Cadburys Double Decker's are a lot smaller than they used to be!

How can Pattaya not be good? It has a big shopping mall.

I first came here 2003, and spent lots of time here over the next 3 years - the place was heaving, you could not walk 'unmolested' down soi 7 or 8. Now it's no where near the same - I miss that. But then again, the wife might not like me going there anymore anyhow ! 

I blame Mobile Phones...(for everything).

1 minute ago, dotpoom said:

I blame Mobile Phones...(for everything).

And you wouldn't be too far wrong in that assessment either...

The city has changed, a lot, in the last 25 years since my first trip here (back in Feb 1993). Between '93-2000 the main things I noticed were an increase in the number of go-go bars and the ever changing "trends" amongst the girls. 

At one time, literally every girl around was wearing platform shoes of some kind. Sneakers, sandals, hi-heeled - they all had 4-6(+) inch platforms on them because the girls thought that foreigners preferred "tall girls".
The fad faded away and then came the laser pointer fad. Every frikken girl on the street had a laser pointer and would flash it in the eyes of every foreigner they saw, trying to attract his attention. Of course, when the batteries died and they realized they'd have to buy new ones (or new pointers), that fad faded out as well.

Then came the "big hair" fad where girls were going to salons to have their hair poofed out so it stood out like a foot (30 cms) from their head (not "afro" style, but more like early 80s glam style taken to the extreme).

Then came the "big boob" fad where every girl that could come up with the cash (or some form of payment) was getting boob jobs. One girl I knew back in '98 used to buy thick padded bras. I accused her of "false advertising" but she insisted that she wasn't trying to make her boobs look bigger, she was trying to hide her almost always hard nipples ! Used to be rare to see a Thai girl with massive knockers but all of a sudden every other girl you saw was packing heavyweight silicone !
I also started noticing an increase in "large" girls. Seeing a chubby Thai girl used to be a rare thing, especially on Walking Street but again, there suddenly seemed to be an increase in the number of "curvy" girls on the streets and in the bars.
Tattoos. It used to be rare to see a Thai girl with ink. At one time it was a sure fire way to tell if a girl worked in a bar/a-go-go because "good girls" would never get a tattoo. Ain't no way they were going back to their home village and trying to explain that to the parents ! But that changed as well. I knew a few girls who'd gotten them because their "farang" boyfriend wanted them to (and was paying for it). I got the impression some guys were doing that to "brand" them, maybe thinking no one else would go near them afterwards. Eventually though it seemed to become yet another fad. Go to Pattaya, get a job in a bar/a-go-go and first paycheque (or generous customer) and it was off to the tattoo parlour to get the tramp stamp !

 

From 2000-present there have been changes as well. Obviously the city has grown but, perhaps somewhat less obviously (to many) the demographic has changed as well. Back in 2000 there were maybe what, a dozen "a-go-go's" in Pattaya, and all were directly on "Walking Street". By 2004 there were a couple dozen at least. Around '06/07 it had gotten to the point where I calculated that if you wanted to hit every go-go bar on Walking Street and spend only 30 minutes in each, it would take you something like 5 nights (bars opening at 8, closing at 2 or opening at 9 closing at 3 meant basically you could hit 12 a-go-gos a night if you stuck to a max of 30 minutes in each. So that made it something like 60+ a-go-gos by then. 

Some had started opening on the smaller sois as well (like Secrets on soi 14 and the group that opened on soi 16). 

It was sort of a big deal when a go-go bar opened up outside of Walking Street. A bunch of us had to make a special trip to soi 7 just to see this new place that had opened there but within a couple years there were go-gos all over the place, including out in Jomtien.

Back in those days though, if you sat in a beer bar on Walking Street and watched the foot traffic (and paid even the slightest attention to it) you'd notice that the vast majority of the foreigners all came from a certain "ethnic" background (i.e. they were mostly white people, from Australia, England, USA, Germany, Canada, Sweden, France, Norway, etc, etc). There was a small scattering of others (Indians, Arabs, Asians). If you saw a black guy it was almost certain that he had to be US Military and that the annual Cobra Gold exercise was taking place.

I used to say that sitting in a Walking Street beer bar (actually on Walking Street) and watching all the things going on was far better "reality TV" than any of that fake crap they had on TV.

The business owners were rolling in the cash. I knew quite a few of them because they'd formed their own motorcycle club and basically all the members owned businesses (hotels, bars, restaurants, shops) and they were all buying Harleys. There was a great "trickle down" effect as well. If the owners were making money, that meant the staff were as well and if the staff were making money then they were undoubtedly spending a lot of it as well (on food, clothes, gold, salons, karaoke bars,etc, etc).
Frik - I was making war zone money but felt like I was the poor guy every time we went anywhere ! 

Back then (2008+) the traffic in Pattaya wasn't as bad. Big C in North Pattaya was about the biggest shopping mall in the city and we used to roar down #2 road and go to EasyRiders which was just before the mall. You could ride on almost any street on a big bike without having to worry about traffic jams. Of course since then we've gotten a few more shopping centers/malls, a whole lot more people and a whole lot more traffic.
Of course those were the days as well when we'd ride down to soi Diamond, park the Harleys in front of a friends club, spend the evening partying up and down the street, move to a different spot after the bars closed and then somewhere around 5 am (or "first light" whichever came first) we'd mount up and ride home.

 

Over the last 10 years though, there seems to be a steady decline in the cash flow coming into the city and if you talk to those same business owners that once were rolling in the cash, you'd find out why. The streets may appear to be full of people, but apparently they aren't spending anywhere near as much as they used to. Nowadays when you look at Walking Street, there are far fewer of the "white" demographic and far more of the Arab/Indian/Asian demographics. 
Many of the business owners I know had to sell their Harleys (luxury items are often the first to go) and some had to sell off all, or most of, their businesses. The story is the same every time. They aren't making money anymore because most of those people on the streets aren't spending any money ! There are a few places still doing good, but no where like it used to be. I remember one place started bringing in the "Asian tour bus" crowds to try and bolster their business. Basically the tour group charges it's customers a flat fee for the tour. Included in the tour is their airfare, accommodations, meals and "admission fees" to various venues (like Nong Nooch or wherever). However, there are usually limitations. Like when a tour group would go to a go-go bar, each customer could have either 1 coke or 1 beer free and that was it. After an hour they'd move on to the next venue, say a restaurant, where they'd could order one or two items from a set menu and so on. 
Apparently, in most cases, all those people on those tours rarely ever spend a dollar out of their own pocket for anything except when they are taken to a shopping venue. The bar/restaurant may make a little extra from the 100 baht they charge the tour group operator per coke/beer but hardly anyone else is making anything. I sat with a manager at one place and we were talking about those tour groups and noted that the one currently in her place were all sitting there like statues, barely touching their drink. Maybe 30 of them. At 100 baht for each beer or coke, the bar made 3,000 baht (less expenses of course). My bar bill alone was over 4,000 that night (quite a few "lady drinks" in that total for some of the staff and dancers) plus a few hundred more in tips over the course of the evening. The bar made money off of me and many of the staff made a little extra as well. Not much but hey, I'm just one guy ! Imagine if there were 29 more like me in that place instead of 30 who weren't spending (or tipping) anything. Some clubs will either deny entrance to "certain" types of people, or charge them a "membership" fee to get it as they know if they don't, those people will likely sit in the bar for hours and not spend a cent. I often wonder what they say amongst themselves when they are being told they have to pay an entrance fee and then I walk up and get waved straight in without hesitation or question. (Of course, I often spend as much in the first hour as they will spend in the entire night.) 

A resort owner I know said that yeah, he had lots of guests but they weren't spending any money other than what the tour group paid for the rooms. They weren't ordering room service or eating in the restaurant (unless it was included in the deal) or drinking. So he was basically covering his expenses and that was about it. A couple other guys (all Thais) that own businesses (and Harleys) are down to making one "big" ride a year because they can't afford anymore than that. These are guys that used to go on 3-5 day trips almost every month but business is so slow because the people that used to be their customer base are not making money, so of course they aren't spending it like they used to either (the "trickle down" had pretty much dried up).

 

Despite the change, it seems that Pattaya is still going full steam ahead with expansion. More condo projects. More shopping malls. More "shop house" buildings (even when ones built 10 years ago are still sitting vacant). 

Eventually the pendulum is going to swing again and perhaps the demographic will change again as well. The "money" (tourism and investors) will go where it's wanted and if it's not wanted here, it will find a new place. Thailand made a big push to try and attract other "demographics" thinking that sheer numbers would equal massive profits. Then they started learning that "zero dollar" tourism may look good on the "tourist arrivals" chart, but not so good on the "bottom line" chart. The same goes for encouraging planeloads of people from countries that are not known for being overly "generous" in their spending habits. Of course, the reverse side of the coin is that if they try to target the "white" demographic again, they may face an increase in the "seedier" side of the tourism industry that they like to pretend doesn't exist.
 

When I made my first trip back in '93, I flew from Frankfurt on Lufthansa (as I was coming from Croatia where I was on a peace-keeping deployment). Had no idea what Thailand was like other than the old "The King and I" movie starring Yul Brenner and the song "One Night In Bangkok".

2 German guys were sitting in the same row as me and it turns out they were actually heading to the Philippines. They'd soured on Thailand and preferred Manila because it was cheaper (apparently they meant the girls were cheaper). I had no idea but wasn't going to Thailand for "girls". I was going because it was an "exotic" destination that I may never have the chance to visit again in my life. 
But thinking back on that flight, it's almost hard to believe that 25 years ago people were heading to the Philippines instead of Thailand because it was cheaper. Exchange rates were quite a bit different back then so maybe that had an effect.

The powers that be still dream about making Pattaya a "family" destination where millions of people will come to do nothing but stroll up and down streets full of shops, spending thousands per day on high end merchandise. 

Somehow I can't ever see that actually happening here, especially with the "demographics" Thailand is actively trying to attract. It's more likely to go the other way and become the kind of place where even the cops are scared to walk on the streets. 

People with money tend to spend money which is generally good all around.
People without money tend to be..........desperate. Usually not as good, especially for those around.

(pssst - the end. You can go back to sleep now.)

21 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Maybe you should get out a bit more. Ever been as far as the neighbouring town of where you live?

Why should living in Thailand have a visit to Pattaya as a prerequisite? I wonder if every resident of the UK has been to London? There's rather more to Thailand than just Sin City - and before the comedians come out of the woodwork, yes I've been to both .

19 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

IMO WS, Soi 6 and McDonalds are all disgusting.

McDonalds boast that their food tastes the same in every branch "worldwide", i.e., DISGUSTING.....But I don't mind Soi 6

5 hours ago, LennyW said:

Cadburys Double Decker's are a lot smaller than they used to be!

Yeh, but that's cos they kept hitting the overhead wires....Keep up!

3 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I blame Mobile Phones...(for everything).

I blame Germans.....but then  I am a Brit.

48 minutes ago, freebyrd said:

Why should living in Thailand have a visit to Pattaya as a prerequisite? I wonder if every resident of the UK has been to London? There's rather more to Thailand than just Sin City - and before the comedians come out of the woodwork, yes I've been to both .

The issue isn't "not having been to Pattaya" but rather "not having been to Pattaya but commenting as if you had been to Pattaya".....I think.. 

Why should living in Thailand have a visit to Pattaya as a prerequisite? I wonder if every resident of the UK has been to London? There's rather more to Thailand than just Sin City - and before the comedians come out of the woodwork, yes I've been to both .

I avoided Pattaya for many years, glad i found it though

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

All you other prudes, pontificates and otherwise puritanical pantywaists, thanks for your time. Now jog on.

He pompously pontificated. 

 

 

 

 

 

Kerry D- good and accurate report.  I first came to Pattaya  in the 1960s prior to the  arrival of the American GIs and found it to be a sleepy village with one  western style hotel- beautiful beach, clean, no traffic or pollution. 

 

As the years have progressed and I have moved permanently to Thailand- I have visited Pattaya hundreds of times- sometimes with family and other times without.  I currently find Pattaya- overbuilt; with a crumbling infrastructure; massive corruption and a dwindling sex industry and in addition it is just not fun. It has become too commercialized with the love of money  evident.  The 'entertainers' are not good at their 'job' and the punters are much more violent;  bad drunks and don't spend . Most of the owners would sell if they could but who wants to buy a bar/GoGo that is simply surviving.

 

IMHO Pattay has had its golden days and it will never be the same.  The Westerners who used to spend big just don't like it anymore and have moved on to better and friendlier places.  The bar owners are hurting and it's simply because there are too many of them and as one poster mentioned- they can't make money off the current tourist trade. Like the poster said- when I was drinking and running the bars- 4,000 Baht was a normal evening and  spenders like that were everywhere.  There were no fights- everyone handled their business and alcohol and it was a good time. That demographic is gone  and replaced by a different type of tourist who  just doesn't spend. There may be more in numbers but there is no trickle down

 

While the sex industry will always be there is sme form- it will be less obvious and relatively small.  What is happening in North Pattaya- with upscale malls and higher end tourists will spread towards  South Pattaya and eventually I expect Walking Street to be radically changed. Eventually, the  seaside shops will disappear due to sea encroachment and the other side will have relocated to other areas towards the darkside or Jomtien. I do see Pattaya become more family friendly with the rise of the Thai Middle Class and the decline of mongers.  

I do see Pattaya become more family friendly with the rise of the Thai Middle Class and the decline of mongers.  

I see an increase in Mongers from China, India, Russia, middle east, and other nationalities who have only just scratched the surface

20 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

This is really the wrong forum to post this thread. This is a very prudish forum where people either don't have sex or don't admit it, and certainly don't admit to paying for it

If you are under fifty and cannot get sex in Pattaya without paying for it, something is badly wrong, and you have only yourself to blame. You must be either overweight, too many tattooes, too much facial hair etc.

19 minutes ago, uffe123 said:

Pattaya was a decent place 15 years ago, now its just a cesspool.

Depends where you go and what your standards are

1 hour ago, Mario666 said:

I blame Germans.....but then  I am a Brit.

I blame the Chinese, cannot enjoy a decent 'all you can eat" buffet anymore.

6 hours ago, LennyW said:

Cadburys Double Decker's are a lot smaller than they used to be!

My curly wurly has shrunk.

12 minutes ago, champers said:

My curly wurly has shrunk.

Flake !!!!

If you are under fifty and cannot get sex in Pattaya without paying for it, something is badly wrong, and you have only yourself to blame. You must be either overweight, too many tattooes, too much facial hair etc.

Yes getting it for free is nice, its kinda normal if girls like you

55 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I blame the Chinese, cannot enjoy a decent 'all you can eat" buffet anymore.

Yeah...Them as well....and while we're at it Russians.

On 4/26/2018 at 2:10 PM, Jdiddy said:

There better still be plenty of non-fat and ugly PAYG material at reasonable prices when i retire there in 25 years

They've not been born yet then.

23 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

You're the first person ever to miss the Soi dogs.

It is low season so less people. I'm liking it with most of the tourists now gone

 

That's correct. The low season starts off after Songkran. Summer is coming in Russia, Europe and China.

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

This is really the wrong forum to post this thread. This is a very prudish forum where people either don't have sex or don't admit it, and certainly don't admit to paying for it

If you are under fifty and cannot get sex in Pattaya without paying for it, something is badly wrong, and you have only yourself to blame. You must be either overweight, too many tattooes, too much facial hair etc.

What's wrong with paying for it? You could be better off paying for it. i.e. you're actually paying for them to leave. Fewer hassles down the road and also more fun without the emotional nonsense that many would like to avoid. Free today - costly tomorrow LOL.

3 hours ago, freebyrd said:

Why should living in Thailand have a visit to Pattaya as a prerequisite? I wonder if every resident of the UK has been to London? There's rather more to Thailand than just Sin City - and before the comedians come out of the woodwork, yes I've been to both .

Maybe not every resident of the UK has been to London but I am sure 95% of every visitor/expat has at least visited/check out London before setling down  somewhere else in the UK. Why would someone spend 30 years in Thailand and not check out many city/towns in the country including Pattaya?

 

5 minutes ago, tropo said:

What's wrong with paying for it? You could be better off paying for it. i.e. you're actually paying for them to leave. Fewer hassles down the road and also more fun without the emotional nonsense that many would like to avoid. Free today - costly tomorrow LOL.

Yes, I agree with you, I have never been against prostitution, as long as no one is getting hurt, and there is no underage sex involved, in fact I think it should be legalised, and I don't just mean in Thailand. 

Yes, I agree with you, I have never been against prostitution, as long as no one is getting hurt, and there is no underage sex involved, in fact I think it should be legalised, and I don't just mean in Thailand. 

Plus as we all know, many guys are paying their wives and girlfriends anyway

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

10 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Yes, I agree with you, I have never been against prostitution, as long as no one is getting hurt, and there is no underage sex involved, in fact I think it should be legalised, and I don't just mean in Thailand. 

Plus as we all know, many guys are paying their wives and girlfriends anyway

Yes, that's true, but in my case, both me and my wife have our own money, but that is not to say I never contribute to anything financially, it is my choice.

20 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Is anywhere in the world as good as it used to be?

Yes, Romford.