Lifan GY200 ------> Honda CRF250L

[chrissables]

13 hours ago, AllanB said:

Thanks Chris, I will give it some time, but don't see how this rough running will improve with time. I have set the wheels in motion with Honda, it will certainly take time and if it gets better to the point of being acceptable, I will stop.

 

 I really hate the attitude of these big multinational companies, especially Japanese companies where the national trait is that complaining is considered a form of treachery. Well I am not Japanese. In the UK we are protected by the consumer act and everyone knows it, in Thailand the seller is king.

Hi Allen, take a look at this video, i know it's the Rally, but he started off moaning about the engine. The comments are in the first few minutes of the video.

 

 

[AllanB]

13 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

You sound like a right moaner.

 

British? 

Lets clear one thing up, I bought a Seiko watch in Thailand and after a couple of months one of the face markers fell off and jammed the hands. The jeweller glued them back on with superglue, this then happened 5 more times and eventually the watch leaked water.

 

I contacted Seiko Thailand, they checked the watch and said the gland around the winder was worn due to excessive use...on a battery powered watch?

 

I contacted Seiko Japan, the watch was shipped there and they agreed with this conclusion and out of the year's warranty, they would do nothing.

 

It was clear that the seal on the back was damaged due to the jeweller's repeated removal and that I was being bullshitted.

 

I bought a Casio watch in the UK, as a replacement and after a year the watch stopped, they said they didn't have any batteries and gave me a new watch. Why, because of the consumer protection act?

 

Not a moaner, I just don't take shit..... most Thais just except their fate.

 

As I have said I will give the bike time, but I am aware that these complaint processes take a long time. ...It was more than a year before Seiko finally gave me a new watch, which was shipped for the UK.

[AllanB]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

 

And there lies the rub - in technical conditions, and frequently uphill or on corner exit, the clutch is slipped all the time. Not for long, just enuf to get the rpm back where you want it.

Those with experience riding dirt bikes know this to be the case.

 

I haven't taken it off-road yet, so this isn't a riding issue. On road this is basically a CBR.

 

I rode the Lifan off-road a lot while they were building the underpass, didn't have need to slip the clutch even two up, the engine chugged away and I simply maintained momentum. That is not to say that I never slipped the clutch on an odd occasion when it was wet, or hilly, but not common practice and certainly not on road.

 

I tend to feather the throttle instead, to avoid labouring the engine.

[AllanB]

51 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Hi Allen, take a look at this video, i know it's the Rally, but he started off moaning about the engine. The comments are in the first few minutes of the video.

 

 

I hope this turns out to be the case, he talks about 300 miles, I am close that in kms already, but will give it 1000km. It is slightly better when the engine is cold and to be honest I have nowhere to go in terms of choice of bike. I do have the re-mapping option and now have a luggage system built too and the bike does look good.

 

The weather is starting to change, so trips are on the cards, that will get the mileage up.

 

As I have said, the Lifan was at all wonderful when I got it, some of it down to the poor setup, but that took some running in too and changed after about 500-700km. Just didn't expect it from Honda.

 

By the way I belong to a number of bikers forums and this easily my favourite, some good advice and trolling has almost disappeared completely, so thanks. 

[thaiguzzi]

14 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

I'd be inclined to take it back to Honda and ask them to give the bike a complete check over.

 

If the dealership is worth any salt then you should get an honest report...but don't hold you breath. As has been suggested, try a friends CRF and see if there is any difference.

And therein lies a problem. These bikes up to 300cc are sold by any moped 125 scooter dealer. You think they have trained techs and mechanics who can fault find electronics, ecu's, sensors? Shit, I bet they are not even trained to do valve shim adjustments. Cam chain adjusters (common fault) - que? Basically it would be trial by substitution - if they had the parts... More than an oil change and a quick chain adjustment is all they'd do. Then you go over 300cc to the Honda Big Wing dealers - they have the trained techs and grease monkeys - but they aint interested in Hondas below 300cc...

 Catch 22?

[thaiguzzi]

Over quarter of a million of these things sold worldwide and Allan has bought a Lemon.....

Shoulda bought an Enfield.....

[AllanB]

16 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

And therein lies a problem. These bikes up to 300cc are sold by any moped 125 scooter dealer. You think they have trained techs and mechanics who can fault find electronics, ecu's, sensors? Shit, I bet they are not even trained to do valve shim adjustments. Cam chain adjusters (common fault) - que? Basically it would be trial by substitution - if they had the parts... More than an oil change and a quick chain adjustment is all they'd do. Then you go over 300cc to the Honda Big Wing dealers - they have the trained techs and grease monkeys - but they aint interested in Hondas below 300cc...

 Catch 22?

Indeed, I took it back to the dealer, while I was collecting the number plates, booked an appointment. The top man took it for a run, declared it was fine but the clutch need adjustment...asked me to do it??

 

There is no way I am going to leave it with those guys, they will likely take it apart and leave me to reassemble it.

 

I will be honest I have found no one in Khon Kaen who has much of a clue about bikes. I use a local tyre company to service my trucks, no problems and no rip-offs at all in many years. The guy speaks good English and gets all my business and that of two of my friends.

 

I have watched and rewatched a number of Youtube videos can see much criticism of the engine. 

[Happy Grumpy]

Yup.

 

 

 

British. 

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Over quarter of a million of these things sold worldwide and Allan has bought a Lemon.....

Shoulda bought an Enfield.....

So you are assuming that the other 249,999 were all good, bit of a brave call, I'd say, not to say unlikely. Also we haven't actually established the flavour of this one yet.

[thaiguzzi]

18 hours ago, AllanB said:

So you are assuming that the other 249,999 were all good, bit of a brave call, I'd say, not to say unlikely. Also we haven't actually established the flavour of this one yet.

.... shoulda got that Enfield......

[papa al]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:13 PM, CMKiwi said:

Mesh seat covers in red, black, blue and sometimes green!  But I haven't seen the green ones for a while.

camo

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

.... shoulda got that Enfield......

Doesn't work here, sure as hell won't fit on my pickup, will need a crane to load and unload, plus they are way too expensive with no nationwide mechanical backup like in India. Plus I know the bars vibrate like a jackhammer.

 

Anyway I still have the Honda Shadow for rides from home....like an Enfield but supersmooth.

 

Getting my RE for Europe free of charge, so we shall see what is like on the road.

 

I think it is 60/40 the CRF will be okay. Going for a long run next week.

 

This thread is supposed to be an honest appraisal of both bikes, warts and all. I am not saying Jap is crap and Chinese is good, it is just the way I am finding the two bikes so far. Chinese stuff gets a bad press on this and many other forums from many. So it's what B48k buys compared to B130k.

[taninthai]

just what have you complained to honda about..

too little torque from a 18bhp engine??????

cannot pull away in 3rd gear at 2,000rpm?????

the engine makes noises?????

 

 

personally i don't think any of these things are issues with your bike or any other crf thats just how they are.....maybe try a ktm 690 if your looking for torque......

 

the other poster is right you do moan to much and possibly dissect and think about things to much

 

[AllanB]

10 hours ago, taninthai said:

just what have you complained to honda about..

too little torque from a 18bhp engine??????

cannot pull away in 3rd gear at 2,000rpm?????

the engine makes noises?????

 

 

personally i don't think any of these things are issues with your bike or any other crf thats just how they are.....maybe try a ktm 690 if your looking for torque......

 

the other poster is right you do moan to much and possibly dissect and think about things to much

 

1. The engine won't pull below 4000 rpm, unless the tacho is out.

2. The engine is just feels rough.

3. The CRF i supposed to be 26bhp.

 

I am giving an honest appraisal of my findings having gone form one bike to another. I would add that this is changing situation as the km increase.

 

If you see that a "moan" perhaps you are following the wrong thread, or maybe you are upset that I am criticising a Honda.

 

You are right that the two engines do have different characteristics, it demonstrates to me that the current rough engine issue aside, statistics like peak bhp and torque don't mean very much. These two bikes perform very differently. The Lifan has a fairly linear power/torque band, but everything bottoms out at 80kph. The CRF is not at all linear and in complete contrast, not much low down, but has a big punch in the back when the revs increase. So along with the gear pattern, I have to learn to live with this. 

 

One thing that is clear is that this bike could/can be ridden on the highway, two up the Lifan really struggles and has to stay on the hard shoulder. Even when I truck the bike to my playground, there will be some main road riding, where this power will be handy.

 

[VocalNeal]

Alan,

 

The only way to resolve this is for you to ride another CRF and see if yours is different. 

 

Dig? I ride a 2-stroke. Nothing below 4000? How about not much below 6000. But yes depends on the type of bike /porting etc. I can potter along in traffic at low rpm but nothing will happen if I wish to accelerate.

[AllanB]

27 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Alan,

 

The only way to resolve this is for you to ride another CRF and see if yours is different. 

 

Dig? I ride a 2-stroke. Nothing below 4000? How about not much below 6000. But yes depends on the type of bike /porting etc. I can potter along in traffic at low rpm but nothing will happen if I wish to accelerate.

My main beef is the rough feel of the engine, I didn't expect that after what I read. It has improved ever so slightly at now 380km, but I need to get it run in first. I have ridden two strokes too and they are very different and they sound even high revving because they are firing every cycle. anyway if the CRF needs 5,000 rpm, so be it. Also I have no tacho on the Lifan so don't know for sure what's going on, especially with the noisier exhaust.

[taninthai]

I have typed many replies to this thread ,  but keep deleting them ,,,think I will leave it at that.

[papa al]

Sheesh!

If you think it might improve with more milage,

get out and ride the damn thing.

I rode 400km today..

[ktm jeff]

3 hours ago, taninthai said:

I have typed many replies to this thread ,  but keep deleting them ,,,think I will leave it at that.

You can lead a horse to water - - - . Ive offerd advise , you havent replied. You have a faulty bike. It wasnt the best bike to buy in the first place. Next time - Kawasaki KLX. 

[CMKiwi]

Actually Jeff, I'm maybe somewhat biased but I like the CRF more.

 

I purchased mine about 4 years ago and and it was a great bike at the time. Unfortunately as happens to many folk, I outgrew it and wanted something bigger.

 

By outgrew I mean it didn't have enough ummph to push my heavier frame/body.

 

The American guy that bought it off me was well happy with it. But then I'd put quite a few mods onto it and it went a bit better/quicker than the bog standard bike.

 

I did hear the KLX was a better bike for off road between the two. But the CRF was smoother on the tarmac.

 

I'm still keeping my eyes open for an Aprilia SXV 450 or 550. Probably near impossible to find one in Thailand especially with a green book.  Price is bound to be stupidly high too.  Just the one I saw was in Chiang Mai ages ago (I'd mentioned that on another blog ages ago too)

 

I just hope Allans bike gets sorted for him. Nothing quite as annoying when you new toy doesn't live up to expectations.

[ktm jeff]

Hi CMKiwi . I dont think your biased , ive heard the CRF is as good /  better  if you ONLY ride on the road. Which confuses me why Allan would buy it. With its increased weight over the KLX ,  and non adjustable suspension , it stumbles at the first hurdle . Mods can improve it some what , but why not start out with a better / more suitable bike in the first place. I think i replied to your SXV / RXV thread before. Ive never seen one for sale in LOS , nether mind CM. Its not the lack of torque on the CRF that is a concern ( on a 22 BHP 250 , that has to be expected ) , but the rough running / lack of pull below 4,000 RPM.

[Neilly]

I'll probably regret entering this thread...but what the hell...

 

I'm now on my second CRF in five years...for what they are they are an okay compromise between a dirt bike and a road bike...not the perfect dual-sport, but okay none the less. We only have the choice of the KLX or CRF in Thailand, the KLX has better suspension out of the box and is geared better...but costs more. Spend the difference in price on a suspension upgrade for the CRF and they are just about equal.

 

Out of the box the CRF is geared way too high and won't even pull top gear...change the front sprocket to a 13t...it takes all of 15mins to do this.

 

Buzzing on the bars...change the grips to Progrip Rally - 714...and if you can run to it a set a decent ally bars

 

https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/355_358_290_295/products_id/1711

 

 

 

[AllanB]

Bit of an update. Been riding it around town and circled the Khon Kaen ring road at 80/90kph 2 up, yes the bike seems to be improving slowly, but I am still only at 590km. Some of the improvement is possibly down to me changing my riding style, a few more revs, I plan on getting some real kms on the bike with a trip somewhere, which has been held up due to family commitments.

 

The CRF certainly has some go, I accidentally did a wheelie yesterday, avoiding a blind kid at a junction and the gearbox is pretty slick too.

 

My new seat mod seems to get the comfort levels up for both of us, only a trip will tell whether the design works on a long run, but further mods are really easy and can even be done at the roadside. If I really screw it up I can just buy another 80baht piece of foam, seems to stay in place well too.

 

This was my inspiration and would get one if they had them here, but until then my 80 baht jobbie will suffice....

 

 

So I am a little more optimistic about living with the bike (don't want to tempt fate) and may eventually go for some form of engine tweek, but the very first thing to do, before any trip is get some handlebar grips. I have big hands and the current skinny grips will, I am sure lead to cramp, not an expensive mod, just have to find some here in KK. 

 

Next, I am sure I will find I need bar risers too, there are plenty around here but I want to come up and back as much as possible. Steph had some good ones but haven't seen them here. If not, maybe the UK next year? That said I sit a little further forward 2 up, so well see how it goes.

 

Need to get out on the Lifan as it hasn't been used for a while, the problem is the gear pattern, just getting used to the "1down/5up" and getting back to an "all down" is going to screw up my learning curve. "Old dog new tricks."

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, AllanB said:

but the very first thing to do, before any trip is get some handlebar grips.

 

Any local mocy accessories shop/kiosk will sell you some foam covers. Look for a long length of foam tube. (As you ave to cut them in half) They fit over the existing hard plastic grips.

 

After cutting they look like this. I use plain black ones. Have done for years. 

 

If fitting is too technical  you can spray the existing grips with hairspray from 7-Eleven but you have to be quite quick.

 

 

 

[taninthai]

Yep I forgot how bad the original grips are ,,,they are like rock hard plastic. Think that was one of the first things I changed on mine,,,in fact the bars are pretty crap mine bent first time I dropped it,,,,just change to renthals does the job,,although I’m sure the rentals I have at the moment are fake....555

 

[AllanB]

Actually I am glad I bought the L instead of the Rally, the higher Rally was just about my limit in terms of seat height. The seat cushion I made has added around an inch, bringing it close to the Rally. However, the extra seat height on the Rally is achieved with suspension, mine is down to the seat thickness, so the distance between footrests and seat is increased, giving a slightly straighter leg, which I prefer.

 

At my age not sure how I would have managed on a Rally with an extra 1" seat pad to get over. 

 

Hope I can stay supple in the coming years, it is a stretch. 

[AllanB]

A question about fuel injection. When first starting the engine, is the mixture altered regardless of the ambient temperature? Indeed is temperature actually monitored by the ECU?

 

The reason I ask is that the CRF runs really nicely from cold for the first 10 minutes or so and then begins to deteriorate. After a quick thrash (90kph) around the ring-road, the engine is at it's worst (roughest).

 

So I am starting to think this is a mixture problem.

 

My Lifan never requires any choke, expected in LOS, and runs well.

[VocalNeal]

Probably running lean to save the planet?

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Probably running lean to save the planet?

Unquestionably...I think this low "sod all" level is new for 2017...Maybe that is why earlier bikes run so well....as I have heard many times on youtube.

[VocalNeal]

Send 1200 baht to JR motor or get the wife to call ask if their CBR box is good for CFL