Con man Or is he just outsmarted me?

[JAZZDOG]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I suspect that you only bought a small half of a company, and that is the first downside of "owning" a business in Thailand. Then you can add on the potential problems with partners, staff, scams, suppliers, shake-downs, landlords ....... the list is endless. I dare say that your business does return an income: many do. But I would rather have one elsewhere than here due to the many downsides here.

Answers in order, false, false, false, true, why would someone run a business elsewhere when they reside here? You are entitled to your opinions, your generalizations and suspicions but you are not entitled to you own facts.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, torrzent said:

Maybe 20 other people also have 10%?  Reminds me of the old Yogi Berra saying,

Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical.

 

Good point and I wonder what was the initial cash investment to get the '10%' ownership?

 

 

[The manic]

21 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

That would be a first that a foreigner can own a bar in Thailand.

Yes they can and do depending how much money they put into it and how many people they employ

[JAZZDOG]

At the end of the day your friend screwed up. For the money he foolishly invested plus the funds he will more than likely hand to an attorney resulting in nothing but more stress plus the money he investing in the place while he sat around drinking beer and giving directions ( without a work permit ? ). His opportunity cost was that for the same amount of money he most likely could have sat on the same stool drinking and taking home dancers for free to his dying day. As it is he has been refused entry by the farang who snaked his money. You really screwed up dude, so sorry, I mean your friend.

[JAZZDOG]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Good point and I wonder what was the initial cash investment to get the '10%' ownership?

 

 

Somewhere around the cost of drinking beer and banging dancers every night for the rest of his life 

[xylophone]

As others have said on here, unfortunately your friend is pretty well stuffed IMO.

 

Very relevant was the post which suggested that trying to claim a 10% share of a company which owes millions of baht is probably not the most sensible idea in the world!

 

A guy I know here used to do that with his bar and he would sell 25% of it to relatively new farangs, and that would be for the remainder of his initial lease (a year perhaps?). When the end of that lease period came up, the 25% ownership reverted back to him.

 

A few guys thought it was a great deal, being able to visit "their own bar" and have a few free beers and chat to the girls, without thinking that this money would be written off at the end of a period of time.

 

He kept afloat for quite a while doing this, however I haven't seen him of late?

 

More to the point, if the bar owner in this case is very well connected, then one is potentially treading on dangerous ground if one pursues it.

 

Put it down to experience.

Edited May 7, 2018 by xylophone

[Brewster67]

15 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It's a complete mystery to me why anyone would ever get involved in any sort of business venture in Thailand. Nothing but downsides.

I absolutely disagree with you that businesses in thailand are nothing but downsides.

 

I know plenty of farang who own businesses here and are thriving, in  fact the overwhelming majority who enter into business ventures here do very very well.

 

It is the tiny minority who fail and that is nothing to do with thailand, but is because the person running the business hasn't got a clue about what they are doing and never will do well in business no matter where they are.

 

The most common failure is the bar/food sector, and that is only because that particular industry has been totally swamped with competition that EVERYONE struggles.

 

Me and the wife run three small businesses and make a great living from them. I know many farang doing well here even some who own bars... The ones I see fail are the ones who follow their desires instead of their instincts.. They are so blinded by a lifelong ambition of owning their own bar in paradise that they totally ignore all the hard work and risk involved, they are the ones who lose their asses.

 

Since I have lived in Korat over the past eight years, I have seen one prime example of this.. In town there is an expat bar, in my time here it has changed hands 5 times and every one of them have gone bust... All farang..... Who in their right mind buys a failed business and expects it to something other than fail????

 

You know... The software development business has an excellent term for people who blame the tools when it is their own failings... It is called the PICNIC analogy... (Problem In Chair, Not In Computer) and that applies to this perfectly.

[Monkeyrobot]

Forget about it and walk away.

[smotherb]

A story as old as feeding 5,000 with five loaves and two fish. How many 10% shares do you think this "owner" sold? Did this "owner" really have a Thai partner and hold a Thai limited partnership business; or was he just a foreign manager? Why did your friend not get sufficient answers for looking at the books or who else were partners? I can see it now, he hooked your friend with the ultimate sexpat's dream; then reeled him in for a 10% share of promises. Lease running out, landlord kicking them out, lease payments not made? Duh, just more obvious signs of the classic rip-off.

[smotherb]

21 minutes ago, Monkeyrobot said:

Forget about it and walk away.

Yeah, that's what the shysters count on.

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

Yes they can and do depending how much money they put into it and how many people they employ

No you're wrong.

 

Regardless how many billion to put into it and how many people they employ, a bar license is off limits to a foreigner.

[JAZZDOG]

20 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

No you're wrong.

 

Regardless how many billion to put into it and how many people they employ, a bar license is off limits to a foreigner.

Not exactly true. A farang can be a director owning 49% shares in a company which owns a bar but he must have a work permit and employ at least 4 Thais. With a work permit he can be the sole individual signing off for the company. He can also stipulate in the books a vote of 65% shareholders to change director thereby assuring control. Problem is most bars wont support paying taxes on 5 employees, minimum $90K payroll per month plus added administrative fees.

Another option to the same effect is to have Thai director, no work permit, don't engage in work of any kind and stipulate in the books a 65% super majority needed to sell or encumber . Taxes and administration costs much less as well as being under the radar. As is always the case if people are inclined to conspire to commit fraud all bets are off.

[The manic]

Just now, janclaes47 said:

No you're wrong.

 

Regardless how many billion to put into it and how many people they employ, a bar license is off limits to a foreigner.

https://www.thethailandlife.com/starting-a-business-in-thailand this suggests otherwise...I think. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by The manic

[janclaes47]

1 minute ago, The manic said:

Does that apply to restaurants too?

 Which part of bar is it that you can't get your head around?

[The manic]

Just now, janclaes47 said:

 Which part of bar is it that you can't get your head around?

Odd question. There can be bars that serve food and restaurants that serve alcohol and have music. There are beer bar, Go Go bars, open air bar, mobile bars. I am not suggesting you are wrong just asking for clarification, certainly not impertinence or tantrums. 

[janclaes47]

Just now, The manic said:

Odd question. There can be bars that serve food and restaurants that serve alcohol and have music. There are beer bar, Go Go bars, open air bar, mobile bars. I am not suggesting you are wrong just asking for clarification, certainly not impertinence or tantrums. 

Try to read the OP again, and you will know which kind of bar is the discussion here.

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, janclaes47 said:

Try to read the OP again, and you will know which kind of bar is the discussion here.

Please provide the basis of your opinion/fact. The entity that owns the bar/gogo/restaurant bar, whatever is the limited company, not the individual. Shareholders own the company and as long as the company has less than 49% foreign ownership it is legal, in most cases including bars. Shareholders can vote in a farang as director but as director he must sign for the company. Signing for the company is considered work requiring a WP. Directors are the only ones to legally sign for licenses/renewals. As a shareholder you can schedule/attend as many shareholder meetings as there are days of the week and that is not considered work hence no WP required. I got my head around this from what I believe to be a reliable attorney. Please direct me to information supporting your position. Thanks

[KittenKong]

Answers in order, false, false, false, true, why would someone run a business elsewhere when they reside here? You are entitled to your opinions, your generalizations and suspicions but you are not entitled to you own facts.

Strange. I see and hear endless reports of people being scammed by business "partners" here, and endless reports of problems with staff and landlords etc etc. Even the people I know who run apparently successful businesses here and have done so for many years all seem to have these problems to a greater or lesser extent.
Either way I see nothing in the slightest way attractive about being involved in a business in Thailand and I certainly wont be doing it today or tomorrow or ever. You can do what you like, of course, and good luck to you.

[LivinLOS]

On 06/05/2018 at 8:51 AM, janclaes47 said:

That would be a first that a foreigner can own a bar in Thailand.

Of course they can.. as long as the premises are rented / leased as per the OPs information. 

[KittenKong]

I absolutely disagree with you that businesses in thailand are nothing but downsides.

.............
I know plenty of farang who own businesses here and are thriving, in fact the overwhelming majority who enter into business ventures here do very very well.
.............
Me and the wife run three small businesses and make a great living from them.

Well, I'm glad that someone does. Personally I would not have a business here as a gift, and thankfully I don't need one so the question will never arise. I would say the same about having a Thai wife, which often seems to be a requirement for anyone hoping to run a business here with anything approaching success.

[watcharacters]

9 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

This. Case closed. Time to part another fool with money.

 

Brilliant  non thinking reply to NancyL    She was sincere and you chose to give a  flippant answer.    

 

I wish you had done otherwise.

[Mansell]

If you are serious about a lawyer do a search for Nakhon Ratchasima for French Canadian lawyer who has Thai partners. He is a good guy and came highly recommended by a friend who used him for his many properties. You can also do a Skype call with him and explain everything, though I would send an email first and then talk. Should be able to get a good handle on the facts and options in two hours etc. The name is Isaan Lawyers.....just looked it up. Good luck.

[thesetat2013]

many many thanks for all the constructive feedback. I am forwarding all related info to my friend to read and decide his options... personally i think he is conned and stands a good chance at getting hurt if he pursues this. But there is a chance that this is full of hot air and weight and using it as a scare tactic as well... I will continue tsking helpful information to anyone with good sound advice. Again thanks for the feedback

[JAZZDOG]

3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Strange. I see and hear endless reports of people being scammed by business "partners" here, and endless reports of problems with staff and landlords etc etc. Even the people I know who run apparently successful businesses here and have done so for many years all seem to have these problems to a greater or lesser extent.
Either way I see nothing in the slightest way attractive about being involved in a business in Thailand and I certainly wont be doing it today or tomorrow or ever. You can do what you like, of course, and good luck to you.

I hear you, whatever makes you happy is good. I retired 15 years ago at 45 and found it extremely boring and unhealthy after about 6 months. I was a contractor for twenty five years, made good money but hated every minute building custom homes for bitter Americans. I built a resort rental in Central American which was a huge success, then another. A few years later I built a similar property on the beach in Bahia and more recently acquired a similar business here. I did it more as a land bank than anything but I got to a place I enjoyed building again. Now my properties make 4X as much as placing funds elsewhere. Best part I can travel anytime to popular tourist destinations on any of three continents, get picked up at the airport and sleep in my own bed. Retirement is good for some folks, not so good for many others, and unfortunately fatal for a few.  One just needs to scope out Pattaya.

[Straight8]

1 hour ago, thesetat2013 said:

I am forwarding all related info to my friend to read and decide his options... personally i think he is conned and stands a good chance at getting hurt if he pursues this.

Yeah, ham roll comes to mind!!!!

[Unsane]

1 hour ago, thesetat2013 said:

I am forwarding all related info to my friend to read and decide his options... personally i think he is conned and stands a good chance at getting hurt if he pursues this. 

One thing's for sure, unless your 'friend' is a masochist, then he won't the same mistake again.  A good lesson in life and the bar scene is definitely not a place to make money.  Please inform him that he'd make more money with his wife / girlfriend cooking up 40 baht roadside noodles dishes.  Pad Thai at 45 baht if it's really good.  

[ericthai]

On 5/6/2018 at 2:38 AM, thesetat2013 said:

Irrelevant reply as the owner of the bar is a foreigner

There needs to a be at least one Thai with  51% ownership!

[JimmyJ]

```

Edited May 8, 2018 by JimmyJ
Thanks for the like - after posting though, I realized "What's the difference?", so deleting the post.

[jerojero]

You can leave Thailand after a while with a small fortune.... If you arrive initially with a large fortune.

[mogandave]

I hear you, whatever makes you happy is good. I retired 15 years ago at 45 and found it extremely boring and unhealthy after about 6 months. I was a contractor for twenty five years, made good money but hated every minute building custom homes for bitter Americans. I built a resort rental in Central American which was a huge success, then another. A few years later I built a similar property on the beach in Bahia and more recently acquired a similar business here. I did it more as a land bank than anything but I got to a place I enjoyed building again. Now my properties make 4X as much as placing funds elsewhere. Best part I can travel anytime to popular tourist destinations on any of three continents, get picked up at the airport and sleep in my own bed. Retirement is good for some folks, not so good for many others, and unfortunately fatal for a few.  One just needs to scope out Pattaya.

Ultimately, it’s fatal for everyone...