SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

In BrexiteerLand it is OK to hold the graphs upside down.

 

4 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

In remoaner land it is ok to read the guardian-hahahaha.

Clearly, holding the graphs upside down is the way to go.

Edited November 9, 2017 by SheungWan

[dundee48]

Just now, SheungWan said:

 

Clearly holding the graphs upside down is the way to go.

Clearly humour is not your strong point.

[Scott]

Inflammatory, troll posts and replies removed.  

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Mr Normal cycles in circles.

Bill, a classic!

I don't agree with you on Brexit, but thank Buddha for comedians...

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

19 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

OK, I'm guessing this is mostly a UK poster debate that's raising these challenges to fact and I do appreciate it's been a long evening/night for many. So I'm happy to leave things there and I'll go about my business in Thailand whilst others sleep it off and I'll pick up the debate again during more sensible debating hours.

A good night's sleep, excellent idea, sleep off some anger and misconception.

Those of us from the UK, and I dare say other currently EU countries, will just sit back and consider the UK has had a referendum and a General Election.

Leaving the EU remains (sorry for the pun) the choice of the majority in a democratic country.

Happy dreams...

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 08/11/2017 at 5:30 AM, simoh1490 said:

As a group you haven't produced any statistics or economic models, all you do is tell everyone that the models and statistics produced by the remain group are wrong, that and play word games just like you're doing here! Indeed, leave has yet to be proved correct, correct about what is the mystery though! At some point you'll no doubt jump up and down and shout, I told you so, we were right, claiming that some future event was long in your master plan, the one that nobody has ever seen!

And if it goes wrong, the remoaners would not gloat?

Who are you trying to kid.

The fact we have fought hard for decades to get a referendum says enough. Neil Kinnock promised one in his manifesto in 1992 if you know anything about UK politics in the last 40 years.

He lost despite that for other reasons, but went on to become Lord (and Lady) Kinnock with highly paid cushy EU Commissioner jobs (with his wife amazingly who had never been elected to anything) and fat pensions...

 

There is an old saying that applies to the UK referendum on the CM/EEC/EU:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool ALL of the people ALL of the time." Honest Abe.

 

UK woke up and said: "Enough is enough."

Not the first time either...

 

 

[taipeir]

Brexit is the dead cat bounce of the British Empire.

Cutting remark that gets to the point.
But wheres the bounce?


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[taipeir]

Actually, the UK is already rid of that crap. Believe it or not, it's not in the eurozone. Which gave it a big advantage over the other large nations of the EU.

Yes it gives it the right to see the currency plummeted making everything and everybody cheaper and your pension and income smaller and imported goods cost more.

Well done!!

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[taipeir]

They`re getting desperate now,the UK economy is not crashing and burning like their hero Mark Carney "predicted" with his big anti Brexit crystal bol-locks.

Watch the car industry disintegrate for one.

 

Some will be absolutely screwed if tariffs and slow customs go in.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/388fe992-b7f2-11e7-bff8-f9946607a6ba

 

London will probably get through with wealth and IT and finance concentrate there but some of the region are going to be in for a very hard time.

Ironic.

 

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[taipeir]

If anything shows the general ignorance about the EU it's this: The Eurozone has enforced budget austerity ever since the financial meltdown. Unlike the USA and the UK. And not surprisingly its economic recovery badly trailed those 2 nations. As for the rest of the EU, there is no set policy because those nations aren't bound by Eurozone rules. For which they should be very grateful.

Not all the EU was the same.
Ridiculous statement about 27 countries.

Some like Germany and Scandinavia were barely hurt during the crisis. They have never been better off.

Other have picked up huge economic growth again like Poland and Ireland.

These are GOOD times for many EU members.

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[nauseus]

1 hour ago, taipeir said:

Not all the EU was the same.
Ridiculous statement about 27 countries.

Some like Germany and Scandinavia were barely hurt during the crisis. They have never been better off.

Other have picked up huge economic growth again like Poland and Ireland.

These are GOOD times for many EU members.

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Your examples are merely relative. Poland and Ireland just a bit better than most of the the EU, which has the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world. Germany and Scandinavia already previously wealthy. Huge economic growth?? Funny.   

[taipeir]

Your examples are merely relative. Poland and Ireland just a bit better than most of the the EU, which has the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world. Germany and Scandinavia already previously wealthy. Huge economic growth?? Funny.   

Wasn't it UK that has the worst growth rate?

 

Want to check your facts mate.

 

https://qz.com/1109085/eastern-europes-major-economies-are-having-an-underappreciated-goldilocks-moment/

 

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[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Your examples are merely relative. Poland and Ireland just a bit better than most of the the EU, which has the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world. Germany and Scandinavia already previously wealthy. Huge economic growth?? Funny.   

The only thing funny are your comments spun out of thin air like so much candy floss: 'the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world'. Now that deserves a prize.

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, taipeir said:

Not all the EU was the same.
Ridiculous statement about 27 countries.

Some like Germany and Scandinavia were barely hurt during the crisis. They have never been better off.

Other have picked up huge economic growth again like Poland and Ireland.

These are GOOD times for many EU members.

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Actually Poland continued to grow throughout the recession. And a big reason for that is that it's not a member of the Eurozone.  

[Kieran00001]

49 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually Poland continued to grow throughout the recession. And a big reason for that is that it's not a member of the Eurozone.  

 

Poland's GDP went from $533 billion before the recession down to $439 billion, that is not a continued growth, that is actually a recession, and their GDP has only recovered to $469 to this day, so what are you on about?

[taipeir]

Actually Poland continued to grow throughout the recession. And a big reason for that is that it's not a member of the Eurozone.  

...and yet the biggest reason BY FAR is due to being a member of the EU.

Mmebership of the eurozone wouldn't have made much difference either way.

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[ilostmypassword]

28 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Poland's GDP went from $533 billion before the recession down to $439 billion, that is not a continued growth, that is actually a recession, and their GDP has only recovered to $469 to this day, so what are you on about?

The figures you are relying are in dollars. In 2008 the zloty was valued at slightly more than 2 to the dollar. Now it's about 3.6  So they take no account of exchange rates.

https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/USD-PLN-exchange-rate-history.html

 

That said, i was wrong in that for a total of  4 various quarters after the great recession hit Europe, Poland did have mild GDP shrinkage.

https://tradingeconomics.com/poland/gdp-growth

 

Actually, I wasn't really wrong. At least not in terms of PPP (purchasing power parity) which is what matter to Polish citizens, Poland's economy did grow every year from 2006 onwards. Which is a pretty amazing achievement and definitely an argument against the EURO.

https://tradingeconomics.com/poland/gdp-per-capita-ppp

Edited November 10, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[ilostmypassword]

14 minutes ago, taipeir said:

...and yet the biggest reason BY FAR is due to being a member of the EU.

Mmebership of the eurozone wouldn't have made much difference either way.

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Really? Poland's currency devalued dramatically during the onset of the recession. An option not available to members of the Eurozone. You're honestly saying that wouldn't have made much difference? In a recession, it's good become much cheaper in relation to Eurozone nations and this doesn't make much difference?

[aright]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

In BrexiteerLand it is OK to hold the graphs upside down.

The latest pie chart after extensive Remainer research.

 

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, taipeir said:

Wasn't it UK that has the worst growth rate?

 

Want to check your facts mate.

 

https://qz.com/1109085/eastern-europes-major-economies-are-having-an-underappreciated-goldilocks-moment/

 

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You were not discussing UK growth before.  

 

The chart in your watch magazine shows cumulative GPD growth, representing an average 4% GDP growth, annually, over 10 years for Poland. The chart below is from Trading Economics and shows the actual year-by-year Polish GDP growth. By EU standards, over the last 10 years Poland has done OK but this chart shows that it has not grown by 4% a year - the average is more like 1% and that's being generous - still better then the EU, of course. Poland has been a major beneficiary from the EU budget, many of it's workers remit additional funds earned in the UK, while it has it's own even cheaper labour force from the Ukraine. It won't last.

 

Facts. Right!

 

  

Edited November 10, 2017 by nauseus

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You were not discussing UK growth before.  

 

The chart in your watch magazine shows cumulative GPD growth, representing an average 4% GDP growth, annually, over 10 years for Poland. The chart below is from Trading Economics and shows the actual year-by-year Polish GDP growth. By EU standards, over the last 10 years Poland has done OK but this chart shows that it has not grown by 4% a year - the average is more like 1% and that's being generous - still better then the EU, of course. Poland has been a major beneficiary from the EU budget, many of it's workers remit additional funds earned in the UK, while it has it's own even cheaper labour force from the UK. It won't last.

 

Facts. Right!

 

  

It's already been pointed out to you that this graph is in dollar value. As it has already been pointed out to you that the zloty was massively devalued against the dollar. And it has already been pointed out to you in terms of PPP which indicates the actual standard of living for Polish people, Poland's GDP  has grown right through the recession. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The only thing funny are your comments spun out of thin air like so much candy floss: 'the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world'. Now that deserves a prize.

Thanks. I did not want to include except Antarctica but now you have it. Airs pretty thin down there too.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It's already been pointed out to you that this graph is in dollar value. As it has already been pointed out to you that the zloty was massively devalued against the dollar. And it has already been pointed out to you in terms of PPP which indicates the actual standard of living for Polish people, Poland's GDP  has grown right through the recession. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I understand the PPP variant, but I was replying to tapir, not you, and the quote was just GDP, not any version of it.

 

People who interrupt or keep pointing merely show bad manners.

 

[ilostmypassword]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I understand the PPP variant, but I was replying to tapir, not you, and the quote was just GDP, not any version of it.

 

People who interrupt or keep pointing merely show bad manners.

 

Start your own forum if you have a problem with "interruptions."

And I have no clue what you mean by 

"and the quote was just GDP, not any version of it."

FYI there are 2 versions of GDP nominal and PPP. Since the conversation was about how well or poorly Poland fared during the general recession, clearly PPP was the relevant choice.

And remittances are not included as part of GDP

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/08/remittances-and-growth

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Start your own forum if you have a problem with "interruptions."

And I have no clue what you mean by 

"and the quote was just GDP, not any version of it."

FYI there are 2 versions of GDP nominal and PPP. Since the conversation was about how well or poorly Poland fared during the general recession, clearly PPP was the relevant choice.

And remittances are not included as part of GDP

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/08/remittances-and-growth

There are several expressions of GDP. Not just 2.

I was not replying to you when you butted in. 

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There are several expressions of GDP. Not just 2.

I was not replying to you when you butted in. 

There may well be several expressions of GDP. But clearly the relevant one here is PPP. And there is no "butting in" on an open forum. Communicate by PM if you don't want comments about what you post.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

There may well be several expressions of GDP. But clearly the relevant one here is PPP. And there is no "butting in" on an open forum. Communicate by PM if you don't want comments about what you post.

Oh, so now there are several! Clearly you did not look at the first reply, which was not to you!

 

PM yourself with your own diktats. Maybe you'll do as you say! 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Oh, so now there are several! Clearly you did not look at the first reply, which was not to you!

 

PM yourself with your own diktats. Maybe you'll do as you say! 

 

 

And how does the theoretical existence of more than 2 ways of measuring GDP affect the discussion of Poland's economic performance.

It certainly wouldn't lead me to assert something as ludicrous as this as regards Poland:

"our examples are merely relative. Poland and Ireland just a bit better than most of the the EU, which has the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world"

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And how does the theoretical existence of more than 2 ways of measuring GDP affect the discussion of Poland's economic performance.

It certainly wouldn't lead me to assert something as ludicrous as this as regards Poland:

"our examples are merely relative. Poland and Ireland just a bit better than most of the the EU, which has the worst growth rate anywhere out of the populated areas of the world"

Again, this was not to you. Poland has done relatively better. What is ludicrous about that?

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Again, this was not to you. Poland has done relatively better. What is ludicrous about that?

Because you wrote that Poland has done just a bit better.