Lifan GY200 ------> Honda CRF250L

[VocalNeal]

12 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

I have no eperience with the cheater boxes..perhaps these are just the cheap Thai equivalent?

If one has a Vespa (Allan?) one can get a thing called a Lamba Emulator which plugs in instead of the O2 sensor and fools the ECU into richening up the mixture. The cheapo Thai box does similar but it is using the air temperature, altitude etc sensors to do the same thing. Does it positively work? Don't know as my Honda is almost 25 years old and has carburetors, but it is worth 1200 baht to find out.

[Happy Grumpy]

19 hours ago, AllanB said:

Been looking at the page on these cheater boxes, could figure out what was what, can anyone supply any details in English? What precisely it is supposed to do? 

 

From their advertizing on the page (never believe Thai advertizing.) it says around 10% more fuel efficient, around 10% more power and torque.

 

 

If they are saving fuel, they might just be making it run leaner. Less fuel can actually produce more power and torque and all it does is burn out the piston and engine in general. 

 

 

So to recap, I've no idea, but interested on expereinces or knowledge from people that have gotten one.

 

The EJK is a better, safer bet. But think it is around 7 or 8k baht. Not expensive, but when the bike is 8 years old and only worth around 25k baht anyway, it's of less interest spending 25% of the bike's value on a fuel controller mod that might give it an extra 5% extra oomph. 

[AllanB]

15 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

From their advertizing on the page (never believe Thai advertizing.) it says around 10% more fuel efficient, around 10% more power and torque.

 

 

If they are saving fuel, they might just be making it run leaner. Less fuel can actually produce more power and torque and all it does is burn out the piston and engine in general. 

 

 

So to recap, I've no idea, but interested on expereinces or knowledge from people that have gotten one.

 

The EJK is a better, safer bet. But think it is around 7 or 8k baht. Not expensive, but when the bike is 8 years old and only worth around 25k baht anyway, it's of less interest spending 25% of the bike's value on a fuel controller mod that might give it an extra 5% extra oomph. 

First of all these are "best" figures, you don't get more bhp, torque and mpg at the same time. My guess is if the low down torque is improved you need less rpm and therefor better mpg.

 

At the end of the day you can make the figures do what you want. I had a Vauxhall Carlton 1.8 company car which normally did 30mpg, Crawled around The Netherlands and got 65mpg, same everything, just changed my driving style cause I was paying for the petrol.

 

That is assuming they are not lying............ not exactly VW are they?

[VocalNeal]

We are talking rideability the torque the engine produces is what it comes from the factory with. Even with EJK. I used to sell them to PCX125 guys who wanted to go faster. Did they ? No. Despite being told.

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

We are talking rideability the torque the engine produces is what it comes from the factory with. Even with EJK. I used to sell them to PCX125 guys who wanted to go faster. Did they ? No. Despite being told.

A PCX is a different animal, the rpm is optimised by the load on the CVT, that is why they are so fast despite the inefficiency of the drive itself. Essentially it is an rpm optimised torque converter, the CRF has a gearbox, so it is down to the rider to select the correct gear to maximises torque from what the engine settings have to offer. So you rev the <deleted> out of the engine, as all the decent torque is at high rpm.

 

If the engine is starved of fuel to meet emission targets, the low rpm figure will be reduced. In the old days they did all sorts of nasty things, like pumping shit back into the engines, to conform to government legislation. 

 

Now I am not saying these things work, but in theory they could.

 

[VocalNeal]

You are right. the PCX doesn't have a rich, low rpm high fuel acceleration phase as the CVT takes care of that. That is what need richening up on the CRF

[AllanB]

13 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

You are right. the PCX doesn't have a rich, low rpm high fuel acceleration phase as the CVT takes care of that. That is what need richening up on the CRF

I didn't say that. On full throttle the engine speeds up and the CVT takes that high torque/bhp and gears it down to give maximum traction. This high rpm is less noticeable as the engine is enclosed.

 

The CRF will do the same (similar) if I floor the throttle and keep it in low gear to high rpm, before I change up. But I don't want to do that.

 

The Lifan has a flatter torque curve, which appears to be higher at very low rpm, rather like the old British long strong engine did and the current RE Bullets do. That is what I would like to achieve.

 

I was out last night riding (pub quiz). On my outward journey I was a little late and gave it "some" and the engine was happy... and bloody fast. On the return journey, I thought about the errors of riding fast and rode home slowly and the engine felt, well "rough and lumpy".  

 

I friend of mine says remapping should fix that........by, as you say enriching the mixture at low rpm.

 

 

[Dutchbike]

This might do the trick

http://www.electronicjetkit.com/DirtBike/viewproduct.asp?partnumber=9110028

Benefits on a Stock Honda CRF250L:
If you plan to run the stock exhaust system on your CRF250L, installing an EJK EFI Controller is possibly the best bang-for-the-buck modification you can do. No other bolt-on aftermarket part will give you such a noticeable performance difference for the same $225. The CRF250L runs very lean with the factory fuel map... an EJK Controller will add about 5% fuel (3.5% during Green zone, 3% in yellow zone, 5% in red zone) to give the bike improved performance, more crisp throttle response, and even make the bike run cooler. Later, if you decide to add an aftermarket exhaust and/or intake, the EJK controller can be adjusted appropriately to take advantage of the new performance parts.

[CMKiwi]

And the beauty of the EJK is it doesnt need specialist tools to install.  Undo the current honda fuel controller and the EJK plugs straight in.

[VocalNeal]

^^ It is $225 to buy! Then it has to come here!  

 

I think I sold mine for 7500 Baht I can check but I don't sell them anymore, insufficient volume. Landed here was about 5500 but depends on quantity. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by VocalNeal

[VocalNeal]

2 hours ago, AllanB said:

I didn't say that.

My point was anally technical and nothing to do with CRF. Just that EJK for CVT scooters doesn't have a yellow, acceleration setting as it doesn't need high flow low rpm.

 

There is an interactive demo http://www.electronicjetkit.com/EJK-tuning.asp

 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by VocalNeal

[AllanB]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

My point was anally technical and nothing to do with CRF. Just that EJK for CVT scooters doesn't have a yellow, acceleration setting as it doesn't need high flow low rpm.

Sorry mate I don't understand, no matter........and no offence.

 

The problem with something like this is that it takes a lot of marketing, in the UK re-mapping is the number one tuning gizmo...other places too no doubt.

 

An auto scooter is probably not a good application for this product, indeed the people who buy the PCX are not that interested in "sooping" it up (IMO), .....now bikes with gears yes.

 

Before I buy on the B1200 jobbies, what could go wrong, could it damage my bike? In theory these things shouldn't be expensive, a few resistors, chip and a big of plastic and once the algorithm is written, Robert's your father's brother.

 

PS Not doing anything until the bike's well run in.

[taninthai]

Ignore my post earlier about 45 t rear sprocket,,,,,you want 42 or 43,,  can't remember whatvi got and I'm no where near my bike,,,,fuel controller not needed in my opinion.,,  others love em but they are not for meme

[taninthai]

By the way your talking Sounds like the power of the crf is just to much for you,,,  you already said when you rodecit to pub quiz you opened it up and it was fastreally sounds like you are just riding around co stantly in wrong gear at 1/4 throttle and scared to rev it,bike engines are made to rev high,I have several bikes and none of them will take off quick under 3000rpm in 3rd gear that includes 600cc bikes.

 

Honestly it's ridiculous mentioning torque and 250 cc in the same sentence,,,,i would guess 95 % of people that have these bikes on this forum are happy with them,,yes you get the comments that they are a bit heavy and lacking power but again it's a 250 so can't expect big power.definately rider issues here 

Edited November 1, 2017 by taninthai

[AllanB]

4 minutes ago, taninthai said:

By the way your talking Sounds like the power of the crf is just to much for you,,,  you already said when you rodecit to pub quiz you opened it up and it was fastreally sounds like you are just riding around co stantly in wrong gear at 1/4 throttle and scared to rev it,bike engines are made to rev high,I have several bikes and none of them will take off quick under 3000rpm in 3rd gear that includes 600cc bikes.

Not too powerful, the point is it is easy to go fast and difficult to ride slow.

 

I also have a 43bhp 400cc old Honda, but it is easy to ride it slow. The power/torque is a lot more linear.

 

 

[taninthai]

My crf easy to ride slow ,,,ever heard of slipping the clutch ,,,,,as said this is pure rider error/mistakes

[Namplik]

If you are on FB I would recommend this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CRF250L.owners.club/ and check the files section in the group. Loads of good information there. 

[AllanB]

On 01/11/2017 at 2:49 PM, taninthai said:

My crf easy to ride slow ,,,ever heard of slipping the clutch ,,,,,as said this is pure rider error/mistakes

Sorry mate this is complete cobblers. I have an 8 year old Honda Wave with similar power/cc ratio and the engine is smooth (still), the CRF engine is rougher than my Lifan.

 

Slipping the clutch is no way to use any machine, look at the meaning of the word clutch, it is a device used to shift gears, not a CVT. Indeed look at the material in a motorbike clutch, there is almost nothing there, so abusing it will mean certain disaster.

 

Maybe I have an engine problem, which was my initial thought...and fear, bearing in mind TIT.

[papa al]

Try riding a friend's CFR/

have friend ride yours 

to rule-out 

rider air error.

√ performance side-by-side.

Edited November 3, 2017 by papa al

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, papa al said:

Try riding a friend's CFR/

have friend ride yours 

to rule-out 

rider air error.

√ performance side-by-side.

Love to do that, put the bike on my truck........won't need to go far.

[MINIMIGLIA]

I was pleased to get rid of my CRF the vibrations even only 10-15 Kms was enough to give me terrible tingling/numbness in my hands, added bar ends but no better, have a Yamaha Aerox and night and day better for my use as a local runaround.

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, MINIMIGLIA said:

I was pleased to get rid of my CRF the vibrations even only 10-15 Kms was enough to give me terrible tingling/numbness in my hands, added bar ends but no better, have a Yamaha Aerox and night and day better for my use as a local runaround.

Just returned from a 40km run and the engine reminds me of my Honda Shadow V-twin, when it started running on one cylinder, due to a float chamber problem..

 

This is the 3rd new bike I have purchased this year, the Filano was smooth and did exactly what I expected, the Vespa GTS likewise, but was fun too, this is a just a real disappointment. I did a lot of reading over a long period, as soon as I bought the underpowered Lifan 2 years ago and heard nothing bad. Steph Jeavons was the one who really sold me the bike.

 

So I think I will write to Honda Thailand and see what they have to say.

 

Was yours the 2017 model with the bigger choke?

 

PS Can't find any contact email address for Honda Thailand so have started an enquiry the Honda.com

 

I hate dealing with the Japs, worst still a Japanese product I bought in Thailand. My last beef was with Seiko...that took over a year to resolve. Deny..deny..deny, then ignore.....until threatened with social media stink.

 

I had an electrical problem with the Vespa in the UK (probably due to the bike sitting unused for 5 months) within an hour they collected bike. They paid for all hotels meals, train, taxi, everything.

Edited November 3, 2017 by AllanB

[chrissables]

5 hours ago, AllanB said:

Love to do that, put the bike on my truck........won't need to go far.

Although my model is the CRF Rally, i can tell you mine ran a lot better when run in. Give it time, unless of course there is a fault, which could damage it.

[AllanB]

13 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Although my model is the CRF Rally, i can tell you mine ran a lot better when run in. Give it time, unless of course there is a fault, which could damage it.

Thanks Chris, I will give it some time, but don't see how this rough running will improve with time. I have set the wheels in motion with Honda, it will certainly take time and if it gets better to the point of being acceptable, I will stop.

 

 I really hate the attitude of these big multinational companies, especially Japanese companies where the national trait is that complaining is considered a form of treachery. Well I am not Japanese. In the UK we are protected by the consumer act and everyone knows it, in Thailand the seller is king.

[chrissables]

9 minutes ago, AllanB said:

Thanks Chris, I will give it some time, but don't see how this rough running will improve with time. I have set the wheels in motion with Honda, it will certainly take time and if it gets better to the point of being acceptable, I will stop.

 

 I really hate the attitude of these big multinational companies, especially Japanese companies where the national trait is that complaining is considered a form of treachery. Well I am not Japanese. In the UK we are protected by the consumer act and everyone knows it, in Thailand the seller is king.

I have seen a few youtube videos with people remarking how much smoother their Rally was after running in, i will have a look tomorrow and post if i can find them.

Edited November 3, 2017 by chrissables

[Happy Grumpy]

3 hours ago, AllanB said:

I hate dealing with the Japs, worst still a Japanese product I bought in Thailand. My last beef was with Seiko...that took over a year to resolve. Deny..deny..deny, then ignore.....until threatened with social media stink.

You sound like a right moaner.

 

British? 

[ktm jeff]

Allan , have you looked into the suggestions i made last week ?. The lack of torque is expected in a small engine but Honda have made it worse by fitting a larger ( commom with the CB/CBR ) throttle on these 2017 machines. This leads to fuel drop-out at lower revs due to the lower airspeeds going through the inlet manifold. This leads to poorer low speed running. Exactly what you dont want on a "dual sport" bike. I still suspect your issues are an engine / electrical fault.

[CMKiwi]

I'd be inclined to take it back to Honda and ask them to give the bike a complete check over.

 

If the dealership is worth any salt then you should get an honest report...but don't hold you breath. As has been suggested, try a friends CRF and see if there is any difference.

[canthai55]

On 11/1/2017 at 12:49 AM, taninthai said:

My crf easy to ride slow ,,,ever heard of slipping the clutch ,,,,,as said this is pure rider error/mistakes

 

17 hours ago, AllanB said:

Slipping the clutch is no way to use any machine

And there lies the rub - in technical conditions, and frequently uphill or on corner exit, the clutch is slipped all the time. Not for long, just enuf to get the rpm back where you want it.

Those with experience riding dirt bikes know this to be the case.

 

[MINIMIGLIA]

13 hours ago, AllanB said:

Just returned from a 40km run and the engine reminds me of my Honda Shadow V-twin, when it started running on one cylinder, due to a float chamber problem..

 

This is the 3rd new bike I have purchased this year, the Filano was smooth and did exactly what I expected, the Vespa GTS likewise, but was fun too, this is a just a real disappointment. I did a lot of reading over a long period, as soon as I bought the underpowered Lifan 2 years ago and heard nothing bad. Steph Jeavons was the one who really sold me the bike.

 

So I think I will write to Honda Thailand and see what they have to say.

 

Was yours the 2017 model with the bigger choke?

 

PS Can't find any contact email address for Honda Thailand so have started an enquiry the Honda.com

 

I hate dealing with the Japs, worst still a Japanese product I bought in Thailand. My last beef was with Seiko...that took over a year to resolve. Deny..deny..deny, then ignore.....until threatened with social media stink.

 

I had an electrical problem with the Vespa in the UK (probably due to the bike sitting unused for 5 months) within an hour they collected bike. They paid for all hotels meals, train, taxi, everything.

No it was one of the first ones, so bad in over 5 years I only did 2500 Kms on it.