Police again extorting foreigners that dont carry passport

[davidst01]

22 hours ago, tonray said:

Likely working with the tuk-tuk operator too.

it exactly what I thought. 

[Tarteso]

22 hours ago, thaifoodruns said:

Read this

 

Know ur rights

 

I always start filming when they do their shit

 

http://www.richardbarrow.com/2014/12/know-your-rights-if-a-policeman-stops-you-in-bangkok/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Thanks for share. But....

 

1.1 Foreigners may take photos of police officers who do the search before searching begins.

 

Is Legal? Are you sure? Can I take photo of the "police" ?

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, alex8912 said:

Oh not a bit aggressive or cheeky  filming them  eh?  I would never support your post .  No one should 

 

if in a well lighted are with people but at a desolate intersection i would think twice about filming. these cops are akin to low life thugs and do not necessarily ponder the consequences of actions they take.

[midas]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's a published law it's not extortion.

Who to believe?

 

Thailand police: Foreigners not required to carry passports at all times

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/12/thailand-police-foreigners-not-required-to-carry-passports-at-all-times/#ovcD8ya5kQvuU68e.97

 

Foreigners In Thailand Asked To Carry Passport Or Copy At All Times – BSA Law

 

http://beforeitsnews.com/international/2016/03/foreigners-in-thailand-asked-to-carry-passport-or-copy-at-all-times-bsa-law-2489708.html

[craigt3365]

The law actually states you have to prove you are in the country legally.  Which means a valid visa.  Which is only in your passport if you are a foreigner like most of us are.  Some police have accepted a copy, some haven't.  You can argue all you want, but the law is clear as mud.  As has been discussed ad nauseam over the years.

 

If you want to be 100% safe, carry your passport.  I don't, but I understand the consequences.  Which are minimal.

 

P.S. when traveling outside my area, I always take my passport with me.

Edited September 17, 2017 by craigt3365

[sinbin]

Everytime a police officer writes out a fine he receives 95% of the fine on top of his wages. Unfortunately the money is pooled between him and others, mostly office bound officers. That's not a good thing for the issuing officer as he wants it all, so hence the extortion, it's cash in hand. In fact if every police officer was to issue a ticket for all offences he comes across that 95% can be a big pot of money if the officer did his job with enthusiasm. But that would mean getting off his a-r-s-e and work. Always seems to be the easy option with these people.

[Thai Ron]

20 hours ago, tropo said:

You don't pay fines in the street - you pay them at the police station. 

I wouldn't know - it's never gotten that far for me.

In any case, this was a shakedown, plain as day.

If you're going to be too much hard work for them, they send you on your way

[tropo]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

The law actually states you have to prove you are in the country legally.  Which means a valid visa.  Which is only in your passport if you are a foreigner like most of us are.  Some police have accepted a copy, some haven't.  You can argue all you want, but the law is clear as mud.  As has been discussed ad nauseam over the years.

 

If you want to be 100% safe, carry your passport.  I don't, but I understand the consequences.  Which are minimal.

 

P.S. when traveling outside my area, I always take my passport with me.

As I stated in a post above, you are definitely not 100% safe if you carry your passport. According to my lawyer, it's a bad idea to present your passport to police or other officials as things can go wrong - they can take it or even lose it. Secondly, if you carry it, you can lose it or accidentally damage it. I keep mine locked up in my safe. That's the only place it's 100% safe. If an official wants to see the original and started making drama I would tell him it's at my lawyer's office and call them. Real events have prompted this advice from my lawyer.

 

PS. I do carry it when I'm outside my area and going to check into hotels. Of course, I also carry it when I'm about to conduct business at the Immigration office.

 

One time I forgot my wife's passport was in my pants pocket and washed it.

 

As you say, the consequences of not carrying your original passport are minimal and not worth the risk.

[sinbin]

13 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The law actually states you have to prove you are in the country legally.

No. You only have to prove your ID. Thai police wouldn't know a  legal stamp in your passport. That's the job of the Immigration police.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, sinbin said:

No. You only have to prove your ID. Thai police wouldn't know a  legal stamp in your passport. That's the job of the Immigration police.

Do not post inaccurate info. That is wrong.  It's your visa that's important.  Not your ID. LOL

 

In the end, most of these are just money makers.  Happens all the time.

Edited September 17, 2017 by craigt3365

[tropo]

7 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

I wouldn't know - it's never gotten that far for me.

In any case, this was a shakedown, plain as day.

If you're going to be too much hard work for them, they send you on your way

I would never pay a "fine" on the street. 

 

In this case, it was 100% scam and obvious. I would tell them to write out a ticket so I can pay it at the station. It's unlikely they would take it any further. If they did, I would call my lawyer.

 

I don't think they have a fine for that, which would mean that they would have to take me to the police station so that I could verify my ID assuming they don't accept the laminated copy which I carry. If they threaten to do that, I'm going for a ride to the station - no problems. I wouldn't act concerned and wouldn't give them tea money.

Edited September 17, 2017 by tropo

[dsj]

You can carry a copy, this might help.

 

[survivalblue]

I watched a corrupt police officer on the walkway to MBK accosting foreigners for passports in March 2016,.  I walked by and he ignored me.  They tend to go after those who either appear weak with Asian girlfriend or those who appear lost and confused.

If he had come at me I'd have told him to f off.  But he ignored me altogether.

[ToddinChonburi]

Immigration holds your passport for a day !!

[Tchooptip]

As a tourist, that is to say, 2/3 weeks in Thailand, many probably carry their passport most of the time.

As an expat I do not, but my Thai driving license yes, by carrying it for days in my wallet it won't deteriorate, sorry my passport would be in a poor condition should I carry it everyday everywhere all the time.

On the other hand in nearly 6 years I've never been asked for my passport, on the road they've always been satisfied with my DL, but of course, maybe I've been lucky that's all?

 

[sinbin]

19 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Do not post inaccurate info

I am correct. It's you that is wrong. I don't carry my passport around with me. I carry my Pink Thai ID Card. It does not carry my visa details.

 

PS. Craig3365. A Pink Thai ID card can be used in a bank instead of using your passport.

Edited September 17, 2017 by sinbin

[terryofcrete]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's a published law it's not extortion.

You are not Irish ! That's for sure . Love to see them try that on us ! 

[edwardflory]

HINT:

ALWAYS carry a COPY of your passport - go to a Kodak store, get a color WALLET size sealed in plastic for under 100THB. ( I consider it a 100THB Insurance policy ) I also carry a copy of my last 2 permissions to stay - not sealed in plastic

 

ALSO, The police CAN tell you to report to the police station with your Passport and other documents, but must give you reasonable time to comply.

 

If money wanted for any reason,  PAY at police station and get a receipt.

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by edwardflory
spelling

[Tchooptip]

22 hours ago, elliss said:

Interpretation of the  law ,  varies  quite  a lot , in the kingdom .

"Interpretation of the  law ,  varies  quite  a lot , in the kingdom"

Interpretation of absolutely everything and its opposite varies quite  a lot , in the kingdom.

[craigt3365]

16 minutes ago, sinbin said:

I am correct. It's you that is wrong. I don't carry my passport around with me. I carry my Pink Thai ID Card. It does not carry my visa details.

 

PS. Craig3365. A Pink Thai ID card can be used in a bank instead of using your passport.

But a bank isn't the police.  And your Thai ID card doesn't have your visa info.  Believe me, this is what's important.  My Thai DL has my passport number on it, but that's not going to save me.  Only a valid visa stamp will. 

 

Here in Pattaya, many have been taken down to the station for only having copies.  Some end up in Bangkok if they can't produce the passport within 24 hours.  Again, sometimes a paper copy works.  But not always.

[hawker9000]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's a published law it's not extortion.

Oh stop.  This has been debated back & forth here on TV for years & years.  The law actually is that you have to carry ID, not the passport per se.  That said, we all know that Thai police looking for easy cash will say the law is whatever they need for it to be (yes, you actually COULD call it extortion, genius), and then halfwits go running off repeating it as gospel because they "experienced it firsthand".  There's no accounting for shakedowns, but if you'll take your passport to a photoshop they can make a nice little plastic card for you that shows the ID page of your passport on one side and the entry stamp on the back side.   Or you can probably just get photocopies made at an Internet Café or your hotel's front desk, to carry in you wallet.  Cheap insurance.

 

You really DON'T want to carry your passport around with you, esp. in the entertainment zones, on the BTS, Siam Square, etc. where they can and do get pickpocketed.  (And THAT'S firsthand experience, friend!)  It's not the end of the world (to get a replacement), but it won't be the highlight of your trip either. And if it happens a 2nd time, or have ever had it happen somewhere before, you're bound to like it even less...    The pickpockets in Bangkok DO operate as well-coordinated gangs and are about as good as any anywhere, and they're an extremely LOW law enforcement priority (as you'll probably observe when you go to the police station to file your report, which'll be just part of the fun in obtaining the replacement from your consulate). 

 

Yes, a cop who for some reason is motivated to make your life difficult MIGHT make a show out of hauling you into the police station (although 99% of the time I think that would peter out with you calling his bluff and ASKING to go to the police station), but I've never ever heard of anyone NOT being afforded the opportunity to either fetch their passport themselves or have it fetched (e.g., by hotel staff, whatever...)  EXCEPT in cases where there was something ELSE going on with the detainee in the first place (suspected drug use or sales, suspicion of overstay, criminal complaint, brawl, argument, failure to pay a bar tab,  etc., etc., etc.).  In fact, I've only RARELY heard of anyone being inconvenienced if they had a photocopy with them (AGAIN, EXCEPT where there was something else going on...).   (If someone claims differently here on TV, the first question to ask yourself is whether you're actually hearing the whole story, or not...)

 

Your choice, but the odds of carrying your passport with you and losing it or having it pickpocketed are AT LEAST as great (much greater IMO) than the odds of some random police encounter wherein you only had photocopy and that was NOT deemed acceptable.  I can see definite loss of face on the part of the police officer wasting everyone's time hauling you up in front of a magistrate and having to tell him that you actually DO have a perfectly valid passport with no immigration issues but were only carrying a photocopy because you were afraid of losing it and were not afforded any opportunity to produce it.  Now if you're operating a motor vehicle, esp. without a THAI drivers license, then I wouldn't be quite so sure and would have to defer to those who regularly drive in Thailand.

 

 

[tropo]

35 minutes ago, sinbin said:

Everytime a police officer writes out a fine he receives 95% of the fine on top of his wages. Unfortunately the money is pooled between him and others, mostly office bound officers. That's not a good thing for the issuing officer as he wants it all, so hence the extortion, it's cash in hand. In fact if every police officer was to issue a ticket for all offences he comes across that 95% can be a big pot of money if the officer did his job with enthusiasm. But that would mean getting off his a-r-s-e and work. Always seems to be the easy option with these people.

No way! None of the ticket money paid at the police station goes to the officers. Zero. It's their job and they have a quota. If your theory was correct they'd be giving out 10x the tickets they give out now.

 

If they did receive 95% of the money, even sharing it around, they'd be so rich they wouldn't need to extort money on the side.

 

At the time they tried to extort me for traffic offenses they had plain clothes people nearby to handle the money.

[craigt3365]

This is an excellent summary of the 2 Thai laws related to this.  It's not very clear, but interpretation is up to the officer.  If they want to see your passport, you've got to show it.  From the link below:

 

Quote

A separate immigration law states foreigners must carry their passport at all times, although the wording is more analogous to "must be able to present" vs "carry at all times"

Must be able to present is subject to interpretation. 

 

 

[hawker9000]

7 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

But a bank isn't the police.  And your Thai ID card doesn't have your visa info.  Believe me, this is what's important.  My Thai DL has my passport number on it, but that's not going to save me.  Only a valid visa stamp will. 

 

Here in Pattaya, many have been taken down to the station for only having copies.  Some end up in Bangkok if they can't produce the passport within 24 hours.  Again, sometimes a paper copy works.  But not always.

"Here in Pattaya, many have been taken down to the station for only having copies. "

 

"Many"!!??  Nope.  Not buyin' it.  BS.  Hearsay.   Those that go down to the police station have other issues, and sometimes don't want to share that part of the story.  Now the part about ending up in Bangkok IF they can't produce a valid passport within 24 hrs, as anyone SHOULD be able to do, I DO believe.  But that's an entirely different ballgame.

 

 

 

[tropo]

29 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

As a tourist, that is to say, 2/3 weeks in Thailand, many probably carry their passport most of the time.

 

 

If you're a tourist, do you carry your passport with you most of the time? I never do that no matter where I go. I always keep it in the hotel safe when I'm travelling and I'm sure most others do too.

[hawker9000]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

If you're a tourist, do you carry your passport with you most of the time? I never do that no matter where I go. I always keep it in the hotel safe when I'm travelling and I'm sure most others do too.

Yeap. If they're smart.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

"Here in Pattaya, many have been taken down to the station for only having copies. "

 

"Many"!!??  Nope.  Not buyin' it.  BS.  Hearsay.   Those that go down to the police station have other issues, and sometimes don't want to share that part of the story.  Now the part about ending up in Bangkok IF they can't produce a valid passport within 24 hrs, as anyone SHOULD be able to do, I DO believe.  But that's an entirely different ballgame.

Not hearsay.  I heard this directly from the guy who had to go there.  Was caught in a round up at a gentleman's club.  Those with copies were let go.  Those without went to the station.  It was also reported here on Thaivisa.  About 3-4 years ago.  I'll try to find the link.

 

Be nice.

[hawker9000]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Not hearsay.  I heard this directly from the guy who had to go there.  Was caught in a round up at a gentleman's club.  Those with copies were let go.  Those without went to the station.  It was also reported here on Thaivisa.  About 3-4 years ago.  I'll try to find the link.

 

Be nice.

"Those with copies were let go."

 

EXACTLY what I said/am saying!!  Just EXACTLY!!! 

 

Be real.

 

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, hawker9000 said:

"Those with copies were let go."

 

EXACTLY what I said/am saying!!  Just EXACTLY!!! 

 

Be real.

 

Be nice.

[amvet]

5 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Yeap. If they're smart.

I carry a copy and all my immigration records on my smart phone not really a problem for most people in this century to keep copies of everything on your phone.