Swiss father finally allowed to see his children as he prepares to cremate his beloved son who fell from a balcony

[snoop1130]

Swiss father finally allowed to see his children as he prepares to cremate his beloved son who fell from a balcony

 

 

The Swiss father of the four children that fell from a Ramkhamhaeng balcony last week has finally been allowed to see his children that remain in hospital.

 

Marcel Borel said on his Facebook page (Marcy Borel) that after six days of fighting he had been allowed to see his children Dima, Luka and Chanida.

 

Two are still fighting for their lives in ICU and pictures showing the children with severe facial bruising were posted on Facebook.

 

On Wednesday Marcel will be going to a temple in Bangkapi to attend the cremation ceremony for his son Alex, 5, who died in the fall last week.

 

He said: At 2pm I will go to the temple to say bye bye to Nong Lek".

 

In a previous post that might have been removed Mr Borel blamed his wife and her parents for the tragedy. 

 

He claimed that they were wasting donations on clothes and shoes and were only interested in money.

 

Others have said that he should look after the children while the Thai grandparents and the mother have said "no way".

 

It is believed that Mr Borel was granted custody of the children some while ago but his estranged wife has refused to comply with the court order.

 

She was out at work at night when the children all fell separately from a platform used for draining plates outside the fourth floor balcony that gave way.

 

Alex died and the others aged 11,10 and 7 were severely injured.

 

The grandparents were in a first floor flat having locked the children up for the night.

 

Mr Borel said earlier he had not been with his children for four years after he split up with their mother.

 

Messages of support from both Thais and foreigners continued to flow into his Facebook page.

 

He posted a brief video of him embracing one of his children in their hospital bed. 

 

Some suggested in Thai that he should hire another lawyer to get the court process moving again. 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-5-8

[Richard Pumpaloaf]

Congratulations!!!!!

I truly feel for this guy

He is a greater man than I

[Unsane]

Locking kids away with no supervision is not good parenting.  I hope the remaining kids aren't sent back to his mother.  That can't be allowed to happen, then again, TiT.

[Get Real]

First, refusing to comply with a court order. Second, her children don´t get education enough from her as a parent, to know the dangers existing.
Third, because of the second and no supervision the children fall from the balcony.

I guess it´s high time to give Mr. Borel his chance. I doubt he can do worse.

[sweatalot]

16 minutes ago, Get Real said:

First, refusing to comply with a court order. Second, her children don´t get education enough from her as a parent, to know the dangers existing.
Third, because of the second and no supervision the children fall from the balcony.

I guess it´s high time to give Mr. Borel his chance. I doubt he can do worse.

Another case where the mother uses the children as a weapon of hatred against the father. Unfortunately the right of the father is not well protected by law. In the end the children will be victims, too - in this case by missing a proper education among emotional and other disadvantages.

[Tradewind777]

This is the final straw. There are just too many of these kinds of stories in Thailand. So many folks launching themselves from balconies and unexplained terminations of life. Sadly there will be more of this kind of  tragedy filling these pages. Truly awful.

[MaxLee]

11 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Swiss father finally allowed to see his children as he prepares to cremate his beloved son who fell from a balcony

Well,.... I guess the wifey had to prepare a couple of brown envelopes first to pay some secret government officials....

[IamNoone88]

The entire custodial mindset and system needs to change in Thailand. This is just one small part of a much larger problem. 

[greenchair]

So with his court order, the children should not be allowed to leave the hospital with her. 

[Destiny1990]

She is criminal not let father see his kids and why she not take normal day job while the kids are supervised at school??

[NextStationBangkok]

Taking children as hostage for financial gain should be declared a criminal activity, and remove the kids such parents, and remove the custody as well.

 

Court should listen to kids rather than parents.

[dorchester]

Sounds like mommie is a clear and present danger.If legal he should record their conversations

[lensta]

Locking four children aged 11,10 ,7 and 5 in a room alone, what could possibly go wrong??

 

The grandparents were supposed to be taking care of the children at that time, but instead,

locked them in a room alone and because of this, 1 child is dead and 2 others are fighting for

their lives. Do these grandparents have 1 functioning brain cell between them?

 

Not only that, but the grandfather has the audacity to say that he will never allow the father to

have the children, does he not realize because of his decision to leave the kids alone the kids

are either dead or in critical condition.

 

The grandparents should be charged with causing death through negligence.

 

 

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, NextStationBangkok said:

Taking children as hostage for financial gain should be declared a criminal activity, and remove the kids such parents, and remove the custody as well.

 

Court should listen to kids rather than parents.

that will not work. Usually kids are living with the mother already - contact to the father denied. Easy job for the mother to influence the children the way she wants. (Own experience)

[2008bangkok]

5 hours ago, sweatalot said:

Another case where the mother uses the children as a weapon of hatred against the father. Unfortunately the right of the father is not well protected by law. In the end the children will be victims, too - in this case by missing a proper education among emotional and other disadvantages.

Actually the law to married fathers is alot better in Thailand than in other countries. Legally if you are married at time of birth fathers/husbands have as much right as the mother 50/50.

Im sure there is something not right though.. in another report it said the swiss man went down and registered himself as the father which means he probably wasn't married at the time of birth.

Now this report is saying he gained custody so he is the legal guardian and he should get the piece of paper to proof it and take the kids to live with him.

 

You cannot lock children in a room at night while going out to work... The mother is guilty of neglect because she knows that the children are left unsupervised after a certain time at night and the grandparents are guilty of neglect because they have been trusted to take care of them and are not doing so.

 So open and shut case. Give the children to the rightful legal guardian which is the father.

 

If this was in US the grandparents would be looking at a good bit of jail time for this. 

[n210mp]

There are no winners in this but to point the finger at the man, the woman , the Grand parents is pointless and wrong.

 

Those of you who have critisised unfairly  dont know all the circumstances, you dont know him, you dont know her, you dont  know the grandparents!!

 

<deleted> stop blaming people aren't they going through enough without your sad input,  shit  and accidents happen and it always happens at the wrong time, live with it, learn, and Thank whom you ever  believed in, that it hasn't happened to you but dont <deleted> attach blame to people whose character you dont know or understand and blacken with your over simplified comments!

[Aussieroaming]

How sad this is

[falangjim]

I read another article about this sad story, and the Thai grandfather was adamant about Mr. Borel, who is the natural father mind you, to never be allowed custody of the kids.  The article later went on to say the reasoning behind this feeling was that Mr. Borel "smoked cigarettes" and "went out a lot."  And I guess, according to the grandpa, he didn't provide money (enough money?) for the kids.  But who is to say?  Who knows the truth?  If the mom denied a willing natural father visitation rights, perhaps Mr. Borel felt it in his right to deny family support.  

 

I write these things not knowing the details of how for four years Mr. Borel never saw his own children.  This sounds ridiculous.  It sounds ridiculous, until you consider the country we are in. When you take into account that Mr. Borel had five kids with this baby-factory-of-a- woman, and he stuck around, Mr. Borel doesn't sound like that bad of a guy. It wasn't like he did what Thai men do: impregnate a girl and then disappear--you know, that old chestnut.  This guy actually stuck around for five births!  I think that has to count for something positive in his character. 

 

He doesn't sound like a saint, but I am pulling for him to get custody of the remaining children.  And I wish the children a speedy recovery.  It's the kids I feel the worst for; left alone, locked in a room (what family does that to its own children?)  And now in hospital with facial bruising.  Terrible. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by falangjim

[Maestro]

Removed an incomprehensible post and a troll post and the replies to them.

[smew]

2 hours ago, HaleySabai said:

....mmm..just a wild guess...are you Thai...?

No, had the same issue back home: made a point to go see my daughters at their schools without their mother knowing about it. If you want to, there are ways to maintain contacts with your children, but only if you really care.

[lensta]

On 5/9/2018 at 12:23 PM, n210mp said:

There are no winners in this but to point the finger at the man, the woman , the Grand parents is pointless and wrong.

 

Those of you who have critisised unfairly  dont know all the circumstances, you dont know him, you dont know her, you dont  know the grandparents!!

 

<deleted> stop blaming people aren't they going through enough without your sad input,  shit  and accidents happen and it always happens at the wrong time, live with it, learn, and Thank whom you ever  believed in, that it hasn't happened to you but dont <deleted> attach blame to people whose character you dont know or understand and blacken with your over simplified comments!

This isn't "shit happens or an accident", this incident happened because the people that were supposed to be looking after the children (grandparents) weren't looking after them and they were negligent.  Tell me n210mp, would you leave 4 children aged between 5 and 11 alone in an apartment? If you had someone looking after your children, be it a friend, baby sitter or relative and you found out that they had just lock your kids in your apartment and left, would you still have the same "shit happens" attitude?

[Cuba]

I can't believe the grandparents are also trying to block him from having his children with him. It's due to their negligence that one of the children died and another is in intensive care. 

 

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, lensta said:

This isn't "shit happens or an accident", this incident happened because the people that were supposed to be looking after the children (grandparents) weren't looking after them and they were negligent.  Tell me n210mp, would you leave 4 children aged between 5 and 11 alone in an apartment? If you had someone looking after your children, be it a friend, baby sitter or relative and you found out that they had just lock your kids in your apartment and left, would you still have the same "shit happens" attitude?

 

 Thank you for your input and well said. I know I wouldn't have any sympathy whatsoever for the woman who went to work leaving the kids vulnerable and probably knowing they would be locked in the apartment.

 

For the grandparents then to say no way can the natural father be granted custody or access after the dreadful occurrence that has occurred on ' their watch '  is breathtakingly arrogant and beyond comprehension.

 

This is certainly not ' shit happens ' this is a totally avoidable tragedy.

 

You would have the children removed and have charges brought against you in court for this in any sane country.

[MaeJoMTB]

4 hours ago, n210mp said:

Those of you who have critisised unfairly  dont know all the circumstances, you dont know him, you dont know her, you dont  know the grandparents!!

Don't need to know mom or grandparents or circumstances.

Do know leaving children alone locked in an apartment is a criminal offense in a western country.

And would result in a lengthy jail term if one of them died while alone.

Edited May 9, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[thailand49]

It all smells about the mother and I have a few choice words like the rest about her but I also wonder because what is missing here for me is if the guy had a court order for custody and went through the system to obtain it although she refuse why does she have the kids he had the law on his side but seem to have given up that right?  Doesn't pass the smell test for me that he isn't allowed to see the kids if he has legal custody?  If what I'm reading is correct?  I would certainly would get the best lawyer money can buy and get that custody order enforced, threaten to file or push charges against the mother and her parent for child neglect although it is common here in Thailand in our western definition, and also file a lawsuit against the building owner for neglect of the property since the balcony gave way a separate issue!  There is more to this story as always but I'm not going to paint the guy a saint since it seem he gave up that right easier to just make a monthly payment. I read somewhere earlier he hasn't seen them in a few years I wonder what that is all about too?  I understand we are all different as parents and it might be the norm within the poor in general in the Thai culture but it seem there was some abandonment on both parties?

Saddest thing as noted the kids are always the one that suffer but it isn't too late for these kids if it was me I would fight like hell to get the right back and get them out of the country.

R.I.P little one!

Edited May 9, 2018 by thailand49

[bandito]

19 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

She is criminal not let father see his kids and why she not take normal day job while the kids are supervised at school??

No customers in daytime?

[n210mp]

12 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Don't need to know mom or grandparents or circumstances.

Do know leaving children alone locked in an apartment is a criminal offense in "a western country."

And would result in a lengthy jail term if one of them died while alone.

 

"In a Western country"

 

Thailand is not or haven't you noticed a Western Country?

 

That says it all no more needed!

 

Ignorance stupidity are not criminal offences either as shown by some of the Judgmental comments on this thread.

 

There is no  social security cushion here, there is no state help when you are in trouble, you are on your own! 

 

A woman trying to bring her Kids up, especially on her own with only the help of ageing parents Thailand is  in a desperate plight surely that must be obvious..

 

Trying to "criminalise" them when things go badly  wrong in my book is "criminal".

 

Unless you have experienced what they have experienced and had to do what they have had to do in their sometimes very sad lives leave "judgment up to a better and more wise Authority.

 

Have you and others who love to "cast the first stone" ever made a mistake in your lives or done something illegal that you never got found out about?

 

From an old Native American proverb  " Unless you have walked many moons in their moccasins do not judge them"!

 

 

[MaxLee]

23 hours ago, IamNoone88 said:

The entire custodial mindset and system needs to change in Thailand. This is just one small part of a much larger problem. 

Yep, too much homecourt advantage.

[Scouse123]

4 hours ago, n210mp said:

 

"In a Western country"

 

Thailand is not or haven't you noticed a Western Country?

 

That says it all no more needed!

 

Ignorance stupidity are not criminal offences either as shown by some of the Judgmental comments on this thread.

 

There is no  social security cushion here, there is no state help when you are in trouble, you are on your own! 

 

A woman trying to bring her Kids up, especially on her own with only the help of ageing parents Thailand is  in a desperate plight surely that must be obvious..

 

Trying to "criminalise" them when things go badly  wrong in my book is "criminal".

 

Unless you have experienced what they have experienced and had to do what they have had to do in their sometimes very sad lives leave "judgment up to a better and more wise Authority.

 

Have you and others who love to "cast the first stone" ever made a mistake in your lives or done something illegal that you never got found out about?

 

From an old Native American proverb  " Unless you have walked many moons in their moccasins do not judge them"!

 

 

 

You are talking nonsense and trying to defend what is indefensible. Stop dragging up tired old cliches and proverbs that have no bearing to try and help your cause, it just makes you sound silly and ignorant.

 

Facts are these.

 

1. Mother went out working in the night time leaving four children unattended between the ages of 5-11 years old, or at the least, she left them with grandparents, who then they themselves, left them unattended by locking them in an apartment. That is or should be criminal behaviour or wilful neglect at least.

 

2. Tragedy did indeed strike, leaving one dead and all the others hospitalised, traumatized and in a critical condition due to no foresight on the part of the mother and grandparents. It is fortunate there were not more fatalities.

 

3. It is obvious regarding youngsters at that age cannot be responsible for their actions. They should NOT have been on their own with the eldest being just 11 years old. That being said, I NEVER allowed my children to be on their own at the age or older until they were 15 years old at least. Even when they complained they were old enough to look after themselves, I still paid for a babysitter/ minder when we were out in the evenings, which was a rarity.

 

4. She has constantly refused to obey court orders to hand over the children to the father who has been given custody. I do not know the circumstances as to why it is ongoing after four years, whether it has been too difficult to gain custody or whether he has not had the correct advice or been aggressive enough in gaining custody. That is an unknown at this point in time.

 

5. If she was concerned about the children's wellbeing, why did she not get daytime employment, so that she could be with her children in the evenings as obviously, it is too much for elderly grandparents to cope with? We see too much of this especially upcountry, where the kids are ditched with grandparents and the mothers beggar off to Bangkok, Phuket or Pattaya promising to send money home.

 

6. It is neglect and a foreseeable/preventable ' accident waiting to happen ' ................. That is what is called parenting. Keeping your kids safe from harm.

 

It is just as bad as Thai parents who allow seven and eight-year-old children out on the roads on motorbikes and expect them to know and understand what they are doing and are then surprised that they have an accident!.........  Then the first line of defence jumps in, as usual, blame the other party involved in the accident and not take responsibility for their actions.

 

Your comments about social security cushions have no bearing here. Thailand DOES HAVE systems and foundations in place for vulnerable children to be taken in and cared for the short and long term.

 

Also, social security in other countries does not budgets or allow for babysitters and carers to come and look after four children between 5-11 years old. That is parental responsibility.

 

 

 

 

[n210mp]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

You are talking nonsense and trying to defend what is indefensible. Stop dragging up tired old cliches and proverbs that have no bearing to try and help your cause, it just makes you sound silly and ignorant.

 

Facts are these.

 

1. Mother went out working in the night time leaving four children unattended between the ages of 5-11 years old, or at the least, she left them with grandparents, who then they themselves, left them unattended by locking them in an apartment. That is or should be criminal behaviour or wilful neglect at least.

 

2. Tragedy did indeed strike, leaving one dead and all the others hospitalised, traumatized and in a critical condition due to no foresight on the part of the mother and grandparents. It is fortunate there were not more fatalities.

 

3. It is obvious regarding youngsters at that age cannot be responsible for their actions. They should NOT have been on their own with the eldest being just 11 years old. That being said, I NEVER allowed my children to be on their own at the age or older until they were 15 years old at least. Even when they complained they were old enough to look after themselves, I still paid for a babysitter/ minder when we were out in the evenings, which was a rarity.

 

4. She has constantly refused to obey court orders to hand over the children to the father who has been given custody. I do not know the circumstances as to why it is ongoing after four years, whether it has been too difficult to gain custody or whether he has not had the correct advice or been aggressive enough in gaining custody. That is an unknown at this point in time.

 

5. If she was concerned about the children's wellbeing, why did she not get daytime employment, so that she could be with her children in the evenings as obviously, it is too much for elderly grandparents to cope with? We see too much of this especially upcountry, where the kids are ditched with grandparents and the mothers beggar off to Bangkok, Phuket or Pattaya promising to send money home.

 

6. It is neglect and a foreseeable/preventable ' accident waiting to happen ' ................. That is what is called parenting. Keeping your kids safe from harm.

 

It is just as bad as Thai parents who allow seven and eight-year-old children out on the roads on motorbikes and expect them to know and understand what they are doing and are then surprised that they have an accident!.........  Then the first line of defence jumps in, as usual, blame the other party involved in the accident and not take responsibility for their actions.

 

Your comments about social security cushions have no bearing here. Thailand DOES HAVE systems and foundations in place for vulnerable children to be taken in and cared for the short and long term.

 

Also, social security in other countries does not budgets or allow for babysitters and carers to come and look after four children between 5-11 years old. That is parental responsibility.

 

 

 

 

You have completely missed the point I was making . 

 

I will ignore your remarks about " me talking nonsense" as completely irrelevant to the issues we are discussing and really does  damage any   point  of view you may be trying to make, at least to an informed  and sensible  assembly.

When someone hurls insults it usually mean that they have little to say, add or argue and their rhetoric begins to sound like that or a flamer or a troll

 

Let me try again to explain my post.

 

I am not discussing who is "liable" for the "accident".

 

Think about that last paragraph!

 

Its up to the Authorities to establish criminal or negligent action and then further to either prosecute or not !

 

You make  what sounds to be a salient comment; "Thailand DOES HAVE systems and foundations in place for vulnerable children to be taken in and cared for the short and long term"

 

Please could you  substantiate or back your statement up by naming these  systems and foundations "

 

 In my opinion I see another scenario of a Woman working desperately  to keep her family together in very dire circumstance at odds with her estranged husband,  whose character you or any other of the people on here who are so quick to condemn do not  know or are aware of!

 

I  make another point that the Husband may actually not have wanted the kids but in getting a court order in his favour  was doing as the wife has been suggested on here, being  just malicious  towards her.

In any event  in spite of a court order the husband  did not follow through with actually getting them into his possession. Why didn't he? 

 

My comments that "shit" or accidents do happen is valid!

 

Nobody wanted this to happen, did they, then surely it is an unforeseen event Ie an "accident".

 

Criminal culpability  or as you put it "willful neglect " is not decided on a forum  but by a Learned person taking all the circumstances into consideration and weighing  culpability, whether criminal or otherwise.

He or she may feel that there has been enough suffering.

and that  further penalties or punishments surely cannot bring the child back or in fact rehabilitate the  "offenders"

 

It occurs to me that in these very sad circumstances there will be many people suffering from a sense of guilt that will not go away for a long time , if ever!

 

Shit happens!

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by n210mp