Electric pump to improve water pressure?

[ghworker2010]

We signed a long lease on a 4 level building. The pressure on ground and first floor is ok. Above that is no good. City water is connected but no pump yet. 

 

How do the pumps work exactly? Theres an old tank in the back garden and an old pump. I thought that the tank has to be on the highest part of the building and then pump the water up to that and then this supplies the whole building. Is this correct? Should we aim to put it on the upper level or will it work being located on the ground level?

 

Is an electric pump system guaranteed to give strong water supply to all floors once working correctly?

 

thanks

[BEVUP]

Town water flows into tank on the ground 

From there you will need a pump - You will have to check size & make (should have label ), would be good for other posters to know this info as they will maybe post pump charts

Water pressure should be ok if correct pump depending on how many outlets are opened

It has been noted that hot water shower systems do lack pressure

Also make sure there is a tap on the pipe that goes to the house (just after pump ) so you can turn of if have problem in house or to stop the water draining from house if problem outside 

[transam]

In my place the town water feeds a tank on the ground floor, that gravity feeds the pump, the pump then does it's thing to move it upwards with pressure.

 

I use a 250 watt pump with no pressure tank to take it up one more story, but you can get a higher wattage pump to do more work.

 

My pump is now 10 years old and has been in constant use...

[impulse]

53 minutes ago, ghworker2010 said:

Is an electric pump system guaranteed to give strong water supply to all floors once working correctly?

 

There are no guarantees in Thailand, but a properly designed and installed pump system will do the job- 100%*.

 

The size of the pump you need depends on how many tenants (actually, how many liters per minute you need) and the elevation you need to pump that water to.  I'd suggest you have a look at the old system and post up the nameplate information, along with an idea of what your LPM needs may be.  Sounds like the old system is either inadequate, or worn out.

 

*One caveat to that 100%...  If the pipes from the city are corroded or scaled up, it's possible that your system may be starved for inlet water and that needs to be fixed.  Not a high probability, but I don't know where you are, or where your building fits in the city distribution system.

 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

There are no guarantees in Thailand, but a properly designed and installed pump system will do the job- 100%*.

 

The size of the pump you need depends on how many tenants (actually, how many liters per minute you need) and the elevation you need to pump that water to.  I'd suggest you have a look at the old system and post up the nameplate information, along with an idea of what your LPM needs may be.  Sounds like the old system is either inadequate, or worn out.

 

*One caveat to that 100%...  If the pipes from the city are corroded or scaled up, it's possible that your system may be starved for inlet water and that needs to be fixed.  Not a high probability, but I don't know where you are, or where your building fits in the city distribution system.

 

My town water supply pressure would never reach my upper floor with any real pressure. I have a bypass in case the pump packs up, it struggles to get to my first floor..

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

My town water supply pressure would never reach my upper floor with any real pressure. I have a bypass in case the pump packs up, it struggles to get to my first floor..

 

One quick test is to open up the city line at the ground floor into a bucket and see how many liters per minute it will flow with no back pressure at all.  If you need (for example) 100 liters per minute for when everyone's taking a shower, and the city line only gives you 10 liters per minute, you can still make it work.  But you'll need to add storage capacity onsite to collect that 10 liters per minute all day long so you'll have the 100 liters per minute when everyone gets up in the morning, flushes the toilet and hops in the shower.  Peak use may only last an hour or so...

 

That's why you see so many of those big stainless or plastic water tanks on the roofs of so many buildings.  Putting the storage on the roof also reduces the size of the pump you need to meet peak demand since the water's already at elevation- your peak time pump doesn't have to lift it AND add pressure.

 

Edit:  If I'm making a point here, it's that there is some engineering that goes into these systems.  And lots of companies in Thailand that have the engineering talent onboard.  Some of them are happy to do the engineering if you're going to buy the system from them.  The little neighborhood shops that sells chain saws, drill presses and water pumps aren't them.

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by impulse

[transam]

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

One quick test is to open up the city line at the ground floor into a bucket and see how many liters per minute it will flow with no back pressure at all.  If you need (for example) 100 liters per minute for when everyone's taking a shower, and the city line only gives you 10 liters per minute, you can still make it work.  But you'll need to add storage capacity onsite to collect that 10 liters per minute all day long so you'll have the 100 liters per minute when everyone gets up in the morning, flushes the toilet and hops in the shower.  Peak use may only last an hour or so...

 

That's why you see so many of those big stainless or plastic water tanks on the roofs of so many buildings.  Putting the storage on the roof also reduces the size of the pump you need to meet peak demand since the water's already at elevation- your peak time pump doesn't have to lift it AND add pressure.

 

My point was directed at the OP's situation. Ground floor tank on site, fit non pressure tank pump, job done..But someone has to pay for the electric, the landlord will not want too...

Edited April 20, 2018 by transam

[Fruit Trader]

Until the OP comes back with a sensible description of his 4 level lease its all hot air to nowhere.

[VocalNeal]

Simplest: Most domestic water pumps will lift 9m and have a discharge of about 19m and rated for 2-3 storey properties. so if you want to shower on the top floor put the pump on the 1st floor.  Pump will lift the water up and then distribute. 

 

Best: Tank on the roof is the best bet if the roof can support the load then pump down from there. Requires two tanks ( ground level storage and roof storage) and two pumps (one to pump the water up and one to distribute.) but... 

[crazykopite]

I to had a 4 storey property with the same issue I purchased a computerised Grunfos pump this is the dogs <deleted> of pumps it even has an indicator that tells you if you have a leak in your house . I put on all 6 of my power showers as well as 14 taps and on every floor there was no difference in pressure it made such a difference , the only issue was the price 20,000 baht the whole thing is plastic so no rust issues best pump I have ever had .

[sometimewoodworker]

30 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

I to had a 4 storey property with the same issue I purchased a computerised Grunfos pump this is the dogs <deleted> of pumps it even has an indicator that tells you if you have a leak in your house . I put on all 6 of my power showers as well as 14 taps and on every floor there was no difference in pressure it made such a difference , the only issue was the price 20,000 baht the whole thing is plastic so no rust issues best pump I have ever had .

I think the prices have come down a bit since you bought yours 

SCALA2 3-45 is now 17,000

Edited April 21, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[kamalabob2]

The OP could consider visiting an authorized Mitsubishi SUPER PUMP dealer. It will not be Homepro, ThaiWatsadu, Global House, Home Mart, or Mega Home. A water pump specialist can show him the brochure and actual working Mitsubishi Super Pump. Most every Province has one Mitsubishi Superpump dealer that installs water pumps at taller student housing apartment buildings.  In Buriram you can see what water pumps work in multi story buildings including the Buritel Hotel, Keen Condominium, B2 Hotel,. Hop Inn, etc.. The price difference between Mitsubishi Super Pumps and the imported Grundfos pumps of a similar function is significant. 

[lopburi3]

Grundfos are very good pumps providing hi PSI (hopefully your pipes are good for it).  But those available in PI seem to be without pressure tanks - just cup size reserve - so have to start each time water is required and stay on.  This staying on can be a problem if your draw tank is in equator sun as the water can get too hot to cool pump and cause shutdown.  When I used that type pump had to build roof over water tanks to keep sun from hitting them.

 

In Thailand most sold now look similar to below and have start/stop pressure setting and have been using some years now without any failure.  Had previously used bottom image type.

[transam]

I have one of these, ground floor water tank feeds it, 10 years old..

 

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

LOL. The OP disapears and team Mitsubishi move in complete with thumbs up fashion show, negatives about using the large hardware stores and the high price of Grundfos pumps. Coming soon, pumps power tools and thumbs up scantily clad girls.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Fruit Trader

[masuk]

On 4/20/2018 at 9:31 AM, transam said:

My town water supply pressure would never reach my upper floor with any real pressure. I have a bypass in case the pump packs up, it struggles to get to my first floor..

I had the same problem when I moved into a new place.  Hardly any pressure to the shower at all.

Took things apart and found every filter was blocked with fine granules of charcoal (city water ).

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, masuk said:

I had the same problem when I moved into a new place.  Hardly any pressure to the shower at all.

Took things apart and found every filter was blocked with fine granules of charcoal (city water ).

 

I've had the same thing happen and it was just the little screen on my shower head and every faucet in the apartment clogged with sand.  Or it may have been scale.   Don't know, don't care.  Cleaned the screens and it was all good.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by impulse

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I to had a 4 storey property with the same issue I purchased a computerised Grunfos pump this is the dogs <deleted> of pumps it even has an indicator that tells you if you have a leak in your house . I put on all 6 of my power showers as well as 14 taps and on every floor there was no difference in pressure it made such a difference , the only issue was the price 20,000 baht the whole thing is plastic so no rust issues best pump I have ever had .

<images removed>

Thanks, I was just going to mention my home country's Grundfos pump with constant water pressure, that a perfect solutions, and worth the investment, as Grundfos pumps almost lasts for ever (talk from experience).

[Wang Lalker]

5 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

LOL. The OP disapears and team Mitsubishi move in complete with thumbs up fashion show, negatives about using the large hardware stores and the high price of Grundfos pumps. Coming soon, pumps power tools and thumbs up scantily clad girls.

its been 5 hours now, how much longer do we have to wait?

[themerg]

You better get a pump you can clean. Thailand had very hard water.

[kamalabob2]

The OP or any motivated expat in Thailand can see and compare most all the major brands of water pumps for any purpose if they go in person and attend the free Architect Expo which starts on May 1st at Impact in Bangkok. I've attended most every year since 2007 and it is a great opportunity to see home building products and home furnishings that are really available in Thailand. You can sign up on line or at the entrance counter at Impact.   Grundfos, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, ITC are reputable brands which will have booths with technical advisors who understand and speak English. They will not sell you a pump, but they can give you a list of what dealers are in your province. The service AFTER you buy a water pump is a consideration in my personal experience in Buriram.  Yes there will be beautiful  women in a few booths of the Architect Expo.  The Hydro Silent water pump booth offers a hands on demonstration of the flow rate of the pressure pump. 

 

http://www.architectexpo.com/2018/exhibit-profile/

[transam]

The "key" with the OP's problem is the "freeholder" will have to pay for the pump and the electric it uses to supply 4 residences..He ain't going to like/do that...

 

 

[boomerangutang]

Nearly every water system in Thailand is a 2-pump system.  I acknowledge that the OP needs a 2-pump system, due to the low-pressure source he's stuck with. 

 

I've been a plumber for decades and have always put in 1-pump systems - usually a submersible pump with holding tank at highest point - so it's all gravity-feed.

 

I put in two check valves:  one is a 'foot-valve' 1.5 meters from the bottom of the well, and the other is at the well-head.  I rarely put shut-off cocks in-line, because there may be someone, later on, who turns it off without cutting the power to the pump.  

 

When I was 22, I invented an in-line contraption (analog, not digital) which shows whether there is any water flow.  Unless a person has x-ray vision like Superman, it's hard to tell whether a pipe has a flow - which is particularly useful when checking for leaks.  As far as I know, nothing exists which can serve that function.  I didn't pursue my invention (as with many other such abandoned projects) so, it never came into being, other than a prototype which is long gone.

 

 

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

36 minutes ago, transam said:

The "key" with the OP's problem is the "freeholder" will have to pay for the pump and the electric it uses to supply 4 residences..He ain't going to like/do that...

 

 

Cant find in the OP any mention of  4 residences.

The OP's done a runner leaving no detail on this 4 level lease. It could be 60 rooms for rent or a single shop house.

 

I cant see a landlord or whatever leaving any service costs open to his pocket. If its a shop house the services will be private or public and paid for by the new lease holder.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Fruit Trader

[KhunBENQ]

On 20.4.2018 at 2:54 PM, VocalNeal said:

Best: Tank on the roof is the best bet if the roof can support the load then pump down from there. Requires two tanks ( ground level storage and roof storage) and two pumps (one to pump the water up and one to distribute.) but... 

Kind of the norm for small commercial buildings and a common sight if you look from a rooftop or high balcony.

Own picture from Sep 17.

No price to win saying where this is

Edited April 22, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[impulse]

3 hours ago, kamalabob2 said:

The OP or any motivated expat in Thailand can see and compare most all the major brands of water pumps for any purpose if they go in person and attend the free Architect Expo which starts on May 1st at Impact in Bangkok. I've attended most every year since 2007 and it is a great opportunity to see home building products and home furnishings that are really available in Thailand. You can sign up on line or at the entrance counter at Impact.   Grundfos, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, ITC are reputable brands which will have booths with technical advisors who understand and speak English. They will not sell you a pump, but they can give you a list of what dealers are in your province. The service AFTER you buy a water pump is a consideration in my personal experience in Buriram.  Yes there will be beautiful  women in a few booths of the Architect Expo.  The Hydro Silent water pump booth offers a hands on demonstration of the flow rate of the pressure pump. 

 

http://www.architectexpo.com/2018/exhibit-profile/

 

I go to a lot of the industrial trade shows at BITEC, and there are some good ones throughout the year.  And rarely a shortage of eye candy.

 

One suggestion- bring a business card with you when you go and you can save some time filling out the entry form.  Even if it's not your own card- it's not like you care if they can contact you later...  They're generally free so it's not about the entry fee.  But they do expect business attire on some of them.

 

 

 

[Wang Lalker]

these are what are referred to as low hanging assets?

[sometimewoodworker]

On 21/04/2018 at 4:52 PM, kamalabob2 said:

The price difference between Mitsubishi Super Pumps and the imported Grundfos pumps of a similar function is significant. 

And the Mitsubishi super pump start at ฿?

[lopburi3]

On 4/21/2018 at 4:52 PM, kamalabob2 said:

The price difference between Mitsubishi Super Pumps and the imported Grundfos pumps of a similar function is significant. 

How do the noise levels compare?   My Grundfos is located inside kitchen and is difficult to hear through open door in next room and not a bother even at its location - almost no noise at all when it activates or is pumping - if was running air conditioner suspect would not even be able to hear it.  That has not been the case for other types of Mitsubishi pumps I have used (but have not used that  super pump).

 

[billd766]

On 21/4/2561 at 3:22 PM, crazykopite said:

I to had a 4 storey property with the same issue I purchased a computerised Grunfos pump this is the dogs <deleted> of pumps it even has an indicator that tells you if you have a leak in your house . I put on all 6 of my power showers as well as 14 taps and on every floor there was no difference in pressure it made such a difference , the only issue was the price 20,000 baht the whole thing is plastic so no rust issues best pump I have ever had .

 

Could you please tell me the model number of your Grundfos pump.