Roads, just how bad are they built

[seajae]

for the past few months they have been doing up the road just behind our house, it runs around the side of a lake up to a bridge and every time there was a king tide the road went under, it was causing it to fall to pieces. As you can see by the pics all they used was their normal red dirt/clay fill then poured concrete over the top of it and used no steel rebar in the road at all apart form the bits drilled into the first half poured to link them and no expansion strips. No road base, no rock etc, I can see at the next king tide all this fill washing out from under the road, thats if the concrete hasnt started to already  break up from all the overloaded trucks that use this road but I bet the "person" responsible has increased their bank account by not doing it as required, any wonder thai roads are absolute crap

Edited July 15, 2017 by seajae

[CharlieH]

It usually comes down to money, they only have enough in the pot for small minor somchai repairs on a regular basis but not enough in any period for a comprehensive and permanent fix project. 

We waited seven years for our access road for just that reason.

[carlyai]

That's really crap. As you say, I bet that's not how it's supposed to be built.
I've got more rebar in my cement than that road.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[seajae]

they have just done up the park next to this road and are going to continue putting the road right around the lake as a tourist attraction, supposed to be a huge project so I think they would have allowed for it to be done properly, probably just didnt tell the one organizing the actual work 

Edited July 15, 2017 by seajae

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

It usually comes down to money,

Seriously yes nail on head so to speak whether it's major roads or local roads it is very easy to criticize something like road building in Thailand isn't it,   same old western thoughts without thinking it through.

 

l wouldn't want the job, so many ground area movements throughout Thailand and if you want complain,  l don't because the same thing happens in western countries too. 

 

In defense of some Thai road construction companies l can see there problem getting the job done properly is nigh on very difficult because a lot of the money that suppose to be spent on the roads goes elsewhere !!   Think about it. 

[NanLaew]

Well that's it then. One poorly constructed road that runs by the back of a members house, round a lake past some tourist trapping gardens that allegedly also has 'heavy trucks' using it and all Thai road construction is written off as a bad joke.

 

Meanwhile, the Highway 7 extensions down the eastern seaboard will be completed next year.

[Timemaster]

I think we all know how bad some are built but as if you need more proof:-

 

 

Picture: Siam Chon News

 

PATTAYA: -- The Department of Rural Road have been digging up the exit from Pattaya's much vaunted tunnel after they noticed water damage to the road surface.

 

The tunnel - supposed to finally open next month - has not had a single car pass through but is already being repaired.

 

The authorities blamed some rogue underground water.

 

It will all mean a delay of at least another week as the side leading to Chonburi is repaired.

 

The 800 million baht tunnel has been constructed over many years. Last month it was reported that it would finally open in August.

 

Siam Chon news said yesterday that repairs would take a week though they were unsure what that meant for the opening date.

 

Source: Siam Chon News

 

 

Please can anyone tell me, what the hell is "rogue water".

Edited July 15, 2017 by Timemaster
spelling mistake

[NanLaew]

47 minutes ago, Timemaster said:

I think we all know how bad some are built but as if you need more proof:-

 

 

Picture: Siam Chon News

 

PATTAYA: -- The Department of Rural Road have been digging up the exit from Pattaya's much vaunted tunnel after they noticed water damage to the road surface.

 

The tunnel - supposed to finally open next month - has not had a single car pass through but is already being repaired.

 

The authorities blamed some rogue underground water.

 

It will all mean a delay of at least another week as the side leading to Chonburi is repaired.

 

The 800 million baht tunnel has been constructed over many years. Last month it was reported that it would finally open in August.

 

Siam Chon news said yesterday that repairs would take a week though they were unsure what that meant for the opening date.

 

Source: Siam Chon News

 

 

Please can anyone tell me, what the hell is "rogue water".

OK, that's two poorly constructed roads...

 

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

and all Thai road construction is written off as a bad joke.

 

[seajae]

if they used road base instead of red dirt and put rebar in the concrete they would last a hell of a lot better,  also stopping heavy trucks using roads not built for them would  help. Problem is those that are organizing them try to cut costs, if the money allocated for these projects was actually spent on them roads would be a lot better but it just doesnt happen. The engineers responsible for approving them are too scared to say anything as they are threatened or paid off to pass them so it just keeps happening. Money is allocated but by the time all the graft money is taken out there isnt enough to do it properly, same as all other projects in Thailand.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by seajae

[topt]

10 hours ago, seajae said:

if they used road base instead of red dirt and put rebar in the concrete they would last a hell of a lot better,  also stopping heavy trucks using roads not built for them would  help. Problem is those that are organizing them try to cut costs, if the money allocated for these projects was actually spent on them roads would be a lot better but it just doesnt happen. The engineers responsible for approving them are too scared to say anything as they are threatened or paid off to pass them so it just keeps happening. Money is allocated but by the time all the graft money is taken out there isnt enough to do it properly, same as all other projects in Thailand.

 

Seajae your pictures seem to show one half of the road in concrete with rebar. You say it has been drilled in but are you sure it does not run all the way across as that is how they normally lay it, all be it still laid on the red clay base? Not much point in drilling in rebar if joined to tarmac?

The bit worked on looks just like tarmac on top of the earth. This looks level with the concrete from your pics so presumably that's it. If I am seeing it correctly do you know why the 2 different construction types for the same bit of road?

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Seajae your pictures seem to show one half of the road in concrete with rebar. You say it has been drilled in but are you sure it does not run all the way across as that is how they normally lay it, all be it still laid on the red clay base? Not much point in drilling in rebar if joined to tarmac?

The bit worked on looks just like tarmac on top of the earth. This looks level with the concrete from your pics so presumably that's it. If I am seeing it correctly do you know why the 2 different construction types for the same bit of road?

the rebar is just pins between the 2 sections of road. the forming used has holes and they go along and poke short bits of rebar into them to stop the concrete leaking through.  hard to believe they are not putting some mesh rebar under this road.

[topt]

5 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

the rebar is just pins between the 2 sections of road. the forming used has holes and they go along and poke short bits of rebar into them to stop the concrete leaking through.  hard to believe they are not putting some mesh rebar under this road.

Ok thanks that makes some sense. I still think the concrete part would have had rebar but only seajae can say if he saw it being done before the concrete was poured or not?

[williamgeorgeallen]

5 minutes ago, topt said:

Ok thanks that makes some sense. I still think the concrete part would have had rebar but only seajae can say if he saw it being done before the concrete was poured or not?

no reason to put it in one side and not the other right?

[thailand49]

17 hours ago, Timemaster said:

I think we all know how bad some are built but as if you need more proof:-

 

 

Picture: Siam Chon News

 

PATTAYA: -- The Department of Rural Road have been digging up the exit from Pattaya's much vaunted tunnel after they noticed water damage to the road surface.

 

The tunnel - supposed to finally open next month - has not had a single car pass through but is already being repaired.

 

The authorities blamed some rogue underground water.

 

It will all mean a delay of at least another week as the side leading to Chonburi is repaired.

 

The 800 million baht tunnel has been constructed over many years. Last month it was reported that it would finally open in August.

 

Siam Chon news said yesterday that repairs would take a week though they were unsure what that meant for the opening date.

 

Source: Siam Chon News

 

 

Please can anyone tell me, what the hell is "rogue water".

Rogue Water,  I'll try to take a guess on this one? 

It is putting in drains that lead to no where, which is what happen a number of years ago I saw them doing on Soi Siam, around the area soi 13- up to 22? 

This is what you see, over 2 years ago around the electrical station when they wanted to put in new drains, as they punch into the old road they started to find basically sink holes of water ( Rogue water ) this is what they found again outside the market at Wanasin, the more they punch the farther down they had to go, the punching is going backwards now to Soi 13, which is where all the water ends coming down from Soi 22, top where the mini lotus and 7/11 traffic light.

For years the water run down from S-22, to this area which had no drains it had to do something, "Rogue Water"?

[themerg]

  I am an American. I use to live in upstate New York in snow, and cold country. Every year we have springtime pothole season.

All the technology in the world can not stop Mother Nature. Everybody fighting Mother Nature will eventually lose.

Quit the complaining. Go back home to your country if you don't like it.

Your home country is loosing the battle with Mother Nature just as my home country is.

Water destroys rock.

Things are done differently here and Thailand cannot afford all these expensive road bases, and rebar, and your other complaint filled items. I LOVE THAILAND. Love it or leave it.

Edited July 16, 2017 by themerg

[garbolino]

what about Siam Country Club Road.....and you think YOU have problems !!!

[seajae]

4 hours ago, topt said:

Seajae your pictures seem to show one half of the road in concrete with rebar. You say it has been drilled in but are you sure it does not run all the way across as that is how they normally lay it, all be it still laid on the red clay base? Not much point in drilling in rebar if joined to tarmac?

The bit worked on looks just like tarmac on top of the earth. This looks level with the concrete from your pics so presumably that's it. If I am seeing it correctly do you know why the 2 different construction types for the same bit of road?

I watched them drill it in, there is a pile of the connecting pieces on the first section. Our house overlooks the road works(pics take from the bedroom/office) so I was rather surprised to see them do it, maybe it was for inspection purposes to look as though they had put rebar in but they certainly didnt use any while I watched them set up and pour both sections.They have framed it for pouring and the first section was poured over mud as it had been pissing down the day before it was poured(the side you can see in the pic was framed as well so the rebar could not have been there anyway) then you have all the bike riders still riding through the sections as well causing surface deformities. Also there is supposed to be an expansion joint(rubber) between sections so it can move, I took the pics so I can how long  it lasts before starting to break up, with the methods used below par I am interested to see the results

[seajae]

50 minutes ago, themerg said:

  I am an American. I use to live in upstate New York in snow, and cold country. Every year we have springtime pothole season.

All the technology in the world can not stop Mother Nature. Everybody fighting Mother Nature will eventually lose.

Quit the complaining. Go back home to your country if you don't like it.

Your home country is loosing the battle with Mother Nature just as my home country is.

Water destroys rock.

Things are done differently here and Thailand cannot afford all these expensive road bases, and rebar, and your other complaint filled items. I LOVE THAILAND. Love it or leave it.

its not mother nature its all the corruption, with 30% on average listed as the cost of graft on every govt job it is the cause all the problems they have with roads breaking up, bridges collapsing, buildings collapsing etc. Nothing to do with how much I love Thailand,  its the graft and corruption I dont like, suggest you try reading up on what actually happens here next time before sticking your foot firmly in your mouth. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by seajae

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

You can build a strong road without steel, you just make the concrete muct thicker and the surface area of each slab must be smaller. Cost wise it works the same. Without knowing the thickness of the concrete yhey used it is difficult to determine if they cutting corners or not. 

[GreasyFingers]

18 minutes ago, seajae said:

Also there is supposed to be an expansion joint(rubber) between sections so it can move

That used to be the case but back in Oz they buid concrete highways without the expansion joint so you do not get the constant slap/slap of the joints. Do not know the technology behind it, been out of the game for too long. It may be the additives to the mix. Not sure about the lack of rebar though.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Well that's it then. One poorly constructed road that runs by the back of a members house, round a lake past some tourist trapping gardens that allegedly also has 'heavy trucks' using it and all Thai road construction is written off as a bad joke.

 

Meanwhile, the Highway 7 extensions down the eastern seaboard will be completed next year.

C,mon, heaps of poorly constructed roads all over LOS.

The new road from Chiang Khong to Chiang Saen which is a major road being built specifically for trucks is just tar seal over red dirt. That's not going to last long.

The road that goes from 1 north of Chiang Rai to Thaton when I drove it was disintegrating for miles because the tar seal had obviously been done badly.

Even the big highway running through Lamphun to Lampang was badly built.

 

Regardless, the reasons are probably well understood by anyone been in LOS a few years.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, themerg said:

  I am an American. I use to live in upstate New York in snow, and cold country. Every year we have springtime pothole season.

All the technology in the world can not stop Mother Nature. Everybody fighting Mother Nature will eventually lose.

Quit the complaining. Go back home to your country if you don't like it.

Your home country is loosing the battle with Mother Nature just as my home country is.

Water destroys rock.

Things are done differently here and Thailand cannot afford all these expensive road bases, and rebar, and your other complaint filled items. I LOVE THAILAND. Love it or leave it.

Thailand cannot afford all these expensive road bases, and rebar

 

I guess you haven't been in Thailand long enough to know the reality, but to say Thailand cannot afford is ludicrous. Thailand is very rich, but for reasons those of us that have been here for a bit longer than you know they won't spend it on infrastructure.

[thaibeachlovers]

37 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

That used to be the case but back in Oz they buid concrete highways without the expansion joint so you do not get the constant slap/slap of the joints. Do not know the technology behind it, been out of the game for too long. It may be the additives to the mix. Not sure about the lack of rebar though.

They used to put an "expansion" joint in rail lines in the past, but then they discovered they didn't have to after all, which is resulting in much nicer rail journeys. I'm guessing they discovered the same in concrete roads.

[GreasyFingers]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The new road from Chiang Khong to Chiang Saen which is a major road being built specifically for trucks is just tar seal over red dirt. That's not going to last long.

The tar seal is only to keep the moisture out of the base course. But the sub-grade and base course are where the strenght is and must be properly compacted otherwise the road will fail. Moisture is the most common cause of road failure and then overloading (trucks). Most roads use 25-50 mm hotmix now instead of the 1 or 2 coat bitumen seal but the life frame even for suburban roads is only 10 years.

[lucjoker]

this is Thailand.......

when monkeys rule ....monkey business is done ....

it is not the road quality that is important ......the road is only a facade to make money...

no more ,no less....

 

And we are discussing why they make bad roads?

Answer : so more money is left to divide in their pockets......

 

Believe me ,if they want to make a perfect road.....they can,they are able to do it .....but not when 90% of the 

needed money is vanished in some pockets.

 

This is not only for roads.....it goes for everything in this country ( and many other countries)

 

So stop looking for answers , dont loose your breath on this. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

The tar seal is only to keep the moisture out of the base course. But the sub-grade and base course are where the strenght is and must be properly compacted otherwise the road will fail. Moisture is the most common cause of road failure and then overloading (trucks). Most roads use 25-50 mm hotmix now instead of the 1 or 2 coat bitumen seal but the life frame even for suburban roads is only 10 years.

On the Chiang Khong Rd the "hotmix" was at least 150 mm thick so IMO was the final coat, and NOT a moisture seal. However, If I go back after the new road is completed I'll see if I'm right then.

BTW, IMO rolled red dirt does not constitute a "base course".

[GreasyFingers]

The base course needs to be a certain type with adequate clay content to bind it. You cannot just use any local dirt.

(My hotmix thicknesses were for suburban roads, not highways.)

The road from Lomsak up to Huai Pai is a good example of how well they can constuct a road. It is 4-5 lanes wide with a 13 km climb (800 metres) in very difficult road building country. There have been some noteable failures due to groundwater that was not detected or diverted but otherwise as good as any highway I have been on in that sort of country.

[rickudon]

Rebar?  Concrete? You use them on roads?

 

Last year, a new road was built from our village to the next along a previous dirt road. Wondered why, because we already had a concrete road and the new road only went past rice paddies and 3 houses (Why is another story).

 

It was a beautiful piece of 2 lane blacktop, smooth as a babies bottom and with very little traffic, It was a pleasure to drive on. Then the wet season started. And 2 people with land on the road decided now they would infill their rice paddies and sell the land as it now had a nice road next to it. The lorries left ruts in the Tarmac up to 20cm deep, and ripped the surface off elsewhere. The road could now be seen to consist of a layer of crushed stone covered with tarmac as thin as 1 centimetre in places. Even though the road was used by probably less than a hundred vehicles a day, there were numerous potholes, one nearly the width of the road, by the end of the wet season. This wet season, the road has gone into full breakdown. The largest pothole now spans the entire width of the road and you have to wade through it - in places it may be a foot deep. Elsewhere potholes can be so numerous you cannot steer round them all. 

 

One of my friends was surprised i still drove my little Ecocar along that road, as he wouldn't even take his pickup truck that way! Two weeks ago i sadly said goodbye to my beautiful 2 lane blacktop as periodic flooding has made it hard to tell where the potholes are, and the possibility that the main one may have water deeper than the floor of my car.... 

 

I have considered planting rice in the potholes.

[rijb]

On 7/15/2017 at 4:06 PM, CharlieH said:

It usually comes down to money, they only have enough in the pot for small minor somchai repairs on a regular basis but not enough in any period for a comprehensive and permanent fix project. 

We waited seven years for our access road for just that reason.

There's not enough money because it's usually been siphoned off by the locals.

[seajae]

3 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

That used to be the case but back in Oz they buid concrete highways without the expansion joint so you do not get the constant slap/slap of the joints. Do not know the technology behind it, been out of the game for too long. It may be the additives to the mix. Not sure about the lack of rebar though.

In Australia I did see them start to use some sort of fibre in the concrete when its mixed to strengthen it, apparently its the same as they use in  runways at airports, doubt they use it here though. I will keep an eye on the road and see how long it lasts, the next king tide will be real interesting as will what happens with all the loaded trucks that use it as a short cut