants on the beach do a good business with 60 baht happy hour beers from 5 pm

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

On 6/25/2017 at 1:56 PM, jenifer d said:

Patong is now soulless and overrun with new development, but the tourist numbers, even in the middle of December,

were demonstrably down- i was quite saddened, Patong is dying, and i'm not sure if it can be rescued... 

Perhaps it would have died anyway, if it was soulless. Tourists want more from a holiday than a sterile environment. IMO Thais lost their way when the western tourists flooded in and wanted a reason to up the prices, ergo the new development.

Taking the point that Jennifer D mentioned in her post of 2017, Patong had been on the decline for quite a few years prior to that and what was at one time a hugely successful and popular party town was becoming less frequented, and a couple of things that happened back in the late 2000's and early 2010 or thereabouts heralded that decline.

 

I helped an invalid friend around his bar in Soi Eric and that place was absolutely packed, so much so that chairs and tables were put in the middle of the Soi to be able to accommodate the thronging masses, and indeed those were the halcyon days when big profits were made on bars, and partygoers would stay on until well into the next morning.

 

So the place was popular with tourists who wanted to party, and also had the privilege of enjoying a relatively good beach and prices were about right for the services they purchased.

 

Then a gradual downturn happened and maybe others didn't see it but certainly I was able to measure it through the takings at my friends bar and also the visitors from overseas whom he regularly had visit, but had died off somewhat.

 

The bar scene was still okay and because good money had been made previously, bars were being set up and sold at ridiculous prices, and it was at this time that my friend decided to sell his bar because he saw no future in it because of the falling takings and custom, and that was a very shrewd move.

 

Not long after, the whole of Soi Eric was demolished and it is now called Soi Freedom and has never, ever reached the dizzy heights of its previous incarnation. The thought of never-ending profits and greed, drove the bar scene as well as the development of small overpriced condos, and many, even years after they were built cannot be sold for more than was paid for them years ago.

 

That is one view, but if one adds all of the other events that were taking place around this time into the mix, the decline of Patong is easy to see..........prices went up, there were Tuk Tuk and jet-ski mafia rip-offs, then later on the debacle about deckchairs on the beaches, not to mention the poor infrastructure which wasn't really coping way back then, with awful smells, badly fitted drains and large potholes around the place.

 

Of course accompanying all of this was the poor service which was delivered, because with so many tourists around the place, it didn't really matter what service was delivered because there was always someone else to fit the bill, or that was the thinking way back then.

 

All in all, this place was not considered "value for money" any more and as  both "Jennifer D" and 'thaibeachlovers" have said it became soulless, a place for rip-offs and offering nothing in return for tourists loyalty, in fact it became a place where the local authorities didn't really bother about the infrastructure, and the developers thought they could throw anything up and sell it at a ridiculous price........take everything out of the place and put nothing back.

 

Of course, talk of corruption and involvement of the BIB did not help, and worldwide, currencies were under pressure, and other holiday destinations began to sharpen their act and to value the custom that holidaymakers brought them, totally different to what was happening in Patong, where holidaymakers were seen to be ripe for rip-offs and price gouging.

 

Also the demographics were changing and I also noticed that, because there were more families visiting here, but nothing was put in place to accommodate these families with younger children, and on so many occasions I remember seeing parents bringing their children down Bangla Road to have a look, because it was a "party atmosphere" but outside of that there was nothing much for the children to do, nothing to engage them.

 

Despite all of this, hotels and apartments were still being built and one only has to look around Patong to see the amount of unfinished developments, some failed because they ran out of money, others because of corruption and poor planning and others purely because the developers hadn't realised that the "halcyon days" had passed.

 

I'm sure I have missed out a few more reasons for the demise of Patong, but the above should cover many of them, and now with this virus lockdown, I'm not sure that this place will ever recover fully, certainly not to its glory days.
 

[KarenBravo]

Another reason was the rise of the internet.

Another is that the younger generation is more puritanical than their predecessors.

[ChasingTheSun]

2 hours ago, zzzzz said:

there 2 bars in Kamala that have customers from 9 am -......

late afternoon a dozen or so guys siting there drinking everyday, night time,...no idea as i dont venture out

the other 8 or so, (except Divers)  are lucky to get 8 customers/day

3 bars/restaurants on the beach do a good business with 60 baht happy hour beers from 5 pm

From the areas I have recently observed in Kamala, Phuket Town, and Bangtao, it is a little slower than a normal low season, but life still goes on.

 

Kata, Karon, Patong have a relatively very-high proportion of tourist accommodation vs local/expat residents, and thus naturally they are deadsville until the borders are reopened. 
 

The great news for Phuket is that there is still no real alternative to Phuket in Asia, so things will definitely  come back to “normal” in the prime tourist hotspots once the kungflu hysteria is in the rear view mirror. 

ps- for those that think Vietnam may be the next best thing....I have been traveling to Vietnam for business and tourism many times since 1997. My last visit was in January of this year. Unfortunately, it has been going downhill fast in terms of all the things that made it great once. Its getting much more crowded, expensive, and dirty each year. Tourist scams are getting worse as well. Sadly, there have been huge negative changes overall in Vietnam over the last 5 years in particular.
 

There remains to be NO single place in Vietnam that can come close to challenging Phuket overall in terms of tourist attractions.

[sebastion]

23 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Another reason was the rise of the internet.

Another is that the younger generation is more puritanical than their predecessors.

I had to google puritanical

 

I think the main reason is the price...Its not a cheap holiday anymore. Some of the boat/tour operators were charging obscene prices for very substandard packages

[zzzzz]

Patong might be deader than a door knob but Central phuket town was a normal low season busy today

driving around phuket town friday....same normal low season...

[Agusts]

I don't agree that Phuket was quiet before corona, in fact early January it was busier than I ever remember, streets, shops beaches and even some bars and discos. 

 

But it's a totally different demographic and different nationalities, and different requirements for these new visitors. Yes, sure no more old European guys, Aussis, north Americans sitting around drinking all hours and barfing bar girls, or going to naughty massage shops. But there were more young couples, families and larger groups, and some old retiree snow bird couples as usual.

 

But majority now from China, Russia and India, I would say the number of visitors actually increased in total over the years, but different groups of people looking for different experiences in Phuket. Those businesses who cater to them thrive, others go downhill...

 

And I'm sure they will come back in a year or two, perhaps takes time for Phuket to get to top gear again, but it will, of course with these new demographics and not the old crowd from 10 or 20 years ago...

 

[Maha Sarakham]

I think that's generally the theme all around Thailand, @Agusts

 

The era of the Westerner has peaked and is now subsiding, it's demise hastened by the global pandemic.

 

If the Thai people want to continue serving tourists, they will as you say, need to adapt to the new presence of the Chinese and Indians going forward.

 

I'm sure there will still be the odd Western couple, backpacker Uni graduates traveling SE Asia, a few expats clinging onto the red light districts.  However, I think you're absolutely correct that the numbers will be way lesser than before and many bar/massage businesses may never open again.

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, Agusts said:

I don't agree that Phuket was quiet before corona, in fact early January it was busier than I ever remember, streets, shops beaches and even some bars and discos. 

Well I will have to disagree with you there I'm afraid because Patong certainly hasn't been busier than in the past, although it was said by a few businesses here that the last high season was better (albeit patchy) than the previous two, but that's only a blip on the radar.

 

Indeed on this thread and others, people were questioning the wisdom of opening a Central store in Patong because it was sparsely populated, and the same was said of the huge new addition to the Phuket Central mall, because huge as it was, it was often devoid of any noticeable custom.

 

For quite a few years now Patong has been suffering and certainly the entertainment areas have felt this with the likes of Soi Freedom having many empty bars, and OTOP the same, despite many new bars cropping up (why oh why), and I would say this has been on a steady decline for at least eight years or so.

 

The beach chair fiasco certainly didn't help, however I will agree with you that the demographics had changed, and that started a few years back with more young families coming to Patong, but finding nothing much for them to do that was different and interesting.

 

I don't venture into Phuket town much, so I can't comment on Phuket town per se and I focus on Patong because I live here and the thread is mostly about Patong.

 

I've spoken to many businesses about this and they have all agreed that there has been a steady decline over the years, and it one wants to take the venue of Taipan as a litmus test, at least for the party aspect of Patong, then the dwindling number of girls and visitors on the dancefloor there over the years, tells its own story.

[ThePearl]

On 8/16/2020 at 5:52 PM, xylophone said:

Quote. "Great time to invest in real estate now".

 

But then again he would say that..............

Or invest in property in a 3rd world country with limited legal rights.

The guy has nothing......most smart people invest in their home lands and now are living off the fat.

[xylophone]

1 minute ago, ThePearl said:

Or invest in property in a 3rd world country with limited legal rights.

The guy has nothing......most smart people invest in their home lands and now are living off the fat.

Just to make it clear, I was opposing the view of, "Great time to invest in real estate now".

 

Having said that I have owned a couple of houses here, but would never do it again, mainly because of the reasons you have stated, although I didn't lose any money on them, luckily enough.

 

For me the other reason, apart from those you mention, is the fact that if I rent, I am free to move wherever and whenever I want, basically at the drop of a hat, as the saying goes, and that is extremely important to me.

[ChasingTheSun]

2 hours ago, ThePearl said:

Or invest in property in a 3rd world country with limited legal rights.

The guy has nothing......most smart people invest in their home lands and now are living off the fat.

Why are you claiming that Thailand is a “3rd world country”? 
 

Why do you claim that Thailand has no significant property “rights”?

 

In addition, why would you also claim that the many thousands of expats in Thailand currently living in houses/condos that they own (not paying rent on) are not “smart”?

 

Plus, why do you believe that the millions of investors who have bought/sold foreign property(s) for real profits/income around the world are not “smart” either?

 

 

[billythehat]

7 hours ago, xylophone said:

Well I will have to disagree with you there I'm afraid because Patong certainly hasn't been busier than in the past, although it was said by a few businesses here that the last high season was better (albeit patchy) than the previous two, but that's only a blip on the radar.

 

Indeed on this thread and others, people were questioning the wisdom of opening a Central store in Patong because it was sparsely populated, and the same was said of the huge new addition to the Phuket Central mall, because huge as it was, it was often devoid of any noticeable custom.

 

For quite a few years now Patong has been suffering and certainly the entertainment areas have felt this with the likes of Soi Freedom having many empty bars, and OTOP the same, despite many new bars cropping up (why oh why), and I would say this has been on a steady decline for at least eight years or so.

 

The beach chair fiasco certainly didn't help, however I will agree with you that the demographics had changed, and that started a few years back with more young families coming to Patong, but finding nothing much for them to do that was different and interesting.

 

I don't venture into Phuket town much, so I can't comment on Phuket town per se and I focus on Patong because I live here and the thread is mostly about Patong.

 

I've spoken to many businesses about this and they have all agreed that there has been a steady decline over the years, and it one wants to take the venue of Taipan as a litmus test, at least for the party aspect of Patong, then the dwindling number of girls and visitors on the dancefloor there over the years, tells its own story.

<hab snip>

“Well I will have to disagree with you there I'm afraid because Patong certainly hasn't been busier than in the past,”

 

Absolutely agree with you here. Having ventured to all parts of Lalaland over 20 years and seen the halcyon days come and go, especially in the main tourist spots of southern Lalaland, CD19 has seen the last of any coin still to be shaken from an already leaky tin. Talking to a few farang bar-keeps still hanging on Xmas 2019 (some assuming one had never heard bullsh?t before) knew the game was up; the bread & butter customers had gone elsewhere and were no longer interested in a poor value for money product.

 

For Phuket to survive, it will need to re-invent itself as a place the new tourists want to go to. To reinvent, a cure for stupid will need to have been developed and this will be the important first hurdle to overcome. For those incumbent farangs who manage to ride out the crisis and own land, they could be the mammals that survived the extinction of the dinosaurs.

 

Believe me, business is hard out here in the reality of Outer Earth and most are struggling or laying off staff, some in their thousands. As companies go to the wall, there is a pyramid of companies underneath going the same way. In the UK, any small government grants/other that have been handed out will cease in October 2020 so the financial position for many will get much worse. I will be pulling down the shutters down on my own company at the end of September 2020 due to contracts lost during this crisis and there’s gonna be no spare cash for a long time. Hard to see where all these zillions of stinky tourists will be coming from…
 

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, billythehat said:

I will be pulling down the shutters down on my own company at the end of September 2020 due to contracts lost during this crisis and there’s gonna be no spare cash for a long time.

So sorry to hear that BTH, and I hope you will be able to pull through with a "never say die" spirit and of course your unique wit.

 

All the very best.

[Agusts]

Don't take my word for it, check TAT annual visitor numbers for Thailand and Phuket in particular over the last 10 years until this year Jan, the increase of tourists numbers coming here every year increased by quite a bit...

 

If you're only talking about Patong night life , girly bars and massage shops that don't give any massage ????, then that's true, they're going to the abyss, and no chance of recovery as far as I can see...

 

Saying that there are some really good discount going on now, San Miguel Light in Illuzion is 120b now, was 200, some other bars 70b, when it was 100 before (-40 or -30%). So when the borders open again we might get some bargain hunters coming in if they keep low prices that way...! ????

 

[Lashay]

1 hour ago, Agusts said:

San Miguel Light in Illuzion is 120b now, was 200, some other bars 70b, when it was 100 before (-40 or -30%). So when the borders open again we might get some bargain hunters coming in if they keep low prices that way.

There is no way they can keep prices that low especially if they plan to still be here a year from now (make it past next low season).

 

SML is on average 40b 'wholesale', 70 is only 30b 'profit', from that 30b has to come rent (high on Bangla), salarys, cooling, utilities, licences, cops and so on.

 

You would have to sell an unbelievable amount of beer, day in day out, to make a profit.

 

Only reason doing it now is most bars open have either rent suspended or reduced big time, that will stop when borders open (some owners are already getting pressured by landlords with announcement of Oct 1 'safe and sealed' plan)

 

Hell with bar owners costs on Bangla even 100 is too cheap, 120 is probably more appropriate price for Bangla