stop feeding street dogs

[wildewillie89]

36 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I think you are misinformed...how do they compete?

How does the photo illustrate either competition or bins

What point are you trying to make.

I've stated that the waste disposal system is unsatisfactory and allows large dog populations to thrive....you come back with nonsense about competition and no bins.

I'm aware of the responsibility hierarchy for domesticrefuse collectionandnoneofit fits into comments which appear to be based on a misunderstanding of what goes on.

I also don't understand how you think this connects to the dog population...I have stated how I consider it relevant in respect of the accepted assertion that without reducing the food supply you can never reduce the dog population

http://www.thaigov.go.th/news/contents/details/1779

(On a side note, where does your information come from?)

The last paragraph discusses a competition. In terms of the relevant official, they get government awards which help lead to cross department jobs, but also selected by their municipality committee to receive multiple pay rises over the year. In terms of the municipality, if win then they have continual study trips from municipalities around the country. Which leads to resorts, hotels, restaurants being used, increase in economy, re-election of Mayor. Government implemented the competition in an attempt to drive the policy. 

What has it got to do with the dog population? Garbage will continue to be openly available to dogs. The very thing that you apparently are an expert on as to what will solve the dog problem. The direction the ministry wants to go is to limit garbage, and the way they want to do it is to limit bins (leaving garbage open to dogs) - as the photo demonstrated. Your very solution was based on the need for bins. So if the country has decided it doesn't want to go down that path, then the solution is redundant. So a new solution must be thought of to control the dog population. 

I thought that was the point of a discussion. Finding out what ways will work, what ways will not work, and what ways are troubled by other variables (social, politics, religion, etc). From memory you criticised other potential ways to fix the problem, why do you go all hissy when someone says your way will not work?

Edited February 22, 2018 by wildewillie89

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Probably depends a lot on where people live as to how concerning it is for them. I live in a village and I have never stepped in dog shit as usually the dogs do it in the grass (away from cars/people's walk ways). Not to mention it decomposes quicker than back home as the food Thai dogs consume rarely includes actual meat, and also due to the warm climate. 

Buffalo and cow shit is all over the roads as they don't move for cars and causes already non-skilled drivers to swerve at high speeds. 

Obviously a different part of LOS than the village I lived in. Never saw a cow on the road and there were no buffalo. They locked their dogs up at night too.

[wildewillie89]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obviously a different part of LOS than the village I lived in. Never saw a cow on the road and there were no buffalo. They locked their dogs up at night too.

Sounds a nice village. I think cow time is an actual law from memory. Where locals are allowed to walk their cows and buffalo on the roads legally at certain times of the day. But yeah, definitely depends on location. Where we are is technically still considered Meuang, but just far enough out to get countryside - so includes cow time.

[humbug]

i will never stop feeding dogs and giving water, but thanks for the naff thread on how to be control freaks

 

its no surprise to see a few on this thread blame the voiceless when they have not got the balls to face the Thais all around them treating this land like  trash.

 

Oh yeah the rats, you mean like the billions of rats living in sewers and buildings where humans defecate . When is the last time one of you brave souls went up to Thai who just chucked their trash out on the street and told them to pick it up and put it into the bin? Or wait a minute how many of you brave souls told the the taxi drivers to stop peeing on the pavement and find a petrol station urinal.. 

 

yep not one of you

[ross163103]

I think all the combined excrement the soi dogs in Pattaya put on the streets is still less than this thread has in it.

[Neeranam]

Only someone with no respect for their lives would ride a bicycle here every day for years.

 

Leave the dogs alone and respect the people who fed them.

[opalred]

respect for ones life am  75 ride a bike 12 km every morning past 14 yrs 

have my beer every afternoon same for over 50yrs

  but i don't sit on my ass at a street bar

breathing in all the powdered dog shit in the air  is that respect for ones life

[mogandave]

respect for ones life am  75 ride a bike 12 km every morning past 14 yrs 
have my beer every afternoon same for over 50yrs
  but i don't sit on my ass at a street bar
breathing in all the powdered dog shit in the air  is that respect for ones life

How many times have you been bitten?

Why not carry a stick and wear a dust mask?

Sorry about your sore throat.

[joeyg]

22 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Stepping in poop is the least of your problems.....

Decomposition of dog poop........

A soi dog will poop about 250 to 300 lbs of crap every year.
It takes about a year for dog shit to decompose completely.... but pathogens may remain in the ground around it.
Dogs are omnivores, meaning they eat animal and plant material. If your dog primarily consumes meat, his feces take longer to decompose than that of a canine eating food filled with grains.
Dog poop can take a year or more to decompose.  It can even mummify in a landfill, especially if it is in non degradable plastic bags used for poop-scooping.
Dodshit isn't a fertiliser... as dog poop is higher in protein compared to cattle pat, it is quite acidic and will damage any vegetation it is left to rot on.....
You can compost dog poo; it takes about 2 months but it is possible that the pathogens from a dogs diet may still persist so the resulting compost is not recommended for use with food, fruit and vegetable production..........  Fine for flower beds etc. so long as kids don't play in it.

One gram of dog waste can contain as many as 23 million fecal coliform bacteria , this seeps into ground water and into local wells and water supplies, spreading such diseases as salmonella and giardia.
Chopping it up (e.g. grass cutting) or spreading it around only exacerbates the problem and of course allows it to be trasferredunseenon people's feet or shoes...and into houses.
In a tropical climate storms and flooding can deposit a film of dog shit over everything...it is left there after the water recedes. It also enters the domestic water supplies.
Dogpoop in the States has the same status as toxic chemicals; it is regarded as a dangerous pollutant.
 Dog poop can contain hookworms, ringworms, tapeworms and Salmonella. Long after the poop itself is no longer visible such things as parasite eggs can linger on in the soil and vefetation....This could be for over a year. Kids playing outside are particularly vulnerable from hand to mouth contamination.

Wow someone who has really done their homework!!!  Good job.  I'm curious to see how many will argue with you?

[Airbagwill]

16 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

At least I understand how different provinces could be competing to provide numbers to satisfy their environmental targets.
 

 

So please explain how you think that works - it doesn't of course but maybe you finally have a theory pertinent to the topic?

[Airbagwill]

The dog population in Thailand is decided by the amount of food available.

The food comes from 2 main sources

1 - Garbage

2 - People feeding dogs.

 

Feeding dogs

Feeding dogs is misguided on various levels.

Firstly the “humanitarian level and secondly of the perpetuation of  a dog population as a nuisance.

Feeding a dog may prolong its existence but there is no guarantee it benefits the dog long term

Most Soi dogs suffer from disease and injury that in the end reduces their ability to feed and they will eventually be excluded from the pack and starve to death.

If you are going to “feed” a dg you really need either to do nothing or fully commit to that animal. You need to take the dog to a vet. It needs to be neutered...this helps the dog in that it puts an end to continual pregnancies in bitches and prevents males from inseminating females. (It is usually too late to prevent aggressive male behavior).

The animal then needs a through medical check up for worms and other parasites - in particular ticks. Then YOU NEED TO KEEP THE DOG for life. Continual care both nutritional and medical.

It’s no good thinking you are helping by sticking out a bowl of rice - all it does is prolong suffering and attract other  - potentially more aggressive dogs.

 

 

Garbage - I’ll post separate argument about garbage as there are some highly erroneous theories being bandied about on that topic.

The fact is that the way garbage is handled in Thailand - from home to dump - means that it is readily available as a food supply for dogs and as such supports a huge roaming dog population.

 

[joeyg]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Only someone with no respect for their lives would ride a bicycle here every day for years.

 

Leave the dogs alone and respect the people who fed them.

First I confess sometimes I used to feed the dogs in Samut Prakan but don't anymore now that I'm down in  Bang Lamung.

 

I see these maniacs riding bikes in the road around Pattaya, with their headphones on smiling and grooving on the music.  it's bewildering to me.  Seems like a death wish.  Each time to cross the road, Second Road, Naklua Road, Beach road, Sukumvit etc. you're taking your life in your hands.

 

Can't imagine coasting on a bicycle with earphones on.  Is it just me.  Or is this insanity.

[ravip]

The stray dog menace is a huge problem in many developing nations.

Not only the Governments are responsible, but the general public too.

Very strict rules are necessary to combat this issue!

[mogandave]

Yes, what we need are more rules and laws. That’ll work....


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[wildewillie89]

Thought the common theme of this forum was people moved to Thailand to get away from their 'nanny state'. 

[mogandave]

Thought the common theme of this forum was people moved to Thailand to get away from their 'nanny state'. 

No, many are here to save Thailand from the “inferior” Thais.

[ravip]

11 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Thought the common theme of this forum was people moved to Thailand to get away from their 'nanny state'. 

But still need to condemn Thailand to it's core.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, humbug said:

i will never stop feeding dogs and giving water, but thanks for the naff thread on how to be control freaks

 

its no surprise to see a few on this thread blame the voiceless when they have not got the balls to face the Thais all around them treating this land like  trash.

 

Oh yeah the rats, you mean like the billions of rats living in sewers and buildings where humans defecate . When is the last time one of you brave souls went up to Thai who just chucked their trash out on the street and told them to pick it up and put it into the bin? Or wait a minute how many of you brave souls told the the taxi drivers to stop peeing on the pavement and find a petrol station urinal.. 

 

yep not one of you

It's not our country so I don't see how it's up to us to change Thais.

The dogs threaten us with injury, so discussing how to protect ourselves is entirely a relevant topic.

[joeyg]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Thought the common theme of this forum was people moved to Thailand to get away from their 'nanny state'. 

Don't recall seeing "ANY" member say that.  Got a couple references.  I thought it was mostly guys who couldn't get a decent "piece" where they came from.

[canuckamuck]

i will never stop feeding dogs and giving water, but thanks for the naff thread on how to be control freaks
 
its no surprise to see a few on this thread blame the voiceless when they have not got the balls to face the Thais all around them treating this land like  trash.
 
Oh yeah the rats, you mean like the billions of rats living in sewers and buildings where humans defecate . When is the last time one of you brave souls went up to Thai who just chucked their trash out on the street and told them to pick it up and put it into the bin? Or wait a minute how many of you brave souls told the the taxi drivers to stop peeing on the pavement and find a petrol station urinal.. 
 
yep not one of you

Just because you won't confront a citizen in his country. Doesn't mean you should join in on there their irresponsible behavior.

How many puppies have died sad little deaths because you and your ilk have propagated their numbers. Do you hear their last whimpers as you close your eyes to sleep?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jak2002003]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Only someone with no respect for their lives would ride a bicycle here every day for years.

 

Leave the dogs alone and respect the people who fed them.

Some people can't drive

Some people can't afford a car.

Some people want to get healthy exercise

Some people have the cycling as a hobby

Some people care about the environment and don't want to pollute it with car emissions.

Some people want to cycle for pleasure to see the beautiful scenery and relax.

Some people know its a waste of money and energy to drive to a place very close to their home rather than cycling or walking.  

 

Dogs are run down, injured and killed by cars.  If you cared about dogs not getting into accidents or killed you would tell people to cycle and not drive a car.

 

Leave the cyclists alone and respect the people who use bicycles... keep your  dogs under proper control.. and that includes any you feed on the street. 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

Some people can't drive
Some people can't afford a car.
Some people want to get healthy exercise
Some people have the cycling as a hobby
Some people care about the environment and don't want to pollute it with car emissions.
Some people want to cycle for pleasure to see the beautiful scenery and relax.
Some people know its a waste of money and energy to drive to a place very close to their home rather than cycling or walking.  
 
Dogs are run down, injured and killed by cars.  If you cared about dogs not getting into accidents or killed you would tell people to cycle and not drive a car.
 
Leave the cyclists alone and respect the people who use bicycles... keep your  dogs under proper control.. and that includes any you feed on the street. 
 
 
 

How about let’s leave the cyclists and the dogs alone.

You don’t like them so you want them eradicated. No one here has advocated the eradication of cyclists.

Why not grow a pair and kill the dogs that bother you? Why do you want someone else to do your killing for you?

[Airbagwill]

“On the incinerator, it is probably also due to the fierce competition the ministry sets between municipalities. They are awarded for the least amount of garbage tonnage they can achieve.

Edited Wednesday at 04:31 PM by wildewillie89”

 

Oh dear - you have presented a single government publicity article about a competition to find “Thailand’s tidiest Village” and believe this is the way that garbage is dealt with in Thailand.

The article is basically about a campaign to publicize waste disposal on a village level -  to create public awareness through the  3Rs: “Reduce Reuse Recycle”.

 

As for the “removal of bins” - I would like to know which “minister” or “ministry” wildewillie thinks is responsible for this. I would have thought it is far more likely that the company that owns the bins has removed them, probably the result of losing a contract. Refuse collection is seldom done by the municipality directly, especially with commercial premises, it is almost all contracted out.

 

 

When it comes to feeding dogs with garbage it is necessary to understand the situation with regards to waste disposal in Thailand - in short it is a mess.

It is organic waste - food etc. that the dogs require the garbage that affects dog populations come from 2 main sources - domestic waste and commercial i.e. - Restaurants eateries, supermarkets and food production and processing

 

Food related waste represents between 40% and 50% of total waste products.

 

Thailand’s waste management can be classified into three levels, which are the National, Provincial, and Local levels.  The roles in waste management are organized by the Royal Thai Government, which is then divided among the central government, regional governments, and local governments.

There is little or no guidance in HOW local authorities dispose of garbage as it is contracted out to private companies who even own the waste disposal sites and provide the labour, trucks bins etc. These contractors go for the lowest possible price; they are cheap, but offer unsafe and illegal services, with the waste often left in open dumps, in inappropriate mixes were dogs can get easy access. Domestic industrial organic and toxic waste are often dumped together in an open dump. Fires are often reported as well as pollution of local air, land and water

 

As far as I can ascertain, here is no government policy to remove bins.

 

There is a massive amount of corruption and graft involved in this. Between 80 and 90 % of Thailand’s domestic waste is disposed of illegally or improperly.

In this system in particular, landfill lacks proper controls, legislation and enforcement. Bribery and corruption are rife. This is causing a potentially disastrous build up on all fronts.....health pollution and of course dogs.

“Overlapping Jurisdictions. Because there are so many governmental bodies involved in regulating the waste industry, there is often confusion about the proper jurisdiction. Agencies are concerned about stepping on each other’s toes and take offense if they think fellow regulators are interfering with their legal jurisdiction. Provinces and municipalities have their own agendas and often encourage companies to send waste to municipal dumps in an attempt to placate local interests, regardless of the legality of the decision. The uncertainty of who should be involved in decision-making and enforcement efforts interferes with the application of the law .” - “.... This interference by local officials is typically motivated
by a wish to benefit local substandard “open dumping” operations that are sponsored by the same local officials.” Thailand_Waste_Management_Basics__What_Every_Company_Should_Know.pdf

 

The Junta has also chipped in

General Prayut Chan-O-Cha has vowed to tackle the kingdom's garbage problems.

"Can people throw away garbage in outer space?" he asked in a typically enigmatic weekly television address to the nation on August 8 2017,

"They cannot.. they have to throw it away in Thailand."

 

 

So no - there seems to be no “ministerial “policy to remove bins, and no there is no “fierce competition” between local authorities....unless  the local councilors happen to own a dump.

 

In the meantime the garbage mounts up and the digs can dine out......not without risk of course, much of the food they eat from either source is either inappropriate or contaminated.....so think when you lay out that plastic bag of rice - is the rice actually doing the dog any good and what happens to an airborne bag full of dog saliva and rotten food?

[StreetCowboy]

I reckon you should pay for what you want more of....

 

If you want more stray dogs, feed them.  If you want less, don't.

Same as beggars.

[metisdead]

Some more inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[jak2002003]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

How about let’s leave the cyclists and the dogs alone.

You don’t like them so you want them eradicated. No one here has advocated the eradication of cyclists.

Why not grow a pair and kill the dogs that bother you? Why do you want someone else to do your killing for you?
 

 

I was replying to Neeranam, who posted that people should basically stop using bicycles and use cars because cyclists get bitten... and its they own fault as Neeranam seems to think that cyclists don't value their lives if they use a bike, and cyclists are just a bother for the poor street dogs!

 

But, I was not surprised to get a comment form you... because you seem to keep commenting on every poster with annoying and argumentative comments, as others have already commented to you.  

 

As for you last question... it's animal cruelty and against the law for members of the public to go about killing dogs.  I am surprised you did not know that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, joeyg said:

First I confess sometimes I used to feed the dogs in Samut Prakan but don't anymore now that I'm down in  Bang Lamung.

 

I see these maniacs riding bikes in the road around Pattaya, with their headphones on smiling and grooving on the music.  it's bewildering to me.  Seems like a death wish.  Each time to cross the road, Second Road, Naklua Road, Beach road, Sukumvit etc. you're taking your life in your hands.

 

Can't imagine coasting on a bicycle with earphones on.  Is it just me.  Or is this insanity.

Ignorance I think more than insanity.

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Some people can't drive

Some people can't afford a car.

Some people want to get healthy exercise

Some people have the cycling as a hobby

Some people care about the environment and don't want to pollute it with car emissions.

Some people want to cycle for pleasure to see the beautiful scenery and relax.

Some people know its a waste of money and energy to drive to a place very close to their home rather than cycling or walking.  

 

Dogs are run down, injured and killed by cars.  If you cared about dogs not getting into accidents or killed you would tell people to cycle and not drive a car.

 

Leave the cyclists alone and respect the people who use bicycles... keep your  dogs under proper control.. and that includes any you feed on the street. 

 

 

 

I understand the benefits of cycles in developed countries. But not in Thailand, it's suicide, esp if you go on main roads. II've only ever used out motor bike a few times, short distances.

If you can't afford a car, get a taxi or bus.

[opalred]

in oz the govt give  you on farms poison meat baits to put around 

to kill the dingos wild dogs and cats

maybe the need a program here

[mogandave]

I was replying to Neeranam, who posted that people should basically stop using bicycles and use cars because cyclists get bitten... and its they own fault as Neeranam seems to think that cyclists don't value their lives if they use a bike, and cyclists are just a bother for the poor street dogs!
 
But, I was not surprised to get a comment form you... because you seem to keep commenting on every poster with annoying and argumentative comments, as others have already commented to you.  
 
As for you last question... it's animal cruelty and against the law for members of the public to go about killing dogs.  I am surprised you did not know that.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Any number of things are against the law, what of it?

Hey, why not make it against the law for dogs to chase push-bikers and crap in the street?

Problem solved!


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