No progress yet in "80K vs 40K" bank case as both sides stick to their stories

[webfact]

No progress yet in "80K vs 40K" bank case as both sides stick to their stories

 

Picture: Thai Rath

 

CHAINAT: -- A bank drama that is captivating the online community is no closer to resolution. But police intend to press for an end to the case this week.

 

As reported before on Thaivisa the case revolves around a pet shop employee who said he brought in 80,000 baht to a Kasikorn bank while the teller said she only received 40,000.

 

Only the smaller figure was entered in the account of the owner of the pet food shop causing the employee, Wachira Ariyapongkorn, 41, to go to the government watchdog Damrongtham and police in Chainat for justice.

 

Chetthachai Chethasiri of Wat Singh police said that both sides were sticking to their guns and not changing their statements.

 

The CCTV footage is being studied forensically. He said if there was no development by Wednesday he would get investigators to hurry up the case.

 

Source: Thai Rath

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-07-03

[ChrisY1]

Hurry up the case??.....only been around for 3 weeks now....but I guess banks here are never wrong!

Another reason to never use Kasikorn Bank......

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, ChrisY1 said:

Hurry up the case??.....only been around for 3 weeks now....but I guess banks here are never wrong!

Another reason to never use Kasikorn Bank......

 

Plus, the police say they are still investigating, but late last week they said charges had been laid against the teller.

 

Or is this another case of very poor / incorrect reporting?

Edited July 3, 2017 by scorecard

[manarak]

1 hour ago, ChrisY1 said:

Hurry up the case??.....only been around for 3 weeks now....but I guess banks here are never wrong!

Another reason to never use Kasikorn Bank......

never had a problem with Kasikorn.

 

what I wonder is if it's not possible to see on the CCTV what happened to the wad of cash given by the customer? was a wad of same size put into the machine?

and why the hell don't they have HD cameras? it's 2017!

[coulson]

Entirely the banks fault for not having suitable cctv coverage of areas where money changes hands, and having incompetent staff who don't verify with the customer as signed witness.

Even if this guy is a scammer, it is their obligation to prevent staff going word against word.

[4MyEgo]

1) Depositors problem for not checking as the cash was counted, i.e. I always watch as the money is counted in the machine, never had an issue with Siam Bank

 

2) Bank should put the microscope under this teller, or over I should say, and see if there have been any other complaints by customers on this teller.

 

If number 2 fails, refer back to number 1)

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, coulson said:

Entirely the banks fault for not having suitable cctv coverage of areas where money changes hands, and having incompetent staff who don't verify with the customer as signed witness.

Even if this guy is a scammer, it is their obligation to prevent staff going word against word.

 

True, every bank should have clear specific processes which staff must follow (with punishment if they don't) to reduce the risk for the bank to zero risk and at the same time reduce the risk for the customer to zero risk. 

[ChrisY1]

2 hours ago, manarak said:

never had a problem with Kasikorn.

 

what I wonder is if it's not possible to see on the CCTV what happened to the wad of cash given by the customer? was a wad of same size put into the machine?

and why the hell don't they have HD cameras? it's 2017!

You're quite right of course........but when issues such as this one arise..with Thais...they deny!

[harryviking]

The same happend to me some time back at a kasikorn bank branch nakon ratchasima...I knew I had 40.000 baht and wanted to deposit. I also watched the teller showing 40 grand. after walking from the counter I  looked atthe book and discovered that it only showed 35.000 deposited! I imidiately went to the counter and complained...They then started to count all the money they had there and after maybe 5 mins they said SORRY they were wrong!! yeah yeah yeah sure...

At least I got it right...might be a scam among some behind the counter...I dont know for sure...

[wirat69]

4 hours ago, manarak said:

never had a problem with Kasikorn.

I guess your expectations are quite low then!! 40 years ago the Main Branch was OK, but seems today it is only the Silom Branch that has rudimentary English services available!! Service is our Heart is the biggest puffery yet in Thailand!!

[NCFC]

When I had an account with kasikorn I used to notice several large amounts being deposited and then withdrawn a few minutes later. Around 300-400k at a time and 2-3 times per day

 

My own cash was never touched. I think someone in my local Huamark branch was laundering money through my account.

 

 

[The Dark Lord]

19 hours ago, harryviking said:

The same happend to me some time back at a kasikorn bank branch nakon ratchasima...I knew I had 40.000 baht and wanted to deposit. I also watched the teller showing 40 grand. after walking from the counter I  looked atthe book and discovered that it only showed 35.000 deposited! I imidiately went to the counter and complained...They then started to count all the money they had there and after maybe 5 mins they said SORRY they were wrong!! yeah yeah yeah sure...

At least I got it right...might be a scam among some behind the counter...I dont know for sure...

Hmm HarryV,

 

perhaps that  is the reason my bank balance always seems so low. I am a kasikorn customer, have been for a zillion years, Huatalae branch, always helpful but always trying to push some special offer to me when I go there.

 

 

[Sydebolle]

Well, the resolution of the CCTV is worse than my five-year old dashboard camera - does not help. So, instead of funny logos, micky mice and other nonsense the bank might invest in some proper equipment - after all it is also in the interest of the customer and not the bank alone.

 

This case can be solved, we all know that.

But reprimanding the customer's employee for NOT checking in itself is pure and plain stupidity, ignorance or - yet another case of "man pen rai". 

It would help to put the person at fault behind bars for a certain (limited) period of time. Irrespective of who it was, the faulty person should also be given the boot - maybe a very small drop on a very big hot stone ........... for future copycat planners! 

[anto]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:40 AM, coulson said:

Entirely the banks fault for not having suitable cctv coverage of areas where money changes hands, and having incompetent staff who don't verify with the customer as signed witness.

Even if this guy is a scammer, it is their obligation to prevent staff going word against word.

Its also the customers fault ,for not checking .

[coulson]

Its also the customers fault ,for not checking .

I would say so if we were talking about buying 7/11 or a street vendor. However this is a bank, and certainly in Thai terms not a small amount of money.

As I said, maybe he didn't check intentionally, however the bank have a responsibility to protect their staff and provide an honest service that easily prevents someone trying it on.

[dksharron]

 

About two weeks ago, there was a shooting in Texas at a gas station.  A robber went after a customer outside at the gas pumps and got himself shot in the process.  Most posters mentioned the incredible quality of the video.  Even at at least 20 meters, everyone could clearly make out the faces of those involved.  How can a bank have suck low quality cameras?

 

 

[petermik]

7 hours ago, dksharron said:

 

 How can a bank have such low quality cameras?

 

 

As all banks here are thoroughly honest and reputable there has never been any need in the past for high quality cameras

[GOLDBUGGY]

If he deposited 80,000 Baht then there would be a paper trail. If he deposited 80,000 but signed a form saying he only put in 40,000, then I guess the mstake is his. 

 

Any dealing I have ever had with a Bank in Thailand I always got some proof. If I deposited money into my Bank Account I check my Bank Book while still standing there to make sure it was entered. If he has no proof, then in my view he has no case.

 

I can understand some Bank Manager skimming a few Baht here and there out of someone''s Saving Account. But a Teller taking 40,000 Baht from an 80,000 Baht Deposit would be pretty stupid, as this would be detected right away. So I don't thiink in this case the bank is to blame.  

[tominbkk]

Good lesson to always check your receipt.

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, coulson said:

 

I would say so if we were talking about buying 7/11 or a street vendor. However this is a bank, and certainly in Thai terms not a small amount of money.

As I said, maybe he didn't check intentionally, however the bank have a responsibility to protect their staff and provide an honest service that easily prevents someone trying it on.
 

 

As they say in the Banking Business, there are many checks and balances. Everything this Teller does is recorded. Deposits made through her computer has her ID on it with her security card she needs to open it. If there was a mistake then this extra 40,000 would show up at the end of the day when the cash and accounts are counted. 

 

Is it possible for someone to give a Bank Teller 80,000 Baht, she deposits 40,000 Baht, and puts 40,000 Baht in her pocket? I suppose it is. But then it would be pretty stupid for her to try this and also stupid on the customers part for not even checking. Especially from a guy who works in a Pet Shop and where 40,000 Baht is a lot of money. 

[coulson]

As they say in the Banking Business, there are many checks and balances. Everything this Teller does is recorded. Deposits made through her computer has her ID on it with her security card she needs to open it. If there was a mistake then this extra 40,000 would show up at the end of the day when the cash and accounts are counted. 
 
Is it possible for someone to give a Bank Teller 80,000 Baht, she deposits 40,000 Baht, and puts 40,000 Baht in her pocket? I suppose it is. But then it would be pretty stupid for her to try this and also stupid on the customers part for not even checking. Especially from a guy who works in a Pet Shop and where 40,000 Baht is a lot of money. 

What are you harping on about?

Either the depositor or the teller is a crook, and 40,000 baht has gone astray.

It's the banks responsibility to not let either case happen, and it is in their interest.

Their responsibility.

[speedtripler]

If the bank can't prove it either way, it should be on them to refund... 

There is a big difference in 40k and 80k 

 

The physical thickness of the paper, how many seconds it takes to go through the counting machine, whether or not any normal security steps were not followed etc.... 

 

I have made large cash deposits and withdrawls before and its boring but I usually count the cash as well as them counting it

 

Tempting to use your phone while they're counting it but you can't be too careful in Thailand 

 

If this was 79/80k it could be a honest mistake by miscounting on either side.... But 40/80 means someone is surely trying to scam the other lol

[cyberfarang]

I think the burden of proof is with the customer, not the bank.

 

Easy enough to check the paperwork.

[GOLDBUGGY]

On 7/5/2017 at 0:10 AM, coulson said:

 

What are you harping on about?

Either the depositor or the teller is a crook, and 40,000 baht has gone astray.

It's the banks responsibility to not let either case happen, and it is in their interest.

Their responsibility.
 

 

What are you talking about? 

 

You go to the bank and deposit 40,000 Baht and get a receipt for that amount. Then you go back to your Boss at the Pet Store, who gave you 80,000 Baht to deposit, and tell him the bank cheated you out of 40,000 Baht. If this is what really happened what do you expect this bank to do about that? 

 

I don't doubt that someone is being dishonest here but who is the more likely culprit? A Bank Teller who must account for all of her transactions, and having a Video Camera overhead, Where at anytime she must produce a receipt when asked by a client. Or a guy who works at a Pet Shop where 40,000 Baht is a lot of money to him and can say anything he likes, and make up any story he lkes, without producing any proof to back that up? 

 

You say it is the banks responsibilty when dealing with a huge deposit but I disagree with you, It is your responsibility to obtain a receipt anytime you are dealing with large numbers. Would you give some stranger 100,000 Baht for a deposit on a new Condo you are buying without any kind of receipt to pove that? Of course you wouldn't! You also wouldn't give some Bank Teller 80,000 Baht and walk away without some kind of receipt either.

 

If you did then you deserve to lose that money and be a good example of : "A Fool and hIs Money, soon part company". . 

[coulson]

What are you talking about? 
 
You go to the bank and deposit 40,000 Baht and get a receipt for that amount. Then you go back to your Boss at the Pet Store, who gave you 80,000 Baht to deposit, and tell him the bank cheated you out of 40,000 Baht. If this is what really happened what do you expect this bank to do about that? 

I would expect them to prove beyond reasonable doubt what actually happened.

Banking in branch should be foolproof.

[IMA_FARANG]

It may have indeed happened.

However my monthly pension arrived on 4 July from the U.S.

I watched them run a wad of 1000 Baht bills through the Led counter and when they handed me the money they counted it out right in front of me.

I also saw the counting machine and was able to verify the count on the Led tally.

This was at Bangkok Bank at the branch in Fortune Mall,

The correct amount of "incoming foreign  funds" was printed in my bank passbook by the computer printout which I checked PRIOR to me leaving the teller's counter.

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

21 hours ago, coulson said:

 

I would expect them to prove beyond reasonable doubt what actually happened.

Banking in branch should be foolproof.

 

You go into a bank and give them 50,000 Baht and your bank book to deposit in your saving account. The Teller counts this money and also on the counting machine and agrees to this being 50,000 Baht. She then enters this deposit into your bank book with her personal ID Number, which you check at the counter and when it is correct you then leave. The money now needs to be in her cash drawer at the end of the day,, or it comes out of her pocket,  What could be more fool proof than that? 

 

This is not the first time a bank has been accused of taking money. That has been going on since the first day a bank opened up for business. This is why they have these security measure in place now. You can't stop people from making an error and thinking they deposited more money than they actually did. Or people just plain lying to there boss and putting that money in there own pocket, then claiming the bank teller took it. 

 

You are expected to use good common sense especially when dealing with a lot of money, anywhere. You just don't turn over huge piles of cash unless you get a receipt, or other proof of that, unless maybe you are some big drug dealer. You just can't make everything Fool Proof, and especially for Fools. 

 

I don't even understand why they would even investigate this, except to maybe catch the guy lying to his boss about the 40,000 Baht. With no proof on his part, there is no case against this bank at all. So it must be against him.  

[scorecard]

17 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

You go into a bank and give them 50,000 Baht and your bank book to deposit in your saving account. The Teller counts this money and also on the counting machine and agrees to this being 50,000 Baht. She then enters this deposit into your bank book with her personal ID Number, which you check at the counter and when it is correct you then leave. The money now needs to be in her cash drawer at the end of the day,, or it comes out of her pocket,  What could be more fool proof than that? 

 

This is not the first time a bank has been accused of taking money. That has been going on since the first day a bank opened up for business. This is why they have these security measure in place now. You can't stop people from making an error and thinking they deposited more money than they actually did. Or people just plain lying to there boss and putting that money in there own pocket, then claiming the bank teller took it. 

 

You are expected to use good common sense especially when dealing with a lot of money, anywhere. You just don't turn over huge piles of cash unless you get a receipt, or other proof of that, unless maybe you are some big drug dealer. You just can't make everything Fool Proof, and especially for Fools. 

 

I don't even understand why they would even investigate this, except to maybe catch the guy lying to his boss about the 40,000 Baht. With no proof on his part, there is no case against this bank at all. So it must be against him.  

 

 

"You are expected to use good common sense especially when dealing with a lot of money, anywhere. You just don't turn over huge piles of cash unless you get a receipt, or other proof of that, unless maybe you are some big drug dealer. You just can't make everything Fool Proof, and especially for Fools. "

 

 

Nice textbook comment. 

 

Do all bank tellers in all banks in Thailand or in any country, fully follow the procedures? No, they don't.

 

Did you see the video, the teller split the money into two piles and put one pile a bit away from her desk area.

 

Did the customer do something wrong? No. 

 

Would most junior customers sent to do the banking speak up? No.

 

Would most junior customers sent to do the banking even be knowledgeable about or understand the procedures and the reasons for the procedures involved? No.

 

Is it in fact wrong for business owners to send junior naive employees to do the banking? 

[GOLDBUGGY]

17 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

 

"You are expected to use good common sense especially when dealing with a lot of money, anywhere. You just don't turn over huge piles of cash unless you get a receipt, or other proof of that, unless maybe you are some big drug dealer. You just can't make everything Fool Proof, and especially for Fools. "

 

 

Nice textbook comment. 

 

Do all bank tellers in all banks in Thailand or in any country, fully follow the procedures? No, they don't.

 

Did you see the video, the teller split the money into two piles and put one pile a bit away from her desk area.

 

Did the customer do something wrong? No. 

 

Would most junior customers sent to do the banking speak up? No.

 

Would most junior customers sent to do the banking even be knowledgeable about or understand the procedures and the reasons for the procedures involved? No.

 

Is it in fact wrong for business owners to send junior naive employees to do the banking? 

Is it wrong to send junior naive employees to do the banking? 

 

Let's answer this question by asking another question. 

 

Would you send an 8 year old child to the bank with 80,000 Baht to make a deposit for you? 

 

If you did send an 8 year old child to do your banking for you, and something went wrong, who is to blame? The Bank? Or you for sending a child to do this type of transaction? 

 

Were does it say anywhere in this article that the person depositing this cash money was a "Junior Naive Employee"? Was it his first time in a Thai Bank? Would it had been reasonable for the Employer to send an Employee to the bank with 80,000 Baht to deposit if it was his first time in a bank? But somehow this person you claim is afraid to say anything in the bank had no problems running to authorities and complainning about this. Did he? 

 

Are all Bank Tellers following banking procedures at all times? Probably not! This is why banks take steps to reduce or eliminate theft from there employees, like having a tracking systems for each employee, and every transaction they do, and partly by using Video Cameras. 

 

But no matter how you look at it, the onus is on you to get some kind of receipt when dealing wth large amounts of something untracable, like cash, and not on the Bank Teller chasing you down the street to give the receipt to you. To think otherwise is just plain nonsense. 

[KittenKong]

On 04/07/2017 at 0:32 PM, coulson said:

I would say so if we were talking about buying 7/11 or a street vendor. However this is a bank, and certainly in Thai terms not a small amount of money.

When it comes to money I always double-check everything here, regardless of what sort of place I am in. Additions, totals, receipts, change.

 

"Mistakes" in Thailand are endless. In the end it makes no real difference whether it's stupidity or dishonesty: you still have to check if you want to keep what's yours.

 

A TMB cashier once "forgot" to put a bundle of 100,000kB into an envelope with 7 other such bundles for an 800kB withdrawal. Luckily I was checking. The missing bundle had somehow moved to the back of her counter, out of my line of sight.