Swimming pool

[Baht Man]

I had never even heard of a salt-water pool before reading this thread! As Ajarn asked, what are the advantages to having one aside from the reduced expense of chemicals? Isn't the "subjective pleasure experience" reduced swimming in brackish or salty water as opposed to fresh?

Boon, a salt pool only uses sodium chloride (table salt w/o the iodine) in a process to produce chlorine gas. It replaces manually added chlorine as it make it's own and is tied into the filter system. A good system will produce chlorine with salt levels as low as 2800 PPM. Your tears contain more salt that that.

You will only notice the water feels softer than normal, and a salt system will not produce any side effects such as chloramines. You will not notice its a "salt" pool unless you put to much in.

I install them on about 90% of the pools I build here in the US

Edited October 31, 2006 by Baht Man

[Baht Man]

I spent 35 years in the concrete business and Ive seen alot of do-it-yourself horror stories. Usually, they involve people reading a book about concrete and then thinking it will be as easy as in the book. After alot of work and money down the drain, they clean up the mess and call an expert.

Not to worry - I'm thinking of starting a pool-repair company. I think I'll have plenty of business!

I agree, if it was so easy I'd be out of business. There will be a ton of many to be made there with the over confidence I'm seeing here from those DIY'ers.

I'll partner with you on that pool repair company.

[stevehaigh]

I had never even heard of a salt-water pool before reading this thread! As Ajarn asked, what are the advantages to having one aside from the reduced expense of chemicals? Isn't the "subjective pleasure experience" reduced swimming in brackish or salty water as opposed to fresh?

Boon, a salt pool only uses sodium chloride (table salt w/o the iodine) in a process to produce chlorine gas. It replaces manually added chlorine as it make it's own and is tied into the filter system. A good system will produce chlorine with salt levels as low as 2800 PPM. Your tears contain more salt that that.

You will only notice the water feels softer than normal, and a salt system will not produce any side effects such as chloramines. You will not notice its a "salt" pool unless you put to much in.

I install them on about 90% of the pools I build here in the US

actually, i notice the salt quite a bit and i put the recomended amount and the salt meter on the chlorinator complains if it goes low.

steve

[helicoptor]

<font color='#000000'>I want too make a swimming pool by my house,with filter and pump ,water treatment etc. etc.(10mx5mx1,5m)Somebody knowe,s what it will cost?,or a website in thailand where i can find this.</font>

www.miac-construction.com

[Nawtilus]

Which is cheaper to setup as far as the system goes salt or fresh and then which is cheaper to maintain also.

Is the system for each, salt and fresh different ?

[toptuan]

Wire mesh, white cement, tile, filters? Blah blah blah. Man, you guys live complicated lives.

How a swimming pool is built in Isaan:

1) Choose an early morning for the coolness factor.

2) Call together about twenty villagers with hoes.

3) Dig for about four hours, any shape you want.

4) Wait for rainy season to fill

Cost:

Enough som-tam (with lots of "para"), grilled chicken and sticky-rice to feed the crowd of workers.

Maintenance:

PH Balance: Enough village kids peeing in the pool plus natural dissolving of the alkaline clay walls keeps it on-target. No cost.

Algae control: Get the right kind, and it is a great garnish for some stir-fry Isaan dishes. Call the neighbors in to harvest it every few weeks.

Water clarity: Why? Everyone here feels uncomfortable if you can see in the water. You feel like you're swimming in your neighbor's 200-gallon rainwater storage jar. Not good etiquette. If you can't see in it, it's water for swimming. No one offended.

Temperature control: Watch the sun and pick your time of day for a dip. Not exactly rocket science.

Critter control: Any hapless snakes or frogs which fall into your pool are indeed unlucky. They will be on someone's dinner plate by day's end. A poolboy could do that for you. His pay is his caught dinner.

Poolside amenities:

Bodily comfort -- A couple hammocks strung from nearby trees.

Swimming attire -- normal everyday clothes; combats sunburn--no need for expensive sunblocks

Refreshment -- A bottle of Chang with a wicker bowl full of deep-fried silkworms.

Twilight aroma -- Use those little mosquito coils

Nighttime illumination -- bare lightbulb hooked to a car battery and strung across the water. Yeah, good idea to keep it above arms' reach for the kids who want to play with it while swimming.

*********

P.S. My poor retired folks in the home country, on a fixed income, are still putting out between $200 and $300 a month for pool chemicals, a pool boy to skim the water with his net & check the equipment daily, and natural gas for the pool water heater. Now who's really living the care-free lifestyle?

Edited November 11, 2006 by toptuan

[elkangorito]

Wire mesh, white cement, tile, filters? Blah blah blah. Man, you guys live complicated lives.

How a swimming pool is built in Isaan:

1) Choose an early morning for the coolness factor.

2) Call together about twenty villagers with hoes.

3) Dig for about four hours, any shape you want.

4) Wait for rainy season to fill

Cost:

Enough som-tam (with lots of "para"), grilled chicken and sticky-rice to feed the crowd of workers.

Maintenance:

PH Balance: Enough village kids peeing in the pool plus natural dissolving of the alkaline clay walls keeps it on-target. No cost.

Algae control: Get the right kind, and it is a great garnish for some stir-fry Isaan dishes. Call the neighbors in to harvest it every few weeks.

Water clarity: Why? Everyone here feels uncomfortable if you can see in the water. You feel like you're swimming in your neighbor's 200-gallon rainwater storage jar. Not good etiquette. If you can't see in it, it's water for swimming. No one offended.

Temperature control: Watch the sun and pick your time of day for a dip. Not exactly rocket science.

Critter control: Any hapless snakes or frogs which fall into your pool are indeed unlucky. They will be on someone's dinner plate by day's end. A poolboy could do that for you. His pay is his caught dinner.

Poolside amenities:

Bodily comfort -- A couple hammocks strung from nearby trees.

Swimming attire -- normal everyday clothes; combats sunburn--no need for expensive sunblocks

Refreshment -- A bottle of Chang with a wicker bowl full of deep-fried silkworms.

Twilight aroma -- Use those little mosquito coils

Nighttime illumination -- bare lightbulb hooked to a car battery and strung across the water. Yeah, good idea to keep it above arms' reach for the kids who want to play with it while swimming.

*********

P.S. My poor retired folks in the home country, on a fixed income, are still putting out between $200 and $300 a month for pool chemicals, a pool boy to skim the water with his net & check the equipment daily, and natural gas for the pool water heater. Now who's really living the care-free lifestyle?

Good one!!!

[astral]

tuky,

those pictures are from anthony sylvan pools, a company i worked for 7 years in the US. i can't tell you how much pool construction is here in thailand but try and take your time and get as many bids first. pick a good pool contractor and try and see some of his finished pools.

And ask to talk to some of the existing customers to see if they are satisfied.

[astral]

I will be looking at something like this with the decking and the spa.

I would love it to light up like this one at night.

Anyway, there is some great info here.

My back won't allow me to build it myself so it is a professional job for sure.

Anyone with an idea of what sort of money I am talking here? just for the pool, the spa and associated hardware?

Chon buri...

I didn't think your back garden was that big??

[lukamar]

Does anyone know of a fiberglass pool shell supplier in Chiang Mai?

[frikkiedeboer]

I am just digging a hole in the ground to do a 8x4x2 small pool in Isaan, and I can't find a good guy...

Start here with this link (thanks to dr_pat_pong for the link) and start sweat...

Swimming pool A-Z

Please let me know, I have nearly given up! TiT

here is an excerpt from a correspondance i had with khunandy on the same subject, hope it helps:

hi, i have been building fishponds and swimming pools in south africa for many years now. if you fly into johannesburg and look out of airplane the window you will see that just about every home has a pool. do check that you will have access to chlorine to keep your pool clean and kill bacteria, then build it yourself- it is easy!!! but hard work.

obviously you will have to build in the dry season. from my experience the soil conditions in isaan are unstable and i suggest a steel-reinforced concrete shell with a fibreglass liner. while the thais do seem to know about steel reinforcing,they tend to use too much steel and too little concrete-perhaps because they mix their concrete with too much water and compromise its strength. do not use the local idiots,but order a 30mpa waterproof mix from one of the readymix companies. if you calculate the cost it will surprise you to know that the savings on labour and frustration will result in the job getting done faster, and at almost the same price,with the added benefit of peace-of mind at knowing that the concrete was the correct strength. it is very important to lay an 8inch thick ringbeam of not less than 40cm wide around the perimiter.dig the hole to the required shape and use the "leksen" reinforcing steel they use in their silly house foundations,creating a lattice of 6inch squares. use something thicker for the ringbeam. incorporate a weir and a pool light into the design an do not forget to lay your filter pipes at the same time. i assume this is all available in thailand-contact me if not. have a team of go-fers ready when the concrete arrives,with wheelbarrows. let them pour the concrete bit by bit and get the guys to use farang-type spades to throw the concrete at the sidewalls. the yellow thai shovel stuff is not striong enough for this and nor are most thai males so use women!bottom goes last- you will find that this mostly happens by itself due to concrete falling down or slumping ..do not work it at this stage as it will slump down. get it to about 4inch thick and cast the ringbeam at about the same time.roughly shape it out. next day get the thais to plaster the sidewalls smooth- this is one thing they do do correctlly.

at this stage you could go for an epoxy paint to finish it off,but i would highly recomend a fibreglass liner. very easy to do yourself but messy as hel_l. source a 300gram mat cloth. calculate roughly how much you will need. order resin at about 1:1 matting weight to resin, with appropriate hardener. use a lambswool roller to first apply resin to the cement.glue down the matting to this,then roll in the resin until the stuff is fully soaked through the matting. cheapest resins and matting come from korea so start there when you look for it. cover the total area,overlapping sheets of matting by approx4inch .YOU MUST WORK FAST AND DO NOT MIX TOO MUCH RESIN AT A TIME COZ IT WILL SET WHILE YOU ARE ROLLING IT IN! oh,order a lot of acetone to get the shit out of your hair,eyes,nose,etc.

let this lot set overnight and then sand it roughly, before rolling in a flowcote to smoothe it all out. i suggest using a coloured resin and a clear flowcoat as you can then incorporate a printed mosaic pattern around the rim. white pools will turn blue once filled and ph is correct. black pools show less algae and remain a couple of degrees warmer . let me know if i can help u source sandfilters or design you a diy one or any drawings (will be rough). one thing you will find indespensable is an automatic pool cleaner,which works off the pump suction. you can paint your pool if you do not want the hassle of fibreglassing,but you may have difficulty sourcing the right paint. could also experiment with that white stuff they make the marble-lookalike floor stuff but i havent tried it out. your pool should not cost you much if you follow this route- your local hardware will be able to get you the readymix concrete. dont get a crap job done by a local "expert" - your only guarantee is a diy job. just look around before you trust a local "expert" how many pools are there really in thailand? the spraycrete thing went out of fashion in south africa years ago due to cracking problems,as did marblite and various other methods. please post this on the relevant forum as i will be pleased to help anybody in this regard free of charge. have seen some of the quotes some guys got for work that would definitely be substandard and they mostly come in at about ten times what they should be!! get it right and start a pool company-you will make a fortune

[

30mpa is the strength rating of the concrete and cpac will understand it and supply correctly. no need whatsoever for pilings. a 30mpa pool will not crack if reinforced correctly. the preformed weldmesh can be used but you are better off with the "leksen" especially if you are not going for a square pool. if you are going to use an automatic pool cleaner, you do not want sharp corners,rather quite a large radius,or the thing will continually get stuck,and will have difficulty climbing the walls.-this makes for difficult tiling for one! nobody in south africa has tiled a pool in the last thirty years, because pools are expected to last forever here, and if i look at thai tiling jobs in houses,even though they look good,method of application is totally wrong- they do not even know the principles involved and most jobs i have seen will not last for more than 5 years or so.do not use a local "expert"-maybe the pool companies do it differently,but then you are in for the 200k+thing again- a ridiculous price for this size of pool considering price of materials and labour in thailand i would highly recommend the use of a fibreglass liner-if correctly done it has huge advantages over tiling, will cost you less in chemicals and you will not have the black algae sticking in the grout. have seen sucessfully built pools here using only a cemented out hole for the shape, no concrete or reinforcing -uses a big ringbeam and then fibreglassed. same as vinyl, it can take some movement.

one thing to remember: NEVER EMPTY YOUR POOL IN THE RAINY SEASON! if your soil contains enough clay, you will end up with a pool lifting out of the ground-floating like a boat. if you were lucky and built with reinforced concrete you might get it back in the ground,but be warned!!

[Naam]

"How a swimming pool is built in Isaan"

:D

[dclaryjr]

"How a swimming pool is built in Isaan"

:D

Scroll down to the bottom of this page. I particularly like the hi-tech diving board!

Swimming

[Chaichara]

one thing to remember: NEVER EMPTY YOUR POOL IN THE RAINY SEASON! if your soil contains enough clay, you will end up with a pool lifting out of the ground-floating like a boat. if you were lucky and built with reinforced concrete you might get it back in the ground,but be warned!!

but I would tend to guard against statements like the above , as every pool builder knows about the hydrostatic valves that are built in to most modern maindrain units (which only cost around 1,500 baht complete.) and installs them as a matter of course.

I found this short, sweet and funny article which completely clears up any misunderstandings about pool construction and technology once and for all and in a language everyone can understand. It has all the links you need too. Top marks for its author in Isaan:

ALL You Need To Know About Your First Pool

[Nawtilus]

I have some questions, read the whole thread and many sites, still more info is better than less.

We have had several quotes for a relatively small pool of 10x3mx1.5m of between 800k and 1.1mil. We decided to do it ourselves as having a pool built here for double and more the cost of the same size pool back home is just against my religion.

So if anyone can answer any of these, feel free to express yourself.

Many of these questions and queries I have answers to, unfortunately I have several different answers to the same questions so just trying to clarify many areas.

How large as a percentage of the pools capacity, does a surge tank have to be ?

How to calculate the weight of the pool when full to see if it comes in under the piles in place. By weight I mean how to calculate the pool structure weight and then the water when full also.

How do you calculate the spread of the load over the pilings ?

What is considered to be the most critical part of construction of the pool ?

How do you calculate the size of the pump and size of filter required ?

Is a single pour prefered over pouring in segments ?

Does adding extra 'waterproofing' to the readymix load create any problems ? a builder told me they throw in their own waterproofing as they not sure if the readymix company has done it correctly if at all.

How do you seal lights, inlets and the hydrostatic valve etc. I have wondered how a pvc pipe encased into concrete actually seals so well, surely any pinhole mistake will result in significant leaks when under pressure from the entire pool load of water.

How does the hydrostatic vale work ? particulalry in relation to the pool floating out of its resting place.

What is the most critical aspect to laying tiles properly that will not peel off in any short period of time ?

[Nawtilus]

Also....

I how does the hydrostatic valve work and is it essential...as I have seen several pools around without any drains/piping in the flooring.

And is there any reason why inlet pipes cannot be put in an upper section of the pool, for example the steps, or say 1 to 1.2 m above the floor in the walls at one end ?

[croftrobin]

Also....

I how does the hydrostatic valve work and is it essential...as I have seen several pools around without any drains/piping in the flooring.

And is there any reason why inlet pipes cannot be put in an upper section of the pool, for example the steps, or say 1 to 1.2 m above the floor in the walls at one end ?

The Hydrostatic Valve is ESSENTIAL if your water table is very close to the bottom of your pool.

To explain it simply:

If your water table is just below your pool bottom and you have a lot of rainfall raising the water table level - it will push your entire pool upwards - think of a bowl in a sink - turn on the tap and the bowl will float in the water. The same will happen to your pool - causing cracks and pipework breaks - if you do not have a Hydrostatic Valve.

If you have a Hydrostatic Valve in your main drain and if the water table rises higher than your pool floor, the valve allows the ground water into the pool - ok you get some dirty pool water - but - your pool does not float and break- thus saving you a few hundred thousand baht for repairs!

If the position of your pool is a lot higher than the water table at its highest in the wet season - eg In my own case - then its not so important. If you don't know then install one.

In the last pool that I helped oversee installation of in locally in Issan, we fitted one as it is not expensive (under 3K Baht) in relation to the total build cost of the pool, and is incorporated into the main drain which links to the skimmer(s) box.

Water returning to the pool from the filter enters the pool normally via the walls (commonly known as eyeball sockets - as they can be adjusted to direct flow) these can be installed where-ever you wish. Ideal positioning is halfway down the wall from the surface to the bottom.

Depending upon the size of you pool you will typically have 3,4 or 5 (more on large pools) eyeball sockets.

If you have steps, yes it is a good idea to have en eyeball at the top step as it will wash all the dirt/sand etc from the step to the bottom of the pool.

If you have steps (as opposed to just a ladder) I would certainly recommend that you utilise the main drain in your circulation as well as the skimmer(s) as more dirt tends to be carried into a pool with steps as opposed to one with just a ladder.

[Chaichara]

I would just reiterate what I posted earlier, a maindrain unit is sold nowadays almost always with an intergral hydrostatic valve. The injection moulded unit is ridiculously simple and is already overpriced at ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED BAHT.

WE install these as a mater of course in all in-ground pools whether the owner wants it or not.

[kratindaeng]

Firstly, building a pool in Thailand should be mega cheap: concreate, white cement, tiles, plastic pipes and steel rods are available everywhere for next to nothing as they are standard build materials. Cheap labour is also available everywhere. The only things that will be expensive are the swimming pool specific things: pump, leaf traps, pool cleaner, etc; these are likely to be imported. I'm planning to build one soon, and have been researching this for a long time.

Recently did quite a lot of concreating to build a large box drain for the rainy season: I got through 18 bags of Portland cement, 5 cubic meters of gravel and 5 cubic meters of sand. All the materials cost me less than 6000 baht. I did pretty much most of the work myself as all the local labourers are related to my wife, and while their labour might be cheap, buying them beer, coffee and lowcow would considerably bump up the cost of the construction! It was an experiment in how cheaply I could do the job, with a view to using the experience to build my pool.

I want a large pool as I'm a swimmer as I like doing lenghts.

I've live in Thailand about 8 years, and would warn some of you out there that value for money is a rather new concept in Thailand, and generally small entrepreuners will take you for as much as you are prepared to pay. So don't pay too much for your pool!

I can confirm its mega cheap to build small pools in Thailand; two friends have done so.

Some points. Don't forget Thailand is a hot country. Bear this in mind when you design your pool. I intend to build a roof over mine so that it is indeed a cool refreshing experience! This will add to the cost, and needs to be factored in. A roof can be built quite cheaply using a wood or steel frame. You also need to consider how you will keep the dust out in the dry season, not to mention Thailands wildlife (frogs/snakes/etc). A pool cover would most certainly be required. Finally; Thailand has regular flooding. In my village, I have been flooded 3 times in 8 years; my pool will be raised considerably so that it won't get flooded, and I will be getting my wifes cousin to deliver quite a number of dump trucks of dirt to raise the level (he is the local government contract maintainer of dirt roads).

Hope the info helps.

Excellent post maichai, would you be able to post any pics of the pool and possibly a few tips on building? I was researching this very topic yesterday with my gf and must say you have hit the nail on the head so to speak! thanks for your advice!

KD

[Nawtilus]

Ok, hydro valve understood now and guessed it was along those lines, just was not sure as the theory of stinking ground water around bangkok getting into my pool regularly is not a nice thought.

We have the site excavated and it fills overnight with water, I believe this is more a drainage or such leak somewhere rather than such a high water table.

Thanks for the info.

Ok, how about anyone on all the other questions ??

[Naam]

To explain it simply:

If your water table is just below your pool bottom and you have a lot of rainfall raising the water table level - it will push your entire pool upwards - think of a bowl in a sink - turn on the tap and the bowl will float in the water. The same will happen to your pool - causing cracks and pipework breaks - if you do not have a Hydrostatic Valve.

if you have a lot of rain your pool (if not roofed like mine) will be always full, matching the water table and the total pool weight (concrete with a much higher specific weight than ambient groundwater as well as its water content) will prevent it to float up. in this specific case and many others a hydrostatic valve is as superfluous as the uterus of a nun who pledged eternal celibacy.

of course the pool will float like a bowl in a sink when empty. but who in his right mind and rudimentary knowledge of the laws of physics will empty a pool in the rainy season? perhaps to check whether the hydrostatic valve works properly and allows dirty water in?

[Chaichara]

If the pumping and filtration capacities have been calculated correctly, and you are using, prefereably, a far superior filter medium than sand, such as Zelbrite or equivalent, the slight amount of cloudy water will be quickly treated by the filtration plant. It will not be stinking or contaminated as groundwater at that depth has already undergone a huge amount of natural filtration - like well water.

Remember that the hydrostatic valve is also an integral part of a modern maindrain unit (1,500 baht complete) and the cloudy water will be sucked into the filtration system immediately. Be sure to use common sense and follow the new Western regulations on pool design and incorporate TWO interconnected maindrains spaced at least 1m apart to avoid any lightweight bathers or small children getting sucked onto the grating.

There is a vast resource of excellent free advice on DIY pools on this free, non-commercial , no ads, forum contributed voluntarily by DIY and professional pool experts on this site which also gives links to the best sources for materials in Thailand. 99% of the technical equipment used here is imported from Australia, the world's leading manufacturer of pool equipment. The cost of a pump and filter will not exceed around 35,000 baht. There are some cheap Chinese copies arriving recently on the Thai market. One avoids these of course.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Chaichara

[Fore Man]

We are building a home in CM and want to add a salt-chlorinated pool about 5 x 8 meters. We have just received a quote from a local ready-made pool builder (unnamed for now; unsure of Forum rules) and find his quote exhorbitant (1.1 million THB including the surrounding patio sandwash patio); this is a simple pool and nothing fancy. No overflow return system, no jacuzzi and no ladders or diving boards. Can anybody in the CM area recommend a good pool builder with experience in salt-chlorinated pools? We would vastly prefer a tile lined pool for their beauty, but have seen the posts suggesting that tiles can lift and cause problems. This overpriced, but apparently high-quality builder makes a pool that includes its own shell and then places a heavy duty vinyl liner over that shell. We find that combination rather boring to look at and the vinyl is offered in one light blue color only. Would appreciate any comments or recommendations. Thanks.

[Chaichara]

That quoted price is truly extortionate. Unless there is some particularlr engineering difficulry for building a poolon your property, a quality, fully tiles, concrete in-ground pool that size costs less than a third to build, including a handsome profit for the contractor. This coorganisation gives free advice on howto avoid these scams.

[cdnvic]

Regarding tile lined pools, if they are installed properly they will far outlast any paint you can put on it. The thing to watch is your mineral hardness. If your water is too soft, minerals will leach out of the grout and result in tiles coming loose. Calcium levels should always be above 180ppm (around 250-280ppm is best).

[nobber9999]

<font color='#000000'>Yes,i also read this site,but its the same with everything.Some mary a thai lady and devorce the same year,and others stay for ever,some guys have all the luck.You wil never know.I also ask on a other site about a swimming pool,and they told me that it cost +/_320000 bath,but the builder stays in pattaya,and my house is in Surin.I think its better to have someone from or nearby Surin city.

By the way,were you have a house in isaan?</font>

[phanu]

I'm in Chiang Mai and I've made my pool in concrete 2 years ago

Free size

Surface : 250 m2 / water : 400 m3

2 sand filters / 700l per mn each

UV traitement

I use only 1 glass of chemical against green algues every 10 to 15 days...

No Chlorine or other chemical... Water is perfect !

Total : Around 1M THB

Picture of the pool :

http://muanglen.online.fr/sansai10-ete07/07-p05.html

http://muanglen.online.fr/sansai10-ete07/07-p10.html

[MrSquigle]

Very nice looking pool and design.

I like the no chlorine or chemical deal.

[Naam]

Very nice looking pool and design.

I like the no chlorine or chemical deal.

a zillion of invisible bacteria in pool water agree with your liking.

[MrSquigle]

whats that word for scary water bacteria syndrome ???

I guess the dude and family and friends swimming in it all the time are sick 24/7....poor buggers.

Do you throw chlorine in a river upstream before you swim in it also ??