North Korea tests another ICBM, putting U.S. cities in range

[smedly]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

If the DPRK would use their nukes at the drop of a hat, then why haven't they done so already? After all, they are supposed to be crazy...

they do not have the ability .....................................yet

[baboon]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

they do not have the ability .....................................yet

Whether they could hit the US or not is certainly debatable, but they could lay waste to Japan, a country they despise almost as much as they do with America...

[smedly]

52 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

If N.Korea wanted to detonate a nuclear weapon or a few nuclear weapons in the US; Why use an ICBM?  They will see that coming and possibly shoot it down.  Why not use a submarine and creep up on the US, then launch a cruise missile, or even come ashore somewhere and smuggle it in?  

 

The reality is that a nuclear armed nation has many options if they want to launch a nuclear attack out of the blue w/o any specific reason.  The attack would likely lead back to them.  So if they really wanted to attack the US with nuclear weapons-which they have had for some time, then they would have done it already and same goes with Iran.   ICBMs is the same technology is used for launching satellites so it's difficult to tell these countries 'you are not allowed to do that'.

exactly why limiting the proliferation of nuclear weapons around the world is of interest to everyone, can you imagine a world free for all if every country had them, when you have muslims that are quite comfortable with strapping a bomb to themselves and walking into a crowded shopping mall then what potentially would/could they do with a nuke if they had one.  

[midas]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

I think the idea is to keep nukes out of the hands of lunatics and regimes that would actually use them at the drop of a hat. It is bad enough that these crackpot dictators abuse their own people but when they are looking for the ability to extend that abuse beyond their borders then that affects us all.

 

It would be great if we had a world free of such weapons but the reality is if someone has them then someone else needs to have them in case they get carried away - remember history has taught us that humans can be very greedy and generally evil against one another, there are always those with a need dominate and control then there are the good guys that want to stop them.

 

"  keep nukes out of the hands of lunatics and regimes that would actually use them at the drop of a hat "

 

 

 Well that’s a matter of opinion as to which country represents the greatest threat.

I would be  more worried about a small Middle East country that has simply ignored approximately 28 United Nations Security Council resolutions (North Korea has violated 21) and has a totally secret nuclear arsenal

[smedly]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

Whether they could hit the US or not is certainly debatable, but they could lay waste to Japan, a country they despise almost as much as they do with America...

they don't have the ability..................... yet, exactly what this discussion is about, stopping them from having that ability

[baboon]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

exactly why limiting the proliferation of nuclear weapons around the world is of interest to everyone, can you imagine a world free for all if every country had them, when you have muslims that are quite comfortable with strapping a bomb to themselves and walking into a crowded shopping mall then what potentially would/could they do with a nuke if they had one.  

We would already have the answer if they did. However the real headacases are few in number and are unlikely to get their hands on nuclear materials. 

Remember at the turn of the century when we were warned that there were such bombs aplenty in the markets of the former USSR? That turned out to be a load of cack as well. These things are enormously well guarded.

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

they don't have the ability..................... yet, exactly what this discussion is about, stopping them from having that ability

So you disagree that they could really do a number on Japan?

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, baboon said:

We would already have the answer if they did. However the real headacases are few in number and are unlikely to get their hands on nuclear materials. 

Remember at the turn of the century when we were warned that there were such bombs aplenty in the markets of the former USSR? That turned out to be a load of cack as well. These things are enormously well guarded.

and how well guarded would they be in N.Korea or Iran, honestly - you need to waken up to this and stop arguing for the sake of it, there are very obvious reasons why certain countries should not have a nuclear ability, take yourself back 80 odd years - do you think mankind has changed that much - I don't think so and it seems we will find out soon enough, and while the shit hits the fan in N.Korea watch how Russia takes advantage and moves into the Ukraine............what next 

[thaihome]

Give Up on Denuclearizing North Korea

The question now is how to convince it not to use its weapons.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/give-up-on-denuclearizing-north-korea/535347/

 

TH 

[baboon]

8 minutes ago, smedly said:

and how well guarded would they be in N.Korea or Iran, honestly - you need to waken up to this and stop arguing for the sake of it, there are very obvious reasons why certain countries should not have a nuclear ability, take yourself back 80 odd years - do you think mankind has changed that much - I don't think so and it seems we will find out soon enough, and while the shit hits the fan in N.Korea watch how Russia takes advantage and moves into the Ukraine............what next 

How well guarded would they be in the DPRK or Iran? Very, like everywhere else.

 

Nuclear proliferation is certainly undesirable, but what are you going to do when you have a big boy's club who have no intention of getting rid of theirs, lecturing others? 

 

Arguing for the sake of it? No, just engaging you in coversation on a topic I am interested in. If you think I am talking crap that's fine, but I still appreciate your views even if I do not happen to share them.

[champers]

Should we read anything into the fact that DJT has just appointed a general as his new Chief of Staff?

[blazes]

58 minutes ago, midas said:

 

"  keep nukes out of the hands of lunatics and regimes that would actually use them at the drop of a hat "

 

 

 Well that’s a matter of opinion as to which country represents the greatest threat.

I would be  more worried about a small Middle East country that has simply ignored approximately 28 United Nations Security Council resolutions (North Korea has violated 21) and has a totally secret nuclear arsenal

Thank God for Israel.   We can sleep better at night safe in the knowledge that if any of those camel-riding countries surrounding it were to develop a nuclear bomb, Israel would snuff it out pretty damn quickly.

[TKDfella]

There could be several reasons why this missile (only) flew 1000 km. Some have already been mentioned here but we weren't there so we don't really know if this was deliberate or the limit of its capacity. Therefore, I'd rather forget about the launch itself and concentrate on the intent. Two launches in a month sounds more like a message to me but I wonder who is meant to be the recipient. China must feel it is being made to look foolish in the eyes of others because they are apparently just as helpless as the rest when it comes to persuading NK to desist. If anyone has to 'go in' and stop NK the Chinese must also know it would be better for them to do it rather than anyone else. In addition it would really make them look good at the UN. However, on the other side of the coin SK etc might get attacked by NK and that would tarnish the effort somewhat and possibly China would get blamed so is that why they don't do more? This keg is bound to explode one day, maybe not in the near future, but it is bound to happen one way or another and in my opinion if China doesn't do more now it will end up with more than just egg on its face. 

[Ron19]

Off topic post and reply removed.

[vandv]

its a deterrent against US aggression

 

 

 

 

[attrayant]

Paranoid Lil Kim defines everything the US does as aggressive.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

There could be several reasons why this missile (only) flew 1000 km. Some have already been mentioned here but we weren't there so we don't really know if this was deliberate or the limit of its capacity. Therefore, I'd rather forget about the launch itself and concentrate on the intent. Two launches in a month sounds more like a message to me but I wonder who is meant to be the recipient. China must feel it is being made to look foolish in the eyes of others because they are apparently just as helpless as the rest when it comes to persuading NK to desist. If anyone has to 'go in' and stop NK the Chinese must also know it would be better for them to do it rather than anyone else. In addition it would really make them look good at the UN. However, on the other side of the coin SK etc might get attacked by NK and that would tarnish the effort somewhat and possibly China would get blamed so is that why they don't do more? This keg is bound to explode one day, maybe not in the near future, but it is bound to happen one way or another and in my opinion if China doesn't do more now it will end up with more than just egg on its face. 

 

I am also surprised that China is seemingly OK to have a nuclear armed mad man 800 km from Beijing, but so far they have done very little to stop the fat boy.

Edited July 29, 2017 by ExpatOilWorker

[tryasimight]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

exactly why limiting the proliferation of nuclear weapons around the world is of interest to everyone, can you imagine a world free for all if every country had them, when you have muslims that are quite comfortable with strapping a bomb to themselves and walking into a crowded shopping mall then what potentially would/could they do with a nuke if they had one.  

Pakistan was a Muslim country last time I looked.

[Jdiddy]

To my knowledge a nuclear armed country has never been invaded and taken over or "liberated" so it's obvious Kim just wants another ace in the hole MAD card

 

 

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, TKDfella said:

There could be several reasons why this missile (only) flew 1000 km. Some have already been mentioned here but we weren't there so we don't really know if this was deliberate or the limit of its capacity. Therefore, I'd rather forget about the launch itself and concentrate on the intent. Two launches in a month sounds more like a message to me but I wonder who is meant to be the recipient. China must feel it is being made to look foolish in the eyes of others because they are apparently just as helpless as the rest when it comes to persuading NK to desist. If anyone has to 'go in' and stop NK the Chinese must also know it would be better for them to do it rather than anyone else. In addition it would really make them look good at the UN. However, on the other side of the coin SK etc might get attacked by NK and that would tarnish the effort somewhat and possibly China would get blamed so is that why they don't do more? This keg is bound to explode one day, maybe not in the near future, but it is bound to happen one way or another and in my opinion if China doesn't do more now it will end up with more than just egg on its face. 

Yeah it only went 1000 Km from the launch pad. But it reached 3700 km altitude which is 3300 km above the International Space Station.  So a very high arc. If you aimed it  several degrees lower you are going to see a lot more distance traveled, especially since most of that travel is in outer space and in greatly reduced gravity.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Yeah it only went 1000 Km from the launch pad. But it reached 3700 km altitude which is 3300 km above the International Space Station.  So a very high arc. If you aimed it  several degrees lower you are going to see a lot more distance traveled, especially since most of that travel is in outer space and in greatly reduced gravity.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong

but at such altitude a payload could be easily placed into  a short orbit and re-enter anywhere in the world?  In fact NK has placed satellites in orbit. What's to prevent NK from placing a nuclear payload in orbit?  I understand the  challenge with such devises is no  destroying the payload  by burning up during re-entry

 

[tartempion]

So the USA invades Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irak without valid reason but can't act against a dangerous fool in North Korea?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, tartempion said:

So the USA invades Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irak without valid reason but can't act against a dangerous fool in North Korea?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

What do you suggest?

[YetAnother]

"said the launch showed Los Angeles was within range of a North Korean missile, with Chicago, New York and Washington, just out of reach."

==Exchange LA for North Korea ? interesting idea, not that the LA folks would appreciate it much.….

[Xaos]

Ironically the only country ever used nuclear bombs is US.

 

Country with 3000+ nukes feeling unsafe about N. Korea none existent rockets, give me a break.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gulfsailor]

55 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Yeah it only went 1000 Km from the launch pad. But it reached 3700 km altitude which is 3300 km above the International Space Station.  So a very high arc. If you aimed it  several degrees lower you are going to see a lot more distance traveled, especially since most of that travel is in outer space and in greatly reduced gravity.

A typical trajectory for an icbm gets it to a height of up to 1000km. Gravity at that height is still around 75% of surface gravity. Drag on the other hand will be nearly zero. 

A rocket intended to launch a satellite has a much higher speed as it needs to reach a velocity where it goes so fast that even while it gets pulled back to earth due to gravity, the curvature of earth prevents it falling back onto earth. Should the rocket then be steered back down, its speed would create too much friction with the earth atmosphere, and thus it will burn up. 

[quadperfect]

33 minutes ago, tartempion said:

So the USA invades Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irak without valid reason but can't act against a dangerous fool in North Korea?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

I agree with the last part but there were reasons for the first part. But the last part is no doubt a big reason

[flipflop99]

8 hours ago, baboon said:

If the DPRK would use their nukes at the drop of a hat, then why haven't they done so already? After all, they are supposed to be crazy...

The Girl with Seven Names: A North Korean Defector’s Story

by Hyeonseo Lee (Goodreads Author), David John

 

Maybe they are not Crazy enough to start a self defeating holocaust  but maybe they are crazy enough to lash out vindictively at their most hated enemy (USA) and also their nearest economic embarrassment (SK ) if the economy tanks even further and the regime fears it might fall to an alternative internal power block?  My fear is  if another famine strikes and the world fails to dive in with relief because of NK "nuke fatigue".  I certainly wouldn't want my TAX Dollars used to buy food aid for starving NK citizens which allows the regime to preserve its resources to bolster their position from a  famine created by themselves.  

Edited July 29, 2017 by flipflop99
spelling / syntax error

[RobFord]

The shot landed 1,000-km away, but it was lofted at a steep angle, which shortened it's maximum range dramatically. Western scientists have calculated that if launched on a flatter angle, the ICBM could have easily reached well into the US mainland.  That being said, we don't know with certainty if a nK-designed nuclear warhead as exists today has reached sufficient design capability to survive reentry and detonate successfully. 

Right. They're working on the nuclear war head surviving the heat of re-entry. Once that's done they've got it and can strike the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[baboon]

56 minutes ago, flipflop99 said:

The Girl with Seven Names: A North Korean Defector’s Story

by Hyeonseo Lee (Goodreads Author), David John

 

Maybe they are not Crazy enough to start a self defeating holocaust  but maybe they are crazy enough to lash out vindictively at their most hated enemy (USA) and also their nearest economic embarrassment (SK ) if the economy tanks even further and the regime fears it might fall to an alternative internal power block?  My fear is  if another famine strikes and the world fails to dive in with relief because of NK "nuke fatigue".  I certainly wouldn't want my TAX Dollars used to buy food aid for starving NK citizens which allows the regime to preserve its resources to bolster their position from a  famine created by themselves.  

Their economy is actually doing quite well in relative terms, and their harvests have been recently pretty good. Hunger is not currently much of a problem though malnutrition is.