Well another meet up of the local expats gang , this time to celebrate a birthday , the birthday boy  told  us how he had recently attended a Thai cremation ceremony for a relative of his wife and how when his time arrived to depart this world he wants to be buried in the ground and not go up in smoke .

 

Well as the drink started flowing that comment started the ball rolling and the rest of the evening turned into a sort of mixed confessional / death anxiety / mortality / I'm trying to get my mind around it sort of free for all. 

 

Nearly every one around the table commented on how they seemed to be getting more and more preoccupied with the subject of  their own eventual demise and their inability to mentally cope with an uncertain future . 

 
 Some said that they had all ready gone down the route of trying to prepare for the inevitable by sorting things out , the last will and testament or joint bank account with loved one's . The letters to be posted and insurance to be claimed.  

 

Other plans included trying to extend life expectancy with on going diet and exercise . But some did freely admitted that in their mind they were now on the downward slope of life and they had decided to cast caution to the wind by throwing out their books on dieting and selling there home exercise equipment .  Instead they were now hell bent on enjoying their remaining time left  with a life of indulgence and personal gratification in other words . Eat , drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

 

Personally at 67 I find thinking about my own demise upsetting  . I know its coming and I know that I can't stop the grim reaper from knocking at my door . But I still try not to dwell on the subject of death to often,  and I take its reality seriously . It looks like many others in the gang have the same internal struggle to try and mentally prepare for that day when we finally pop our cloggs and bid  farewell to all earthly things .  I just have my fingers crossed that I leave this world quickly without pain or suffering  and not end up a dribbling dementia case . Like many of us sat around the table I personally do not have the comfort of a  religious faith to calm or help me overcome my fears.

So now I'm wondering what others here think on the subject .  You have done all the family legal stuff and necessary paper work and you are trying to stay healthy with diet and exercise but that little voice inside your head  keeps reminding you.  The sands of time are running out .   

 

So how are you mentally preparing your self , how are you mentally coming to terms with your own inevitable demise and what if any advice can you offer to other's .

 

What are you doing to try and put you mind at ease .  Or have you like some gang members cast caution to the wind and decided to just throw in the towel and take your chance by ditching a healthy life style in favor of unchecked consumption and indulging unsafe practices   for the remaining time you have left .

 

Are you looking towards your religious faith to help you mentally prepare for the final step in your life .

 

Or could it be that you are possibly in the same frame of mind as one gang member who recently had his sixty eighth birthday and from his agitated comments he seemed unwilling to come to terms with or accept that he like most of us sitting around the table were in our final twilight years , he seemed to be in some sort of  bury your head in the sand and denial frame of mind.
 

 

 

 

--

 

 

 

 

What stupid title.

 

speak to Thai missus on this sort of thing, and she starts ranting that she wants me to stop putting $$$ into Life Insurance and Super;

(when you're dead, you're dead)

 

and wants to pull it all out ( shows her level of understanding...)

 

 - wants to spend it all as it cannot be taken with her  (falang thinking that missus again cares not for hubby and survivors around her, in case she goes first)

I have a fair mix of indulgence and not... I do try and enjoy every day and not take things too seriously. And yet, as you at 67, I wonder not only how many years, but how many "good" years might I have left... 77 in ten years does not sound like much fun, but 67 ten years ago would not have sounded like much fun either...

 

I love being in Thailand as for me, it is not boring. I find it quite easy to enjoy myself here. And be helpful to family and friends. 

 

Both of my parents lived until 91 and had the last few years marinating in dementia. That remains my most prominent lasting image of them and I would never want to impose that on my family and have them have that image as the final memories... That, I don't know how to avoid. 

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

I have a fair mix of indulgence and not... I do try and enjoy every day and not take things too seriously. And yet, as you at 67, I wonder not only how many years, but how many "good" years might I have left... 77 in ten years does not sound like much fun, but 67 ten years ago would not have sounded like much fun either...

 

I love being in Thailand as for me, it is not boring. I find it quite easy to enjoy myself here. And be helpful to family and friends. 

 

Both of my parents lived until 91 and had the last few years marinating in dementia. That remains my most prominent lasting image of them and I would never want to impose that on my family and have them have that image as the final memories... That, I don't know how to avoid. 

The balance between indulgences and over doing it is some thing that other members of the gang mentioned several times , like why not just burn the candle at both ends and cram in as much as you can for the remainder of the time you have left , why worry if you drink to much or constantly smoke and why not even take risks that you never even thought about before this curse of getting old struck . 

Like you I constantly think to my self , may be I have another ten years left , or even longer . But should I be still around in say 20 years time what will I be able to do or could I be sitting in an arm chair struck down with dementia waiting for incontinence to set in . I would hate to think that my family would be counting down the days to my departure so they can get on with their lives . 
 

1 hour ago, tifino said:

 

speak to Thai missus on this sort of thing, and she starts ranting that she wants me to stop putting $$$ into Life Insurance and Super;

(when you're dead, you're dead)

 

and wants to pull it all out ( shows her level of understanding...)

 

 - wants to spend it all as it cannot be taken with her  (falang thinking that missus again cares not for hubby and survivors around her, in case she goes first)

Ive spoken to my Thai wife a few times about the subject of whats going to happen if I'm not around any more , its obvious that in her mind she is a firm believer in  reincarnation and there's nothing to worry about as in your next life things will be even better than your present life .

 

Convincing my self that may be true is an up hill struggle 

Yesterday i had a lengthy conversation with a friend who is in a problematic personal situation which is not to be solved as it looks. He also has severe heartproblems which restricts him alot in life. He told me that occasionally it all is too much for him dealing with all these issues and that he often thinks enough is enough. 

 

The only thing which keeps him going is, HOPE. He is thus not ready to die but on the other hand he does not worry about it.

Being dead is going to be great but I will hang around a while yet. The second part is longer than the first.

1 hour ago, Once Bitten said:

The balance between indulgences and over doing it is some thing that other members of the gang mentioned several times , like why not just burn the candle at both ends and cram in as much as you can for the remainder of the time you have left , why worry if you drink to much or constantly smoke and why not even take risks that you never even thought about before this curse of getting old struck . 

Like you I constantly think to my self , may be I have another ten years left , or even longer . But should I be still around in say 20 years time what will I be able to do or could I be sitting in an arm chair struck down with dementia waiting for incontinence to set in . I would hate to think that my family would be counting down the days to my departure so they can get on with their lives . 
 

Some self knowledge helps quite a bit... what is it that will really give you joy might surprise as well as what might not... as everything, approach such decisions w/a good dose of thought and evaluation. I was never much of a drinker but have learned that on occasion, I can enjoy a drink or two. I will get sleepy before drunk. Overdoing it and getting drunk and sick would have more negative consequence for me... but what I get great joy from might not be as much fun for someone else. 

 

On the other hand, I don't really like to exercise but being in better condition will surely be a benefit as years go by... 

 

I know sugar is bad for me, but when I am having an energy-less day, a shot of sugary something will turn around my energy and my mood and enjoyment of the day... 

A Difficult subject at best. 

First mistake was marrying someone younger than me

.My wife is a lovely person (we do have our moments) we depend on each other a lot.

The thought that one day I will leave her alone disturbs me greatly. My daughter is a much stronger person and will be fine, but I worry about my wife. I wish we were closer in age and getting to that stage in life together.

 If I had to do it again I would marry someone closer to my age. It was a very selfish thing to do in my part.

 When I retire in two years I will be taking a reduced pension so that she also gets to keep it for life . Also I have bought a house in Florida on her name, She owns her parents home (was signed over to her when Dad died and we are now taking care of Mom) and we are in the process of building another house that will be finished in a couple of months in Thailand  ,  also I made sure she became a US citizen and send her to school so she has her a cosmetology and nail tech licence so if things get rough in Thailand she can always return to the US and work. so I think she will be ok  but who knows.

  But , nonetheless the thought of leaving her disturbs me greatly and I need to find a way to come to terms with it. 

once you get that thought in your mind hard to get it out.

I will be 61 in June   both parents died mid 80s

 

41 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Some self knowledge helps quite a bit... what is it that will really give you joy might surprise as well as what might not... as everything, approach such decisions w/a good dose of thought and evaluation. I was never much of a drinker but have learned that on occasion, I can enjoy a drink or two. I will get sleepy before drunk. Overdoing it and getting drunk and sick would have more negative consequence for me... but what I get great joy from might not be as much fun for someone else. 

 

On the other hand, I don't really like to exercise but being in better condition will surely be a benefit as years go by... 

 

I know sugar is bad for me, but when I am having an energy-less day, a shot of sugary something will turn around my energy and my mood and enjoyment of the day... 

The knowing just what gives me joy has slowly changed over the years to a point in time now where I seem to be more happy and contented with the simple things that life has to offer .Gone is the burning desire to constantly be  wanting to acquiring more stuff , be it property cars or expensive designer gear .

 

 When a friend telephones or emails me and asks how are you doing , my stock and true answer is now ,  I'm fine and just glad to wake up in the morning . I know this may sound a bit of a cliché but when I walk out side and feel the sun on my face and see a clear blue sky it brings home the reality of ,  any day now that feeling of happiness could be gone in a flash .

 

 As for drinking like you I'm not or ever been a heavy drinker . But in my past pre Thailand days I did have a routine of enjoying a good bottle of red wine with my evening meal , it became some thing I look forward to after a hard days work. Fast forward to now and I still love red wine and on occasion  have a glass or three with an evening meal , but afterwards strangely I some times now  have a guilty feeling.

 

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, sirineou said:

A Difficult subject at best. 

First mistake was marrying someone younger than me

.My wife is a lovely person (we do have our moments) we depend on each other a lot.

The thought that one day I will leave her alone disturbs me greatly. My daughter is a much stronger person and will be fine, but I worry about my wife. I wish we were closer in age and getting to that stage in life together.

 If I had to do it again I would marry someone closer to my age. It was a very selfish thing to do in my part.

 When I retire in two years I will be taking a reduced pension so that she also gets to keep it for life . Also I have bought a house in Florida on her name, She owns her parents home (was signed over to her when Dad died and we are now taking care of Mom) and we are in the process of building another house that will be finished in a couple of months in Thailand  ,  also I made sure she became a US citizen and send her to school so she has her a cosmetology and nail tech licence so if things get rough in Thailand she can always return to the US and work. so I think she will be ok  but who knows.

  But , nonetheless the thought of leaving her disturbs me greatly and I need to find a way to come to terms with it. 

once you get that thought in your mind hard to get it out.

I will be 61 in June   both parents died mid 80s

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts , I was concerned that this subject may have been some what distressing to some people . I just hope that's not the case and its a subject that can be openly discussed.

 

Your comment about marrying some one closer to your age is an interesting one , and not really some thing that Ive ever thought about . But your other observation about trying to remove from your mind certain thoughts certainly rings a bell with me , and as for being 61 in June I wish I was 61 again  

 

 

 

I told my wife I want to be cremated, she said you'll have to wait till tomorrow as they are all closed at the moment?

2 hours ago, Once Bitten said:

Ive spoken to my Thai wife a few times about the subject of whats going to happen if I'm not around any more , its obvious that in her mind she is a firm believer in  reincarnation and there's nothing to worry about as in your next life things will be even better than your present life .

 

Convincing my self that may be true is an up hill struggle 

 

Odd, isn't it, that ALL Thais believe that the next life is going to be better than this one.

 

 

What if it isn't ?

 

 

I think I shall continue to invest in this current life and enjoy it as much as I can.

 

I also don't get the sensitivity of it all; I have not yet anyone who is immortal. An inability to accept the inevitable can lead to a lack of planning and a bugger's muddle, for those we love,  to have to sort out when we are gone.

 

As far as Thailand is concerned it probably doesn't matter what your wishes are as the Thais will dispose of you in accordance with their beliefs - and what is expected of them by others.

 

Land is a scarce resource, it should not be taken up with rotting bones.

 

 

 

Then again, I own a crematorium so I may have a slight bias.

1. Why worry about death? Did you worry about birth? I doubt it, so don't worry about being dead.

2. Lingering death i.e. stroke. Very nasty. Make sure a trusted relative or friend will provide a final cocktail if you are  unable to consume it yourself.

3. Fear of dependents being left in financial difficulties. If you're unable to assist your wife  after your demise, then encourage her to marry again, even recommend a relative or friend if necessary. Most Thais have extended families and can work things out.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Once Bitten said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts , I was concerned that this subject may have been some what distressing to some people . I just hope that's not the case and its a subject that can be openly discussed.

 

Your comment about marrying some one closer to your age is an interesting one , and not really some thing that Ive ever thought about . But your other observation about trying to remove from your mind certain thoughts certainly rings a bell with me , and as for being 61 in June I wish I was 61 again  

 

 

 

The only distress I have about the subject concerns my loved ones and what will happen to them without me. I guess I am a bit of a control freak, and perhaps have a somewhat elevated sense of self importance. 

 Also I would not want to personally suffer at the end  (who does) my dad had a stroke and it was not good for him the last few months.

As far as death is concerned , It is my belief that no one ever dies , at least not for long.  

Consider the following. All the elements in the Universe  combine to create different forms and at some point decompose to give up its elements back to the mix so that can recombine into different forms .

Nothing new is created or destroyed simply recombined.

  Of all the possible different  forms and possibilities , this time they have combined to make you, in this possibility.   

You and your situation is highly improbable but since it, and you exists possible. The probability of you and it is astronomically high but not infinite, given enough time it will occur again . It is inevitable.

Though after you die time continues, from your perspective  time stops since time is simply the measurement of the sequence that things occur and for you  nothing more is occurring.

So for you, the next improbable possibility would seem instantaneous.

Does this make any sense.?

 It does to me , but that's not saying much LOL

 

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

A Difficult subject at best. 

First mistake was marrying someone younger than me

.My wife is a lovely person (we do have our moments) we depend on each other a lot.

The thought that one day I will leave her alone disturbs me greatly. My daughter is a much stronger person and will be fine, but I worry about my wife. I wish we were closer in age and getting to that stage in life together.

 If I had to do it again I would marry someone closer to my age. It was a very selfish thing to do in my part.

 When I retire in two years I will be taking a reduced pension so that she also gets to keep it for life . Also I have bought a house in Florida on her name, She owns her parents home (was signed over to her when Dad died and we are now taking care of Mom) and we are in the process of building another house that will be finished in a couple of months in Thailand  ,  also I made sure she became a US citizen and send her to school so she has her a cosmetology and nail tech licence so if things get rough in Thailand she can always return to the US and work. so I think she will be ok  but who knows.

  But , nonetheless the thought of leaving her disturbs me greatly and I need to find a way to come to terms with it. 

once you get that thought in your mind hard to get it out.

I will be 61 in June   both parents died mid 80s

 

 

I have never yet met a Thai widow (and I have met a few) who has not coped admirably after the demise of their Farang partner.

 

It is certainly partly to do with their Buddhist beliefs. Even where a widow has been badly provided for they still seem to get on with whatever life has dealt them. I have seen many more who have been well taken care of - many move on with their lives and take care of their money (often more than they had when their husband/partner was alive). Some squander what comes on gambling etc - or fall into the clutches of money-grabbing relatives.

 

I am pleased to be 20 years older than my missus. That balances up the selfishness, that sirineou referred to, with the ability to ensure that she is adequately provided for. I shall be delighted if she takes what I leave her with and goes on and fully enjoys the rest of her life, knowing that she is financially secure. 

Here is my take on the subject.
Once you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. Just as you don't know that you are alive when you sleep. What did you know about yourself before you were born?

No, I don't think that I will be interrogated by a "god" or a "devil" after my demise. Just an eternal sleep, an eternal unconciouseness.

It's more the "dying-process" that really pre-occupies most of us. Will it be quick and painless or lenghty and agonizing?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: AS far as Gen-Tech is concerned: Science has made breathtaking "progress". We know why we get old and eventually die. Give it 20 years and it will be possible to "fix the problem".

- This will create the problem of all problems: Only very rich people will be able to buy eternal life, the rest will keep on dying. (Resembling the situation in the 60ties: Rich people could afford to pay for an abortion in the Netherlands (legal there), but illegal in most other countries.)

 Not such an upbeat subject, we should be talking more about "Wine, Woman and song". Especially since at the end of a males life, "song" might be the only thing left.
Cheers.

1 minute ago, swissie said:

Here is my take on the subject.
Once you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. Just as you don't know that you are alive when you sleep. What did you know about yourself before you were born?

No, I don't think that I will be interrogated by a "god" or a "devil" after my demise. Just an eternal sleep, an eternal unconciouseness.

It's more the "dying-process" that really pre-occupies most of us. Will it be quick and painless or lenghty and agonizing?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: AS far as Gen-Tech is concerned: Science has made breathtaking "progress". We know why we get old and eventually die. Give it 20 years and it will be possible to "fix the problem".

- This will create the problem of all problems: Only very rich people will be able to buy eternal life, the rest will keep on dying. (Resembling the situation in the 60ties: Rich people could afford to pay for an abortion in the Netherlands (legal there), but illegal in most other countries.)

 Not such an upbeat subject, we should be talking more about "Wine, Woman and song". Especially since at the end of a males life, "song" might be the only thing left.
Cheers.

 

 

 

 

We are all dying from the day we are born.

 

 

How long it takes, and what we do with that time is what makes each of us different.

 

 

Agree..... wine, women and song feature in there quite prominently.....

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

A Difficult subject at best. 

First mistake was marrying someone younger than me

.My wife is a lovely person (we do have our moments) we depend on each other a lot.

The thought that one day I will leave her alone disturbs me greatly. My daughter is a much stronger person and will be fine, but I worry about my wife. I wish we were closer in age and getting to that stage in life together.

 If I had to do it again I would marry someone closer to my age. It was a very selfish thing to do in my part.

 When I retire in two years I will be taking a reduced pension so that she also gets to keep it for life . Also I have bought a house in Florida on her name, She owns her parents home (was signed over to her when Dad died and we are now taking care of Mom) and we are in the process of building another house that will be finished in a couple of months in Thailand  ,  also I made sure she became a US citizen and send her to school so she has her a cosmetology and nail tech licence so if things get rough in Thailand she can always return to the US and work. so I think she will be ok  but who knows.

  But , nonetheless the thought of leaving her disturbs me greatly and I need to find a way to come to terms with it. 

once you get that thought in your mind hard to get it out.

I will be 61 in June   both parents died mid 80s

 

I had these same conversations with a local monk many years ago and not just about my wife but my entire family. His response was simple and correct. 

 

He said they got along without you before you came and they will get along after you go... 

 

It is a comfort to know that I will have left them better off than before I was here... that's all you can do and sounds like you are doing it. 

I'm more than 10 yrs younger than you OP .......      but if I keep drinking the way I do I'll be lucky to see next year    !          

that reminds me ...     gotta head down to 7-11 for a few more bottles  .

I hope to reach 80 to ensure my son's education is finished after that I will go with good grace thankful for the opportunity of life.

At the rate I am going will live forever....after that it will just be a long nap.....lol.....??

Reading Once Bitten's two letters made me sad.  A positive attitude is essential.  I am not recommending gay abandon, but I refuse to dwell on the subject of death or even the possibility, though at nearly 80 many of my younger friends and colleagues have passed away already.  I know that I am lucky in that I work full time in Anti-aging Medicine (AAM), but I work at it, and still travel the world, drive, fly as a pilot in helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, dive  ( to 24 metres), ski,

parachute, para ascend, swim and join in every activity I can.  At medical conferences now,  the maxim is that

'aging is a disease, not an inevitability'  though of course we all have to die sometime.  Prof. Aubrey de Grey,  a world leading Anti-aging specialist and Prof at Cambridge Univ. , has said that the most difficult period to overcome in AAM, is 

the 120-150 year mark.  There are lots of children alive already, who will reach 120, if they take advantage of the new advances coming out every 5 years in the field of AAM .  As Pan Am used to claim,  ' Life is a journey - Travel it well !'

Well, everyone dies sooner or later. 

So I make the most of life while I am here. I am single, live alone near Pattaya, and I am 82. I am semi-prepared with Will & some letters but probably not enough. Fortunately, I still have no aches or pains and am prepping for a cruise from Singapore next month. 

Of course, like so many, I fear dementia and being kept alive by Thai Doctors, nothing could be worse. So I am looking for that goodbye pill but have not found it yet. Hmmm, maybe in Cambodia or Lao?

 

But so far, for an old geezer, I feel OK. I guess that I am one of the lucky ones, as I do not fear death. As long as I go quickly.....

All that exists is this present moment. In this Now you are alive. Deal with that fully. The future doesn't exist.

I just want to watch the final season of Game of Thrones. After that..., well Death is just a new adventure.

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

A Difficult subject at best. 

First mistake was marrying someone younger than me

.My wife is a lovely person (we do have our moments) we depend on each other a lot.

The thought that one day I will leave her alone disturbs me greatly. My daughter is a much stronger person and will be fine, but I worry about my wife. I wish we were closer in age and getting to that stage in life together.

 If I had to do it again I would marry someone closer to my age. It was a very selfish thing to do in my part.

 When I retire in two years I will be taking a reduced pension so that she also gets to keep it for life . Also I have bought a house in Florida on her name, She owns her parents home (was signed over to her when Dad died and we are now taking care of Mom) and we are in the process of building another house that will be finished in a couple of months in Thailand  ,  also I made sure she became a US citizen and send her to school so she has her a cosmetology and nail tech licence so if things get rough in Thailand she can always return to the US and work. so I think she will be ok  but who knows.

  But , nonetheless the thought of leaving her disturbs me greatly and I need to find a way to come to terms with it. 

once you get that thought in your mind hard to get it out.

I will be 61 in June   both parents died mid 80s

 

It looks like you're going to be worrying for a good 20 years more (going by your parents' age). Alternatively you stop worrying, accept reality, and enjoy those 20 plus years, and possibly a lot more!

12 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

As far as Thailand is concerned it probably doesn't matter what your wishes are as the Thais will dispose of you in accordance with their beliefs - and what is expected of them by others.

 

 

For sure, you'll be cremated if you haven't specified otherwise in a will. You can specify burial in your will, but I imagine you'd have to organise this in advance with a specific church or organisation. There are plenty of Chinese cemeteries in Thailand, but I've never seen a Christian one. 

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

The only distress I have about the subject concerns my loved ones and what will happen to them without me. I guess I am a bit of a control freak, and perhaps have a somewhat elevated sense of self importance. 

 Also I would not want to personally suffer at the end  (who does) my dad had a stroke and it was not good for him the last few months.

As far as death is concerned , It is my belief that no one ever dies , at least not for long.  

Consider the following. All the elements in the Universe  combine to create different forms and at some point decompose to give up its elements back to the mix so that can recombine into different forms .

Nothing new is created or destroyed simply recombined.

  Of all the possible different  forms and possibilities , this time they have combined to make you, in this possibility.   

You and your situation is highly improbable but since it, and you exists possible. The probability of you and it is astronomically high but not infinite, given enough time it will occur again . It is inevitable.

Though after you die time continues, from your perspective  time stops since time is simply the measurement of the sequence that things occur and for you  nothing more is occurring.

So for you, the next improbable possibility would seem instantaneous.

Does this make any sense.?

 It does to me , but that's not saying much LOL

 

The worrying about loved ones and their future is some thing that I hope Ive  covered by making provisions for in the form of legal paperwork .

 

Your elements in the universe theory is one I'm going to have to work on