Unlicensed and Underaged Motorcycle riders in Schools

[thhMan]

Interesting read from people.

Some of the things I have gotten from this are...
Even we are complacent and believe that it is the way it is, because it is Thailand.

The other thing I got was a perception that we are trying to westernize the issue.

 

The latter, I dont understand as it has nothing to do with westernizing the issue... Its Thai Law, it is a Law that the Thai leaders have put in place and has nothing to do with some of us wanting to westernize things.

 

I keep hoping that the next generation of kids will impart some logic in their kids, but unfortunately, the damage has already been done and it makes it very hard to predict how generations will change over the years when nothing is really being done to get the ball rolling with each generation that comes and goes.

 

I appreciate people replying and sending me links to petitions on this exact subject as it does concern me greatly, as I have 2 kids that WILL NOT be riding bikes without the proper training and proper safety gear and licences, but more concerned with the peer pressure that may come about to hop on the bike with one of their friends... And as much as Dad has taught them, kids will be kids and peer pressure is a strong influence... Its sad that some of us do everything we can for our kids and accident will happen due to others inactions.. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by thhMan

[chickenslegs]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

So yes train the young, yes, insist on helmets, yes, but let us not lose sight of the fact that the majority two wheel travelers who die on Thai roads are not underage school kids.

Also, if I may add, very many  of those fatalities are caused by the drivers of the 4-wheel + vehicles.

 

I cringe when I see cars and trucks passing m/c's with (literally) mm to spare, or driving just a couple of metres behind the back wheel of a scooter at high speeds, just to try and cut a minute or two off their journey time.

 

This is just one of the reasons I decided to quit my m/c, after more than 40 years in the saddle.

 

Some facts, right or wrong: We are in Thailand. Youngsters ride m/c and scooters here. Adults take their kids and babies with them. Many don't wear helmets. Some ride in opposition to the traffic. Etcetera. It is not going to change quickly.

 

I think we (car and truck drivers) just need to accept those facts and drive responsibly. If I was to wipe out a family on a m/c it would be no comfort to me that the father of those babies was at fault, nor that I have insurance to pay for the funerals.

 

Of course, teenage boy m/c riders are in the highest risk group. Not much we can do about that.

 

 

[473geo]

I agree peer pressure will be our main concern for our son, and pressure to race, and speed. My thought was to get him an old bike to run on the farm land a bit to get him used to handling it. My wife is not wanting this to happen, she is obviously aware of the potential for recklessness!!

[inThailand]

Driver education is not a fun topic that's why it is not taught. Candy crush is taught daily though. 

[soalbundy]

I asked a policeman once why they don't do anything against kids riding motorbikes to school, his answer, "how else can they get to school"? Pragmatically unconcerned.

[StevieAus]

I think the OP has the wrong end of the stick here and whilst it is the responsibility of the school to enforce rules at school and the police on the roads, which we all know doesn’t happen the initial responsibility lies with the parents.

Where we live north of Chiang Mai I have actually see parents teaching their children 10 and 11 years olds to ride motor cycles and then they allow them to drive around with their younger siblings on the back.

On the weekends in particular it is common to see underage children of both sexes driving at high speed along the main highway into town.

I am just amazed that more are not killed.

So before you start worrying about the responsibility of the schools sort out the parents and good luck in the process.

[StevieAus]

5 hours ago, thhMan said:

Interesting read from people.

Some of the things I have gotten from this are...
Even we are complacent and believe that it is the way it is, because it is Thailand.

The other thing I got was a perception that we are trying to westernize the issue.

 

The latter, I dont understand as it has nothing to do with westernizing the issue... Its Thai Law, it is a Law that the Thai leaders have put in place and has nothing to do with some of us wanting to westernize things.

 

I keep hoping that the next generation of kids will impart some logic in their kids, but unfortunately, the damage has already been done and it makes it very hard to predict how generations will change over the years when nothing is really being done to get the ball rolling with each generation that comes and goes.

 

I appreciate people replying and sending me links to petitions on this exact subject as it does concern me greatly, as I have 2 kids that WILL NOT be riding bikes without the proper training and proper safety gear and licences, but more concerned with the peer pressure that may come about to hop on the bike with one of their friends... And as much as Dad has taught them, kids will be kids and peer pressure is a strong influence... Its sad that some of us do everything we can for our kids and accident will happen due to others inactions.. 

I don’t think Thai Law allows underage and unlicensed children to drive motorcycles it’s the parents and lack of enforcement by the police.

However like you if I am still around when my daughter reaches the age she will not be riding a motorcycle

Fortunately my wife learned to drive and obtained her licence in Australia and spent enough years there to see what happens in another society.

She is more determined and adamant than me.

[LukKrueng]

7 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

No excuse for letting kids drive without helmets just completely negligent and thailand should be ashamed about this. No proper training for kids on the road. Same again. Shameful 

True, no excuse. But THIS IS THAILAND. Part of the package deal!

Most people that moved from their native countries to live here did so because there where things they didn't like in their original place of residency. They chose to move away instead of trying to change those things yet they are trying to "fix" what they see as wrong in their host country.

[kannot]

13 hours ago, thailand49 said:

I don't believe there is any study regarding the questions being ask because in able to do a study you must actually see and understand the problem which no department, no individual or leaders in Thailand does.

I written to the government years ago before they even became #1 in the world never heard anything some said I would be arrested etc.. but I'm still here.

The problem noted I consider from my experience working along with the Transportation Department in the States, that this allowances for kids to come and go from school is the actual FACTORY OF DEATH to their problems! You ask adults who came from the same factory to obtain license but allow kids because I heard the government "  the kids got to get to school to get their education "  they learn and copy from their parents and peer all the wrong habits and these wrong habits are label " this is Thailand " that are killing their greatest resource. By the time they actually have to get one it is nothing but a obstacle  nothing changes thereafter, their habit are embedded in them. They take these habits from a motorbike to a car, or commercial vehicle. Then the government talks a good talk but lack the will and resources to make the changes!

Driving 101.. Monkey see Monkey Do! 

It starts on their bicycles too, they learn at an early age to drive on the wrong side and take  junction the wrong way, progress to motorbike then to cars them to buses and finally Trucks..............the results  clear to see.

[BEVUP]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think the point BEVUP was getting at is a valid one: When the numbers of untrained and inexperienced riders on the road increase so will the accident rate, this rate will of course be elevated further when youth is added to the mix...  unfortunately many of the accidents this demographic are involved in can be avoided with education, training, experience and of course, age.

 

In the awful case of the nurse on her bike who was innocent and the car driver careless (brake failure my hat)... many an experienced rider in Thailand would remove themselves from the potential line of fire by stopping at the side of the road when first at the lights. Of course, this will not stop accidents caused by careless drivers. 

 

All accidents cannot be prevented, but it would not be foolish to consider that many lives can be saved with the application of a little common sense and a healthy level of law enforcement. 

 

Separating cars and motorcycles is a good idea... but motorcyclists will still hit motorcyclists and the younger they are, the more inexperienced they are the more likely this is to occur. 

 

And to draw on your point of the 'Typical Western attitude' that its a little late to consider that they [victims] should not have been there when they are flattened or in a ditch... well, given an adequate response to these incidents (education & enforcement) they may well have not been there, driving the wrong way down the road at night without lights etc (just one of many examples).... in many cases, quite rightly, the accident would not have happened if they were not breaking the law.... Tragic, but its no less true and by no means would it suggest that anyone would not try to avoid an accident at all costs just because 'they shouldn't be there'....  

 

 

 

Thanks for the support

I know this is Thailand & the people don't have much choice

When I drive I tell the wife the driving the car is not that difficult. it's everything around you that you have to check ALL THE TIME & then still having to predict

It's the ones in the cars that just maintain their speed & if happen to clip you or ect that worries me (especially in narrow Sois ), & just think OH I or HE hit each other

[Happy Grumpy]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I asked a policeman once why they don't do anything against kids riding motorbikes to school, his answer, "how else can they get to school"?

You hear the same nonsense from moron farangs that ride around with their kids on a scooter.

 

Laziness, sh!t parentage, and stupidity rolled into one.

 

 

[irwinfc]

no local gives a FF. sadly, not the end of the story. more deaths to come.

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, 473geo said:

I agree peer pressure will be our main concern for our son, and pressure to race, and speed. My thought was to get him an old bike to run on the farm land a bit to get him used to handling it. My wife is not wanting this to happen, she is obviously aware of the potential for recklessness!!

Yes, peer pressure is a big thing, when I take my son to school on the bike I make sure he has his helmet on, he doesn't like it because the other boys take the mikey

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Yes, there are many bad things going on here but also many good things (I belive you  must think there are good things here, otherwise why did you come to live here?), but all in all when someone choose to move to a country other then his native place, he should understand that it is a package deal with parts he likes and parts he might not.

Yes but death or serious accident caused by abject stupidity and by continuously breaking the law, should not be a consideration in any county, esp one supposedly striving to be considered as a 'developing" (and I use that word cautiously) country

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, kannot said:

It starts on their bicycles too, they learn at an early age to drive on the wrong side and take  junction the wrong way, progress to motorbike then to cars them to buses and finally Trucks..............the results  clear to see.

I could have used the bicycles but many Thais in general can't even afford them and when they do mostly just in their own small neighborhood. Until recently you rarely see people (adults) riding since they hate the sun?  I have done a annual ride solely in the past from Pattaya to Bangkok, if lucky I might see 1 rider. 

I also didn't use the bicycle because learning to ride one is no better in the States for example.  The difference we know if you really get out of hand it can cost you the chance of getting stop is greater here bicycle, motorbike, car, etc  it is slim and none and when it is slim and none you get what you get..

[DUNROAMIN]

On ‎25‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 6:02 AM, Dexlowe said:

OP, what is distressing as much as anything else is that by failing to teach the kids right from wrong, they (parents, teachers, police, governments) are reinforcing the belief that they can grow up and do whatever they like, with little or no consequences. Thousands of times I have witnessed Thai relatives, friends, colleagues, neighbours etc involved in behaviour that in most countries is regarded as anti-social or just plain wrong, yet they have zero, nil, nada sense of shame or regret about it - and that's because they aren't, from the day they are born, taught to reflect* upon their actions.

 

*Reflect as in understand, or a consequence of reprimand or punishment.

SPOT ON, Not to mention some of the blame goes to their religion, have a read about Buddhism.

[DUNROAMIN]

I've seen it all. Nothing will change here in Thailand in my life time. Basically, take care of yourself and your family and enjoy what time you have left on this planet. In your own country you may have been able to take part in change, however, in Thailand forget it.

[geordiel]

On 3/25/2018 at 6:00 PM, Happy Grumpy said:

They already have 4 years of driving a car to school under their belt at that stage.

 

 

Good God ! I have a son 8 nearly 9.  Able to drive a car ?  You got to be joking. 

[Cake Monster]

You know what is the most disturbing aspect of this aledged  9 Y O driving to School. ?

 

Somebody was in the rear seat of the car and made the video showing her driving the car., and that person is a member of the Forum here and therefore presumably an adult.

 

Very disturbing indeed.

[Dexlowe]

8 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

You know what is the most disturbing aspect of this aledged  9 Y O driving to School. ?

 

Somebody was in the rear seat of the car and made the video showing her driving the car., and that person is a member of the Forum here and therefore presumably an adult.

 

Very disturbing indeed.

IIRC, the vid was shot by the girl's father so that he could proudly boast on Facebook about how great his kid was. After an uproar, the police threatened to track him down and charge him. Probably didn't, though. But don't think for one minute that this kind of behavior is unusual in Thailand -- I've seen several instances myself of little kids steering cars in heavy traffic while seated on a parent's lap. 

[richard_smith237]

On 3/26/2018 at 12:15 AM, 473geo said:

I think posters are looking to blame youth, and the fact that there are many motorcycle accidents in Thailand is not due to an increase in young riders, as much as an increase in the quantity of motor vehicles traveling at speed!

What about the U turn accidents that are so prevalent? age? no just a piss poor way of turning traffic rather than making a bridge turn.

Ask yourself why motorcycles travel against the flow, again poor traffic systems and the risk of being undone by red light flyers.

I do not think youth is a common denominator in terms of the legality of dead drivers, I think speed, alcohol, drugs,road systems, and yes ok to a lesser extent training.

I can tell you this, my daughter is more capable of getting herself to school on a motorsi than riding with me!!

 

So yes train the young, yes, insist on helmets, yes, but let us not lose sight of the fact that the majority two wheel travelers who die on Thai roads are not underage school kids.

 

 

Our opinions on the safety of untrained youth riding bikes clearly differs which makes for interesting debate. 

 

What say you if there were the same numbers of motorcyclists on today's roads, but none were under 20 years of age?... Would the accident rate of motorcyclists be the same, less or more?

 

Given the example above, if there exist same numbers of motorcyclists on today's roads with none of them younger than 20, I believe the accident and death rate would be reduced by a notable percentage. 

 

This, of course, is of concern, especially in a society which does not appear to recognize the issue at large - that children are dying unnecessarily because they have been issued the freedom to ride bikes, without training, without licenses, and without enforcement.

 

I would be inclined to agree legally underage motorcyclists and not the primary demographic leading motorcycle road accidents and deaths... but what is? I'd suggest intoxicated males... (but don't know). 

 

 

[xylophone]

On 26/03/2018 at 12:15 AM, 473geo said:

What about the U turn accidents that are so prevalent? age? no just a piss poor way of turning traffic rather than making a bridge turn.

Ask yourself why motorcycles travel against the flow, again poor traffic systems and the risk of being undone by red light flyers.

I do not think youth is a common denominator in terms of the legality of dead drivers, I think speed, alcohol, drugs,road systems, and yes ok to a lesser extent training.

Taking part of this quote first, and I agree that it "U-turns" are a piss poor way of turning traffic, but the reason this is done is because the general public here is too dumb to know how to use a proper roundabout.

 

The same reason could be given as to why motorbikes travel the wrong way up roads and dual carriageways and also decide to shoot through red lights and, and.............so on.

 

So many things come in to this, beginning with the fact that the children see their parents doing it and they copy and the parents do nothing to put that right, so it becomes the norm and that becomes something which is passed on to the next generation.

 

Absolutely no road training or anything like that is given at school or anywhere else come to that; kids drive three or four up on motorbikes, without helmets; traffic rules and laws are not enforced because of a laissez-faire attitude (lazy BIB, if you like) and so many are driving without licences as to be unbelievable. Anyway, if you wanted one you can easily buy one for a few hundred baht, so any idiot can get behind the wheel of a car or drive a motorbike in any way they please, usually dangerously.

 

No single thing will change the horrific road deaths here and even if much of the above were implemented/corrected, then you still have the Thai way of thinking about death which probably renders most of that written above useless...........you are destined to die on a predetermined day/date/time and in a predetermined way, and if your time has come, then so be it and nothing you can do will stop it.

 

Unfortunate if you are involved in an accident which absolutely has nothing to do with you even though you are completely in the right.

 

[bheard]

Used to have a neighbor in my moo bahn with very good English skills, who had a stunningly beautiful daughter - of 14.  He bought her a brand new motorbike to drive to school about 5 miles away.  I asked him one day why he didn't love his daughter.  He looked at me as if I had suddenly sprouted a 3rd and and said: "What's the matter with you?  I love my daughter!"  I told him no, he didn't, or he wouldn't let his daughter, who just turned 14, ride a motorbike to school, and especially without a helmet.  His argument was that she was a good driver, and that I was just a stupid American.  
 
Less than a month later she was crushed to death beneath the wheels of a cement truck when she made an illegal right hand turn.  Later that day my wife and I walked to his house to pay our condolences.  The father flew into a rage, yelling and screaming that it was my fault his daughter had died, and I had "wished evil luck" on her.  He came charging at me, so I decked him, then sat on him and told him the only person to blame for her death was the person who looked back at him from the mirror.  Even my wife told him - "The truck didn't kill your daughter, you did by letting her ride when she was only 14."  After a few moments of struggling, all the life seemed to go out of him and he broke down crying.  I got off him and we walked away.  A week or so later he and his wife moved, putting their house up for sale.  
 
 

Sad story, thanks for telling it. Excellent example of the Thai propensity to not accept responsibility. You did well in pointing it out to him (without consequences to your own health). He may have learned something but probably not. Won't bring the lovely young life back either way.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bheard]

My Daughters School  has several young female drivers ( M1 age ) of cars driving to School on a daily basis.
 
Do the School or the Police care - you bet they dont.
 
Many kids bribe their parents with the " if you dont buy me a Motorcycle, I wont go to School " , so the parents buy the Motorcycle as they are just too plain lazy to care for the kids and take them to school in a safe way.

Perhaps you illustrate the nub of a very large problem in Thailand - parents have no idea of bringing up children to respect discipline, hence the children have learned that they can bribe their parents. I've no doubt that is true, having spent some time with Thai families and witnessed their approach to the job of upbringing children.
The children then venture onto the roads and the rest of their lives without the notion of discipline to guide them.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bheard]

They already have 4 years of driving a car to school under their belt at that stage.
 
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The adult (?) taking the vid would have been very proud of her. Such is the prevailing mentality.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Happy Grumpy]

On 3/27/2018 at 2:29 PM, Cake Monster said:

You know what is the most disturbing aspect of this aledged  9 Y O driving to School. ?

 

Somebody was in the rear seat of the car and made the video showing her driving the car., and that person is a member of the Forum here and therefore presumably an adult.

 

 

It was shot by her Thai father, not a member of the forum.

 

 

Though, he is a better parent than the forum members that regularly take their kids out onto Thai roads on scooters.

[seajae]

8 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

 

It was shot by her Thai father, not a member of the forum.

 

 

Though, he is a better parent than the forum members that regularly take their kids out onto Thai roads on scooters.

this happened in Surat Thani, she was filmed by her father(a thai) from behind and from beside the car as well while on the move. She drove through main city streets to get to school while being barely able to reach the pedals or see over the dash, all he father was interested in was telling everyone how proud of her he was, being totally illegal and dangerous never came into it. This does show the stupidity of some thai parents, they cannot fathom everything that is wrong with it, same as the one that killed 10 people in Bangkok while driving under age without a license with her parents blessing, you can help stupid and when the police refuse to enforce the laws it just gets worse.