British PM May faces pressure to soften Brexit divorce after EU exit deal crumbles

[ilostmypassword]

50 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No, it's a simple statement of fact that the border is open for Libyan migrants arriving on boats. And no, the people smugglers don't turn themselves in to be arrested. Why would they? That's one of the advantages of getting "rescue ships" out.

What you're saying and what FreddieRoyle said are 2 different things. Take it up with him.

[dunroaming]

The result of this Brexit is hugely important for the UK and it's future.  We are all participating in backing one side or another and the rhetoric from both sides is unprecedented.  Whatever the outcome I suspect that blame will be placed firmly at the door of the political parties and their roles in this embarrassing fiasco.

 

I say blame because I really cannot see a positive result for either side.  If May has to back down and stay inside the single market and the customs union then that will inevitably mean accepting the free movement of people and being to some extent still abiding by EU rules.  In other words we will have paid the full financial commitment to the EU but will have no seat at the table.

 

On the other hand if May decides to accept the Irish approach with some sort of regulatory alignment for Northern Ireland then she will lose the support of the DUP and the government could face a collapse. Scotland, Wales and the city of London have already said they would demand special deals too. Or if she takes the untenable position of walking away then the economic costs would be devastating.  That would definitely trigger a general election and open the door for Labour.  Makes you shudder!

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, dunroaming said:

The result of this Brexit is hugely important for the UK and it's future.  We are all participating in backing one side or another and the rhetoric from both sides is unprecedented.  Whatever the outcome I suspect that blame will be placed firmly at the door of the political parties and their roles in this embarrassing fiasco.

 

I say blame because I really cannot see a positive result for either side.  If May has to back down and stay inside the single market and the customs union then that will inevitably mean accepting the free movement of people and being to some extent still abiding by EU rules.  In other words we will have paid the full financial commitment to the EU but will have no seat at the table.

 

On the other hand if May decides to accept the Irish approach with some sort of regulatory alignment for Northern Ireland then she will lose the support of the DUP and the government could face a collapse. Scotland, Wales and the city of London have already said they would demand special deals too. Or if she takes the untenable position of walking away then the economic costs would be devastating.  That would definitely trigger a general election and open the door for Labour.  Makes you shudder!

The thought of an adequately funded NHS..horrors!

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

The thought of an adequately funded NHS..horrors!

No, the thought of Corbyn trying to govern over an economic nightmare.  I have no problem with a Labour government but not headed by Corbyn and not when they have to battle a virtually crippled economy.  An adequately funded NHS and schools would be at the top of my agenda but the funds have to be available.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

No, the thought of Corbyn trying to govern over an economic nightmare.  I have no problem with a Labour government but not headed by Corbyn and not when they have to battle a virtually crippled economy.  An adequately funded NHS and schools would be at the top of my agenda but the funds have to be available.

How far would reversing the tax cuts the Tories gave to the wealthiest in the UK go?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Hyperbolic hyperbole. Every boat? So the smugglers notify the authorities and happily turn themselves in to be arrested? No southern border in the EU? If that were the case, then there would be a ferry service from Libya to Italy. Which would be great news for the passengers since the cost would be much lower.

A ferry service is pretty much what it is.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, nauseus said:

A ferry service is pretty much what it is.

If that were the case, why the high cost of transport?

[brewsterbudgen]

No, the thought of Corbyn trying to govern over an economic nightmare.  I have no problem with a Labour government but not headed by Corbyn and not when they have to battle a virtually crippled economy.  An adequately funded NHS and schools would be at the top of my agenda but the funds have to be available.

I've got my doubts about Corbyn too, but a Labour government under any leader is preferable to what we have now. If they can stop or at least soften the huge Brexit mistake too, that would be a bonus!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

How far would reversing the tax cuts the Tories gave to the wealthiest in the UK go?

My comments about opening the door to Labour were specifically by a general election that was caused by UK economy collapsing because May chose to walk away from the EU. Hence the shuddering bit.

 

I think a debate on the rights or wrongs of political parties should be held at a different time and then I suspect you and I would have more than a little in common.

[steve187]

9 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The great thing about democracy is that the people can change their mind! The tide against a self-destructive hard Brexit looks unstoppable - followed by a General Election and a 3rd referendum.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

why  leave it at 3, lets go for yearly

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If that were the case, why the high cost of transport?

Because it is a business. Most of the migrants start their journeys far from Libya. The EU taxi service makes it easier, even more profitable and just encourages more of this illegal business. 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, dunroaming said:

My comments about opening the door to Labour were specifically by a general election that was caused by UK economy collapsing because May chose to walk away from the EU. Hence the shuddering bit.

 

I think a debate on the rights or wrongs of political parties should be held at a different time and then I suspect you and I would have more than a little in common.

I see. At any rate, I don't think that Brexit should result in a collapse or anything like it. Paul Krugman vehemently disagreed with those who predicted that the vote for brexit would precipitate an immediate crash in the UK economy.  If Brexit is handled competently, he thinks that it will certainly result in reduced growth, but not be a calamity.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Because it is a business. Most of the migrants start their journeys far from Libya. The EU taxi service makes it easier, even more profitable and just encourages more of this illegal business. 

So all businesses charge high rates? It's the cost of doing business that makes those rates so high. And the chief cost is avoiding law enforcement.

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I've got my doubts about Corbyn too, but a Labour government under any leader is preferable to what we have now. If they can stop or at least soften the huge Brexit mistake too, that would be a bonus!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think a drunken man with a three legged dog could do better than this shower.

 

It has now been admitted by Davis that they never actually did an impact assessment on Brexit at all.  When will all these lies stop!

[nauseus]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

So all businesses charge high rates? It's the cost of doing business that makes those rates so high. And the chief cost is avoiding law enforcement.

In this case the business is a criminal monopoly - they just charge the maximum that they think people will pay.

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I see. At any rate, I don't think that Brexit should result in a collapse or anything like it. Paul Krugman vehemently disagreed with those who predicted that the vote for brexit would precipitate an immediate crash in the UK economy.  If Brexit is handled competently, he thinks that it will certainly result in reduced growth, but not be a calamity.

With respect, again my comment on an economic disaster was specifically if May walked away from the EU with no deal at all.  A negotiated deal (whatever that turns out to be) is  another matter! 

Edited December 6, 2017 by dunroaming

[Khun Han]

41 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What you're saying and what FreddieRoyle said are 2 different things. Take it up with him.

 

No, my first sentence is what Freddie is saying. The rest is a repudiation of the nonsense deflection you attempted.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think a drunken man with a three legged dog could do better than this shower.

 

It has now been admitted by Davis that they never actually did an impact assessment on Brexit at all.  When will all these lies stop!

Any economic impact assessment should have been done and published before the referendum. Cameron's fault.

 

Davis's job was to negotiate the exit, which was always going to be difficult, especially after a 41 year association with the EU,

 

The bombardments of lies since the announcement of the referendum have come from both sides, certainly not least from remain.

 

 

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think a drunken man with a three legged dog could do better than this shower.

 

It has now been admitted by Davis that they never actually did an impact assessment on Brexit at all.  When will all these lies stop!

 

What lies? Davis made it clear when the assessments were asked for that they didn't exist as such.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Get Real said:

Ahh! Mr. Wise Guy. As you might be aware of, there is a widespread part of the population on planet earth that dont have english as a native tounge.
And there you post just got totally worthless. Good job! 

Quite possibly he's a Little Englander and isn't aware of that.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Quite possibly he's a Little Englander and isn't aware of that.

 

Nah, just someone who chortles at people making themselves look like idiots as they attempt to label others as such .

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No, my first sentence is what Freddie is saying. The rest is a repudiation of the nonsense deflection you attempted.

 

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No, my first sentence is what Freddie is saying. The rest is a repudiation of the nonsense deflection you attempted.

Here is what he wrote:

"Can somebody pls explain the logic of having no southern border in the EU, and yet they seem to need a border between the 2 parts of Ireland? Ships set sail from Italy scooping up every boat leaving Libya - I believe the people smugglers notify the so called "rescue ships" who race along and pick them up turning the occupants lose in Italy, that is even worse than a no southern border scenario. I just can't understand the logic at play. Anybody?"

It is not a fact that there is no southern border. It may not be adequately policed but lots of immigrants do get stopped. In addition, you and freddieroyle seem unaware of the fact that Libya barely has a government so it's ability to patrol its side of the border is extremely limited.

 

And as for this "I believe the people smugglers notify the so called "rescue ships" who race along and pick them up turning the occupants lose in Italy," do youreally want to defend that?

 

 

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Any economic impact assessment should have been done and published before the referendum. Cameron's fault.

 

Davis's job was to negotiate the exit, which was always going to be difficult, especially after a 41 year association with the EU,

 

The bombardments of lies since the announcement of the referendum have come from both sides, certainly not least from remain.

 

 

Amazing response .  

 

Let's start by blaming Cameron who was never asked to produce an impact assessment.  Davis was not only instructed to but also to make the results available to the house.  Davis then said that the assessment was nearly complete.  Then he said that the assessment was being released but with some areas blacked out because they could jeopardise the negotiations.  Now he is saying that they haven't done it at all.  Those are the lies I referred to!

 

If you think that Davis doing a good job then good for you. 

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Here is what he wrote:

"Can somebody pls explain the logic of having no southern border in the EU, and yet they seem to need a border between the 2 parts of Ireland? Ships set sail from Italy scooping up every boat leaving Libya - I believe the people smugglers notify the so called "rescue ships" who race along and pick them up turning the occupants lose in Italy, that is even worse than a no southern border scenario. I just can't understand the logic at play. Anybody?"

It is not a fact that there is no southern border. It may not be adequately policed but lots of immigrants do get stopped. In addition, you and freddieroyle seem unaware of the fact that Libya barely has a government so it's ability to patrol its side of the border is extremely limited.

 

And as for this "I believe the people smugglers notify the so called "rescue ships" who race along and pick them up turning the occupants lose in Italy," do youreally want to defend that?

 

 

 

Your pedantry is mind-boggling at times. Is the intention to bore people to death, or are you really so nit-pickingly obsessive?

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Amazing response .  

 

Let's start by blaming Cameron who was never asked to produce an impact assessment.  Davis was not only instructed to but also to make the results available to the house.  Davis then said that the assessment was nearly complete.  Then he said that the assessment was being released but with some areas blacked out because they could jeopardise the negotiations.  Now he is saying that they haven't done it at all.  Those are the lies I referred to!

 

If you think that Davis doing a good job then good for you. 

 

Davies said that various assessments were spread out in various formats in various reports.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

Amazing response .  

 

Let's start by blaming Cameron who was never asked to produce an impact assessment.  Davis was not only instructed to but also to make the results available to the house.  Davis then said that the assessment was nearly complete.  Then he said that the assessment was being released but with some areas blacked out because they could jeopardise the negotiations.  Now he is saying that they haven't done it at all.  Those are the lies I referred to!

 

If you think that Davis doing a good job then good for you. 

Not amazing, just truthful.

 

Leavers keep complaining that people did not understand the consequences of what they were voting for. From the economic aspect then Cameron should have had an assessment done AND had plans in place for staying in and getting out before the referendum, that he called. These things were Cameron's responsibility but he never thought there would be a vote to leave.

 

I can't say how good a job Davis has done. We don't get enough detail to be able to say. I just knew it would be a hard and thankless job trying to untangle the UK from the rats nest of EU politics and regulation. So much for the good old idea of a simple "common market".

[AlexRich]

10 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

I don't think that Brexit Reversal is officially policy(although judging by May and co's performance you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise). If it were then yes you would be correct. The important thing is that a hard Brexit is delivered and promptly, the whining of the remainer crowd is way beyond a joke. We either have democracy or we don't. If we decide that we don't need democracy, polls etc and just decide by whichever crowd moans the loudest you will have a civil war. That would be foolish.

Or, just have a vote on the deal negotiated. At least people would be voting on the facts rather than, as it turned out, false assumptions. That would be real democracy ... and put the matter to bed once and for all.

[AlexRich]

9 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Not exactly true, but after the next poll which happens because liberals were not pleased with the Brexit result, you will find a terrible thing will happen. Pro Brexiteers will take to the streets claiming that the winners of the vote(if they don't lose twice!!) did not understand what they were voting for, that lies were told, that another referendum is needed, and it will all get very hostile because while in the past differences were settled by way of referenda, in the post liberal world referendums are worthless because if liberals don't like the result they won't accept it and so it goes.

 Am I the only one that thinks the Brexit vote was the end of the discussion. We won. Its time for a good hard Brexit and take control of our trade, our laws and our immigration, using policies to benefit Brits not the 3rd world or European elitists. I can't see how we are even arguing over this. We won, the delays are a travesty of justice. End of.

You won the right to jump over a cliff like a lemming ... congratulations. I’d just rather you didn’t take everybody with you ... democracy does indeed include the right to change your mind, as witnessed by the various parties that have governed over the years. The Brexiteers seem to believe that once an opinion poll on a given day has been taken everybody has to change their view and get behind it. 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Ah, got it! 'Clever' people are absolved from using spell checkers. Or maybe they're too clever to use them?

 

Anyway, I couldn't help noticing that, over the last couple of days, Project Fear's 'useful idiots' have been all over the internet, en masse, posting furiously in ever-more shrill and hysterical ways. Couldn't be because there is a strong possibility that the brexit deal they didn't wan't to happen will happen in the next week, could it?

... as opposed to a useless idiot?

[Get Real]

28 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nah, just someone who chortles at people making themselves look like idiots as they attempt to label others as such .

So you made it again! Looking like an idiot, that will say!